Crooms, Mullen, Nutts and recruiting

[Coach34]

Sylvester Crooms recruiting:

2004- didnt make top 50 1 4-star, 3 3-star
2005- 33rd 3 4-star, 9 3-star
2006- #46 3 4-star, 10 3-star
2007- #39 4 4-star, 13 3-star
2008- #44 (after big Liberty Bowl win) 4 4-star, 7 3-star

Crooms- 5 recruiting classes

15 4-star players, 42 3-star players....21 wins

Dan Mullen recruiting:

2009- #25 7 4-star, 17 3-star
2010- #38 5 4-star, 14 3-star
2011- #37 2 4-star, 23 3-star currently

Mullen- 3 recruiting classes

14 4-star players, 54 3-star players.....14 wins in 2 seasons

No more "Mullen is winning with Crooms players" ******** needs to be spewed... you can plainly see he has improved the recruiting at State and it will continue to improve as State continues to make bowl games.

Now, on to Houston Nutts and his recruiting:

Mississippi's Senior class just went 10-22 in the SEC the last 4 years- their recruiting rankings:

2007- 27th....6 and 12 (4's and 3's)
2008- 29th...1, 2, 15 (5's, 4's, and 3's)
2009- 18th...1,8,22 (5's, 4's, and 3's)
2010- 18th...8 and 16 (4's and 5's)

Nutts team in 2010 had classes with 2 5's, 22 4's, 65 3's- and went 4-8...his 2011 team will have class rankings of 29th, 18th, 18th, and top 15...

With such high rankings, they will easily be top 20 and expectations should be high in Oxford right? No way expectations for State and Mullen can compare with whats going on in %%%+#%%$+#...
Can Nutts win with Nutts players???????

 

[Coach34]

Sylvester Crooms recruiting:

2004- didnt make top 50 1 4-star, 3 3-star
2005- 33rd 3 4-star, 9 3-star
2006- #46 3 4-star, 10 3-star
2007- #39 4 4-star, 13 3-star
2008- #44 (after big Liberty Bowl win) 4 4-star, 7 3-star

Crooms- 5 recruiting classes

15 4-star players, 42 3-star players....21 wins

Dan Mullen recruiting:

2009- #25 7 4-star, 17 3-star
2010- #38 5 4-star, 14 3-star
2011- #37 2 4-star, 23 3-star currently

Mullen- 3 recruiting classes

14 4-star players, 54 3-star players.....14 wins in 2 seasons

No more "Mullen is winning with Crooms players" ******** needs to be spewed... you can plainly see he has improved the recruiting at State and it will continue to improve as State continues to make bowl games.

Now, on to Houston Nutts and his recruiting:

Mississippi's Senior class just went 10-22 in the SEC the last 4 years- their recruiting rankings:

2007- 27th....6 and 12 (4's and 3's)
2008- 29th...1, 2, 15 (5's, 4's, and 3's)
2009- 18th...1,8,22 (5's, 4's, and 3's)
2010- 18th...8 and 16 (4's and 5's)

Nutts team in 2010 had classes with 2 5's, 22 4's, 65 3's- and went 4-8...his 2011 team will have class rankings of 29th, 18th, 18th, and top 15...

With such high rankings, they will easily be top 20 and expectations should be high in Oxford right? No way expectations for State and Mullen can compare with whats going on in %%%+#%%$+#...
Can Nutts win with Nutts players???????

 

[Coach34]

Sylvester Crooms recruiting:

2004- didnt make top 50 1 4-star, 3 3-star
2005- 33rd 3 4-star, 9 3-star
2006- #46 3 4-star, 10 3-star
2007- #39 4 4-star, 13 3-star
2008- #44 (after big Liberty Bowl win) 4 4-star, 7 3-star

Crooms- 5 recruiting classes

15 4-star players, 42 3-star players....21 wins

Dan Mullen recruiting:

2009- #25 7 4-star, 17 3-star
2010- #38 5 4-star, 14 3-star
2011- #37 2 4-star, 23 3-star currently

Mullen- 3 recruiting classes

14 4-star players, 54 3-star players.....14 wins in 2 seasons

No more "Mullen is winning with Crooms players" ******** needs to be spewed... you can plainly see he has improved the recruiting at State and it will continue to improve as State continues to make bowl games.

Now, on to Houston Nutts and his recruiting:

Mississippi's Senior class just went 10-22 in the SEC the last 4 years- their recruiting rankings:

2007- 27th....6 and 12 (4's and 3's)
2008- 29th...1, 2, 15 (5's, 4's, and 3's)
2009- 18th...1,8,22 (5's, 4's, and 3's)
2010- 18th...8 and 16 (4's and 5's)

Nutts team in 2010 had classes with 2 5's, 22 4's, 65 3's- and went 4-8...his 2011 team will have class rankings of 29th, 18th, 18th, and top 15...

With such high rankings, they will easily be top 20 and expectations should be high in Oxford right? No way expectations for State and Mullen can compare with whats going on in %%%+#%%$+#...
Can Nutts win with Nutts players???????

 

[thatsbaseball]

is if Mullen can spot which 3 star players have a significant upside that the analysts missed. I absolutely loathed Croom but I`m not ready to give Mullen a perpetual honeymoon just because he`s "anybody but Croom".

 

[msu202020]

are we content just competing with Ole Miss, or do we want to compete with Alabama, LSU and Auburn. Mullen may be a great coach, but to compete big time in the SEC West, we must improve our recruiting.

 

[JWP.sixpack]

I just think that is going to be a few years of winning seasons and bowl wins before we turn the page. I would love to talk to Mullen and get his take on our recruiting efforts. I sure he would be upset at losing some of these big name recruits but we still look like we have a solid class this year.

I think that we forget the good players that we have picked up because we are trying to focus to much on winning a recruiting battle that means very little.

 

[RebelBruiser]

So far, his best class by far was the one that Croom got started for him. The others have been very similar to Croom's latest classes at best, and that's not just in the rankings.

He's taking a lot of guys that aren't getting other major BCS interest, and in both classes he's had to pick up guys late that appear to be Plan B's after missing on guys that were clearly higher priority.

The legend goes, 'if he can win with Croom's players, he can certainly win with his own'. For that to be the case, he would have to be bringing in better talent, and I don't know that I see a marked improvement in that area. I think he's bringing in enough to take advantage of weak OOC schedules and make a bowl most years, but I don't believe he's bringing in enough to give you a shot at competing in the West.

You have to also note that both recruiting sites typically have been giving out more 4/5 star rankings than previously and fewer 2 star ratings, which makes it hard to compare.

You always speak about how Ole Miss fans claim the "crootin trophy" each year. Is that any different than State fans claiming the "in-state crootin trophy" basically every year I can remember?

 

[Jacknut1]

until next year's recruiting. At least that's what "they" say and I think it's pretty much true. What Mullen has done so far is raise the overall talent level of the team where there's not so much of a dropoff in talent from a starter to 2nd string. Now he has to start sprinkling in more 4* and 5* into the mix.

Edit - And the most important part is getting them into and keeping them in school. Something the Bears haven't been able to do with their star-studded classes.

 

[Coach34]

are we content just competing with Ole Miss, or do we want to compete with Alabama, LSU and Auburn. Mullen may be a great coach, but to compete big time in the SEC West, we must improve our recruiting.

Do you automatically expect Mullen to be able to sell our program like Bama or LSU sells theirs after one Gator Bowl trip?

2 Cotton Bowls > 1 Gator Bowl

I understand getting all excited about the direction of the program, but their has to be some realism involved in the excitement. As good as things are going, Mullen still only has ONE winning season

 

[Coach34]

Mullen has already brought more 3-stars in 3 years than Crooms did in 5. Thats improvement. The core of the team is improving talent-wise.

When we sustain success this Fall, you will see more of the star players want to come be a part of it...

 

[weblow]

and I think everyone on this board would agree that we want to compete with the big boys in the west. But something we fail to see a lot of times is that we have had 1 good season in the past few years. We are not going to make a change in recruiting over night. Mullen showed up to a 17ing train wreck of a football program and while we see the turn around he has made as State fans, I think we will need a few years of sustained success to get the recruits.

I also think that we need Mullen to be in the running for a few more jobs and turn them down to give some comfort to the recruits coming in. I think a lot of them, a scared that Mullen is going to leave and the program will return to ****. I don't believe that but I think that is what some of them think.

These kids that are being recruited now have seen Ole Miss have some good years and seen State have some of the worst years I can remember, with 1 good season mixed in. It is not going to be an overnight thing. If we can put together a string of 2-3 years, recruits will start swimming to the boat and Mullen move his focus to heppin people.

Coach34 pretty much stole my thunder because I am long winded and type too slow.

 

[coach66]

the trend continues at Ole Miss with off the field issues and highly rated recruits never panning out. We had the same problem (off the field issues)but thankfully we seem to have overcome it for now with Mullen. If we continue to sign solid guys that can play and develop then we will be as competitive as we are right now going forwardand yes we competed for the West this year and we will again next year. We will bea better team next year and I think we will continue to improve. I believe this because I believecoaching trumps everything elseand I know alot of people don't agree. The big question is whether Nix is going to be able to teach CJ to stay in his gap.

 

[GroveHard]

your numbers do not account for attrition or players never making it to campus, right?

 

[medearis]

A bunch of guys making irrelevant arguments...what's next? A good ole fashion game of tummysticks? Trying too hard.

Good coaching beats good recruiting every time. For instance, which D looks better: The one that's playing with a 20 point lead because its offense puts points on the board or the one that is full of highly touted players who are out on the field all game because the offense keeps going 3 and out and turning the ball over?

All Dan needs is consistent classes ranked 25-40 that include players he needs for his system. As MSU keeps winning, his classes will get better. Look at Virginia Tech. They rarely crack the top 25 in recruiting and yet play in BCS games every year. Sure their conference is weaker, but the point still stands.

 

[msu202020]

reality is we just got our *** handed to us on in-state recruiting. I just don't understand the nature of wrapping a pretty bow around it. I am hoping the staff corrects any mistakes made in recruiting this year, have another good season on the field, and improve on the recruiting front next year.</p>

 

[OMlawdog]

Because they were both tired of lunatic fan bases leaving their sites because they were unhappy with a players two star ranking.

That said until mullen Showa he can't win football games this is pretty dumb discussion.

 

[DAWG101]

Croom did have probation hanging over him first couple of years which was an isssue. I give all the credit in the world to Mullen, but you do have to take in consideration Croom's last class (Bumpis, Cox, Boyd, Ferguson??, T Russell,). Croom got all of them commited, Mullen did close the deal. Alos worth mentioning, Crooms best class was not the one right after the Liberty Bowl, it was the next years after the 4 or5 win season. I thought the year after the bowl was an excuse, but maybe there is some tructh.

 

[jeremyrbrown]

nmnm

 

[Baron Von Raschke]

us to steer it away from they are outpaying us.

 

[AlCoDog]

Croom had absolutely nothing to do with Chad Bumphis. Nothing. That was all Mullen. Add Perkins and Heavens to that list.

 

[seshomoru]

[No message]

 

[57stratdawg]

That class also had a HUGE part in our success this year on the field. Cox, Boyd, McPhee, White, Jonathan Banks, even guys like LaDarius Perkins, and Chris Smith were playing significant minutes towards the end of the year.

However, the one big difference I see in Croom and Mullen is that Mullen's plan B guys still look like studs on paper - especially across the OL/DL. Archie Muniz (6'6), Eric Lawson (6'7), Dillon Day (6'5), Justin Malone (6'6), John Harris (6'6).

If we have a OL and DL full of guys that are all 6'6 315 lbs, I think our program will be in great shape for the future.

 

[RebelBruiser]

Almost everyone, with a few exceptions, that get a BCS offer get a 3 star rating. You still see the occasional 2 star player, but what was a 2 star player 5 years ago, in many cases is a 3 star today, solely because they want to appease the fanbases.

For Coach34, what other measure makes you feel so much better about Mullen's recruiting. You can list off at least half of your class the past two years that have received little to no interest from other BCS programs. That's fine if Mullen is a much better talent evaluator than every other BCS coach in the area. He may be, but nothing has proven that yet by any means. I'm just curious to hear the logic on why Mullen is recruiting better than Croom did. I just don't see it.

He's proven he can put together a solid season with Croom's recruits, so that may not be so bad, but if you're hoping to take another step, it won't happen with Croom-level recruiting, and that's what I see you doing right now.

On coach66, I agree with you. Our number 1 problem lately has been keeping players. As I said in another thread, I'm still fairly pleased with our 2009 haul, and I think it was a better than average haul for us even post-attrition, but the attrition rate has to get better. Still, I don't see what that has to do with MSU. I don't see that you competed for the West. There were 4 teams that were better than you. 2 of them beat you resoundingly at their place, and the other 2 barely beat you at your place. You aren't going to get much better than that unless your recruiting picks up, and I don't see it. You're only going to get so many diamonds in the rough each year.

 

[Coach34]

your numbers do not account for attrition or players never making it to campus, right?

What good is it to sign someone that wont qualify?

Developing the players you sign is the most important part of recruiting...if you dont develop them, then recruiting doesnt matter

 

[TUSK.sixpack]

the part about recruits getting "...BCS interest...."...that's how I gauge a class: By who else is offering the kid....<div>
</div><div>if Michigan, ND, USC, UT, Texas, LSU, or Florida etc wants him, I want him, "star power" be damned...</div><div>
</div><div>conversely, if his only offers are from Memphis, USM, MSU, Mississippi, UAB, South Alabama and the like, he's likely not worth the risk of a scholly.</div>

 

[memphisron]

to agree with bruiser on his last part he is right. Only so far you can go with 3 stars and diamonds in the rough. If you want to compete for the sec west title, picking up the highly rated guys is a must along with a little luck. The 1st goal each year should be to win the west.

 

[Jacknut1]

Not just 2* to 3*. It's the only thing we have to compare each class's recruiting ranking so we use it. You Bears are just saying that because Mullen has increased our overall level of talent with 3* as compared to Croom.

 

[Johnson85]

I'm just curious to hear the logic on why Mullen is recruiting better than Croom did. I just don't see it.

He's proven he can put together a solid season with Croom's recruits, so that may not be so bad, but if you're hoping to take another step, it won't happen with Croom-level recruiting, and that's what I see you doing right now.

I'd much have a medium rated class with a legitimate qb prospect than a medium rated class without one.

We're probably not going to take the step of winning the SEC with the players we're taking right now, butwe can take the step of consistently winning weak OOC games and goingto traditional new year's day bowl games, just like UM's two cotton bowl seasons.Once weare there, the next step will depend on Danstaying or finding the right replacement, but if he does, we will then have the opportunity to get recruits that could potentially take the next step. May not happen, butstill much betterposition than UM, who will have to wait until their next head coach to get back to winning.

 

[57stratdawg]

We were looking at that 4 star CB from Mobile with Auburn, MSU, Alabama offers and a few others. I said over and over again, I didn't think he really had the offers he says he does.

He committed to Memphis last weekend.

 

[Mean Machine say what]

really only apply to 3 stars. If there has been an increase in the others it has been marginal compared to the increased numbers of 3 stars.

 

[TUSK.sixpack]

do these recruiting services bother confirming if an offer has been made with the offering program? aren't programs allowed to say to whom they've made offers?<div>
</div><div>one last thing... remember this jacksass? http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=3236039</div>

 

[rebel law]

How do you explain the parallel between LSU, Auburn, and Alabama's top 10 classes and top 10 results on the field? Mullen is beating Ole Miss on the field and maybe you can even argue on the recruiting trail. But he is 0-10 vs the rest of the west. He is going to have to get better players to significantly flip that number. I think it is obvious to any unbiased person that Dan Mullen is a real good football coach. I just think at MSU or OM, you have to be a good coach and have very good players to compete in the cutthroat SEC west.

 

[patdog]

That includes even acknowledging that there is an offer. I'm sure coaches do it all the time off the record to certain reporters though.

 

[GroveHard]

I think that's sort of my point. I'm not talking about development though. I'm saying it's not entirely accurate to suggest that rankings don't matter because Ole Miss' higher ranked classes have been beaten on the field by State's lower ranked classes when a significant number of the guys propping up those classes never made it to the field. That was a long *** sentence.

ETA: Off the top of my head Ole Miss 4 stars in the 2009 class: Pat, Tig, Drummond, Cotton. I think all of State's 4 stars from 09 suited up this year.

 

[tenureplan]

Like Nutt did with Manngelton yesterday

 

[maroonmania]

right now. If we just hold the commitments we had with CJ and Whitehead, even if we lost our Brassell commitment and Singleton, I don't think anyone here would be all that disappointed. I certainly don't expect us to reel in much of any top rated out of state guys until we do prove we are a solid consistent winning program AND that Mullen is going to stick with us for a while.

 

[patdog]

Nutt committed a minor violation yesterday.

 

[Fresno Bob]

Coaches can acknowledge they are actively recruiting a player. They can't say more than that, though.

 

[Coach34]

you guys going around beating your 17'ing chests and saying Mullen cant recruit need to hold off for a couple of years until a correct judgement can be made

 

[RebelBruiser]

I'll concede something to Coach as a possibility.

Mullen appears to be taking his "leftovers" primarily from Mississippi, and in large part he's stealing a good portion of what normally would become USM's roster. I'm sure Larry Fedora was particularly pissed last year, because you're going to kill his program if you keep it up.

Now, the theory could be that Mississippi's talent is just underdeveloped and therefore undervalued, and that's why he's taking guys that other programs pass on. If that's truly the case, then it's possible he's filling up his class with talent that's just in need of development, and it'll pay off in the long run.

As I said though, that's an untested theory. I'll be curious myself to watch it play out, because I think it could affect the way we choose to recruit as well.

I'll give some credence to that theory as a possibility, because I do believe Mississippi talent is undervalued, but it's a big gamble in my book.

Regardless, he still wants to at least split the most highly coveted talent in the state, and I think he would like to take closer to 2/3 of that talent if possible. He's not going to do that this year, and he really split it 50/50 last year, so whether you buy that it's a big deal or not, I guarantee it's a big deal to him.