Brian Flores Suing Dolphins, Giants, NFL

[LookSharp]

I don't care either way. Should Flores have evidence then he'll prove it in court. There's an old saying among lawyers. When you have the facts, pound the facts. When you don't, pound the table. All I know is when you buck heads with your boss (which Flores did) invariably you will lose. Right now, Flores comes across as a disgruntled former employee. He's kryptonite for any prospective NFL employer. Call me a skeptic, but I don't buy the 'NFL is a good ole boys' club' some of you are peddling. Every owner wants to win regardless of color.

That said, consider what the hiring of Eric Bieniemy will do to the efficacy of Flores' lawsuit. It will submarine it. Bieniemy is a good fit in that Tua's skills are not unlike Mahomes. IMHO, he is the frontrunner for the Dolphins HC job.

 

[Midnighter]

How do you prove that a hiring process is racially motivated? In the social media world, it’s simply that a minority wasn’t hired. That isn’t enough in the legal world. Let’s see if there is an e-mail trail within any of these organizations showing racial bias in the evaluation of candidates.

Well, 70% of the players in the NFL are black. But, 97% of the head coaches are white. For perspective, imagine waking up one day and 80% of the NHL head coaches are black. This assumes most NFL HCs have some NFL/college football experience, and as of 2019 all but two did. Bias?

 

[Pennst8]

So when Brian fired Chan Galley and Steve Marshall that wasn’t racist

No

 

[Quint526]

How does Belichick know who the Giants hired before they announce it?

Good old boys network. Nice opportunity for plaintiff’s attorneys to allege collusion.

 

[LionJim]

Where I am right now. I'm not going to go out of my way to defend my arguments. Also, I'm coming into this thread cold; I wouldn't be surprised if someone has already said the same thing.

1. There is zero chance Belichick didn't honestly think he was texting Daboll.
2. Belichick had to know that Flores had not yet been interviewed when he sent the text. This reflects very poorly on Belichick. Whatever you may think of the Rooney Rule, it's there for a reason.
3. It wouldn't be surprising that Belichick got the "Daboll will coach the NYG" information via text. I'm not well versed enough on precedent to say anything about the likelihood that these texts will end up being shared with Flores and his lawyers, but I guess this could be a possibility.
4. It's very likely, very, very likely, that there is an email/text trail within NYG brass that they had decided to go with Daboll without having first interviewed Flores. If so, this stuff IS going to be made public if there's a trial.
5. There's going to be some sort of settlement. The NFL is NOT going to allow Belichick or the NYG brass to testify at a trial.

Edit: Important question: who owns the emails sent through the official NYG email system, the NFL or NYG? (To clarify, in my old job my university owned the emails I sent when I used their system.) I'm guessing NFL, just a gut feeling.

Beyond that, I got not much.

 

[PSUJam]

4. It's very likely, very, very likely, that there is an email/text trail within NYG brass that they had decided to go with Daboll without having interviewed Flores. If so, this stuff IS going to be made public.

Judging by how the NFL handled the WFT emails, I'm not so sure about that. The NFL is in the protect the NFL business.

 

[PSUJam]

Well, 70% of the players in the NFL are black. But, 97% of the head coaches are white. For perspective, imagine waking up one day and 80% of the NHL head coaches are black. This assumes most NFL HCs have some NFL/college football experience, and as of 2019 all but two did. Bias?

Who saw this coming?

 

[Ice Man]

CFB and the NFL are imploding. You would think after the Gruden texting fiasco that everything sent from a coach would be screened and at least given some thought.

Race has just about everything to do in the NFL, i've heard about 4 or 5 black coaches mentioned for HC jobs. Good coaches , just a shame some of them can't take their starting QB with them. Maybe BF would be better at Jacksonville or NO, NY is a mess, why would he even push the issue there.

 

[LionJim]

Judging by how the NFL handled the WFT emails, I'm not so sure about that. The NFL is in the protect the NFL business.

As far as I know, there has been no court ruling telling the NFL or WFT to release the emails that blew up Gruden. In a lawsuit, you're likely to get a court order releasing the emails. That's the difference I'm seeing here.

 

[PSUJam]

Paper shredderAs far as I know, there has been no court ruling telling the NFL or WFT to release the emails that blew up Gruden. In a lawsuit, you're likely to get a court order releasing the emails. That's the difference I'm seeing here.

 

[BobPSU92]

Well, 70% of the players in the NFL are black. But, 97% of the head coaches are white. For perspective, imagine waking up one day and 80% of the NHL head coaches are black. This assumes most NFL HCs have some NFL/college football experience, and as of 2019 all but two did. Bias?

The numbers spark questions but don’t prove anything on their own. It’s easy, even convenient, to claim racism. Let’s see proof.

It‘s harsh to claim racism in the absence of direct proof.

 

[PSUJam]

The numbers spark questions but don’t prove anything on their own. It’s easy, even convenient, to claim racism. Let’s see proof.

It‘s harsh to claim racism in the absence of direct proof.

What kind of proof would do you need? Just curious.

 

[Quint526]

Who saw this coming?

Wow. Jimmy the Creep was an a$$hole who said other deplorable things. I don’t buy his theory wholly, because the owners want to win and make more money above all else. I think that a substantial part of the problem is likely the silent racism of lowered expectation, which is nearly as disgusting.

 

[LionJim]

Where I am right now. I'm not going to go out of my way to defend my arguments. Also, I'm coming into this thread cold; I wouldn't be surprised if someone has already said the same thing.

1. There is zero chance Belichick didn't honestly think he was texting Daboll.
2. Belichick had to know that Flores had not yet been interviewed when he sent the text. This reflects very poorly on Belichick. Whatever you may think of the Rooney Rule, it's there for a reason.
3. It wouldn't be surprising that Belichick got the "Daboll will coach the NYG" information via text. I'm not well versed enough on precedent to say anything about the likelihood that these texts will end up being shared with Flores and his lawyers, but I guess this could be a possibility.
4. It's very likely, very, very likely, that there is an email/text trail within NYG brass that they had decided to go with Daboll without having first interviewed Flores. If so, this stuff IS going to be made public if there's a trial.
5. There's going to be some sort of settlement. The NFL is NOT going to allow Belichick or the NYG brass to testify at a trial.

Edit: Important question: who owns the emails sent through the official NYG email system, the NFL or NYG? (To clarify, in my old job my university owned the emails I sent when I used their system.) I'm guessing NFL, just a gut feeling.

Beyond that, I got not much.

Regarding #3, we have to consider the possibility that Belichick was not told point blank that Daboll was getting the job. Belichick may have been responding to something along these lines: “Bill, you can’t believe how well Daboll interviewed. He crushed every question and we’re thinking right now that he has to be the #1 choice. Flores has yet to be interviewed but, boy, Daboll hit it out of the freaking park, he hit that ball a mile.”

So let me edit my #4. If NYG did decide that Daboll would be the coach before Flores had been interviewed, there is likely an email/text trail on this.

 

[Quint526]

What kind of proof would do you need? Just curious.

Bob has a fair point, throwing out such numbers implies that correlation is proof. It also implies fairly equal desire to be a coach, equal historical mentoring, equal pipeline of talent…etc.

The numbers are bad and strongly imply a problem. I just do not care for blanket statistics, without qualification, as proof of anything.

 

[Nohow]

Bob has a fair point, throwing out such numbers implies that correlation is proof. It also implies fairly equal desire to be a coach, equal historical mentoring, equal pipeline of talent…etc.

The numbers are bad and strongly imply a problem. I just do not care for blanket statistics, without qualification, as proof of anything.

How do prove that stuff in your first sentence? Impossible. What else would you accept as proof? A bunch of owners confessing or admitting their bias to witnesses? Yeah, that’ll happen.

 

[cac@PSU]

Flores needs to look for a college job, there maybe more money in it, just ask Franklin

 

[razpsu]

Doesn't Belicheck have some bad blood with the Giants org or was that just with Parcells?

Yes. That was what I was saying and why not crush your division rival while you are at it. Maybe buffalo as well since the new coach came from there. Belicheck knows what he is doing .

 

[LionJim]

Yes. That was what I was saying and why not crush your division rival while you are at it. Maybe buffalo as well since the new coach came from there. Belicheck knows what he is doing .

If by “Belichick knows what he is doing” you mean that Belichick knowingly texted Flores while pretending that he was texting Daboll, I don’t buy it. This would amount to Belichick knowingly being cruel to Flores, a friend, and lying to his face.

 

[PSUJam]

Bob has a fair point, throwing out such numbers implies that correlation is proof. It also implies fairly equal desire to be a coach, equal historical mentoring, equal pipeline of talent…etc.

The numbers are bad and strongly imply a problem. I just do not care for blanket statistics, without qualification, as proof of anything.

I believe the numbers are the proof and the NFL went as far as passing rules to try to help correct it, which basically acknowledged guilt, but that's just me and I'm not going to argue any more about it.

 

[Quint526]

If by “Belichick knows what he is doing” you mean that Belichick knowingly texted Flores while pretending that he was texting Daboll, I don’t buy it. This would amount to Belichick knowingly being cruel to Flores, a friend.

They are not friends anymore. LOL.

Unless Flores is that good that he can help BB vanquish the Bills, that number may have deleted from Bill’s phone.

 

[rudedude]

And another one joins the fray, but why wait until now?

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...m-to-tank-during-his-time-with-cleveland/amp/

 

[Quint526]

I believe the numbers are the proof and the NFL went as far as passing rules to try to help correct it, which basically acknowledged guilt, but that's just me and I'm not going to argue any more about it.

Sorry counselor, not proof. However, I respect your passion and decency.

 

[PSUJam]

Sorry counselor, not proof. However, I respect your passion and decency.

 

[Quint526]

Your meaning is unclear.

 

[PSUJam]

Your meaning is unclear.

"but that's just me and I'm not going to argue any more about it."

 

[Midnighter]

Your meaning is unclear.

Sine 1989 when Art Shell became the first black HC in the NFL there have been fewer than 24 black head coaches hired. The Rooney Rule went into effect in 2003. When it went into effect, there were three black head coaches. Right now there is one.

 

[Quint526]

Sine 1989 when Art Shell became the first black HC in the NFL there have been fewer than 24 black head coaches hired. The Rooney Rule went into effect in 2003. When it went into effect, there were three black head coaches. Right now there is one.

I don’t disagree that there is a problem. This is a better stat. It shows lack of progress at least at the head coaching level.

I am not an expert on the Rooney Rule. If the requirement is basically that a minority simply must be included in the interview process, it’s impotent.

The emphasis should be nurturing talent and increasing the pool of qualified minority candidates. I am not saying that there is not a current qualified pool. However, increasing the pool and influence of minority candidates is part of the solution and should be a focus.

 

[razpsu]

So the nfl said Flores statement is unfounded and Denver broncos came out and said they interviewed him for 3 hours after he said they didn’t? Uhoh.

 

[Nohow]

So the nfl said Flores statement is unfounded and Denver broncos came out and said they interviewed him for 3 hours after he said they didn’t? Uhoh.

You don’t get it. The problem with your argument is that they gave the job to somebody else before his interview, as proved by the Belichek email. Uhoh indeed.

 

[ODShowtime]

So the browns are tanking cheaters?

Shocker.

 

[MacNit]

I don’t disagree that there is a problem. This is a better stat. It shows lack of progress at least at the head coaching level.

I am not an expert on the Rooney Rule. If the requirement is basically that a minority simply must be included in the interview process, it’s impotent.

The emphasis should be nurturing talent and increasing the pool of qualified minority candidates. I am not saying that there is not a current qualified pool. However, increasing the pool and influence of minority candidates is part of the solution and should be a focus.

The Rooney rule is demeaning to the interviewed party. It implies certain people are to be interviewed as a “token” rather than being qualified - the ultimate form of “soft racism.” Very similar to nominating someone for high office purely by skin color - demeaning.

BTW, is there a certain ancestoral percentage that qualifies you under the Rooney rule? Would Franklin qualify? Stupid. Un-American. Racist.

 

[PSUJam]

So the browns are tanking cheaters?

Shocker.

I said in an earlier post there's two separate issues brought up in the lawsuit. What Hue Jackson is saying borders on point shaving Federal stuff. It's no wonder Todd Haley was asking WTF on Hard Knocks.

 

[PSUJam]

The Rooney rule is demeaning to the interviewed party.

Do you know this from experience?

 

[NJPSU]

Sham interviews are extremely demeaning

Giants may not lose money here but forfeiting a draft pick seems plausible

That happens all the time in corporate America.

My company has a policy that they must post and interview for their job openings but it’s very common that an internal candidate is immediately identified as the replacement. They then interview a handful of people knowing full well Candidate X is getting the job. In fact I had a buddy of mine at the company tell me he could tell his interviewer wasn’t even paying attention to his responses.

 

[NJPSU]

CFB and the NFL are imploding. You would think after the Gruden texting fiasco that everything sent from a coach would be screened and at least given some thought.

Race has just about everything to do in the NFL, i've heard about 4 or 5 black coaches mentioned for HC jobs. Good coaches , just a shame some of them can't take their starting QB with them. Maybe BF would be better at Jacksonville or NO, NY is a mess, why would he even push the issue there.

The NFL is in the midst of its greatest playoff season ever. The games have never been better. They have a boatload of young QB talent. The NFL will be fine.

 

[razpsu]

You don’t get it. The problem with your argument is that they gave the job to somebody else before his interview, as proved by the Belichek email. Uhoh indeed.

I made a statement that I just heard on tv and I don’t get it? Ok, I guess the nfl and broncos don’t get it either. How many teams does he need to interview with lol.

 

[BobPSU92]

What kind of proof would do you need? Just curious.

I posted earlier in the thread, let’s see if there are e-mail communications within these organizations indicating racial bias in the hiring processes. Actual proof. I am unwilling to assert a lack of integrity in these hiring processes, and further racism, without actual proof.

People are unhappy that there aren’t more black head coaches. That doesn‘t mean all these teams are racist.

 

[PSUJam]

That doesn‘t mean all these teams are racist.

I hope you're right with this part, but the top is about to be blown off this soon.

 

[Nohow]

I posted earlier in the thread, let’s see if there are e-mail communications within these organizations indicating racial bias in the hiring processes. Actual proof. I am unwilling to assert a lack of integrity in these hiring processes, and further racism, without actual proof.

People are unhappy that there aren’t more black head coaches. That doesn‘t mean all these teams are racist.

So the only proof would be owners in KKK sheets or emails using the n word.