Cleveland stumping for Kinnison
- Thread starter saddawg
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First it was Polk with the continuity b.s. Now, rick cleveland wants to be an a.d. Dear Rick, you write for the clarion ledger, which accidentally is probably the bottom of the barrel in the country for state papers. Work on getting a job with a real paper, or get a job as a.d. at Richton H.S. and prove your worth there. I get so tired of all these other bastads throwing their two cents in on who we should hire. For once in my life, can we not at least be allowed to do things in a different way, maybe a correct way? Would that be asking too much? <17> me!</p>
Mike Kinnison is an excellent baseball coach no matter what level he is coaching at right now. His teams at the DII level win a heck of a lot more than they lose and of course he does have a Div. II National Championship. Can he coach baseball at the Division I level? There is no question about that. The man can do the job on the field!
What Kinnison could bring to Mississippi State is an attitude that we have not had in a long time. Losing is unacceptable to him. Losing is unacceptable to his players. The players are well coached and they are responsible for their actions on the field. If they screw up, they will hear about it. They will hear about it when they do it, not in a meeting a day after it happens. There is NO "thats baseball" in his vocabulary. He instills an attitude of determination in his players that is unmatched by any other coach I have ever been around.
Can he recruit at MSU. I think he would be successful in bringing in top talent to Starkville. He brings in top DII talent to Cleveland and he also usually has several players who could have been playing at Division I schools. Dee Haynes (AAA), Jud Thigpen (AAA), Eli Whiteside (Major Leaguer), and many many others like Casey Myrick, Brian Rea (Jeffery's older brother), Edwin Maysonette, Eric Patten, etc. could have played at the Division I level because of the intense work ethic that Coach Kinnison instilled in these players. But most of all, he gets every ounce of talent out of the players that he has. Imagine if that had happened at Mississippi State in the past!!!!
Kinnison's coaching methods are not for everyplayer. He will be the first to tell you that. The primadonnas and the selfish type players will not last under his system. This has been proven at Delta State. Either you work hard, play hard, and are totally committed to the TEAM or else you are gone. Its that simple. Those who make it under him become great players who can produce under pressure and most of them love him when they leave Cleveland. Those stories you hear about how much of an *** he can be, usually comes from the players and their families of those who could not take it or did not put out the effort.
I would be happy if MSU would hire Mike Kinnison, however, I don't know that our administration will have the guts to hire him just because he has only been at the Division II level. Ever heard of a guy named Wayne Graham? He was a Junior College head coach before taking the job at Rice. Seems to have worked out pretty well for Rice.
My finalist for the job would be John Cohen (I could write just as much positive about Cohen as I just did about Kinnison), Mike Kinnison, Rich Hill University of San Diego (may be far fetched to get him to Starkville, but the man can coach...USD's facilities are horrible, he is 44 years old and has been a head coach for 20 years...he may be willing to take the jump to the SEC), Dan McDonnell (His Ole Miss past is something I don't like, but his recruiting and success at Louisville is impressive) and Steve Smith (MSU ties, and has taken Baylor to the CWS). As far as Division I assistants, Erik Bakich at Vanderbilt and Chad Holbrook at North Carolina are worthy of consideration.
And now my dream choice....before you jump on me, I know there is no way to get him, but I think George Horton, now at Oregon is the best coach in college baseball. If you haven't seen his teams play in person, you may not have seen how involved he is in every aspect of the game. His players come off the field and come directly to him before they hit. They play hard until the last out and they are always tough at the plate, on the mound, and play great defense. It was amazing to watch when I got to see them play a couple of years ago.
What Kinnison could bring to Mississippi State is an attitude that we have not had in a long time. Losing is unacceptable to him. Losing is unacceptable to his players. The players are well coached and they are responsible for their actions on the field. If they screw up, they will hear about it. They will hear about it when they do it, not in a meeting a day after it happens. There is NO "thats baseball" in his vocabulary. He instills an attitude of determination in his players that is unmatched by any other coach I have ever been around.
Can he recruit at MSU. I think he would be successful in bringing in top talent to Starkville. He brings in top DII talent to Cleveland and he also usually has several players who could have been playing at Division I schools. Dee Haynes (AAA), Jud Thigpen (AAA), Eli Whiteside (Major Leaguer), and many many others like Casey Myrick, Brian Rea (Jeffery's older brother), Edwin Maysonette, Eric Patten, etc. could have played at the Division I level because of the intense work ethic that Coach Kinnison instilled in these players. But most of all, he gets every ounce of talent out of the players that he has. Imagine if that had happened at Mississippi State in the past!!!!
Kinnison's coaching methods are not for everyplayer. He will be the first to tell you that. The primadonnas and the selfish type players will not last under his system. This has been proven at Delta State. Either you work hard, play hard, and are totally committed to the TEAM or else you are gone. Its that simple. Those who make it under him become great players who can produce under pressure and most of them love him when they leave Cleveland. Those stories you hear about how much of an *** he can be, usually comes from the players and their families of those who could not take it or did not put out the effort.
I would be happy if MSU would hire Mike Kinnison, however, I don't know that our administration will have the guts to hire him just because he has only been at the Division II level. Ever heard of a guy named Wayne Graham? He was a Junior College head coach before taking the job at Rice. Seems to have worked out pretty well for Rice.
My finalist for the job would be John Cohen (I could write just as much positive about Cohen as I just did about Kinnison), Mike Kinnison, Rich Hill University of San Diego (may be far fetched to get him to Starkville, but the man can coach...USD's facilities are horrible, he is 44 years old and has been a head coach for 20 years...he may be willing to take the jump to the SEC), Dan McDonnell (His Ole Miss past is something I don't like, but his recruiting and success at Louisville is impressive) and Steve Smith (MSU ties, and has taken Baylor to the CWS). As far as Division I assistants, Erik Bakich at Vanderbilt and Chad Holbrook at North Carolina are worthy of consideration.
And now my dream choice....before you jump on me, I know there is no way to get him, but I think George Horton, now at Oregon is the best coach in college baseball. If you haven't seen his teams play in person, you may not have seen how involved he is in every aspect of the game. His players come off the field and come directly to him before they hit. They play hard until the last out and they are always tough at the plate, on the mound, and play great defense. It was amazing to watch when I got to see them play a couple of years ago.
I had a friend play for him and he claims he will either make you quit or get the best out of you every day. I think that's the kind of coach most people around here are looking for after Polk is gone. He's an excellent coach, knows the game, and is never out worked. His .787 win % in his 13 years as HC at DSU (best among active NCAA coaches at any level) pretty much sums him up.
especially about Kinnison. You are dead on with that. And I still laugh about Dee Haynes. I coached Dee as 9th and 10th grader and we had a great relationship. Delta St offered him a scholly and State wanted him to walk on. It was his dream to play for State, having attended baseball camp many times as a kid. I told him he should be offended by the snub State was giving him and to go play for Kinnsion, that he wouldnt regret it. And after posting one the best seasons in D-II history with 26 HR and 92 RBI's in 99, he didnt. He's always said he made the right choice and loves Kinnison to this day
As far as coaches go, there is a list of probably 10 guys we could possibly get that would be great coaches. I really feel like Byrne is going to do an extensive search and make a great choice for us.
As far as coaches go, there is a list of probably 10 guys we could possibly get that would be great coaches. I really feel like Byrne is going to do an extensive search and make a great choice for us.
if we do hire Kennison or a coach anywhere near his intensity level? 75% of our "good boys" would hit the bricks and the remaining ones would be relegated to dugout sweepers. We would not recognize the 2009 Diamond Dawgs. And that would be just fine with me.
skydawg1 said:
</p>That would be totally fine with me.........a historical example could be when Andy Lopez took over in Florida. His first year was 1995, at the end of that season he dumped almost his entire roster. I think he kept something like 6 players and brought in almost an intire new team of highly touted recruits and JUCO transfers. The result...they played in the 1996 College World Series.
as does bob stoops. (sure, it's football, and tressel was in 1-AA, but you get the point.)
kinnison would be a very interesting choice. i still think i would prefer cohen, but it could be a tight race between the top few candidates. kinnison should definitely get a look, but success at the D1 level would have to figure in somewhere, and could be a key determining factor.
kinnison would be a very interesting choice. i still think i would prefer cohen, but it could be a tight race between the top few candidates. kinnison should definitely get a look, but success at the D1 level would have to figure in somewhere, and could be a key determining factor.
i would think that a poster named "RHobbs9" would certainly be an expert on baseball. i'd be interested to see what you think about each of the coaches you have listed as finalists. maybe give us a rundown when you have the time.
the oregon guy is throwing me off a little, but if he's as good as you say, and with their investment in the baseball program, they'll be VERY good in the near future. </p>
the oregon guy is throwing me off a little, but if he's as good as you say, and with their investment in the baseball program, they'll be VERY good in the near future. </p>
lawdawg02 said:
The Oregon Guy....is George Horton, former head coach at Cal State Fullerton. College World Series Champions in 2004, he took over the program when Auggie left to go to Texas in 1996, his career record is 452-187-1... (.706 winning percentage)....he got offered big bucks to start the program at Oregon. They have not fielded a team in 26 years.
</p>
have you ever met the guy? I was around him for 2 years at madison central....complete douchebag.....the teams hated him in football and baseball.....they new him as a no nonsense coach who couldnt relate to any human being under the age of 50......Div II? Yes.....why? because as a coach you recruit the leftovers from Div I who were the leftovers from the draft.....basically offer 20 schollys to the leftovers of the leftovers and get a decent Div II team, whereas, Kennison, being a good coach, can make these guys into Div II winners....
now, with that being said......with his douchebag, robotic, ******* personality, he wouldnt be able to stand in the women's line bathroom at an SEC school.....although he is probably as good a coach as any other SEC coach, you have to have more than one skill set to be an SEC coach, and he aint got it....
Coach + Salesman + Good alumni support an facilites = hope for success.....without all three, you have no hope, and with Kennison, we would have no hope
D
now, with that being said......with his douchebag, robotic, ******* personality, he wouldnt be able to stand in the women's line bathroom at an SEC school.....although he is probably as good a coach as any other SEC coach, you have to have more than one skill set to be an SEC coach, and he aint got it....
Coach + Salesman + Good alumni support an facilites = hope for success.....without all three, you have no hope, and with Kennison, we would have no hope
D
sixpackmafia said:
that even though he is as good as any coach in the SEC in your opinion that we wouldn't succeed because he's an *******?</p>
basically what i was thinking as well Todd.....hell if he wins that takes care of the latter two in his three part formula for success.......i dont care if the guy is the biggest ******* in the SEC as long as the SOB wins games and gets us to Omaha more frequently than weve been....
I have said that Kennison's intensity has gotten him into trouble. However, I understand that in college ball he has been able to channel that desire to win in a positive direction and has been free of some of the problems of his high school coaching career. The guy flat out knows the game and can flat out coach.
So, which part are you saying he wouldn't have?
So, which part are you saying he wouldn't have?
sixpackmafia said:
Lot's of very successful Div. I coaches are total douchebags. I really don't give a **** if our players like our coach or hate him. Just as long as they win for him. And that's one thing Mike Kinneson's players have ALWAYS done for him. Or maybe they haven't done it for him. I really don't give a **** about that either. The fact is they have always won and won big. And that's what I want for MSU.
I'm really sick and damn tired of having our players love a coach who doesn't push them to win and coddles them when they lose. We've had that for 14 of the last 18 years and that's too damn long.</p>
zero personality......seriously, have any of you ever tried to have a conversation with the guy?......like talking to a door knob.....my point is that with that kind of personality, how the hell could he recruit? he couldnt.....at least in the SEC.....
remember in the movie dumb and dumber, when jim carrey walks out of the 7 eleven and tries to have a conversation.....' oh, big gulps huh guys?! well, see ya later'....that kind of uncomfortble silence in conversations....
to recruit, i think you have to be a little bit more than just a good damn coach, and the way most schools are building new facilites, you are gonna need more than that to sell to a recruit....
anyway, that was back in the early mid 90s, and maybe he all of a sudden got a personality...i dont know.....there are better coaches available that would be willing to come to state
D
remember in the movie dumb and dumber, when jim carrey walks out of the 7 eleven and tries to have a conversation.....' oh, big gulps huh guys?! well, see ya later'....that kind of uncomfortble silence in conversations....
to recruit, i think you have to be a little bit more than just a good damn coach, and the way most schools are building new facilites, you are gonna need more than that to sell to a recruit....
anyway, that was back in the early mid 90s, and maybe he all of a sudden got a personality...i dont know.....there are better coaches available that would be willing to come to state
D
8Dog said:
</p> was that some girl at Prep smarted off to him and he threw an overhead projector at her.
Probably rumor, but maybe not.
Although I do note that now he's gone from being a total douchebag and ******* to just being bland with no personality. The fact is he recruits players who are good enough to win championships. And in many cases, he recruits better players to play Div. II ball in Cleveland than Ron Polk recruits to play SEC ball in one of the best ballparks in the country. Plenty of coaches don't have much personality. It comes from them not ever spending any time in the real world because the only world they know is the sport they coach. Nobody's accused Les Miles of having a great personality, but he sure won a national championship. And he doesn't have any problem recruiting great players. I can pretty much promise you that recruiting would take a pretty immediate upturn if Kennison were hired.
it's not like we were best friends or anything like that, but I have talked to him. He is VERY matter of fact.
Honestly, I thought Rosamond was a bigger ******* than him, but that's just me.
Anyway, as far as recruiting, I don't think that Kinneson wouldn't have to do all of it. Look at Bianco and McDonnell at Ole Miss. I'm not taking a shot at Bianco, I do think that he is a good coach (clarification for Ole Miss fans) but the fact is that McDonnell did most of the recruiting there. Same thing at MSU- Raffo and McNickle do the recruiting. And if Kinneson were hired, he would have someone do most of the recruiting legwork.
Honestly, I thought Rosamond was a bigger ******* than him, but that's just me.
Anyway, as far as recruiting, I don't think that Kinneson wouldn't have to do all of it. Look at Bianco and McDonnell at Ole Miss. I'm not taking a shot at Bianco, I do think that he is a good coach (clarification for Ole Miss fans) but the fact is that McDonnell did most of the recruiting there. Same thing at MSU- Raffo and McNickle do the recruiting. And if Kinneson were hired, he would have someone do most of the recruiting legwork.
I think he is free of the problems because he changed a little. Trust me. It wasn't just parents. The guy crossed the line.
But, the issues he had were pretty well along those lines. Like I said, I think that is behind him. For one thing, if it weren't, some college kid would have probably beaten the **** out of him by now.
put words in your mouth, but could you be saying that he is arrogant? My experience with him goes back pretty far. And I found him arrogant. I will say that it goes so far back that I have no idea if my perception was accurate.
I knew the guy for two years at MC, 93-95, spent last couple of hours of the day at the field house, and needless to say, he was there.....I was not buddy buddy with him, but what time i spent talking to him i could only imagine sitting across from him listening him trying to recruit me to college versus all the other colorful personalities in the SEC.....arrogant? yeah, you could say so....he fits the mold as *******, arrogant, and douchebag, but that is not what i think would make him fail as an sec coach.....i just dont think he could recruit worth a **** with his doorknob personality......there are plenty of ******* coaches, its the ones that can recruit that seem to win....just my 2 cents though....i just know he had no respect at JP or MC and he had one hellavu doormat personality
D
D
sixpackmafia said:
</p>Talk about blowing your credibility......Coach Kinnison was the assistant coach at Delta State for the 1994, 1995, and 1996 seasons. So I find it hard to believe that you spent time with him at Madison Central in 94 and 95. And I am pretty sure he was at DSU in the fall of 93. So your two years of being around him suddenly has come down to possibly one semester in the spring of 93. 15 freaking years ago!!!
sixpackmafia said:
</p>
I don't doubt your experience with Kinneson, but I do think that your experience with him underscores why it is important that we hire someone with experience. 15 years ago, Kinneson may have been a horrible recruiter/coach at the SEC level, but at Delta State, he has had to learn how to do things like recruit, handle people and that sort of thing. He has learned enough in those 15 years to take a team to a NC.</p>
sixpackmafia said:
</p>Me get my facts right??? Ha Ha...I am the one with the facts that are correct.......YOU were the one that said you were with him from 93 to 95 at MC....now you are coming back with 91-95. My facts are 100% correct, he was at DSU for the 94 and 95 seasons. I never said he was not at MC, I stated the fact that he was NOT at MC from 93 to 95 like YOU said.