Coaching question

[Viennacock]

We can only fire one men's coach over the next 24 months. Who is going and who is staying and why? I know many of you want to say all three but only choose one.

Most of you want Paris gone and I get it. That said, many of you wanted Beamer gone also.

Baseball would be my choice. Biggest disappointment over the last 10+ years. Queens college? Army?

 

[Skuddy]

Baseball is the sport I played and the reason I am a gamecock fan. I am in disbelief.

 

[1vagamecock]

Both coaches are so historically bad, I couldn't possibly decide.

 

[Viennacock]

Both coaches are so historically bad, I couldn't possibly decide.

Both coach historically bad? Have you followed our basketball team over the past 40 years? We have a 52.7% win percentage before L.P. A 49% with L.P. He is very close to the average.

Now, go compare baseball for the last 40 years vs current coach.

 

[1vagamecock]

Both coach historically bad? Have you followed our basketball team over the past 40 years? We have a 52.7% win percentage before L.P. A 49% with L.P. He is very close to the average.

Now, go compare baseball for the last 40 years vs current coach.

If Paris had not beaten Mississippi State his record would have been identical to Horns so yes historically bad.

 

[Viennacock]

If Paris had not beaten Mississippi State his record would have been identical to Horns so yes historically bad.

You don't understand our basketball history over the last 40 years vs our baseball history.

 

[Cockofdawn]

If my hands were tied and a GUN to my head, This miserable *** Basball coach, reasoning..... Never been good i last few decades with exception of one Krazy season a final four. Baseball was Back To Back National championships and a staple at the World Series, was on the brink of "Dynasty Talk"!!

 

[Lurker123]

At this point, it just sounds like a financial choice between the three.

Who has the lowest buyout?

 

[18IsTheMan]

Both coach historically bad? Have you followed our basketball team over the past 40 years? We have a 52.7% win percentage before L.P. A 49% with L.P. He is very close to the average.

Now, go compare baseball for the last 40 years vs current coach.

If Paris had not beaten Mississippi State his record would have been identical to Horns so yes historically bad.

Yes, Paris' win percentage is worse than our historical average, so it's fair to say he's historically bad.

Though our basketball history is not illustrious, he is, at the very least, in the conversation for worst coach we've ever had. If you had to invite 4 former coaches for a ceremony to declare the worst ever, he'd be invited.

Historically bad does not necessarily mean he's statistically the worst ever. Simply that he's among the absolute worst we've had.

However, I'd say he does qualify for historically bad given that he's had two NBA draft picks on his teams. NBA draft picks are as rare as hen's teeth around here. Even worse, he had an NBA lottery pick on last year's 2-16 SEC team. He has pissed away some good talent. That sets him apart from our other worst coaches.

 

[Chestercock1]

Flip a coin ....... That is the method we used to hire them!

 

[Harvard Gamecock]

I can't determine if there is a truly right or wrong answer to the question.

Since the MBB regular season will be over in 2 weeks, I nominate Paris to be fired first and then move on from there.
With that said, not only will I not be surprised if he is not fired, I'm actually expecting SC to retain his services for at least one more year.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I guess I'd say start with the higher revenue sport. If we bring Lamont back next year, the result is almost all but guaranteed to be a failure. Enthusiasm for MBB is already in the crapper....and about 3/4 of the way down the siphon. I have kept up with it somewhat this year, mostly out of a morbid curiosity to see how bad we could be. I have not watched one single second of a game this year. I would be even less interested next year. Doubt I'd even bother checking the scores.

 

[RevRuss]

BB - will retire graciously. MBB - big payout, but only if we can acquire better coach with better staff, something we haven't done since Frank McGuire (it's really bad when you have to back to 1970's). I don't understand why anyone would want to fire Beamer. Could be the next Nick Sabin - I just got my garnet colored glasses polished.

 

[FootballLVR]

Beamer. I know he really "wants to be here" but he is not the answer. I know he hired a bunch of new assistants but I have yet to see him consistently make it happen on the field. To make things worse, he is a pouting petulant child when things don't go his way. Football rules the day. Otherwise, we are a women's basketball school.

 

[18IsTheMan]

BB - will retire graciously. MBB - big payout, but only if we can acquire better coach with better staff, something we haven't done since Frank McGuire (it's really bad when you have to back to 1970's). I don't understand why anyone would want to fire Beamer. Could be the next Nick Sabin - I just got my garnet colored glasses polished.

Good point about Mainieri. He'll be nearly 69 when this season is done. If it goes how it's looking, I can't see why he'd want to come back next year.

 

[Dabo's Weenie]

The only way they fire Lamont is if they have a prior deal worked out with Steve Newton for an encore.

This would follow the established trend of racing to the bottom with coaching hires.

 

[Piscis]

I'd say get rid of Beamer. Baseball is going to take care of itself. Mainieri is going to retire on his own in the next couple of years, so that will be a coach change that costs nothing. MBB is an afterthought sport at SC, there is no reason to spend millions to get rid of Paris so a new coach can be paid millions to make it a better performing afterthought.

Beamer is a clown, Dabo without the championships or the wins. He acts like an emotional head case and, even if things get somewhat better, football is not going to get to upper 1/4 of the SEC with Beamer at the helm. Football is the premier sport, it should at least be treated that way.

On the other hand, SC can always adopt the "men's sports aren't really that important" attitude and hang on to all three and rely on the fans to continue to send in the money for mediocre results. This seems to be the Carolina Way.

 

[adcoop]

I supported giving Paris a chance. However, it has been 4 years and he is generated zero interest in the program. It's one thing to be bad. It's another to be bad and boring. If I don't want to watch you play basketball, you are not going to find too many people on this planet that are going to waste their time. I was at the Florida game when the students were walking out before halftime. I know the students do this too with football, but not that bad. It's over for Paris here. Wish him well. At least with Beamer, you have seen enough to believe that he might develop into a good coach in time. He has had Two Good Years, A So-So Year, and Two Bad ones. His records through 5 Years is 33-30. Steve Spurriers record through 5 Years was 35-28. I think that should buy him some time.

 

[BriceIsBest]

I'd say get rid of Beamer. Baseball is going to take care of itself. Mainieri is going to retire on his own in the next couple of years, so that will be a coach change that costs nothing. MBB is an afterthought sport at SC, there is no reason to spend millions to get rid of Paris so a new coach can be paid millions to make it a better performing afterthought.

Beamer is a clown, Dabo without the championships or the wins. He acts like an emotional head case and, even if things get somewhat better, football is not going to get to upper 1/4 of the SEC with Beamer at the helm. Football is the premier sport, it should at least be treated that way.

On the other hand, SC can always adopt the "men's sports aren't really that important" attitude and hang on to all three and rely on the fans to continue to send in the money for mediocre results. This seems to be the Carolina Way.

How many ships did Dabo have in 2014? An ACC title against a who’s not of CFB maybe… but that’s it. Dabo got it rolling right after that period tho. 2015-2020 was a helluca a six year run

 

[18IsTheMan]

I supported giving Paris a chance. However, it has been 4 years and he is generated zero interest in the program. It's one thing to be bad. It's another to be bad and boring. If I don't want to watch you play basketball, you are not going to find too many people on this planet that are going to waste their time. I was at the Florida game when the students were walking out before halftime. I know the students do this too with football, but not that bad. It's over for Paris here. Wish him well. At least with Beamer, you have seen enough to believe that he might develop into a good coach in time. He has had Two Good Years, A So-So Year, and Two Bad ones. His records through 5 Years is 33-30. Steve Spurriers record through 5 Years was 35-28. I think that should buy him some time.

Fan interest is a major factor. Or should be. If retaining Paris, we'd have to make a MAJOR splash in the portal to get fans interested next year. I'm talking at least 2 absolute no-brainer starters....who would start anywhere. Under-the-radar guys won't do it for fan interest.

 

[Go Gamecocks]

Hire Ray!

 

[will110]

I would fire Lamont Paris over Mainieri for several reasons. First, he's had the most time and is terrible. Second, MBB is supposed to be a revenue sport. Finally, Paul Mainieri might decide to retire on his own without being fired considering his age and his previous stint at LSU.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Second, MBB is supposed to be a revenue sport.

Yep. Baseball loses money. I know we have historically been good at baseball and have sentimental pull there, but it's just not much of a revenue generator. For the '23-'24 season, football profited $31 million. MBB profited $3.5 million. Every other sport lost money.

 

[atl-cock]

Both coaches are so historically bad, I couldn't possibly decide.

Historically bad? I don't think so.

But without a doubt, this is the most perverse coaching dilemma I have ever seen.

 

[atl-cock]

If Paris had not beaten Mississippi State his record would have been identical to Horns so yes historically bad.

You don't understand our basketball history over the last 40 years vs our baseball history.

I agree with Viennacock. But we're focusing on historically bad coaches. Historically, neither coach is bad, but it appears to me that neither is working out.

I would look to replace Paris first, since he's had more time. But that's not saying much. Anybody who favours replacing Manieri first I won't argue, but I'd a reason provided.

 

[atl-cock]

Yes, Paris' win percentage is worse than our historical average, so it's fair to say he's historically bad.

Though our basketball history is not illustrious, he is, at the very least, in the conversation for worst coach we've ever had. If you had to invite 4 former coaches for a ceremony to declare the worst ever, he'd be invited.

Historically bad does not necessarily mean he's statistically the worst ever. Simply that he's among the absolute worst we've had.

However, I'd say he does qualify for historically bad given that he's had two NBA draft picks on his teams. NBA draft picks are as rare as hen's teeth around here. Even worse, he had an NBA lottery pick on last year's 2-16 SEC team. He has pissed away some good talent. That sets him apart from our other worst coaches.

He had success elsewhere. Now if you are limiting histrorically bad to the record while at USC, that's a slightly different discussion.

 

[atl-cock]

I guess I'd say start with the higher revenue sport. If we bring Lamont back next year, the result is almost all but guaranteed to be a failure. Enthusiasm for MBB is already in the crapper....and about 3/4 of the way down the siphon. I have kept up with it somewhat this year, mostly out of a morbid curiosity to see how bad we could be. I have not watched one single second of a game this year. I would be even less interested next year. Doubt I'd even bother checking the scores.

I agree with you on this, except I think I may have watched 10 seconds of a MBB game so far this season.

I get irked when streaming WNKT 107.5 The Game on Thursdays expecting to hear WBB play-by-play and I get a MBB call-in show. Grrrrrr.

 

[atl-cock]

I'd say get rid of Beamer. Baseball is going to take care of itself. Mainieri is going to retire on his own in the next couple of years, so that will be a coach change that costs nothing. MBB is an afterthought sport at SC, there is no reason to spend millions to get rid of Paris so a new coach can be paid millions to make it a better performing afterthought.

Beamer is a clown, Dabo without the championships or the wins. He acts like an emotional head case and, even if things get somewhat better, football is not going to get to upper 1/4 of the SEC with Beamer at the helm. Football is the premier sport, it should at least be treated that way.

On the other hand, SC can always adopt the "men's sports aren't really that important" attitude and hang on to all three and rely on the fans to continue to send in the money for mediocre results. This seems to be the Carolina Way.

Football is currently treated as the premier sport. I think NIL is going to make it even harder to compete on the SEC gridiron.

 

[atl-cock]

Yep. Baseball loses money. I know we have historically been good at baseball and have sentimental pull there, but it's just not much of a revenue generator. For the '23-'24 season, football profited $31 million. MBB profited $3.5 million. Every other sport lost money.

Historically, baseball come closer to breaking even than other "non-revenue" sports.

 

[StickyBandit]

This scenario is ridiculous. We don’t know how Beamer is going to do. We have two coaches who are performing incredibly poorly. Paris should be fired at the end of the season. Mainieri will likely be fired at the end of the season also. If I had to pick one out of them it would be Paris, but I see no world in which both aren’t gone.

 

[StickyBandit]

Both coach historically bad? Have you followed our basketball team over the past 40 years? We have a 52.7% win percentage before L.P. A 49% with L.P. He is very close to the average.

Now, go compare baseball for the last 40 years vs current coach.

Basketball is more important to get right compared to baseball from a financial standpoint.

 

[Piscis]

How many ships did Dabo have in 2014? An ACC title against a who’s not of CFB maybe… but that’s it. Dabo got it rolling right after that period tho. 2015-2020 was a helluca a six year run

In 2014 Dabo had one more championship than Beamer has (and an equal number to the total South Carolina football has). He was 4-3 in bowls and 57-24 overall. He had 4 10 or better win seasons and 1 9 win season. In the four seasons leading up to 2015, he had 10,11,11 and 10 win seasons. His worst season was 6-7 in 2010. Until this past season, he had won 9 or more games for 14 seasons in a row.

Nobody around here likes Dabo or Clemson, but trying to diminish his record to make Beamer look better isn't going to work.

 

[Lurker123]

If I had to pick one out of them it would be Paris, but I see no world in which both aren’t gone.

Prepare to be disappointed, if rumors are true.

Paris returns with additional NIL funds. Wonder where they take away those funds from?

 

[Viennacock]

Basketball is more important to get right compared to baseball from a financial standpoint.

True, but do you want to take away football NIL $$'s and resources to try to make a few more $$'s on basketball? It may make sense to focus as much NIL $'s as possible on football. Likely the best ROI.

 

[Cockofdawn]

Well I am not so concerned about the revenue as a fan, I say Baseball has been our one sport, men’s, that has accomplished anything. At least get that one back!

 

[Jonesz21]

Both coach historically bad? Have you followed our basketball team over the past 40 years? We have a 52.7% win percentage before L.P. A 49% with L.P. He is very close to the average.

Now, go compare baseball for the last 40 years vs current coach.

Paris makes 4 million a year. I’m sure we can hire a slightly less than .500 win percentage coach for half that

 

[Viennacock]

Paris makes 4 million a year. I’m sure we can hire a slightly less than .500 win percentage coach for half that

We are going to pay market. We are not going to pay 50% of market. That said, i don't disagree with you.

 

[StickyBandit]

Prepare to be disappointed, if rumors are true.

Paris returns with additional NIL funds. Wonder where they take away those funds from?

I’m not worried about rumors. If we are really going to run it back with the same strategy as this season then I’ll just check out of Gamecock athletics completely.

 

[DeBoer31]

I agree with Viennacock. But we're focusing on historically bad coaches. Historically, neither coach is bad, but it appears to me that neither is working out.

I would look to replace Paris first, since he's had more time. But that's not saying much. Anybody who favours replacing Manieri first I won't argue, but I'd a reason provided.

Here is my reason: in the last 40 years you have to say we are baseball over basketball program when compared. Given the extreme highs of baseball, it can be argued we are a "baseball school" if a definition must be applied. You just can't hire over the hill coaches ESPECIALLY in an era of baseball where new school thoughts, philosophies and play are prevalent and working. That's hard for me to say .... b/c I much prefer the old school approach.
That said...this is why I jumped up and down to back up the truck in order to get Josh Elander when Vitello was still at UT. We missed big with that one.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Prepare to be disappointed, if rumors are true.

Paris returns with additional NIL funds. Wonder where they take away those funds from?

It seems like a silly strategy. Thus far, he has not shown the capacity to coach. If the one good season provides proof he CAN coach, what do the 3 historically bad seasons prove?