it's hard to get into a game when it really has no bearing on your season. Towards the end of the year that changes, but for a big stretch it's just 1 out of 162.
Confessions of a former MLB fan.
- Thread starter jackstefano
- Start date
I dont watch many games other than Cardinals games to be honest. I do watch some other games if there is a good pitching matchup or whatnot.
And yeah the pace can get a little ridiculous. I enjoy watching Chris Carpenter pitch because he pitches a quick game alot like Maddux. Relief pitchers are the worst. They pitch one pitch step off turn around look around stand on the mound for second. It's terrible.
And yeah the pace can get a little ridiculous. I enjoy watching Chris Carpenter pitch because he pitches a quick game alot like Maddux. Relief pitchers are the worst. They pitch one pitch step off turn around look around stand on the mound for second. It's terrible.
I'm obviously in the minority. I watch my team (Braves) nearly every day. While I will flip around, I basically watch it from beginning to end. I enjoy the pace, the details, the strategy, the numbers of players/situations. Baseball isn't meant to be a high intensity game. It can last anywhere from 2 to 4 hours based upon something as arbitrary as the umpires strike zone that day.
As far as the number of games, it is a grind. That's the beauty of it. Flashy and exciting? no. Over the course of a season it becomes an endurance race as much as a talent race. I like seeing teams go from being cold for two months to hot after the all-star break. If it was a one-month season to keep it interesting then the Royals who were leading their division after a month would be division champions when now they have dropped back. It is what it is and bitching about how the season is too long or games too long just means you don't have the patience for it since its basically always been this long. They aren't going to suddenly play 45 games at an hours length.
I do agree that in todays sports marketplace, baseball is almost a niche sport because of the number of options and it takes investment as a fan to appreciate it. I'm glad the steroids problem is being brought under control, but at least it's acknowledged as a problem unlike other sports. (cough, NFL, cough)
For improvements, I would implement more of a salary cap to bring payrolls closer together. The only thing Bud Selig did that I like is the wild card.
The strike was 15 years ago, I have a hard time believing that the strike is what turned off most people on this board which is a younger age mostly.
As far as the number of games, it is a grind. That's the beauty of it. Flashy and exciting? no. Over the course of a season it becomes an endurance race as much as a talent race. I like seeing teams go from being cold for two months to hot after the all-star break. If it was a one-month season to keep it interesting then the Royals who were leading their division after a month would be division champions when now they have dropped back. It is what it is and bitching about how the season is too long or games too long just means you don't have the patience for it since its basically always been this long. They aren't going to suddenly play 45 games at an hours length.
I do agree that in todays sports marketplace, baseball is almost a niche sport because of the number of options and it takes investment as a fan to appreciate it. I'm glad the steroids problem is being brought under control, but at least it's acknowledged as a problem unlike other sports. (cough, NFL, cough)
For improvements, I would implement more of a salary cap to bring payrolls closer together. The only thing Bud Selig did that I like is the wild card.
The strike was 15 years ago, I have a hard time believing that the strike is what turned off most people on this board which is a younger age mostly.
They are competitive almost every year and they do a better job of managing talent than almost every other team and are always in the bottom five in attendance.
2003 91-71 WS Champs
2004 83-79
2005 83-79
2006 78-84
2007 71-91
2008 84-77
2009 so far 53-49
2003 91-71 WS Champs
2004 83-79
2005 83-79
2006 78-84
2007 71-91
2008 84-77
2009 so far 53-49
That's why they get more of a pass. Not saying players aren't using, but at least they started trying after Alzado died if I'm not mistaken.
but baseball players make headlines for weeks when the Mitchell Report leaks a name or two.
No one cares when NFL players are found out for doing the same thing. Here's a list that has more than the Mitchell report for NFL here.
Like it was said earlier, every sport has issues but baseball has the public black eye.
No one cares when NFL players are found out for doing the same thing. Here's a list that has more than the Mitchell report for NFL here.
Like it was said earlier, every sport has issues but baseball has the public black eye.
Yeah, baseball is too slow. You need the fast paced action of football. The sport where they run a 5 second play, wait 40 seconds and then run another 5 second play. 10 minutes of action spread over 3 and a half hours. The pace of baseball and football are very similar.
At least the 6-5 275 LB freaks that run 4.5 40s are doing it naturally in football.
At least the 6-5 275 LB freaks that run 4.5 40s are doing it naturally in football.
In baseball there is no reason. Like DCD said, some relief pitchers will come in, throw one pitch, and then step off the mound, do some fidgeting, step back on, get set, and go through the throwing routine again. It's ridiculous and it kills the flow of a game. It's totally unnecessary to do that in the 7th inning of a 7-1 ballgame. Perhaps in the 9th inning in a tied playoff game, that makes more sense. But it's just ridiculous how often it is done now and it makes baseball on tv totally unwatchable. I've watched Maddux throw a pitch, get the ball back, get immediately set, get his sign quick, and throw another pitch. He would get into a rhythmn and work a game in no time. That was fun to watch.
I still like baseball live.
I still like baseball live.
The NFL and NBA have salary cap, but since 1980 there have been 18 different WS winners, 14 different SB winners and only 8 different teams have won the NBA title. KC and the Expos/Nats are the only teams that haven't been in the playoffs since 1990. I think there are only 6 teams that haven't been in the playoffs this decade: Baltiomore, Toronto, KC, Washington, Cincy and Pittsburgh. That's all I can think of.
I don't think baseball needs a salary cap. Everybody has a chance, which is more than I can say for the college football that everybody seems to love.</p>
I don't think baseball needs a salary cap. Everybody has a chance, which is more than I can say for the college football that everybody seems to love.</p>
I quit after the '94 strike too. Tony Gwynn was hitting .390 and Ken Griffey Jr. had 45 HRs when they quit. So afterwards they juice the ball and steroids are 'allowed' for a time. That destroyed any legitimacy for me. I'll support college baseball instead. Bud Selig should die of gonorrhea and rot in hell.
First of all, we live in the South, and I assume most of the people on this board, with some exceptions- like Brutius- live in the South to. We have one MLB team that is truly "Southern"- the Atlanta Braves. There are a lot of people that like teams like the Cardinals and Cubs because they have a national appeal- mainly TV, radio boradcasts in the South, and therefore there are a lot of fans because of that. While the Braves do a good job with their atmosphere, SEC football trumps it by a good bit. It has been that way for years- baseball was what the high school football players would do for conditioning.
As a result, you had high school assistant football coaches coaching baseball, and they didn't understand the finer points of the game and basically tried to make it into a balls againt the wall sport. Find a guy that can throw hard and have him try to blow everyone away, swing for the fences, etc. type sport. Heck, Ron Polk was the guy that actually came around and started to teach people about Mississippi about baseball and how to teach it the right way. He did this to try to benefit MSU so that he wouldn't have to go out of state for good players. Think back to the 85 team- Will Clark- from New Orleans, Rafael Palmeiro- from Miami, Brantley- from Birmingham, Thigpen from Tallahassee, Florida. We're just now starting to see Mississippi develop into a state that has well trained baseball players that know how to play the game. Heck, USM went to Omaha on the strength of Mississippi players.
If people would venture out of the South more and go to MLB games at places like St. Louis, Chicago, New York, Boston, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, and yes, even Kansas City is a pretty good baseball town- I think people would like it more. All we have are AA and AAA teams nearby. Our college baseball is really good, but I think a lot of that is a product of the weather and college football and all of that.
I do think TV doesn't do baseball justice. A good example would be a guy like Derek Jeter. I saw him in person and was just in awe of the range he has at SS. It's phenomenal. But I watch a lot of baseball, and even I didn't realize just how good it was until I saw it for myself in person. I think MLB has to find a way to display the games better on TV. I don't know enough about TV to know how to convey this to fans, but there has to be a way. I think part of the problem is that there aren't enough good baseball analysts that can convey to the average fan why something was a good play, or what's going on, and say it in a way that the casual fan can understand for people to appreciate it. Say what you want to about John Madden, but he always did a good job of this with football. Baseball needs a John Madden type and fewer arrogant blowhards like Joe Morgan. I also think it would help if ESPN would stop fellating the Yankees and Red Sox for five minutes. It gives the impression that they are the only teams that can compete, and that's hardly the case. As MLB Network gains popularity and becomes more established, I think that will help.
Baseball doesn't have a salary cap, but they have a luxury tax. The salary cap hasn't stopped the Lakers, Celtics, and it hasn't stopped the Patriots in the NFL. At least baseball is sharing revenue. And yes, the Yankees and Red Sox are in the hunt every year, but it's because they make smart moves, not just haphazardly spend money. And I believe the Yankees missed the playoffs last year, so spending a ton of money is not a foolproof method to win. Baseball probably has more parity than any other sport out there. The Twins are also in the hunt every year. Why? Because again, they spend and develop wisely. The Pirates are out of it every year. Why? Because they don't spend their money wisely. And what about the Mets? They are a big market team, have their share of stars, and are a complete trainwreck.
If you don't watch MLB because of steroids, you might as well not watch any sports at all. I don't and never have understood the double standard that baseball has. I think it's these old codger sports writers who don't want to believe that some of their heros like Andy Pafko couldn't play in today's game. But there's something called progress that happens. If you don't like the pace of the game, I can understand that. I think baseball should actually move up the start time of their games form 7:15 to maybe 5:30 or 6:00. A lot of people here are in bed by the time the Mariners are done. My reason for saying that is I think the time thing is a lot about the perception because you get done around 10:00 PM as it is. You start at 6:00, you're home in time to watch the highlights on the news, or maybe have time to hang out with your buddies after the game for a little bit. Like someone said, the NFL takes every bit as long. And yes, the umpires could and should make the hitters and the pitchers hurry up.
Selig has had his bad moments- the steroids, the All-Star Game tie, and trying to contract the Brewers biggest competitor the Twins, but if you think he was bad, he was nothing compared to how bad Fay Vincent was. Selig has also brought MLB labor peace and revenue sharing, something that was thought to be impossible, he has gotten almost every team to build a brand new baseball only stadium in every MLB city and there are some on the way, he brought MLB back to Washington DC, he brought in the Wild Card and expanded the playoffs and split the division into three, causing more teams to be in the playoff hunt, he has brought the World Baseball Classic into being which is going to help internationalize baseball- which was something that was a LONG time coming, and he has brought about interleague play. And when you think about it, there are no franchises that are in danger of going under or folding- even the Pirates and Royals.
As a result, you had high school assistant football coaches coaching baseball, and they didn't understand the finer points of the game and basically tried to make it into a balls againt the wall sport. Find a guy that can throw hard and have him try to blow everyone away, swing for the fences, etc. type sport. Heck, Ron Polk was the guy that actually came around and started to teach people about Mississippi about baseball and how to teach it the right way. He did this to try to benefit MSU so that he wouldn't have to go out of state for good players. Think back to the 85 team- Will Clark- from New Orleans, Rafael Palmeiro- from Miami, Brantley- from Birmingham, Thigpen from Tallahassee, Florida. We're just now starting to see Mississippi develop into a state that has well trained baseball players that know how to play the game. Heck, USM went to Omaha on the strength of Mississippi players.
If people would venture out of the South more and go to MLB games at places like St. Louis, Chicago, New York, Boston, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, and yes, even Kansas City is a pretty good baseball town- I think people would like it more. All we have are AA and AAA teams nearby. Our college baseball is really good, but I think a lot of that is a product of the weather and college football and all of that.
I do think TV doesn't do baseball justice. A good example would be a guy like Derek Jeter. I saw him in person and was just in awe of the range he has at SS. It's phenomenal. But I watch a lot of baseball, and even I didn't realize just how good it was until I saw it for myself in person. I think MLB has to find a way to display the games better on TV. I don't know enough about TV to know how to convey this to fans, but there has to be a way. I think part of the problem is that there aren't enough good baseball analysts that can convey to the average fan why something was a good play, or what's going on, and say it in a way that the casual fan can understand for people to appreciate it. Say what you want to about John Madden, but he always did a good job of this with football. Baseball needs a John Madden type and fewer arrogant blowhards like Joe Morgan. I also think it would help if ESPN would stop fellating the Yankees and Red Sox for five minutes. It gives the impression that they are the only teams that can compete, and that's hardly the case. As MLB Network gains popularity and becomes more established, I think that will help.
Baseball doesn't have a salary cap, but they have a luxury tax. The salary cap hasn't stopped the Lakers, Celtics, and it hasn't stopped the Patriots in the NFL. At least baseball is sharing revenue. And yes, the Yankees and Red Sox are in the hunt every year, but it's because they make smart moves, not just haphazardly spend money. And I believe the Yankees missed the playoffs last year, so spending a ton of money is not a foolproof method to win. Baseball probably has more parity than any other sport out there. The Twins are also in the hunt every year. Why? Because again, they spend and develop wisely. The Pirates are out of it every year. Why? Because they don't spend their money wisely. And what about the Mets? They are a big market team, have their share of stars, and are a complete trainwreck.
If you don't watch MLB because of steroids, you might as well not watch any sports at all. I don't and never have understood the double standard that baseball has. I think it's these old codger sports writers who don't want to believe that some of their heros like Andy Pafko couldn't play in today's game. But there's something called progress that happens. If you don't like the pace of the game, I can understand that. I think baseball should actually move up the start time of their games form 7:15 to maybe 5:30 or 6:00. A lot of people here are in bed by the time the Mariners are done. My reason for saying that is I think the time thing is a lot about the perception because you get done around 10:00 PM as it is. You start at 6:00, you're home in time to watch the highlights on the news, or maybe have time to hang out with your buddies after the game for a little bit. Like someone said, the NFL takes every bit as long. And yes, the umpires could and should make the hitters and the pitchers hurry up.
Selig has had his bad moments- the steroids, the All-Star Game tie, and trying to contract the Brewers biggest competitor the Twins, but if you think he was bad, he was nothing compared to how bad Fay Vincent was. Selig has also brought MLB labor peace and revenue sharing, something that was thought to be impossible, he has gotten almost every team to build a brand new baseball only stadium in every MLB city and there are some on the way, he brought MLB back to Washington DC, he brought in the Wild Card and expanded the playoffs and split the division into three, causing more teams to be in the playoff hunt, he has brought the World Baseball Classic into being which is going to help internationalize baseball- which was something that was a LONG time coming, and he has brought about interleague play. And when you think about it, there are no franchises that are in danger of going under or folding- even the Pirates and Royals.
Several posters have stated it better than me -- it's apathy. It's a sport that many of us once loved, and now we don't hate it but feel a little meh about.
jackstefano said:
I'm kind of the same way about the NFL, but it's mainly because I'm so busy on Sunday, I can't keep up. That doesn't mean that there's anything wrong about the NFL, it just means that my tastes have changed.
I used to be a 49ers fan- loved Joe Montana and Jerry Rice. Still do. I still admire Bill Walsh- he was brilliant. I was excited that we were going to run the WCO because of those teams. Heck, it was because of those teams that I started to study football some and the Bill Walsh version of the offense. After seeing Croom's disaster, I'm convinced that I probably could have run it better, and I don't really think he totally understood the offense himself based on his comments vs. Bill Walsh's. I do have the common sense to know to trim it down so that these college boys could learn it and the common sense to not try to run it with walk-ons, at the very least. First thing I would have done is go to California and get a QB instead of a midget with osteoperosis from Alabama. Oh, well.
and somehow loses 3 of 5 to a team that only had to win 85 games to win a weak division, the team that won 100 is still the better team. They just lost 3 out of 5 at the wrong time. We all accept it, but if I told you about a sport played in sub-Saharan Africa where the teams play four hour games every day for 6 months (6 months!) and then play three rounds of short series playoffs starting with a best of 5 to decide a "champion" you would dismiss it as foreign ridiculousness. The current playoff format was grafted onto baseball to make it more like the NFL and generate more TV money. In the old days, each league had a champion and they played a best of 11 to decide the World Series. From a pure competitive standpoint, that makes vastly more sense. The pursuit of TV money by MLB is destroying the future of the game, because once all these old guys watching start dying off, a kid who is 16 now will be in his prime earning years never having watched an inning of meaningful baseball on TV.
As someone said earlier, the steroids excuse is a scapegoat and I believe that saying you don't watch baseball because of a strike that happened 15 years ago is as well. To me, Notch nailed the problem when he says that it takes investment as a fan to appreciate it.
Growing up, baseball was Ryan Sandberg, Kirby Puckett, Dale Murphy, and Will Clark. Now, I'm lucky if I can pronounce half the names on my favorite team (the Giants). Don't get me wrong. There's nothing wrong with the sport expanding internationally, but it takes a lot to have a clue who some players are these days. It also takes a lot more to sit through a near 4-hour game when you're working and have a family than it did when you're 10 and have 3 months to do nothing at all in the summer. Combine that with the pace of play as comapred to football and basketball, and Notch is exactly right.
There's really nothing wrong with baseball that is turning people off. It just takes a whole lot more effort and investment to follow it when you're 30 than when you're either 10 or 70 and retired. I, for one, love the game, but I've also fallen into the group that really doesn't care until October simply because I don't have the time to put into it that's necessary anymore.