Cardinal Fans: What's Wrong w/the team?
- Thread starter Indndawg
- Start date
Lance Berkman, Chris Carpenter, Allen Craig, Yadier Molina, Jaime Garcia, Skip Schumaker, Jon Jay, Kyle McClellan,and Matt Carpenter have all missed time on the DL. That's 9 players out of 25 that made the club out of Spring Training. Also, Adam Wainwright is coming off TJ surgery and hasn't got the feel back for his pitches yet. He's close, but not quite there yet.
The pitching has been a roller coaster too. I read yesterday were the Cardinals ERA by month was April-2.70, May-5.90, June-5.70. While the 2.70 would've been impossible to continue, you'd expect much better than high 5s for May and June.
With all that being said, they're still only 3.5 games back. Getting Berkman and C. Carpenter back before August 1st will be key.
The pitching has been a roller coaster too. I read yesterday were the Cardinals ERA by month was April-2.70, May-5.90, June-5.70. While the 2.70 would've been impossible to continue, you'd expect much better than high 5s for May and June.
With all that being said, they're still only 3.5 games back. Getting Berkman and C. Carpenter back before August 1st will be key.
This team was 28-13 at one point in the season with a "few" injures (Berkman, Carpenter, Schumaker, Craig).
Since then, we've experienced more than just a "few" injuries. While you'd like to have enough depth to recover from what we've gone though, I really doubt there's any team in MLB that could withstand 9 defections from their most desirable 25 players and still be good.
All-in-all, we've done enough to stay close enough to this race that we should be buyers come the trade deadline, if need be. If we lost another 5 or 6 gamesin the standingsto the Reds this month, we could potentially stay stagnant and hope that Berkman/Carpenter returning gives us enough of a boost to get back in it.
Since then, we've experienced more than just a "few" injuries. While you'd like to have enough depth to recover from what we've gone though, I really doubt there's any team in MLB that could withstand 9 defections from their most desirable 25 players and still be good.
All-in-all, we've done enough to stay close enough to this race that we should be buyers come the trade deadline, if need be. If we lost another 5 or 6 gamesin the standingsto the Reds this month, we could potentially stay stagnant and hope that Berkman/Carpenter returning gives us enough of a boost to get back in it.
A lot of guys with an ERA of 6 or more. That's not going to cut it. And Motte has an ERA over 3 with 4 blown saves.
I think they miss Dave Duncan.
If I were them, I would trade for Jonthan Broxton and then move Motte back to a set-up role. I don't want Garza.
I would be fine with Grienke if the price isn't too high. Both are in division, so that will make it tougher to make a move and probably be more costly.
I pray to God that they don't pick up Westbrook's option, but I bet they do.
I think they miss Dave Duncan.
If I were them, I would trade for Jonthan Broxton and then move Motte back to a set-up role. I don't want Garza.
I would be fine with Grienke if the price isn't too high. Both are in division, so that will make it tougher to make a move and probably be more costly.
I pray to God that they don't pick up Westbrook's option, but I bet they do.
solely based upon how Shelby Miller finishes this season. He's been downright bad in AAA this year. If he figures it out, I think they STL mgmt will gamble onhim and spend that $8million somewhere else.
I think Miller will figure it out. He has been trying to strike everyone out and is relying on his fastball too much. They put him on a "no shake" rule for the time being- in other words he can't shake off the catcher's signs- and I think he will be fine.
I bet Shelby gets called up in Sept. and they'll see what he can do.
I bet Shelby gets called up in Sept. and they'll see what he can do.
Motte's ERA is 3.38 and Broxton's is 2.05. Advantage Broxton.
But what I like about Motte is his ability to limit baserunners, as evidenced by his 1.01 WHIP and .193 BAA (vs 1.34 and .257 vs Broxton).
Broxton will be a good piece to bolster the bullpen, but bringing him to replace Motte would be a little much. No need to part with minor league talent in this case.
But what I like about Motte is his ability to limit baserunners, as evidenced by his 1.01 WHIP and .193 BAA (vs 1.34 and .257 vs Broxton).
Broxton will be a good piece to bolster the bullpen, but bringing him to replace Motte would be a little much. No need to part with minor league talent in this case.
there's the A's, Dodgers, Padres, Nationals, Phillies, Rays, Red Sox, Yankees, Rangers, to name a few. Currently, ther are 21 teams with more players on the DL than the great cardinals.
a closer- even a near All-Star one- would cost a lot less in prospects than a starting pitcher like Grienke or Garza.
A bullpen with Boggs, Motte, and Broxton would be solid. And I really like Maikel Cleto.
Lohse and Westbrook aren't going anywhere this year. Wainwright is getting better, and Lynn is an All-Star. I would gamble that Carpenter or Garcia will be back. If they don't, I'll live with Joe Kelly.
If they start to limit Wainwright and Lynn- I think it's prudent to strengthen the bullpen because they're going to be used a lot anyway. Plus, I think the Cardinals might be able to get Tim Collins and Louis Coleman from the Royals along with Broxton if the deal is right. That would strengthen the bullpen that much more. Where's Colby Rasmus when we need him?
A bullpen with Boggs, Motte, and Broxton would be solid. And I really like Maikel Cleto.
Lohse and Westbrook aren't going anywhere this year. Wainwright is getting better, and Lynn is an All-Star. I would gamble that Carpenter or Garcia will be back. If they don't, I'll live with Joe Kelly.
If they start to limit Wainwright and Lynn- I think it's prudent to strengthen the bullpen because they're going to be used a lot anyway. Plus, I think the Cardinals might be able to get Tim Collins and Louis Coleman from the Royals along with Broxton if the deal is right. That would strengthen the bullpen that much more. Where's Colby Rasmus when we need him?
I asked about teams whose initial 25 man roster had more than 9 guys miss time on the DL this year. There hasn't been another team in baseball who has dealt with what the Cardinals have dealt with. No **** that every team has injuries. The Dodgers losing Kemp, the Yankees losing CC, etc.... The Cardinals were doing just fine when it was only Berkman and Carpenter. But after the rest, it was too much to overcome. We've relied on Matt Adams, Joe Kelly, Shane Robinson, Meikel Cleto, Brandon Dickson, and Adron Chambers to fill that gap.
And I'm actually kind of glad you brought up currently.... Because currently, the Cardinals, with a little bit of health, have won 6 of their last 9, further proving my point.
Here's the damage:
An ace coming off of TJ surgery
A #2 pitcher who has yet to throw a pitch
A #3 pitcher who's been out for over a month
A cleanup hitter with only 49 plate appearances
An all-star catcher who missed 2 weeks
A starting CF who missed more than a month
A long-reliever who's missed most of the year
The two most used bench players have both missed more than a month's time.
Your hate for the Cardinals is blinding you.
And I'm actually kind of glad you brought up currently.... Because currently, the Cardinals, with a little bit of health, have won 6 of their last 9, further proving my point.
Here's the damage:
An ace coming off of TJ surgery
A #2 pitcher who has yet to throw a pitch
A #3 pitcher who's been out for over a month
A cleanup hitter with only 49 plate appearances
An all-star catcher who missed 2 weeks
A starting CF who missed more than a month
A long-reliever who's missed most of the year
The two most used bench players have both missed more than a month's time.
Your hate for the Cardinals is blinding you.
calm down before you hurt yourself. I see you conveniently skipped the part that answered your question, and deflected to one small part I included. You asked me to name a team that has dealt with the amount of injuries and I named multiple. Your blind loyalty and attitude that "the cardinals can do no wrong" is clouding your judgement. Sorry, but their **** does, in fact, stink. Injuries in MLB aren't really much of an excuse, to me.
ETA: I don't really dislike the cardinals, just their fans that think they're theholy grail ofbaseball and their blind homer-ism.
ETA: I don't really dislike the cardinals, just their fans that think they're theholy grail ofbaseball and their blind homer-ism.
It is just awful. It killed them to lose McClellan but the rest of the bullpen has been total garbage. Motte is very shaky as a closer and he needs to figure out that he needs to throw more than fastballs.
There are going to be growing pains with a pretty green coaching staff and no Dave Duncan. Injuries are a killer but that's a problem for everyone this year. The offense has picked back up with Carpenter Jay and Schumacher coming off the DL. Most of the problem lies within the bullpen and its going to have to be fixed with some outside help. Mo has his work cut out for him.
There are going to be growing pains with a pretty green coaching staff and no Dave Duncan. Injuries are a killer but that's a problem for everyone this year. The offense has picked back up with Carpenter Jay and Schumacher coming off the DL. Most of the problem lies within the bullpen and its going to have to be fixed with some outside help. Mo has his work cut out for him.
I'm not going to cry about injuries but it was clear that the offense was sputtering because of injuries. It has since turned back around with the guys coming off the DL. They had tapped deep into the AAA roster and it wasn't there. Matt Adams I think can be a good player with more work but it was clear he wasn't ready for the majors and Adron Chambers is a very green player who at best will be a 4th outfielder at best.
and it's because Chris Carpenter, Jaime Garcia, and Kyle McClellan have been injured, forcing us to rely on guys like Eduardo Sanchez, Freeman, and Cleto to get some outs.
Rzepczynski and Salas have struggled, but the burden on them would be a LOT less if they were helped by Lynn and McClellan.
Same thing for our offense. If Berkman, Craig, Jay, and Schumaker hadn't been injured, we wouldn't have had to rely on Adams, Robinson, M. Carpenter to produce. Those three guys should be in Memphis, not St. Louis.
Our team hasn't performed, but it's because we're asking AAA players to produce more ML at-bats and innings than they're capable of at this point.
Rzepczynski and Salas have struggled, but the burden on them would be a LOT less if they were helped by Lynn and McClellan.
Same thing for our offense. If Berkman, Craig, Jay, and Schumaker hadn't been injured, we wouldn't have had to rely on Adams, Robinson, M. Carpenter to produce. Those three guys should be in Memphis, not St. Louis.
Our team hasn't performed, but it's because we're asking AAA players to produce more ML at-bats and innings than they're capable of at this point.
and give up Shelby Miller and Carlos Martinez for him. And then sign Westbrook to an extension. That would be a crappy day for me.
I'm wondering about Derek Lilliquist. Scrabble and Salas have taken BIG steps back this year.
And Motte worried me with a quote about using his fastball no matter what because that's the type of pitcher he is. (paraphrased) That tells me that the pitching coach isn't doing what he is supposed to- tell him to miss low and focus on location.
I'm wondering about Derek Lilliquist. Scrabble and Salas have taken BIG steps back this year.
And Motte worried me with a quote about using his fastball no matter what because that's the type of pitcher he is. (paraphrased) That tells me that the pitching coach isn't doing what he is supposed to- tell him to miss low and focus on location.
So I was wrong to suggest this team could be pretty average if the injury bug bit, but this is a pretty average team because the injury bug has bit?<div>missouridawg said:
</div><div>Got it.
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That pretty much describes last year too. An decent team that had quite a few injuries and was very average that got "hot" because everyone got healthy.Ol Blue said: