Bring back Stans
- Thread starter dorndawg
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A worldly basketball fan like you should know more than this.
National writers ripped on how Augustus was out of control at times. How Ravern was out of control at times. We were a laughing stock during Sidney's year long ban and constantly in the news because of him and his lawyer playing chicken with an organization that doesnt give a ****. The boxing match on national TV wasnt just 'an article or two on a slow news day'. It was all over national news and sports outlets.
Oh- lets not forget multiple national writers commenting on Bost's absurdly stupid draft declaration and excuse after.
You are correct that they couldnt give a rats *** about MSU basketball, but we gave em a lot more than the little you mention.
Drug abuse, fights, players running the program, players bashing coaches to the media, and on social media, rumored dirty recruiting. All that's missing from the list is racial episodes and you have the full list of what we make fun of OM for on a daily basis.
If we have a "successful" coach who lasts for a while, it will likely be a string of results similar to Andy Kennedy. Its extremely unlikely that we'll be able to match Stansbury's results no matter who does the hiring.
At some point we'll be able to look back and actually appreciate and realize what he accomplished. Even that last five or six years will go down as one top four periods of that duration in MSU basketball history, with one of the others also being his.
At some point we'll be able to look back and actually appreciate and realize what he accomplished. Even that last five or six years will go down as one top four periods of that duration in MSU basketball history, with one of the others also being his.
There may have been some stories about Augustus making comments at a press conference and on twitter, and Stansbury suspended him and he actually turned it around and played very hard for three very solid and quiet years. I hate that we have to run this guy down in order to rationalize in hindsight firing Stansbury.
If there was ever a story about Ravern, it was just that Stansbury had suspended him for that game for violation of team rules. Again, Ravern is a popular target for the "fire Stansbury" people who are trying to justify it in hind sight, but this is not fair to him. The worst you can say about the guy was that he was a mediocre defender. But he was a heck of a player for us and some people constantly dog him.
What about Charles Rhodes? Stans had to suspend him at times and he made similar comments too. What about Jamont? A lot of our fans were really hard on him. Do we not want players like that on our team anymore? Heck, what about Dontae Jones and Marcus Bullard? What is the difference in Jones and Ravern?
If there was ever a story about Ravern, it was just that Stansbury had suspended him for that game for violation of team rules. Again, Ravern is a popular target for the "fire Stansbury" people who are trying to justify it in hind sight, but this is not fair to him. The worst you can say about the guy was that he was a mediocre defender. But he was a heck of a player for us and some people constantly dog him.
What about Charles Rhodes? Stans had to suspend him at times and he made similar comments too. What about Jamont? A lot of our fans were really hard on him. Do we not want players like that on our team anymore? Heck, what about Dontae Jones and Marcus Bullard? What is the difference in Jones and Ravern?
Stansbury is our Jeff Bauer. I said this three years ago. He fielded teams which were consistently good, not great, and we decided we wanted more, and now we are Southern Miss football 2012-2013.
Think about this
Rick Ray was the best we could do after winning several secw championships and at least being in the conversation for NCAA EVERY year. We also EVERY year were in the running for a big time recruit. Yes we all thought that would be good enough to get some attention for a decent coach. But like usm I think our small amount of success made us think we were more than we were. Stansbury worked his *** off to make us what we were. Yes I think, consistently, that may be close to our peak. I never understood the thought process that msu should be a national top 15 every yr. Call me a pessimist if you wish, but ill take that in a heartbeat to what we have now. At least msu was on the map then. Just a dot but there. We are not even an afterthought to our own fan base. The baseball team outdraws the basketball team now. Is that what we wanted? Will it be better with a new coach? Just exactly what coach would want our current situation over what we had a couple of yrs ago? I like RR coaching style but you have to get players. He can't. It's obvious already.
Rick Ray was the best we could do after winning several secw championships and at least being in the conversation for NCAA EVERY year. We also EVERY year were in the running for a big time recruit. Yes we all thought that would be good enough to get some attention for a decent coach. But like usm I think our small amount of success made us think we were more than we were. Stansbury worked his *** off to make us what we were. Yes I think, consistently, that may be close to our peak. I never understood the thought process that msu should be a national top 15 every yr. Call me a pessimist if you wish, but ill take that in a heartbeat to what we have now. At least msu was on the map then. Just a dot but there. We are not even an afterthought to our own fan base. The baseball team outdraws the basketball team now. Is that what we wanted? Will it be better with a new coach? Just exactly what coach would want our current situation over what we had a couple of yrs ago? I like RR coaching style but you have to get players. He can't. It's obvious already.
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Surely you gest! He left because he was fired! When we get a new basketball coach, I hope we hire a firm to assist in the search. Two strikes against Greg, he listened to the lynch mob that called for Stansbury's head, and then hired a $4,000,000 coach with no head coaching experience or real credentials as an assistant, and in the process divided the fan base! Brilliant athletic administration.
This will go down as the biggest blunder in MSU history.
This particular quote could not be any more true
We made a decision based on what the majority was clamoring for, and Scott has quickly found out over the last two years what the majority was made up of. A group of people that will find time to go to a game when we're good, but they won't waste their time when we're not.
Then, the real kick in the nuts is that people want to blame the Stansbury supporters for the current lack of support. I obviously can't speak for all of the so called "supporters" here, but I can speak for myself when I say that my family has bought 4 season tickets for years, we've continued to do so with Ray, and we'll continue to do so after Ray. We go to the games that we can and we do our best to put tickets in the hands of other people when we can't. Believe when I say that this year hasn't been easy for that.
Look, I've gone on record multiple times in saying that while I was apparently one of the few that saw this utter trainwreck coming from a mile away, I was not against a dismissal of Stansbury. That said, it pains me to no end when when we have unappreciative fans that "strive to be better", yet when the chips are down, those same fans represent the bulk of the group that isn't showing up for games today. I couldn't have said it any better in that we all want to be recognized on a national level, yet our basketball team is clearly an afterthought to the majority of our own fanbase.
We made a decision based on what the majority was clamoring for, and Scott has quickly found out over the last two years what the majority was made up of. A group of people that will find time to go to a game when we're good, but they won't waste their time when we're not.
Then, the real kick in the nuts is that people want to blame the Stansbury supporters for the current lack of support. I obviously can't speak for all of the so called "supporters" here, but I can speak for myself when I say that my family has bought 4 season tickets for years, we've continued to do so with Ray, and we'll continue to do so after Ray. We go to the games that we can and we do our best to put tickets in the hands of other people when we can't. Believe when I say that this year hasn't been easy for that.
Look, I've gone on record multiple times in saying that while I was apparently one of the few that saw this utter trainwreck coming from a mile away, I was not against a dismissal of Stansbury. That said, it pains me to no end when when we have unappreciative fans that "strive to be better", yet when the chips are down, those same fans represent the bulk of the group that isn't showing up for games today. I couldn't have said it any better in that we all want to be recognized on a national level, yet our basketball team is clearly an afterthought to the majority of our own fanbase.
I don't like the running down of individual players, except for Sid because he deserved it, but you cannot look just at one or two people on the team in isolation. Overall, the program was out of control. It was constant drama and silliness coming from multiple areas and Sid ended up being the last straw. It wasn't always like this with his teams. It went downhill fast in the last few years unfortunately.
Respond whether or not you agree with this statement about Rick's last few years as a coach at MSU. Be honest.
"Rick Stansbury kept his job despite all of the off the court issues by winning just enough games to keep fans happy."
Like I said in my earlier post, you can keep your job much longer by winning with a lot of off the court issues than you can if you are losing with what we have now. When Stans stopped going to tournaments consistently it put a massive spotlight on the other issues. It's just like Marshall Henderson last year with OM. There is no way Kennedy would have kept his job if they had been losing, didn't get to the tournament, AND slim shady was acting the way he was.
Respond whether or not you agree with this statement about Rick's last few years as a coach at MSU. Be honest.
"Rick Stansbury kept his job despite all of the off the court issues by winning just enough games to keep fans happy."
Like I said in my earlier post, you can keep your job much longer by winning with a lot of off the court issues than you can if you are losing with what we have now. When Stans stopped going to tournaments consistently it put a massive spotlight on the other issues. It's just like Marshall Henderson last year with OM. There is no way Kennedy would have kept his job if they had been losing, didn't get to the tournament, AND slim shady was acting the way he was.
A year earlier to give a new coach a chance with some talent, or a year later to give a new coach whatever talent Stansbury paired with Ware, Sword, and FTF.**
The reality is we were likely to implode no matter when we transitioned from Stansbury. Basketball has a lot of transfers as it is and unfortunately we had a lot of players for whom basketball wasn't high on their priority list, so any change of coach combined with enforcing disciplinary rules was likely to result in a thin team. If we had waited a year, maybe Ware, Sword, and/or FTF would have followed in the footsteps of the older players and the next coach would have had to kick one or more of them off. The way to smoothly transition a basketball team is to have a successful coach go out on his own terms. Not many programs get to have that.
Lets not forget the infamous DJ Gardner antics on Twitter that got NATIONAL attention.
google 'DJ Gardner basketball' and in the first handful of results are STILL articles from national sites about his dismissal.
google 'DJ Gardner basketball' and in the first handful of results are STILL articles from national sites about his dismissal.
As I stated in another post, Stansbury's last five or six years would rank as the fourth best five or six year period in the program's entire history, with three NIT's and two NCAA's in that time frame. So I'm not sure what you mean by "stopped going to tournaments."
Kennedy was on the hot seat because he'd been there a long time and hadn't accomplished much. He signed Marshall Henderson in order to get some talent on the team, and it worked. He kept his job and they made the tournament for the first time. If Kennedy had not have brought in Henderson, he would not be the coach right now.
I agree that the administration fired Stansbury over the issues you raised. And I agree that it gave them the cover they needed. They didn't like him. Most fans who wanted Stansbury gone, however, wanted him gone because they expected him to go farther in the tournaments. They expected us to be in the NCAA's more often.
The backwards looking fury over some of this stuff from fans is, in my opinion, an attempt to rationalize, perhaps subconsiously, what has since happened since. 40% of all college basketball players transfer. Lots of teams have trouble with social media. Players get in trouble and are suspended. This happens everywhere and its hyperbole to suggest that our program was "imploding" or a "dumpster fire." In many ways, Stansbury disciplined his players more for these things than other coaches do. Players were booted from the team and suspended for key games.
But we'd somehow gotten our internal fan view of the program into a completely unrealistic situation. Our fan base believed that our natural place in the college basketball world was actually higher than it was when it was actually lower. Whereas most successful coaches are defended by the fan base, ours perceived him worse than the rest of the world did.
Taking the risk on Sidney probably cost him his job. That was the one situation where Stansbury definitely did not deal with the situation appropriately. And like I said, it gave the administration cover to fire him. But that was a calculated risk that failed, just like Dontae Jones was a calculated risk that worked. But even when everything went wrong, we were still a decent team.
Kennedy was on the hot seat because he'd been there a long time and hadn't accomplished much. He signed Marshall Henderson in order to get some talent on the team, and it worked. He kept his job and they made the tournament for the first time. If Kennedy had not have brought in Henderson, he would not be the coach right now.
I agree that the administration fired Stansbury over the issues you raised. And I agree that it gave them the cover they needed. They didn't like him. Most fans who wanted Stansbury gone, however, wanted him gone because they expected him to go farther in the tournaments. They expected us to be in the NCAA's more often.
The backwards looking fury over some of this stuff from fans is, in my opinion, an attempt to rationalize, perhaps subconsiously, what has since happened since. 40% of all college basketball players transfer. Lots of teams have trouble with social media. Players get in trouble and are suspended. This happens everywhere and its hyperbole to suggest that our program was "imploding" or a "dumpster fire." In many ways, Stansbury disciplined his players more for these things than other coaches do. Players were booted from the team and suspended for key games.
But we'd somehow gotten our internal fan view of the program into a completely unrealistic situation. Our fan base believed that our natural place in the college basketball world was actually higher than it was when it was actually lower. Whereas most successful coaches are defended by the fan base, ours perceived him worse than the rest of the world did.
Taking the risk on Sidney probably cost him his job. That was the one situation where Stansbury definitely did not deal with the situation appropriately. And like I said, it gave the administration cover to fire him. But that was a calculated risk that failed, just like Dontae Jones was a calculated risk that worked. But even when everything went wrong, we were still a decent team.
I actually suggested at the time that Stansbury announce his retirement after signing day, coach another year, and allow the search to go longer. That way we could make sure we had a team to hand off to his successor. That may not have been possible depending on the relationships though.
But when you fire a coach, you have to expect a mass exodus. If the team has been bad, no biggie. but if the team has been good, it can be a huge problem. The key is that the incoming coach come in immediately and recruit his butt off.
But when you fire a coach, you have to expect a mass exodus. If the team has been bad, no biggie. but if the team has been good, it can be a huge problem. The key is that the incoming coach come in immediately and recruit his butt off.
I will argue after 2006, 2007, or 2008, the years he let Jamont do whatever he wanted with no repercussions.
We lost several really good players(Hansbrough and the Delks) because the way Stans let Jamont run the team and the games.
He never should have been playing point guard, but that is what J-Money wanted, so that's what he did.
If not then, then immediately after the 2010 Hawaii incident or following the 2011 season.
I know it is splitting hairs, but I did say the last few years. NIT 2nd round, no tournament at all, NIT 1st round. The only time in his career that we had 3 years like that...wait for it...his first three years. NIT 1st round, no tournament at all, NIT Quarter Finals. Add that to the off the court issues rising substantially in those same final three years and you get what happened to Rick.
His last 5 or 6 years would rank highly but the trend was down and the off-court issue trend was up. It is that simple.
I am not a person to lump into a "backwards looking fury" group. I was furious as it was happening. I had never heard anyone talk about MSU basketball (live out of state) until we stayed in the press those last two years. I was constantly reminded of what in the heck was going on. I realize I am a sample of one but it was crazy how much it came up all of the sudden. The national attention that was negative was real. Don't fool yourself into believing it wasn't.
I do agree that our fans began to have expectations of going to the tournament. Stansbury set those expectations and I am glad that he did. It was a fun ride. We also had expectations to get a lot out of our high level recruits.
His last 5 or 6 years would rank highly but the trend was down and the off-court issue trend was up. It is that simple.
I am not a person to lump into a "backwards looking fury" group. I was furious as it was happening. I had never heard anyone talk about MSU basketball (live out of state) until we stayed in the press those last two years. I was constantly reminded of what in the heck was going on. I realize I am a sample of one but it was crazy how much it came up all of the sudden. The national attention that was negative was real. Don't fool yourself into believing it wasn't.
I do agree that our fans began to have expectations of going to the tournament. Stansbury set those expectations and I am glad that he did. It was a fun ride. We also had expectations to get a lot out of our high level recruits.
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