Meaning schools that don't have to admit everyone and that have controlled admissions can select who comes and who goes. This allwos the school to get like minded individuals which is very beneficial to sports and academics. Whereas public schools must accept anyone in their boundary regardless of their prior behavior, income, or ability to play sports. Its called the Gideon effect/300.
Charlotte Catholic and Cardinal Gibbons 6A
- Thread starter Doppleganger#
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One big difference between Cardinal Gibbons and Charlotte Catholic is CC has four excellent private schools (Big 4) within eight miles or less of the CC campus. Providence Day has decided to go full throttle on football. Christian has been good for years. Country Day was one of the best programs / teams (privae or public) in the state for years. Latin is probably as good as it gets academically and has had some football success. When Raleigh families look at the best option for education the private school choices will not be as abundant. There are Catholic families that opt to pay more than double (around $33k) to send their children to a couple of the Big Four schools. I think Christian is "only" in the low $20k range.
I can assure you when I was involved with the NCHSAA that the Parochials agreed to allow no tuition assistance for athletes to include any third party or the Parochial Schools programs.
There were cases post 2008 of students leaving CC because of this. It was a hot topic because the funds were available to any Catholic family based strictly on finances.
I do not think they are required to follow this rule since the NCHSAA allowed the transfers within the publics. I am not in tune with these rules now.
I do know that it was enforced by CC very strictly at one time. Student attended Catholic schools system and CC from K through freshman or sophomore year. Left for a year to his home public school (seven miles distance between schools), returned to CC after one year and CC would not allow him to play based on the 365 rule. I did not agree with this, thought he should have been allowed to play.
If you are not as in tune with what is happening now at CC then how can you speak out so strongly about what they are or not doing in your earlier post? I can’t speak on the details of what Catholic does or not do when it comes to admissions but it says on their own website that CC offers financial assistance. I do know that many private and parochial schools “officially” do not provide financial aid to athletes but many of the athletes that do come in from the outside are “directed” on where to find tuition assistance AND what to say to get it.
So far. Bishop Mcguiness hasn't been all that good in football. Not yet. I stated a few years ago that Cardinal Gibbons is getting there. And now they might win 6A State Title. By November and December of this year. People are going to start complaining all over the message boards about a good possible match up between Catholic and Gibbons.
I have not been directly involved with high school sports since the COVID season. I follow from the outside now and not at dug in. I am not affiliated with Charlotte Catholic although they were an opponent at one time.
Charlotte Catholic has had the tuition assistance on their website for as long as I can remember. If you read my posts I go in some detail regarding time frame. A lot of rules have changed the last few years which allowed some changes for the Parochials.
If I post something, it is usually because I have firsthand knowledge and experience with it as I had with the tuition assistance at CC.
What I personally was alluding to was the semantics of saying we don’t provide “athletic scholarships or grants to student athletes” which is different from not providing any type tuition assistance to any students. Most privates say the same thing and technically it is true. I am only saying that particular statement isn’t worth two wooden nickels. Beyond that I haven’t said too much about Catholic. They are a great program. CG also. Do I know personally how both schools operate internally from a tuition standpoint, of course not. I do know enough about both to know the sports teams aren’t completely comprised of little Catholic kids paying full tuition. I remember when it was stated multiple times in here to be exact that kids had to sit out sports if they transferred into Catholic. It may have been true at one time but it definitely isn’t true now. Times and cultures change, Catholic isn’t immune. I lived in Raleigh/Clayton areas and so I know CG to be a whole other monster who definitely has no business in 6A.
As I wrote previously, when I was involved with the inner workings through the NCHSAA a Parochial student athlete could not receive any tuiton assitance. I guess it could have been like major college prior to NIL but doubtful there was much of that going on.
I have written many times that I see vast differences in the CC program and CG. I think a major part of that is due to the elite privates in the CC area, the strength of the Union County schools and Providence HS academically. I have thought that Catholic would be strong in 4A the country club/ Olympic sports but not at the level CG would attain.
At one point, Catholic had the 365 transfer rule and they were extremely strict with it only allowing students that moved into the area from another Parochial school system. When the public transfer rules were "relaxed" by the NCHSAA I was told they were also for the Parochials. Not saying I agree with that.
The NC AG is giving all students money toward all private school tuitions now but that is through the state tax system. I do not agree with that at all and it appears the new legislation does not have any income limits so a multi millionaire would get the benefit.
I agree that there are differences between CC and CG. CG can draw from the whole Raleigh metro area with minimum competition from other parochial and private schools. Transfers involving public school football players to CG has increased significantly in the last 8-9 yrs. A couple of years ago CG fielded a team that had 19 starters with D1 offers for football. While CC has had really good teams and talented players, they have never been loaded to that type of extreme that CG had a couple of seasons ago and what CG will possibly field this upcoming season.
CG will be the undoing of Parochial schools in the NCHSAA. I truly believe that but it will be a fight. I have bigger concerns with the Charters and those will get a huge amount of support from the legislature unless every citizen in the areas that feel the brunt become very aggressive with their elected reps.
I have always thought that there should not be a geographical boundary for the Parochial schools but ONLY members of the local Diocese should be allowed to play sports and that should have a requirement of two years prior to participation. That would be the boundary.
CG playing 6A when they were competing and winning against schools that were double the size of many of the current 6A schools is going to be eye opening in a negative way for them and the NCHSAA. Catholic is going to catch a lot of strays because of CG.
I agree that the Charters have a lot of concerns around them that will only be highlighted as state legislatures shift more education dollars their way. Many are built or placed in very close proximity to the public schools they are taking resources from. Some of the politics around Charters can be pretty disgusting. This doesn’t even get into the sports concerns with some of these Charter schools. We haven’t seen nothing yet.
CC has ways of getting financial assistance to athletes just like all private schools. The 365 rule was strengthened in most counties whereas CC relaxed there's. CC is a sports school with excellent academics. These past few years have been hard on CC football as they have not won as much playing up. If they were in 7A they wouldn't be considered a state title contender. Think saw where 90% or more of CC students play sports. Not sure of CG. So in essence you could assume a great deal of students get financial assistance that play sports at CC.
-In these conversations we always think football. But the women's sports, and country club sports are dominated by CC CG, and parochial and charters. When 3 schools have over 200 state titles in 25 years we have an issue. Btango you are super knowledgeable but seem biased towards CC/Parochial and just ignore basic facts. No matter who you support 3 schools winning at that rate is alarming.
1. Controlled admissions is a high advantage
2. NO 365 sit out rule for transfers is a HUGE advantage. CMS had several high profile athletes not be able to play because of this.
3. 6 county border for residency eligibility is just a game changer. Schools with residency borders simply cant compete. Noted in CMS Middle school basketball championships that 3 of the final 4 teams were IB schools that pull from over the county. In CMS football Piedmont, JMA, and Ranson dominate who are also IB schools. The best girls school? Randolph an IB school. If CC had a 5 mile radius they couldn't compete in most sports. With 6 eligible counties its just unfair to public schools. CC shpuld just join the private legaue but they know they wont be as successful or make as much money.
Not biased but I know what happened and posters would get on the board spreading incorrect information.
I am not directly involved with schools now but I was very aware what CC did and did not do.
I agree it is the country club / Olympic sports were they separate from the field. I have always thought Parochials should play up one classification. Always thought they should only allow Catholic parish members to play sports. Never thought they should have a geographical boundary. Many would say my thoughts are biased against the school.
You focus in on CC but they are not biggest issue. CG will be, even if they play in the largest class.
Have more knowledge of CC and their workings vs. CG. CG has become a recent issue whereas Catholic has been an issue for years. You cant say that they have an advantage in country clubs sports, an advantage academically and then think the advantage stops with football. No 365 sit out and no geographical border are the biggest advantages any school can have. Most of the big city issues with sports directly relate to residency. If they had a 5 mile radius and gave out free scholarships for that area they would be much worse.
Think Charlotte Catholic is made up of about 95% Catholic students. How many Catholics do you think live in a five mile radius of Charlotte Catholic?
One major issue with Catholic in "old days" was they were playing 2A and eventually 3A sports. Always thought they should have been playing up at least one classification.
Agree on both points but at at the same time its a distinctive advantage. Could go with them playing up a class and strict 365 as compromise regardless of class. Enter as 9th, and any other transfer 365.
CG has always been an issue in the Raleigh area, people in other parts of the state are just becoming aware once they started competing for 4A football championships with 1500 students. When I lived in the Raleigh area there would be flare ups from angry parents/fans in the local newspaper editorials about the outright domination by CG in the Olympic sports at that time. Currently Raleigh area football coaches have concerns about some of their best young prospects being plucked by CG. I am surprised we haven’t heard more about this but then again the Raleigh area is kind of laissez faire about sports in general. CG is a beautiful school with many well to do students and alumni. CG is a destination school for the top athletes in the Olympic sports and are now using their resources to get really good young players in Raleigh metro to CG football. CG just had a national football prospect camp with Tom Lemming on their campus. Of course they leverage this to get in the ear of area talent. This upcoming CG team would be a definite title contender in 8A as they return double digit ‘26’ players with D1 offers already and some ‘27 kids receiving ACC and SEC attention already. Of course the NCHSAA has them playing 6A smh.
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Here's what I'm hearing through the grapevine: "The “Big 4” schools in Charlotte be flexin hard in sports, especially football, like it’s the Super Bowl every Friday night! Providence Day’s pumpin out those gridiron warriors like it’s a factory, while Charlotte Christian and Country Day got legendary tales that’ll make your grandma cry! But wait, what’s up with Charlotte Catholic? This kid’s been rollin with CC but can’t play after a like, 5-minute pitstop at public school? Sounds like the transfer rules need a serious snack break! Ain’t nobody got time for that kind of unfairness, it’s like finding a flat tire on your way to the next big game!"
Mt. Tabor will be more of a threat than any of the teams mentioned over the next three to four years. Next season, Northern will also pose a bigger threat. Catholic will not dominate like people think. They may make deeper runs and win a championship but 6A is stacked and it will not be easy to win even one.
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Not familiar with what Mt. Tabor or Northern has coming back, but I know KM played a lot of under classmen last season and loose very little in the form of starters (seniors) and has some injured starters returning. Dudleys pipeline is still a Dudley pipeline, so you know they will always have pieces. Plus noone knows how east and west line will be with knew alignment.
6A will be easier for the teams dropping down from playing 4A the last 4 years. You must’ve forgot Mt. Tabor won 3AA in 2020 before having to play up the last 4 years. They will be young next season but knowing what their jv has they’ll be competing for 6A titles the following 3 years. Northern will be one of the top 4 favorites next year to win it. They bring back majority of their team. Northern had Grimsley on the ropes half way through their game against them last season and lost their QB. Their playoff run didn’t go as planned because of losing the QB but they still made it to the third round without him playing 4A. Dudley will not be the same going forward. They will have a few pieces, that’s if Grimsley doesn’t pluck them away.
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Ashbrook and Kings Mountain both will be really good the next 3-4yrs. Both have a lot returning and both of their pipelines are loaded with talented kids.
Once Dudley’s OC left for his new job I started hearing immediately that this was going to hurt Dudley. At that time we heard some coaches/players may go with him but no one knew how many.
Mt. Tabor will be a force and I expect JM Robinson to be tough also. I think the 6A west playoffs will come down to who can stay healthy once the playoffs start.
Cardinal Gibbons opens the NCHSAA appeals meeting for realignment/reclassification this morning and asks to be moved up to 7A.
Zoom meeting SNAFU so far. Several smaller schools (N. Rowan, Thomas Jefferson, Mountain Island Charter, NCSSM-Morganton) are supposed to make appeals, but N. Rowan's representative says the link they were sent didn't work. None of the others seem to be present.
N. Rowan objects to their "football only" conference due to driving distances. Claims that it would be too hard to schedule schools for other sports non-conference if they don't play them in football (I call BS on this one, just play non-football playing charters, plenty around the area).
Thomas Jefferson up next. Same basic objections as N. Rowan.
Same for NCSSM-Morganton. They want to go back to the Western Highlands (non-football school).
Mountain Island Charter also objects to travel in their football only conference.
N. Rowan objects to their "football only" conference due to driving distances. Claims that it would be too hard to schedule schools for other sports non-conference if they don't play them in football (I call BS on this one, just play non-football playing charters, plenty around the area).
Thomas Jefferson up next. Same basic objections as N. Rowan.
Same for NCSSM-Morganton. They want to go back to the Western Highlands (non-football school).
Mountain Island Charter also objects to travel in their football only conference.
South Meck is up next, and they whine about drives of less than an hour, not much sympathy for that position.
Cherryville up now, they point out that not knowing what the playoff format will be makes it hard to propose alternatives. They want a larger conference, with more local schools, even if that means they are one of only a couple in the lower classification.
N. Durham (I think, they just said "Northern") notes that their numbers are declining, and they ask to be moved to a 5A/6A conference.
Fike objects that Northern Nash is the only 6A school in a 5A/6A conference. They propose an alternative for N. Nash to go to a 6A/7A conference.
Did you hear her answer a question with “Yep”? Very professional.
It didn't register at the time, but now that you mention it, yes, and it does reflect poorly.
Ashe up now and they also list several Wilkes County schools as agreeing with them. Ashe brings their superintendent in to speak for their proposal. They acknowledge that they will have to travel in whatever conference they'll be in, including a 2:15 drive in the proposed conference they're in. They apparently have a thorough proposal, but only the board members are privy to it (they mailed in a packet). N. Wilkes says they mailed in a proposal of at least 100 pages (they referenced "page 100" of their proposal).
I had to step away, so I've lost track of what's going on. They've gone to lunch, so I may pick it up then.
Good!! Hopefully, Charlotte Catholic will move up to 7A