For what its worth, as someone who grew up a christian in a muslim country, muslims can S a D. What a truly POS god awful religion. I'm not really christian anymore, but there's no comparison IMO. At least Christians pretend to be tolerant and nice even if they are total hypocrites themselves (well, at least most of them), the muslims in a majority muslim country are just outward ******** to non-believers.
Charlie Brown Christmas banned in Johnson Country School
- Thread starter mrhotdice
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What makes you believe they were christian deist? If your saying this because they were born and raised christians, okay. Bit if your saying it because that's what they believed..no
What makes you think it's not what they believed?
it's not me just saying it Brassow. Do you think they believed in an afterlife?
Read the letters by their own hands. Read Adams and Jeffersons letters to each other I posted earlier. Jefferson clearly believes in Christianity. He thinks priests, preachers and high ranking officials had perverted it to their personal gain, that was true then as it is now.
His bible was removing this and getting down to the core teachings of Christ. Adams writes that the government was founded on Christian Principles.
It's like you're trying to convince yourself these men weren't Christian, so it would justify your point of view. You don't need justification, it's perfectly fine to believe or not believe whatever you choose, my point is to not rewrite history, that can be dangerous.
i love the fake distinction between "Christian deists" and "non-Christian deists" [laughing]
"Bro, there are Republican anarchists and Democratic anarchists"
You can call yourself whatever you want, but if you don't think the Bible is some form of revelation from a deity and you don't think Jesus was divine, good luck getting labeled a "Christian" these days.
"Bro, there are Republican anarchists and Democratic anarchists"
You can call yourself whatever you want, but if you don't think the Bible is some form of revelation from a deity and you don't think Jesus was divine, good luck getting labeled a "Christian" these days.
I honestly have no idea how anyone could advocate for Muslims after seeing what they STILL do today. They're the most backwards lunatics on the planet that oppress everyone and see everyone as inferior.
They have no tolerance towards others at all but they will pretend to when they're outnumbered. We see what they do when the numbers are on their side.
The truth is NO COUNTRY BENEFITS FROM MUSLIM MIGRATION! NO ONE!
http://www.boston.com/news/local/20...om/2T5p49dKXsyaoA0mhbJe2I/story.html#comments
This woman had her room decorated for over 30 years before forced to take it out.
Bangor School Superintendent Betsy Webb told WLBZ-TV in a statement that the school department aims to maintain consistency with its approach to educate students to become global citizens.
Global citizens, everyone. That sounds pretty insane.
This woman had her room decorated for over 30 years before forced to take it out.
Bangor School Superintendent Betsy Webb told WLBZ-TV in a statement that the school department aims to maintain consistency with its approach to educate students to become global citizens.
Global citizens, everyone. That sounds pretty insane.
Jefferson was noted as saying that he liked the moral of the jesus story, but it ends there. From Augustaky's link.
Thomas Jefferson
Even most Christians do not consider Jefferson a Christian. In many of his letters, he denounced the superstitions of Christianity. He did not believe in spiritual souls, angels or godly miracles. Although Jefferson did admire the morality of Jesus, Jefferson did not think him divine, nor did he believe in the Trinity or the miracles of Jesus. In a letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787, he wrote, “Question with boldness even the existence of a god.”
Jefferson believed in materialism, reason, and science. He never admitted to any religion but his own. In a letter to Ezra Stiles Ely, 25 June 1819, he wrote, “You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know.”
This from Adams
John Adams
Adams, a Unitarian, flatly denied the doctrine of eternal damnation. In a letter to Thomas Jefferson, he wrote:
“I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved — the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!”
In his letter to Samuel Miller, 8 July 1820, Adams admitted his unbelief of Protestant Calvinism: “I must acknowledge that I cannot class myself under that denomination.”
In his, “A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America” [1787-1788], John Adams wrote:
“The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.
“. . . Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.”
John Adams
Adams, a Unitarian, flatly denied the doctrine of eternal damnation. In a letter to Thomas Jefferson, he wrote:
“I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved — the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!”
In his letter to Samuel Miller, 8 July 1820, Adams admitted his unbelief of Protestant Calvinism: “I must acknowledge that I cannot class myself under that denomination.”
In his, “A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America” [1787-1788], John Adams wrote:
“The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.
“. . . Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind.”
The purpose of the separation clause is to keep the gov from adopting a religion and/or forcing it on citizens. Disallowing the practice or expression of it was never the purpose. Again, as a Christian and former school admin, I would not want the average school or school employee teaching my kids religious beliefs.
Willy, I think you're missing my point. What Adams wrote is true, the government is not supposed to benefit any religion over another, it's a brilliant idea. But Christian principles were behind the design of the Govt. Adams writes that to Jefferson. I don't know how else to take what he wrote than at face value.
It was a different time Willy, you didn't parade your faith around for political reasons...because everyone was religious to some degree.
I remember watching a show where they were trying say Lincoln was homosexual because he stayed in hotel rooms with men. They were looking at 1850's as if we're today. It wasn't a big deal then because the idea of homosexuality was outlandish to even consider. The same holds true with this, they didn't proclaim religion because it was a given.
It was a different time Willy, you didn't parade your faith around for political reasons...because everyone was religious to some degree.
I remember watching a show where they were trying say Lincoln was homosexual because he stayed in hotel rooms with men. They were looking at 1850's as if we're today. It wasn't a big deal then because the idea of homosexuality was outlandish to even consider. The same holds true with this, they didn't proclaim religion because it was a given.
If you mean in regards of the construction of the white house. Yes, the puritanical work day was developed because of the construction of the white house. The Fore Fathers were appalled (guys who were Deists) at the work ethic of the people building the white house. They did not out of belief but because they were appalled.
And Bill, if you could help me out here so I can better understand you. What specific principles did our Gov't design from Christianity?
Just had to address this.
There are about 11 million registered GOP members in the state. That's nearly 3x the entire KY population to you and me. Also, there's about 25 million Christian church attendees here in CA.
The hardest part about being a Christian in CA is finding a parking spot on Sunday.
What part of California? Lots of red in some parts but so much blue in others that it dominates the whole state.
Have you been a conservative student or Christian on a liberal campus? Because I can tell you it's a knock down drag out fight every single day.
Principles that guide each man into what is right or wrong Willy. Where do you think these men acquired their morals?
I'm not going to argue with you Willy, you've got your mind made up the forefathers were deist.
It doesn't matter what part of CA you are in if you're a decent person. Around 40% of SF are regular church goers. They're treated the same as other folks. There are zero problems between church going residents and those who go to bars on Sunday.
And no, you can't tell me it's "a knock down drag out fight every single day" on a campus, liberal or otherwise, for a conservative and/or Christian. That's f'n absurd. Unless you're just offended by tits and beer.....actually, that doesn't count, you're just being a prude.
You go looking for 'knock down drag out fights every day.' You love it. You thrive on it. You live for it. Own it.
Lived in Cali for 20+ years. Had *many* people express shock when I dared question anything about their version of Christianity. Had people tell me I was going to hell for being raised Catholic. Had coworkers who listened to Rush Limbaugh at work all day and threw a fit when people asked them to turn it down in their cubicle.
^that was right before the conservative Christians were sent to the infamous CA re-education camps, I can only assume.
Luckily our campuses make Christians fight every day in gladiator pits to reduce their population. It's the thunderdome out here.
Luckily our campuses make Christians fight every day in gladiator pits to reduce their population. It's the thunderdome out here.
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But morals aren't exclusive for religion. There isn't one act of morality that a Christian can do, that an Atheist can't. Think about that Bill. Morals are not exclusive to religion. Every moral that a Christian can do, a Humanist or an Atheist can also do it too.
Based on the information at hand. Not trying to argue either Bill.
Just attempting to teach here. Morals were created before religion.
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Oh BS. WTH are you talking about? As if any of this has anything to do with beer.
It has to do with the freakouts and hostility if you dare challenge a liberal talking point. I was in class after the Paris attacks. I was there for the Muslim "clock boy." I was in there for Kim Davis and every shooting or news story we've had the past five months. Their reactions, contradictions and what they allowed into the university's newspaper was amazing
I got to see the hit pieces ran on Christianity in our newspaper in defense of "clock boy" while a story citing actual data, facts and stories about the dangers of the European migrant crisis was held and edited because they didn't want to "offend Muslims." We had students freak out when bringing up Islam with Paris. But those same people had no issues using the Planned Parenthood shooting and Kim Davis as the source of their rhetoric.
I do love you trying to tell me what it's like despite you not actually being there. Total idiocy.
Oh, and Beave, as if you have any idea of what it's like on a California campus in the most radical liberal era of our society. You're just talking out of your *** like you always do.
What is your definition of a Christian? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you believe a Christian to be some one who believes in the divinity of Christ, that he died and came back on the third day, and that he will return. Now combine that with deism and see if it works. It doesn't. The term Christian deism is dumb.
I've lived within walking distance to a UC campus for almost 21 years straight now.
I live near several Muslims, Christians, Jews, and Buddhists. I've only had one of the above try to convert me from my heretical Catholic background. Guess which one. I've only had one of the above tell me I'm going to hell. Guess which one.
You were in where? Are you going to school right now? You must be auditing classes or something. You just sit with a group of liberals in class to see reactions to every news story? What school are you attending? If you could, please post links of your university's newspaper opeds that have you so incensed.
I'm turning my porch light on for you in your liberal campus where you have to face a "knock down drag out fights" where liberals might just voice their opinions. There has to be something done to protect conservatives on campus during these "freak outs" in the form of discussion. I'll say this, you're a martyr.
Hit pieces ran on Christianity in "our newspaper" in defense of clock boy? [laughing] You're just making sh*t up now.
Who freely admits to regularly reading their college newspaper? And puts so much emotional stock into it?
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I often hear that we have morals because of religion. Also, that the bible is the word of God. I have never been very knowledgable of the contents of the bible much less a scholar.
Is there one idea, claim, concept or teaching in the bible or religion that HAD to come from a God and could not have been thought of by mankind? I would really like to know.
Edit to add - the question is not directed at Willy it is a general question.
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What morals Willy, morals are whatever a person accepts as right. Jefferson wrote that the morals of Christianity, the actual teachings of Christ were the greatest thing ever offered to man. What morals do you think he lived by?
That is his own words, well he didn't use greatest, but that was the gist of it.
Of course morals aren't exclusive to Christianity. But the men who founded the country had Christian morals. They believed what they were creating was the most equal form of government. That all men were born equal, were born free to govern themselves as they saw fit. That birthright and place in church should not deem one fit for public service.
We created God. So, no. It's all from man. That's why at one point in time it was cool to stone people over stupid ish.
All men. Except men and women of color, women in general, and homosexuals.
That's your idea of what a Christian is, not mine.
My idea of a Christian is someone who believes the teachings of Christ. But it doesn't matter what I think, it matters to each individual person.
I don't even go to church, haven't been in 15 years or more.
Boy never saw that one coming, you were just gnawing at the bit for the chance to throw that in there lol
No. They had reason and logic. Not sure how moral they were? Jefferson had sex with a slave while being married. Ben Franklin was a womanizing drunkard. The Adams family has beer still causing countless deaths a year. The same elite who also ostracized James Otis, who may be the greatest American besides George Washington. Not to get into the slavery part with George Washington, who owned slaves. (not very Christian of him).
Likes I said, there is evidence at hand to suggest that the Founding Fathers were not religious, nor were the US built on Christian principles.
Ok Willy, you seem to think if someone's a Christian they're perfect, they aren't and neither is anyone else.
I love ya Willy, we agree on everything but this, and some of things you "would"
I'm gonna have to bail, we're just going round and round.
I love ya Willy, we agree on everything but this, and some of things you "would"
I'm gonna have to bail, we're just going round and round.
Ok Willy, you seem to think if someone's a Christian they're perfect, they aren't and neither is anyone else.
I love ya Willy, we agree on everything but this, and some of things you "would"
I'm gonna have to bail, we're just going round and round.
Love ya too Bill.
Definite agree on everything but religion. But that's ok.
And that is how a discussion should go on here. Kudos to you two.
becoming one of the better non sequitur threads in recent memory. Keep up the good work gang. lol.
One note of irony in this culture of "religion must be kept out" (a culture I agree with at the core principle, actually) is that it is perpetuated by a modern sect that in forms will widely protect other cultures' right to come in and, when they do, will not come in without it (religion), will not come in without being hell bent on implementing their version of it, any and every stinking where they may. It is as if this process applies the principle of for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. So, truly, if these persons are driven to keep religion out of our schools and our public institutions what should their real purpose be during these times? Otherwise, honestly, they are just jerking themselves off in these discussions. Not men enough to do much else. Charlie Brown? Easy target.
Among the earth dwellers who practice the form of religion recognized as Christianity are, in modern times, a mostly civilized people who have advanced beyond many periods of refinement, and who are now in the 21st Century fully prepared, for the most part, to acquiesce to the logic of separation. However, among the earth dwellers who practice the religion recognized as Islam are a people who remain largely tribalized, and who are not in the least prepared to similarly relent. These two distinctions are a logical as the talking points being made herein as the basis of separation between government and religion. The risk implied also.
We cannot continue to demand sacrifices and fine tuning from ourselves while at the same time maintain a revolving door, red-carpet, open manifest for cultures who will not accept any, and not expect to eventually lose. For the love of God, what side are some of you people on?
One note of irony in this culture of "religion must be kept out" (a culture I agree with at the core principle, actually) is that it is perpetuated by a modern sect that in forms will widely protect other cultures' right to come in and, when they do, will not come in without it (religion), will not come in without being hell bent on implementing their version of it, any and every stinking where they may. It is as if this process applies the principle of for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. So, truly, if these persons are driven to keep religion out of our schools and our public institutions what should their real purpose be during these times? Otherwise, honestly, they are just jerking themselves off in these discussions. Not men enough to do much else. Charlie Brown? Easy target.
Among the earth dwellers who practice the form of religion recognized as Christianity are, in modern times, a mostly civilized people who have advanced beyond many periods of refinement, and who are now in the 21st Century fully prepared, for the most part, to acquiesce to the logic of separation. However, among the earth dwellers who practice the religion recognized as Islam are a people who remain largely tribalized, and who are not in the least prepared to similarly relent. These two distinctions are a logical as the talking points being made herein as the basis of separation between government and religion. The risk implied also.
We cannot continue to demand sacrifices and fine tuning from ourselves while at the same time maintain a revolving door, red-carpet, open manifest for cultures who will not accept any, and not expect to eventually lose. For the love of God, what side are some of you people on?