Iowa had 3 athletic guards this season - Perkins, Ulis, Bowen from Indianapolis, Chicago and Boston
My point in saying "Iowa" is that if the Big Ten wants to get better in NCAA tourneys it's not just about not running offense through the Big Men
My point in saying "Iowa" is that if the Big Ten wants to get better in NCAA tourneys it's not just about not running offense through the Big Men
They certainly go off of more than “vibes” when most can correctly pick 67 of 68 selections
national championship has zero to do with what conferences are better...gimme the records of the acc and pac 12 schools the past two years..i will wait here
Haha yeah. Wonder if Reiber will be starting 4 over Mag again next season
Well Big east and Sec are better. I agree with you on PAC 12 and ACC is debatable. I do know National championship s has WAY more to do with success then academic standards. That has ZERO to do with it.
Carino still hates the fact that RU landed in the BIG and the money and prestige it brings. He needs to bad mouth what he ( the Hall )wants but doesn't have.
He gets article ideas from here that’s for sure.
Like the comment about the Tourney expanding and/or the Power 5's break away (less likely) - plus it gives the impression - big school can't beat little school; and the sports world likes a good upset. But with the SEC & B1G expanding - you bet they want more of their teams in (certainly not less). And their influence will continue to make that happen.
Nonsense, homer denial. Minimum eligibility standards same as almost everywhere else and lower than the Ivies obviously. Same bogus majors, same ‘special admits’ rampant across the revenue sports. that is absolutely not a reason for poor tourney play. It’s frankly asinine to suggest that schools like Hofstra, FDU, St Peters and of course Princeton get players that can’t get in to Rutgers.
The answer lies in coaching approach/strategy. Smaller programs focus more on fundamentals, offensive flow and strategy and high major coaching is much more about favoring size and athleticism instead. High major basketball is more about showcasing talent and hopefully winning. St. Peter’s most certainly did not beat Kentucky because it has lower academic standards.
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The flagship program in the P12 is joining the B1G in 2 years. That will end any goofy debate about it being better than the B1G, which it isn't. When UCLA and USC join it will force all of the schools in the B1G to improve.
Yep. In most cases, you're actually required to attend classes. Who knew??
At the end of the day, basketball is a long 30+ game season and 11 out of 14 BIG teams were good enough to be selected for post season play (8 NCAA TEAMS). Plus we’re adding 2 more tournament teams.
It may be true about admissions but in many instances some schools dOnt require players to go to classes and get an education
What I want to know is after watching how teams like Arkansas, Creighton, uconn, Houston, Alabama, Miami etc played in this tournament why would you want to continue playing the "big ten style" even if it wasn’t a detriment to national success (which it is).
Uconn's leading scorer is a low post player and their 2nd leading scorer/40 mins is his backup.
They ALSO have athletic guards who can shoot and play uptempo.
Their starting 4 made 59 threes
They have 6 top 100 kids and 4 good transfers
Sure teams should try to play more like them but you gotta have that talent to do it.
I think almost every coach in America would like to play like those teams
again, 1000% no. winning is what matters. require going to classes ? hell no, Big10 and RU are no different than 99% of the other schools out there. any coach who requires players to go to class ain't going to recruit or win enough to keep his job, now more than ever.
Academic Advising is merely advising kids who 'athlete-friendly' faculty/classes are and what classes they DON'T need to attend. See here...Big10. 30 years ago and not something called out every day only because it's generally understood.
So you think Myles Johnson ended up in graduate school for engineering by taking only athlete friendly classes at RU. How about Cliff?
Do you think Paul got his degree in 3 years because he only took gut courses?
I have no idea how much our players in basketball and football are pushed to do well in class, but I find players such as the McCourty's coming off as intelligent, educated people when they are interviewed.
I believe there have been posters on here who had classes with Schiano's football players and found them to be serious about their studies.
Granted there are probably at least some schools who don't expect anything from their players in the classroom (see Herschel Walker or the UNC imaginary class scandal), but throwing every school in the slacker athletes category is incorrect.
I suspect there is a decent percentage of schools that encourage their athletes to excel in the classroom. That is why tutoring programs are mentioned.
I also believe there are families and athletes out there who want the academic training a school can provide.
I know we have more than one former RU player on this board, so they likely can provide more active insight than you have.
It is easy just to suggest every program out there is the same, but I think the opposite is true. There is a diversity of philosophies and opportunities.
Also diversity and philosophy amongst players in the program. Not every player are the Mccourty brothers at RU.
They made the statement this year when they chucked RU as the B1G #9 team from the tourney.
In hindsight they were only taking 8 B1G teams. Once we lost to Minny and NW and finished #9 we were toast in the eyes of the committee imo.
The conference tournament win vs Michigan was too little too late.
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These numbers are interesting, but it really is what have you done lately. What are those numbers from 2002 through today?
If Creighton, UConn, Miami and Xavier all lose before making the Final 4 and defense 1st teams like Houston, UCLA Tennessee or MSU advance, will we end this wrong and inaccurate item??
What's ironic about Jerry Carino and his B1G comment, is SHU was probably the most horrific looking offensive team out of anyone in the Eastern Seaboard or Big East/B1G. It's not like he's consistent in applying his narratives, it's selective memories people have.
And the RU fans who don't like Pike, fall for it.....LMAO
What's ironic about Jerry Carino and his B1G comment, is SHU was probably the most horrific looking offensive team out of anyone in the Eastern Seaboard or Big East/B1G. It's not like he's consistent in applying his narratives, it's selective memories people have.
And the RU fans who don't like Pike, fall for it.....LMAO
There are still lots of Final Four appearances for all of the leagues....13 B1G appearances since 2002. Some multiples in Final Fours as well.
It's as if the narrative is the B1G isn't successful and it's the single item of a National Championship, the B1G is in line or ahead of other leagues in every other measurement.
USC is a meh team as far as hoops are concerned, but UCLA will indeed force the B1G to evolve past dinosaur basketball.
Meh.....??? It's clear that you aren't paying close attention and that is part of the media image and not covering USC like they should.
USC has recruited the most 5* players in hoops the last 5 years, more than any other "B1G" school, including Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana and Ohio State...and more than UCLA too.
They have 1 Second Weekend appearance since 2007. They were brought in to be a sexy name for football, and that's okay.
If Rutgers can reel in the dream 2024 class we can stand alongside UCLA in this evolution of B1G basketball
I’m not saying all BIG1G schools require kids to go to classes but I can definitely corroborate that Pike does and the students excel. Miles Johnson was definitely a great example
Jacob young go to class? It’s not a ding on Pike but all schools have kids who push the envelope . As talent increases you will have more kids who “go to class”
. Top tier one and done talent will be fringe students. Pike will also do little about it.I hope you have pretty good evidence that Young didn’t go to class because that is pretty classless to say about a player without first hand knowledgeJacob young go to class? It’s not a ding on Pike but all schools have kids who push the envelope . As talent increases you will have more kids who “go to class”
Jacob young go to class? It’s not a ding on Pike but all schools have kids who push the envelope . As talent increases you will have more kids who “go to class”
Yes as well as him being Joe mixon like at and outside the knight club. Needed his energy and toughness on the court but Glad to see him go.
See him go
We measure basketball teams by the # of stars they recruited now?
Along houston and UCLA defense first teams is disingenuous at best. Those are just elite teams overall. Calling Michigan St a defense first team is also disingenuous. Tennessee is defense first. Even so, these teams offensive/defensive kenpom splits in order are:
9/4
21/2
38/31
60/1
If you want to win a national title, in the last decade you needed to fit one of two profiles:
Top 7 offense and Top 20 defense
Or
Be UConn. Same defensive metrics, but offense better than 40th with elite scoring guard.
This year going into the tournament only Bama fit the first profile. The other top 20 def top 40 off with elite guard play are/were:
Houston
UCLA
Texas
Uconn
Kansas
Creighton
Close by
K St
Duke
Arkansas
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And that only speaks to Myles, not much about Pike. Am not knocking Pike just like I wouldn’t criticize someone driving 120 on the Autobahn. It’s just the lay of the land. He doesn’t give a crap about class, nor should he, no matter what he might say about it publicly.
The conference bashing or stating conference A is better than conference B doesn’t hold up for most of the time periods. Hawk has cited going back to the 80’s and 90’s and the Big 10 record but that isn’t very relevant
Here is another stat; From 2000-2019 the BIG 10 reached 16 Final Fours and the most of any conference and 48 Sweet 16 ‘s just shy of the ACC’s 50 during that time. The Big 10 has played in the National Championship game and lost in 2005 Illinois , 2007 Ohio State , 2009 Michigan State , 2013 Michigan , 2015 Wisconsin and 2018 Michigan . So losing 6 championships games in 13 years is a little bit of bad luck.
So the narrative prior to 2018/2019 is just stupid and dumb. Considering how many years the data is there from 2000.
Next , the argument about the lack of NBA Talent but that isn’t it either as the BIG 10 had the most players drafted in 2022 and still did not win in 2022 and likely will not win in 2023 and will still have a number drafted this year.
So is it style of play going through the bigs or is it the better seeded teams just underperformed. In 2021 Illinois as a 1 and Iowa as a 2 and Ohio State as a 2 lost to a 15 seed and in 2022 top seeded Wisconsin and Illinois and Iowa off their Big 10 tourney championship flamed out as well . This year Purdue was a flawed team and flamed out but seeded 1 but the rest of the conference , went 5-3 on Days 1 and 2 but only MSU survives but the losses by Maryland 7 seed lost to a 1 Alabama ; NW a 7 seed loses to first 2 Seed UCLA ; Penn State a 10 seed loses to second 2 seed in Texas , so all 3 lost to not only regular season or conference tourney champs , 2 out of 3 in competitive games. Indiana a 4 lost to Miami a 5 ,,, another regular season ACC champ . Illinois and Iowa spit the bit and lost in 8/ 9 matchups. So this year it is just losing to higher seeded teams except Purdue. This is also the first year there are no dominant teams not Alabama , not Houston , not Kansas , not UCLA or Texas either. Just the losses to higher seeded teams that happened to win championships.
So the argument of more athletic NBA talent and guards doesn’t hold water in 2022 when Iowa with Murray , Purdue with IVey; Wisconsin with Jonny Davis , Ohio State with Malaki Brangham , or going back to 2019 with Purdue losing with Carson Edwards. So not concluding that as the reason.
The only thing that seems to be true from the eye test , is that teams that play more uptempo , shoot more 3’s especially in transition and make them seem to have success over the possession to possession half court teams. But that doesn’t explain Tennessee or Houston or San Diego State lockdown defensive efforts to beat Duke , Auburn and Furman ( who beat Virginia ‘s half court style with their transition 3’s )
The only thing one can conclude when all the teams in the country are flawed is that you better shoot the 3 well and you better play pretty decent defense.and rebound to have a better chance of winning than losing. I wonder if the answer is that the Big 10 grind of 20 games plus the tourney has left the teams without the legs to shoot well enough to win and still play the defense that they do in order to win.
The Big 12 , without much doubt was a gauntlet this year and they killed each other for 18 games plus the tourney but they only have 2 of 7 left , one being Texas , their tourney champ ( who only beat Penn State because they went thru their Big who scored a career high 28 points ) and Kansas State . Their 1,3,5,6,7 are out. The BiG 10 fatigue filtered to the BIG 12 this year as well.
Here is another stat; From 2000-2019 the BIG 10 reached 16 Final Fours and the most of any conference and 48 Sweet 16 ‘s just shy of the ACC’s 50 during that time. The Big 10 has played in the National Championship game and lost in 2005 Illinois , 2007 Ohio State , 2009 Michigan State , 2013 Michigan , 2015 Wisconsin and 2018 Michigan . So losing 6 championships games in 13 years is a little bit of bad luck.
So the narrative prior to 2018/2019 is just stupid and dumb. Considering how many years the data is there from 2000.
Next , the argument about the lack of NBA Talent but that isn’t it either as the BIG 10 had the most players drafted in 2022 and still did not win in 2022 and likely will not win in 2023 and will still have a number drafted this year.
So is it style of play going through the bigs or is it the better seeded teams just underperformed. In 2021 Illinois as a 1 and Iowa as a 2 and Ohio State as a 2 lost to a 15 seed and in 2022 top seeded Wisconsin and Illinois and Iowa off their Big 10 tourney championship flamed out as well . This year Purdue was a flawed team and flamed out but seeded 1 but the rest of the conference , went 5-3 on Days 1 and 2 but only MSU survives but the losses by Maryland 7 seed lost to a 1 Alabama ; NW a 7 seed loses to first 2 Seed UCLA ; Penn State a 10 seed loses to second 2 seed in Texas , so all 3 lost to not only regular season or conference tourney champs , 2 out of 3 in competitive games. Indiana a 4 lost to Miami a 5 ,,, another regular season ACC champ . Illinois and Iowa spit the bit and lost in 8/ 9 matchups. So this year it is just losing to higher seeded teams except Purdue. This is also the first year there are no dominant teams not Alabama , not Houston , not Kansas , not UCLA or Texas either. Just the losses to higher seeded teams that happened to win championships.
So the argument of more athletic NBA talent and guards doesn’t hold water in 2022 when Iowa with Murray , Purdue with IVey; Wisconsin with Jonny Davis , Ohio State with Malaki Brangham , or going back to 2019 with Purdue losing with Carson Edwards. So not concluding that as the reason.
The only thing that seems to be true from the eye test , is that teams that play more uptempo , shoot more 3’s especially in transition and make them seem to have success over the possession to possession half court teams. But that doesn’t explain Tennessee or Houston or San Diego State lockdown defensive efforts to beat Duke , Auburn and Furman ( who beat Virginia ‘s half court style with their transition 3’s )
The only thing one can conclude when all the teams in the country are flawed is that you better shoot the 3 well and you better play pretty decent defense.and rebound to have a better chance of winning than losing. I wonder if the answer is that the Big 10 grind of 20 games plus the tourney has left the teams without the legs to shoot well enough to win and still play the defense that they do in order to win.
The Big 12 , without much doubt was a gauntlet this year and they killed each other for 18 games plus the tourney but they only have 2 of 7 left , one being Texas , their tourney champ ( who only beat Penn State because they went thru their Big who scored a career high 28 points ) and Kansas State . Their 1,3,5,6,7 are out. The BiG 10 fatigue filtered to the BIG 12 this year as well.