Yes, dixon is a great running back. but hes gone. Our running game wont drop off, If it does it will be because we have developed a better passing game. Everything else that has improved( offensive line, better grasp of the offense, a qb taller than 5'7') will open up the running game more. Its not like were going from a rb with a rating of 95 to 35.
Chris Low examines our strongest/weakest units this season...
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In the thread that you linked I mentioned that I would run a pro-style offense with SOME SPREAD mixed in. And this was before we got Dan, and yet you accuse me of saying that I didn't think the spread would work?
I will admit I was wrong about Dixon not being a great outside runner. As far as the o-line, the biggest reason we were better in my opinion is because of our conditioning and we had guys playing in proper positions - namely Quentin Saulsberry, and we had better coaching. I remember being shocked at how big those guys had gotten by the spring game last year. That's one thing that pissed me off- was I saw how bad our conditioning was under Croom. WR's have been a big recriuting need, and still are even at this time. That is because we didn't have very many under Croom.
My whole point if you look at your link was that McCorvey and Croom were bad coaches, and therefore it would not matter what offense we ran. If you look at my comments in the very link you provided you will see that.
So, my question for you is this since you obviously didn't get my point:
Would our offense have been better if we ran the spread- let's go ahead and say an Urban Meyer type spread- IF Woody McCorvey and Sly Croom are calling the plays during the Croom era? It may have fit the personnel better, but I think those two were so incompetent we still would have struggled. They were simply bad coaches, and there's nothing that could be done about it- except fire them.
The biggest thing I took exception to- not in that thread- was you said that the West Coast offense doesn't work in college. That is very clearly wrong- Tennessee ran it last year, installed it in less than a year, and actually finished ahead of us in most offensive categories with Johnathan Crompton at QB. BYU ran it for years, Auburn ran it successfully, Stanford under Bill Walsh, Don Coryell at San Diego State, USC, UCLA, and Washington all run it now.
I will admit I was wrong about Dixon not being a great outside runner. As far as the o-line, the biggest reason we were better in my opinion is because of our conditioning and we had guys playing in proper positions - namely Quentin Saulsberry, and we had better coaching. I remember being shocked at how big those guys had gotten by the spring game last year. That's one thing that pissed me off- was I saw how bad our conditioning was under Croom. WR's have been a big recriuting need, and still are even at this time. That is because we didn't have very many under Croom.
My whole point if you look at your link was that McCorvey and Croom were bad coaches, and therefore it would not matter what offense we ran. If you look at my comments in the very link you provided you will see that.
So, my question for you is this since you obviously didn't get my point:
Would our offense have been better if we ran the spread- let's go ahead and say an Urban Meyer type spread- IF Woody McCorvey and Sly Croom are calling the plays during the Croom era? It may have fit the personnel better, but I think those two were so incompetent we still would have struggled. They were simply bad coaches, and there's nothing that could be done about it- except fire them.
The biggest thing I took exception to- not in that thread- was you said that the West Coast offense doesn't work in college. That is very clearly wrong- Tennessee ran it last year, installed it in less than a year, and actually finished ahead of us in most offensive categories with Johnathan Crompton at QB. BYU ran it for years, Auburn ran it successfully, Stanford under Bill Walsh, Don Coryell at San Diego State, USC, UCLA, and Washington all run it now.
c'mon Todd, that was just a thread from 2008- we had many more discussions on here with you saying you didnt think the Spread would work...you were wrong and admittingly, football is not your strongsuit...glad you have come around...
Woody and Crooms were ******- it doesnt matter what they ran- they couldnt competently coach any offense...
West Coast Offense? I still don't think it works in college. USC has struggled lately offensively. Why? They have gotten away from throwing the deep ball. Their West Coast offense that was successful included alot of deep throws, which is not really a part of the WCO....Stanford and Bill Walsh? That was long ago...so was BYU...
Tennessee was 60th in total offense in 2009- we were 65th....do you really think we have Tennessee's talent in Starkville? Wanna bet me Hardesty is drafted before Dixon? You think Crompton and Lee are equal players? Tennessee doesnt have offensive lineman better than us? Tennessee played at Fla and at Bammer and had a chance to win both- could we do that last year?
Auburn? How was Auburn's WCO after Cadillac, Ronnie Brown, and Jason Campbell left?
Woody and Crooms were ******- it doesnt matter what they ran- they couldnt competently coach any offense...
West Coast Offense? I still don't think it works in college. USC has struggled lately offensively. Why? They have gotten away from throwing the deep ball. Their West Coast offense that was successful included alot of deep throws, which is not really a part of the WCO....Stanford and Bill Walsh? That was long ago...so was BYU...
Tennessee was 60th in total offense in 2009- we were 65th....do you really think we have Tennessee's talent in Starkville? Wanna bet me Hardesty is drafted before Dixon? You think Crompton and Lee are equal players? Tennessee doesnt have offensive lineman better than us? Tennessee played at Fla and at Bammer and had a chance to win both- could we do that last year?
Auburn? How was Auburn's WCO after Cadillac, Ronnie Brown, and Jason Campbell left?
If I didn't think the spread would work, why did I type what I did in that very thread that you linked? Do you think someone stole my password or something?
That thread was from January of 2008- that was right after Ellis Johnson left, and was right after our Liberty Bowl appearance and almost a good year before we hired Dan Mullen.
As far as the WCO- The Air Coryell version is based off of vertical passing. The Bill Walsh version has more horizontal passing. It depends on what version you are talking about.
If you don't think the West Coast offense works in college, that's fine- that's your opinion, but I still think that it's ridiculous to say that it would never work when there are college teams currently running it successfully.
You also criticize people saying it's not the scheme, it's the players, and then on the same day mention that our offense would have been better without Tyson Lee. So, which is it? Is the scheme so superior that you can stick anyone in it and succeed? Or do better players make your scheme better? And also you mention Auburn and their trio of guys and their offense going down. You contradict yourself.
Tennessee was rebuilding last year. They had a losing season before they hired Lane Kiffen. Yeah, they have some people like Eric Berry, but they're still an average 7-6 football team with an easier schedule than us. Are they better that us? Yes. But I don't think they are that much better. We went toe to toe with Florida ourselves and were respectable against Alabama, admittedly at home. But at the same time, everytime we played on the road we showed up and put up a good fight with the exception of Auburn and maybe Arkansas. And in the Auburn game, we had the lead at one point in time, and Arkanas put up a late TD in garbage time. Also, UT got skulldrug by Ole Miss, and we all know what we did to Ole Miss. Where Hardestey gets drafted by the NFL is irrelevant. Who was the better player in college? AD. Unless you believe that Jimmy Clausen is a better player in college than Tim Tebow (I'm assuming that the Raiders don't draft Tim Tebow 8th which while I don't think it would happen, I wouldn't put it past them, if so I hate you Al Davis for the intents and purposes of this of this discussion). If we played UT last year on the road, I see no reason why we wouldn't be competitive with them.
Also, USC went away from the deep ball because they had a true freshman QB. I think they will go back to that very soon, though.
That thread was from January of 2008- that was right after Ellis Johnson left, and was right after our Liberty Bowl appearance and almost a good year before we hired Dan Mullen.
As far as the WCO- The Air Coryell version is based off of vertical passing. The Bill Walsh version has more horizontal passing. It depends on what version you are talking about.
If you don't think the West Coast offense works in college, that's fine- that's your opinion, but I still think that it's ridiculous to say that it would never work when there are college teams currently running it successfully.
You also criticize people saying it's not the scheme, it's the players, and then on the same day mention that our offense would have been better without Tyson Lee. So, which is it? Is the scheme so superior that you can stick anyone in it and succeed? Or do better players make your scheme better? And also you mention Auburn and their trio of guys and their offense going down. You contradict yourself.
Tennessee was rebuilding last year. They had a losing season before they hired Lane Kiffen. Yeah, they have some people like Eric Berry, but they're still an average 7-6 football team with an easier schedule than us. Are they better that us? Yes. But I don't think they are that much better. We went toe to toe with Florida ourselves and were respectable against Alabama, admittedly at home. But at the same time, everytime we played on the road we showed up and put up a good fight with the exception of Auburn and maybe Arkansas. And in the Auburn game, we had the lead at one point in time, and Arkanas put up a late TD in garbage time. Also, UT got skulldrug by Ole Miss, and we all know what we did to Ole Miss. Where Hardestey gets drafted by the NFL is irrelevant. Who was the better player in college? AD. Unless you believe that Jimmy Clausen is a better player in college than Tim Tebow (I'm assuming that the Raiders don't draft Tim Tebow 8th which while I don't think it would happen, I wouldn't put it past them, if so I hate you Al Davis for the intents and purposes of this of this discussion). If we played UT last year on the road, I see no reason why we wouldn't be competitive with them.
Also, USC went away from the deep ball because they had a true freshman QB. I think they will go back to that very soon, though.
"West Coast Offense? I still don't think it works in college. USC has
struggled lately offensively." -Coach 34
They struggled for one season running the west coast offense, if you can even call it a struggle. They averaged almost 400 ypg and were still the 55th ranked offense in the country. Granted that is down from USC's standards, but in 2008 they were 11th in total offense. If you go back to 2005, they were the #1 offense. The reason they fell off a little last year is because they were breaking in a true freshman QB in Matt Barkley, not because the west coast doesn't work. They also lost their starting tailback in Stafon Johnson to a freak workout accident. That being said, the west coast offense works if you have the right personnel to run it. Now don't get me wrong, I love throwing the ball, and the spread is the best thing that's happened to our offense in a while. But to say the west coast offense doesn't work period is ridiculous.
***And in 2005 (the year after Williams, Brown, and Campbell were all gone), Auburn finished 37th in total offense, including the #25 rushing offense with Kenny Irons at tailback and won a share of the SEC Western division title. Just saying.
struggled lately offensively." -Coach 34
They struggled for one season running the west coast offense, if you can even call it a struggle. They averaged almost 400 ypg and were still the 55th ranked offense in the country. Granted that is down from USC's standards, but in 2008 they were 11th in total offense. If you go back to 2005, they were the #1 offense. The reason they fell off a little last year is because they were breaking in a true freshman QB in Matt Barkley, not because the west coast doesn't work. They also lost their starting tailback in Stafon Johnson to a freak workout accident. That being said, the west coast offense works if you have the right personnel to run it. Now don't get me wrong, I love throwing the ball, and the spread is the best thing that's happened to our offense in a while. But to say the west coast offense doesn't work period is ridiculous.
***And in 2005 (the year after Williams, Brown, and Campbell were all gone), Auburn finished 37th in total offense, including the #25 rushing offense with Kenny Irons at tailback and won a share of the SEC Western division title. Just saying.
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and ina way it makes sense, because Dixon was never just stand out in Croom's offense, but then again Croom held alot of guys back. But yet, didn't hold Norwood back. Makes you scratch your head - was Dixon really better than Norwood? I personally don't think so.
But, to credit all of Dixon's success this year to the spread is inaccurate. Mullen lit a fire under him, he worked harder, lost weight, etc. (so they say). And he made the plays, not the system. So, unless we find somebody who can replicate Dixon's yards, yes we will miss him. To say otherwise is kinda sheepish. The offense won't completely stall, but we'll miss him. Only way we won't is if the current running backs come out and kick ***, which hopefully they will.
Very dumb argument. I see what you're saying, but we're talking about the SEC's best running back last year and an NFL pick. Come on.
But, to credit all of Dixon's success this year to the spread is inaccurate. Mullen lit a fire under him, he worked harder, lost weight, etc. (so they say). And he made the plays, not the system. So, unless we find somebody who can replicate Dixon's yards, yes we will miss him. To say otherwise is kinda sheepish. The offense won't completely stall, but we'll miss him. Only way we won't is if the current running backs come out and kick ***, which hopefully they will.
Very dumb argument. I see what you're saying, but we're talking about the SEC's best running back last year and an NFL pick. Come on.
Everyone who liked to see a runningback hot afraid to run the ball should have liked AD last year and should miss him. One thing I know about Mullen is that he will built the offense around the team's strong players. I like the guys we have coming along this year and fully expect to see a different offensive look on the field. For the first time in a long time, we should be able to throw the ball to guys who have teh telent to catch it. We wont have AD, but we will have (four?) guys who can run, each differently, but all of them capable of keeping the Defense honest. I like double threats.
IMO BothQBs can throw although I think Russell, if not in September, then by Mid October will be the better passer. I know that Relf can run as well as anyone, but I think Russell will surprise folks when he gets in situations where he must run.Neither one of these guys strike me as beingreckless and we shoudl have a line that will protect them better than last year. My biggest hopes lie with our receivers. I can't remember when I thought we had more than one receiver who could catch the ball and we are getting close to that blessing.
IMO BothQBs can throw although I think Russell, if not in September, then by Mid October will be the better passer. I know that Relf can run as well as anyone, but I think Russell will surprise folks when he gets in situations where he must run.Neither one of these guys strike me as beingreckless and we shoudl have a line that will protect them better than last year. My biggest hopes lie with our receivers. I can't remember when I thought we had more than one receiver who could catch the ball and we are getting close to that blessing.
I agree with is. But I'll still miss Boobie, mayne.Coach34 said:
I looked at some UF film from when Mullen ran Percy Harvin between the tackles for long touchdowns. They pretty much did what Coach34 described. Spread 'em out, keep 'em honest, then get a hat on everybody long enough for Percy to get to the 2nd level and....touchdown.
Harvin is a great player, but those between the tackle long runs of his were as much about the aforementioned scheme & execution than blazing speed from Percy.
and I'll use pain's NCAA football ratings to explain it...
Why we won't miss a beat on offense by Coach34:
2009 MSU offense
QB- 59 rating
RB- 91 rating
WR- 72 rating
OL- 81 rating
2010 MSU offense:
QB- 71 rating
RB- 85 rating
WR- 79 rating
OL- 86 rating
All of the other areas of our offense being improved in 2010 will offset the small drop in talent at RB, making it unoticeable.
I can't explain it anymore simply than that
Why we won't miss a beat on offense by Coach34:
2009 MSU offense
QB- 59 rating
RB- 91 rating
WR- 72 rating
OL- 81 rating
2010 MSU offense:
QB- 71 rating
RB- 85 rating
WR- 79 rating
OL- 86 rating
All of the other areas of our offense being improved in 2010 will offset the small drop in talent at RB, making it unoticeable.
I can't explain it anymore simply than that