Caleb least efficient scorer taking 2nd most FGA/Game

[RUsojo]

To me this is the most glossed over talking point of the team this season.

Caleb is having another really bad year offensively. He is our least effective scorer, with a primary rotation worst .420 efg% this season while taking the second most shot attempts a game next to Cliff.

I think Pike can improve our results by drawing up more to get Cam, Cliff and Paul FGA. Specifically using more PNR.

I love that Caleb is trying to rally the troops with his recent comment of “not letting this team fall down and fold” but for that to happen he needs to figure out his offensive woes imo. Contrary to popular opinion I don’t believe his defense is making up for it.

 

[RU677381]

How many times does he stop the offense by going one on one trying to post up and has the ball stripped or misses the shot?

 

[biazza38]

I’ve said this a million times this year.
I can’t wait until we don’t have to rely on our defense to hold opponents under 65 in order to win. Watching our offense is like pulling teeth.
I cut the team some slack because we lost Geo and Harper. You don’t replace guys like that over night. But your also don’t replace them by someone trying to be Kobe

 

[RutgersClassof2004]

To me this is the most glossed over talking point of the team this season.

Caleb is having another really bad year offensively. He is our least effective scorer, with a primary rotation worst .420 efg% this season while taking the second most shot attempts a game next to Cliff.

I think Pike can improve our results by drawing up more to get Cam, Cliff and Paul FGA. Specifically using more PNR.

I love that Caleb is trying to rally the troops with his recent comment of “not letting this team fall down and fold” but for that to happen he needs to figure out his offensive woes imo. Contrary to popular opinion I don’t believe his defense is making up for it.

100% brother. Spot on take.

 

[RutgersClassof2004]

I’ve said this a million times this year.
I can’t wait until we don’t have to rely on our defense to hold opponents under 65 in order to win. Watching our offense is like pulling teeth.
I cut the team some slack because we lost Geo and Harper. You don’t replace guys like that over night. But your also don’t replace them by someone trying to be Kobe

Too many one on one step back fades from low percentage two-point range with no RU players near basket.

 

[RU-ROCS]

Agreed . Caleb is a big problem with the offense especially when he excessively dribbles stalling RU's offensive flow or hoists up three pointers (at 20% FG). When he focusses on his stellar defense and takes what his high-energy effort gives him at and around the rim and in the lane, RU is at it's best. Pike seems to have little control over Caleb's ill-advised shots, as there are no consequences. Perhaps that is because he is so crucial on defense that you just can't take him out.

 

[RutgersClassof2004]

He also goes one on one often enough where Cam, Palm, or Hyatt wide open.

 

[BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine]

Luv Caleb but he is trying to do too much offensively. Agree 100% he's at his best when he gets the ball in the lane or near the rim without trying to create his own shots.

 

[kcg88]

Caleb should not be taking any jump shots with more than 5 seconds on the shot clock

 

[S_Janowski]

At times (minimal) over the years Caleb has shown the ability carry the team offensively.

Unfortunately that’s just not the case. He’s definitely taking way too many shots.

I think a couple big limitations are

1) The energy he exerts of defense and
2) His back injuries which has severely limited his spring and form. His shot looks awful.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

This would make sense if we had normal or traditional basketball players at all 5 positions. I don't look at efg %, when Mulcahy turns down more shot attempts than he should. I'm sure PM has a better efg%, but it's a phantom stat since he takes only spot up 3s or an occasional floater and layup.

If this was last year and he's the 5th option on offense behind RHJ, Geo, Cliff and Paul and was taking the 2nd most shots, then this would be a real discussion point.

But if Cam only takes wide open threes or turn around fade away 2s and an occasional layup, who else is supposed to take the shots, up against the end of the shot clock?? It's certainly not Mulcahy and Hyatt is a catch and shoot option.

The efg is not relevant. I can count a handful of "bad shots" Caleb has taken this year.

 

[RUJMM78]

Caleb is a very valuable player trying to be the go to scorer without the skillset .Its really a team problem without adequate replacements for Baker and Harper.The roster is composed mostly of complementary type players who perform better when the focus isn't on them.The balance between strong defense and mediocre offense leaves little margin for error,The only corrective action is better recruiting which in many cases is dependent on how the current team performs.

 

[FAT MOON]

To me this is the most glossed over talking point of the team this season.

Caleb is having another really bad year offensively. He is our least effective scorer, with a primary rotation worst .420 efg% this season while taking the second most shot attempts a game next to Cliff.

I think Pike can improve our results by drawing up more to get Cam, Cliff and Paul FGA. Specifically using more PNR.

I love that Caleb is trying to rally the troops with his recent comment of “not letting this team fall down and fold” but for that to happen he needs to figure out his offensive woes imo. Contrary to popular opinion I don’t believe his defense is making up for it.

To me it's more who is taking his minutes? Whoever comes in offensively will be maaaaaaaaaybe marginally better offensively but the defense will drop off a cliff. So it's a big net negative for the team.

And I think Hawk is correct. Paul refuses to shoot open looks. Cam is ice cold and you can see he's not a confident shooter right now. Plus as we've seen quicker guards can shut him down. Cliff doesn't have enough moves to just dump it down to him and let him go to work (and you're seeing more and more doubles in the paint because teams aren't afraid of our shooters). Hyatt has been very good offensively lately but he doesn't have the game to be the focal point of an offense.

Caleb is going to have to shoot. He's limited offensively and definitely tends to over dribble the ball, but overall he's by far the best option we've got at his position.

Personally I don't agree with the "drawing up more" stuff that the board loves to talk about. This isn't football. Our offensive concepts are fine and we get a ton of assists on made baskets so it's not like we are going iso ball. At some point guys just have to hit open shots.

 

[bac2therac]

When the wheel is spinning in sync, Pike is the greatest coach and he knows what he is doing with his recruiting.

When its not, you scratch your head and wonder how does he allow what we see on the court and all the 4-5 recruiting misses are brought to the fore.

very fine line and both statements are true.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

We know where the puck was, where it is now, and have a good idea of where it is about to go in regards to recruiting.

Anyone who is a senior now came to a program that was just getting on the map. He now is recruiting to a program on the map.

 

[biazza38]

When the wheel is spinning in sync, Pike is the greatest coach and he knows what he is doing with his recruiting.

When its not, you scratch your head and wonder how does he allow what we see on the court and all the 4-5 recruiting misses are brought to the fore.

very fine line and both statements are true.

Agree with everything here
This season was initially looked at as a rebuilding year, but when healthy, they’re clearly better than a “rebuilding” type team

The issue is, they HAVE to win with defense and depth is a problem. Caleb and Paul went down early and boom we lost to Temple

Mag goes down, and boom we hit a tailspin. The other issue with the Mag injury is you don’t want to be playing around with your line up late in the season when other teams are hitting their stride. That’s a huge problem. That’s why Nebby crushed us

 

[S_Janowski]

There is truth to what Sojo, Hawk and BAC are saying. It’s not black or white.

Caleb is clearly taking too many shots and isn’t efficient. On the other hand, we don’t have the quality of depth to simply reallocate a majority of his shots to others.

Also Caleb is a key piece to our defensive and he has to be in the court for a majority of the game. He can’t pass up every single open shot he has.

I would like to see him stop taking 3 pointers and drive to the basket/initiate contact. That would fix a lot of the issue.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

When the wheel is spinning in sync, Pike is the greatest coach and he knows what he is doing with his recruiting.

When its not, you scratch your head and wonder how does he allow what we see on the court and all the 4-5 recruiting misses are brought to the fore.

very fine line and both statements are true.

While both statements are 100% correct, there is a blend of what got RU here and sustainable winning.

RU is in a gray area where we have 2 players who picked or came to RU when RU wasn't relevant in 2018 (Caleb) and 2019 (Mulcahy) & neither were recruited or asked to be front line players.

They worked their way up the totem pole and are now "front line players", because they have tons of experience and grit. But they were not asked to be #1 or #2 options early in their careers....now both are.

We developed these players because it was a rebuild and others were ahead of them on "who should shoot when it's crunch time".....

So while we complain about the "lack of recruiting in the last 3 years, it's kinda not fair because the portal has imported 4 starting caliber players in the last 4 years....Yeboah in 19-20, Young, 19-20, Hyatt in 21 and Cam in 22.

It is easy to expect the portal kids like Hyatt and Cam to jump to the front of the line and they kinda have. Both lead in 3 pointers attempted.

BUT, we also are attempting to replicate what we did with Caleb and Paul during this rebuild, by developing organically....and we have done so with Cliff (not probably the best example as a Top 50 kid), and Mag, who fits the grinder or kid we are probably not going to recruit as many of, in the future.

So while we lament the Mag injury and what efg% is or isn't. The roster is changing in real time....and sometimes it gets a little hectic to sort out.

 

[rubigtimenow]

The efg is not relevant. I can count a handful of "bad shots" Caleb has taken this year.

I can count a handful of bad shots Caleb has taken in each of the Illinois and Indiana games where he led our team in attempts.
And he’s been my favorite RU player for the previous 3 years (not this year because him hoisting too many shots is killing me).

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

The other obvious point is that while Caleb might not be 100%, might not be shooting as well as we can see, RU is definitely or 100% not a NCAA team without him starting, playing and defending with his 9 to 10PPG.

So while another more effective shooter (let's say a Seth Lundy type at PSU), would shoot better from 2 and 3, Lundy doesn't do the other things that impact winning games. Sometimes there are obvious "winning basketball players" and Caleb clearly is a winning basketball player to how RU plays and wins.

 

[needmorecowbell]

To me this is the most glossed over talking point of the team this season.

Caleb is having another really bad year offensively. He is our least effective scorer, with a primary rotation worst .420 efg% this season while taking the second most shot attempts a game next to Cliff.

I think Pike can improve our results by drawing up more to get Cam, Cliff and Paul FGA. Specifically using more PNR.

I love that Caleb is trying to rally the troops with his recent comment of “not letting this team fall down and fold” but for that to happen he needs to figure out his offensive woes imo. Contrary to popular opinion I don’t believe his defense is making up for it.

The problem is that Cam and Paul have been reluctant to shoot. Caleb is the most capable to get his own shot off and I suspect that a good amount of his shots are late in the shot clock when he needs to shoot a more difficult shot. The offense needs to get back to moving the ball and getting good looks. There is no doubt that the ball sticks with Caleb and Hyatt. They need to keep moving it. Plus, a couple of guys don’t appear confident, and with Mag gone, the team needs someone to step up and be a shooter. That probably needs to come from Cam, Paul and Derek. Teams are going to continue to double Cliff if no one is making shots.

All that being said, the team scored 72 against Nebraska. That should have been plenty to win. The real disappointment was the defense. Our best defenders did not play well, especially Miller late on Tominaga. He fell asleep on one play and cut under the screen on the other for back to back 3s. That was back breaking.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I can count a handful of bad shots Caleb has taken in each of the Illinois and Indiana games where he led our team in attempts.
And he’s been my favorite RU player for the previous 3 years (not this year because him hoisting too many shots is killing me).

Not to sidetrack this from other threads, but in those 2 games, Mulcahy has a total of 13 shot attempts vs Illinois and Indiana. It supports my watching the games that Paul turns down more shots than he should and that would impact how many Caleb can or "shouldn't take"......i will state again....if Cam is blanketed and Cliff is your post option, you have Hyatt, Paul and Caleb....Paul doesn't want to shoot....where do you think the remaining shots should go??

If we use Nebraska as the barometer, Hyatt had 18 shots and turned down at least 5 to 6 others. The ball finds you, Mulcahy isn't trying to score, someone else has to help out.

 

[rubigtimenow]

Recent post above talked about Caleb being able to get his own shot…. It’s because every team is leaving him open and is thrilled with him shooting!
For sure Paul has to shoot more. Cam too. It’s on everybody and Pike. Whatever you gotta do so that Caleb shoots less and Paul and Cam shooting it more.
Make it happen Pike!

 

[goru7]

To me this is the most glossed over talking point of the team this season.

Caleb is having another really bad year offensively. He is our least effective scorer, with a primary rotation worst .420 efg% this season while taking the second most shot attempts a game next to Cliff.

I think Pike can improve our results by drawing up more to get Cam, Cliff and Paul FGA. Specifically using more PNR.

I love that Caleb is trying to rally the troops with his recent comment of “not letting this team fall down and fold” but for that to happen he needs to figure out his offensive woes imo. Contrary to popular opinion I don’t believe his defense is making up for it.

Mr. Absent comes back when we are on a losing streak. How appropriate.
Part of your post , the part about Caleb trying to do too much , going one on one and hoisting early 3 ‘s are accurate and should be eliminated from his game.
But we are lacking offense and unlike you , I think we need more Caleb , posting up , getting in the lane and hitting his 12-14 foot shot , driving to the basket , and hitting the occasional 3.
The start of the comeback against MSU started when he drove on Hoggard and got the and 1 ( more of that ) and then hit the crucial 3 on Paul’s kick out to give us the lead at 42-40 before Paul took over.
Against Indiana he tried to do too much but that was because Paul and Cam disappeared.
Against Illinois he had a terrific first half with 12 points driving for a layup and hitting a bunch of mud range jumpers and was almost single handedly got us that first half lead until Paul finally decided to shoot and got us 8 points. We went away from that in the second half which was a mistake.
Analytics be damned if you understand our team. If Paul refuses to shoot ( Indiana , second half Illinois , Nebraska ) and Cam is not shooting or a factor , we need Caleb to give us 12-18 points on drives , mid range jumpers , post ups , an occasional open three when the ball is swung and at the foul line. We need points and offense not just defense and rebounding from Caleb. So you want to **** on Caleb , typical you , but you do not see why we need him desparately with the Paul , Cam funk and Cliff’s inconsistent play. Effective FG% means crap in our situation.

 

[NickRU714]

We know where the puck was, where it is now, and have a good idea of where it is about to go in regards to recruiting.

Anyone who is a senior now came to a program that was just getting on the map. He now is recruiting to a program on the map.

This is the big picture.
The current roster is limited and weree recruited at a different time in the program.

We are what we are at this point.
Just have to grin and bear it until the higher level talent gets on the court.

 

[RUsojo]

Mr. Absent comes back when we are on a losing streak. How appropriate.
Part of your post , the part about Caleb trying to do too much , going one on one and hoisting early 3 ‘s are accurate and should be eliminated from his game.
But we are lacking offense and unlike you , I think we need more Caleb , posting up , getting in the lane and hitting his 12-14 foot shot , driving to the basket , and hitting the occasional 3.
The start of the comeback against MSU started when he drove on Hoggard and got the and 1 ( more of that ) and then hit the crucial 3 on Paul’s kick out to give us the lead at 42-40 before Paul took over.
Against Indiana he tried to do too much but that was because Paul and Cam disappeared.
Against Illinois he had a terrific first half with 12 points driving for a layup and hitting a bunch of mud range jumpers and was almost single handedly got us that first half lead until Paul finally decided to shoot and got us 8 points. We went away from that in the second half which was a mistake.
Analytics be damned if you understand our team. If Paul refuses to shoot ( Indiana , second half Illinois , Minnesota ) and Cam is not shooting or a factor , we need Caleb to give us 12-18 points on drives , mid range jumpers , post ups , an occasional open three when the ball is swung and at the foul line. We need points and offense not just defense and rebounding from Caleb. So you want to **** on Caleb , typical you , but you do not see why we need him desparately with the Paul , Cam funk and Cliff’s inconsistent play. Effective FG% means crap in our situation.

I don’t understand. You’re gameplan is what we’ve been doing the last few games.

 

[RUsojo]

There is truth to what Sojo, Hawk and BAC are saying. It’s not black or white.

Caleb is clearly taking too many shots and isn’t efficient. On the other hand, we don’t have the quality of depth to simply reallocate a majority of his shots to others.

Also Caleb is a key piece to our defensive and he has to be in the court for a majority of the game. He can’t pass up every single open shot he has.

I would like to see him stop taking 3 pointers and drive to the basket/initiate contact. That would fix a lot of the issue.

Great point because if you look at shot attempts per 100 or per 40 min Caleb is way down the list. It’s shows that Caleb isn’t forcing shots up, chucking, or anything like that.

It’s just to point out when Pike strategizes offensively he needs to do a better job of reallocating shot attempts and unfortunately that requires manufacturing more opportunities for some of our guards who have a tougher time getting good shots on their own. PNR can solve some of that.

 

[RUsojo]

This would make sense if we had normal or traditional basketball players at all 5 positions. I don't look at efg %, when Mulcahy turns down more shot attempts than he should. I'm sure PM has a better efg%, but it's a phantom stat since he takes only spot up 3s or an occasional floater and layup.

If this was last year and he's the 5th option on offense behind RHJ, Geo, Cliff and Paul and was taking the 2nd most shots, then this would be a real discussion point.

But if Cam only takes wide open threes or turn around fade away 2s and an occasional layup, who else is supposed to take the shots, up against the end of the shot clock?? It's certainly not Mulcahy and Hyatt is a catch and shoot option.

The efg is not relevant. I can count a handful of "bad shots" Caleb has taken this year.

Eh fwiw Cam is making more fg a game than McConnell and taking them same amount of attempts; Paul virtually the same amount of made attempts a game.

If you want those guys to take more shots, well then you agree with the OP. And if you think they have trouble getting more shots on their own, then yeah you agree with the OP on Pike manufacturing more shots for them.

I’m not going to comment on you being negative about players selecting good shots and passing low-efficiency attempts.

 

[Scangg]

It's a direct result of Paul not being aggressive. Someone has to do something on offense and we are also struggling trying to get the ball into Cliff in the post

 

[MiloTalon13]

Zoom, zoom, zoom -

 

[RUsojo]

Zoom, zoom, zoom -

We ran a lot more zoom action last season

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

It's a direct result of Paul not being aggressive. Someone has to do something on offense and we are also struggling trying to get the ball into Cliff in the post

We are struggling once we get it to Cliff in the post

 

[Scangg]

We are struggling once we get it to Cliff in the post

That's a different topic but we still are struggling to get the ball to Cliff even though we try to which leads to more Caleb

 

[MiloTalon13]

That's a different topic but we still are struggling to get the ball to Cliff even though we try to which leads to more Caleb

And is it even worth trying to get it in to Cliff?
What are our average points per possession after a Cliff post touch vs other scenarios? Conference play only, not counting cupcakes. I don't think those numbers are available but if they were, I'll be t something like a simple wing to wing reversal is more likely to lead to greater points per possession than a Cliff post touch.

 

[goru7]

I don’t understand. You’re gameplan is what we’ve been doing the last few games.

Are you thick. ? Paul and Cam and Cliff and lastly Caleb to a lesser extent are letting us down ? Caleb is taking more shots because PAul and Cam are not performing well or refusing to shoot. Caleb has to fill the void. Ideally , Paul shoots a lot more and Cam shoots 10-13 shots a game so Caleb shoots 8-10 shots in the way I described in the prior post. Clear enough for you.

 

[essexknight]

We are struggling once we get it to Cliff in the post

We don’t have enough shooters to space the floor once the ball gets inside. Cam is struggling right now. Paul is shooting above 40% from 3 on low volume, but he is not shooting enough. This leads to more shots from Hyatt and Caleb. Losing Mag’s efficiency on offense also hurts

 

[RutgersClassof2004]

I just wanna see more winning, less losing.

 

[fluoxetine]

I don’t understand. You’re gameplan is what we’ve been doing the last few games.

There's no possible way to sit Caleb. His defense definitely makes up for his offense, especially compared to whoever would get his minutes; it's not clear that the bench players are even a huge upgrade offensively vs Caleb and they are a huge downgrade defensively.

I think it's important to remember that only the most recent game was a huge disaster; the team that showed up to play Indiana and Illinois will shoot better on average and Cliff got in foul trouble vs. Illinois. And then it was the defense that really powered the actually terrible performance on Tuesday. You aren't fixing that by sitting Caleb.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

We don’t have enough shooters to space the floor once the ball gets inside. Cam is struggling right now. Paul is shooting above 40% from 3 on low volume, but he is not shooting enough. This leads to more shots from Hyatt and Caleb. Losing Mag’s efficiency on offense also hurts

That is part of it.

Cliff is not getting deep enough
Cliff’s decision making is too slow and overall poor.

We have to make defenses pay by selling out to double him. Ball need to quickly come back out after entry occasionally where we can quickly move the ball and make the weak side D have to move back to his man.

 

[RUsojo]

There's no possible way to sit Caleb. His defense definitely makes up for his offense, especially compared to whoever would get his minutes; it's not clear that the bench players are even a huge upgrade offensively vs Caleb and they are a huge downgrade defensively.

I think it's important to remember that only the most recent game was a huge disaster; the team that showed up to play Indiana and Illinois will shoot better on average and Cliff got in foul trouble vs. Illinois. And then it was the defense that really powered the actually terrible performance on Tuesday. You aren't fixing that by sitting Caleb.

Agree and don’t think anyone suggested to sit Caleb unless I missed it.