Daily Collegian Article On Starrocci Allegations
- Thread starter Misalorales
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Warning, this is long.
After reading the article, this is what I know for sure - it is poorly written and poorly documented. Way too much is innuendo where there should be specifics. There is not enough corroboration where there easily could be some. This is not a she said/he said. So far, it is a shes said. These charges may be true. I guess time will tell. I spent over thirty years as an investigator for the feds. It was civil investigations with a couple of criminal ones tossed in. I spent my later years as a supervisor and trainer. If an investigator brought this to me, I would send them out for more information before taking further action.
Here are my critiques, some picayune, most not. Starting at the beginning of the article and working my way through:
It is the Lorenzo Wrestling Complex, not Center. (I warned you some would be picayune.) Come on. You're supposed to be a journalist. At least get your setting right.
Jane and Ava said they were sixteen or seventeen when they had their contacts with Starocci. Were the ages confirmed? If so, state it. If not, just laziness.
Jane said she was in the sauna with Starocci several times after hours. Times would be nice. (This seems like a chancey thing to do considering that the wrestling team shares at least their weight room with the women's volleyball team.) How about confirming if non-athletes had access to the sauna. How long are security camera files kept?
Was the training partner who Jane said saw her in the sauna interviewed? For that matter, were the wrestlers who were interviewed asked about non-athlete access to the sauna and locker area? Again, lazy writing and investigating. There were three wrestlers interviewed, including Beau, and this allegation was just taken at face value without any apparent corroboration.
Did Starocci's girlfriend tell him that she got her information from Sydney Bartlett? Was she interviewed? Was there even an attempt made to interview her? If the alleged theft was supposedly made in retaliation for the breakup, it would be helpful to know if Starocci knew that Sydney was involved.
Beau said, "They (the coaches) kept asking if I found my stuff but none of them questioned who took it." I think this means that they did not question that Starocci took it, but it could also mean that they never asked who Beau thought took it. More sloppy writing.
The article stated that Beau opened an investigation (more sloppy writing - Beau filed a complaint, the police opened an investigation) on the "lost" items. Were they lost or stolen? Again, sloppy writing. I am assuming Beau said they were stolen because the police did look into the matter.
The writer obtained text messages about the investigation. Whose text messages and how were they obtained? How about hauling you butt a few blocks across campus and attempt to get a copy of the official report.
"Penn State police were unable to contact Starocci over the course of the nearly six month investigation, Beau said." And he knew this how? Readers should not be using their imaginations to fill in banks. The writer depends upon that too much instead of providing supporting documentation.
What do we know about the locker room video other than Starocci was not holding anything in his hands? Was he wearing a backpack? That would be useful information.
"Jacqueline Sheader, a public information officer confirmed UPPS investigated a theft allegation through their criminal investigations unit. Sheader said the investigation was closed on June 4." More sloppy writing. An investigation of what? I assume that the writer meant an investigation into Beau's missing items.
"Everyone who spoke with the Collegian echoed fear in having their names public while speaking about Starocci." I am not asking for names here, but at least tell me how many people we are talking about. We know of five: Jane, Ava, Beau, and two other wrestlers.
“He is intimidating and the things he would do against people who are against him are very concerning and disgusting,” Ava, a Penn State sophomore who requested anonymity, said. More vagueness. How about some examples of the "things."
The locker room pictures are the first thing supported by other testimony. I have no idea as to the motivation of Starocci here so I will not speculate. I have no reason to believe that this complaint is not accurate, although the writer only got confirmation from "Oliver" when "Mark" was also available to confirm.
"In practice, Beau and Oliver said Starocci would constantly grab their genitals and place his fingers into their backsides during practices. Mark also said Starocci became frustrated during a training match and strongly struck his head with his knee." Others have spoken to this. I was not a wrestler so I cannot comment on whether or not such contact is normal during training. I will leave it to others to explain if, given the training partners available, it would be unusual for a 141 pounder to be grappling with a 184. I will say that "place his fingers into their backsides" is rather imprecise. Are we talking about grabbing a butt or delving into Ferrari territory?
"Beau, Oliver and another teammate all told the Collegian that Starocci continued to touch other wrestlers inappropriately in the training room, sometimes in front of Sanderson." Again, leaving things to a reader's imagination is not a good thing.
"They also reported knowledge of rumors of Starocci’s sexual misconduct and inappropriate interactions with minors." First of all, reporting on rumors is not a good look. Secondly, minors? If you report something like that, you damn well better have something more than rumors. As others have said in this thread, sixteen is the age of consent in PA with someone more than four years older.
"Ava said she met Starocci through mutual friends during her freshman year in 2023. She said she was with a group of friends, all ages 16 and 17, while Starocci sent explicit images to them." Explicit images of what? Again, don't leave things to a reader's imagination. This accusation should not be left to speculation.
Okay, no further comment on the article. Something probably happened. I just would need more facts and less inuendo to be convinced.
And speaking of inuendo, I am not surprised that victim shaming has already begun. What else could be behind claiming that Jane and Ava are Only Fans models? They are anonymous. Just because someone on Only Fans, or wherever, has claimed some things about Starocci, that doesn't make them true and that does not mean they are the same people who have come forward in this article.
One more thing, for those stating that the wrestlers would not put up with the allegations about Starocci inappropriately touching them, I suggest you watch the HBO documentary about Ohio State.
After reading the article, this is what I know for sure - it is poorly written and poorly documented. Way too much is innuendo where there should be specifics. There is not enough corroboration where there easily could be some. This is not a she said/he said. So far, it is a shes said. These charges may be true. I guess time will tell. I spent over thirty years as an investigator for the feds. It was civil investigations with a couple of criminal ones tossed in. I spent my later years as a supervisor and trainer. If an investigator brought this to me, I would send them out for more information before taking further action.
Here are my critiques, some picayune, most not. Starting at the beginning of the article and working my way through:
It is the Lorenzo Wrestling Complex, not Center. (I warned you some would be picayune.) Come on. You're supposed to be a journalist. At least get your setting right.
Jane and Ava said they were sixteen or seventeen when they had their contacts with Starocci. Were the ages confirmed? If so, state it. If not, just laziness.
Jane said she was in the sauna with Starocci several times after hours. Times would be nice. (This seems like a chancey thing to do considering that the wrestling team shares at least their weight room with the women's volleyball team.) How about confirming if non-athletes had access to the sauna. How long are security camera files kept?
Was the training partner who Jane said saw her in the sauna interviewed? For that matter, were the wrestlers who were interviewed asked about non-athlete access to the sauna and locker area? Again, lazy writing and investigating. There were three wrestlers interviewed, including Beau, and this allegation was just taken at face value without any apparent corroboration.
Did Starocci's girlfriend tell him that she got her information from Sydney Bartlett? Was she interviewed? Was there even an attempt made to interview her? If the alleged theft was supposedly made in retaliation for the breakup, it would be helpful to know if Starocci knew that Sydney was involved.
Beau said, "They (the coaches) kept asking if I found my stuff but none of them questioned who took it." I think this means that they did not question that Starocci took it, but it could also mean that they never asked who Beau thought took it. More sloppy writing.
The article stated that Beau opened an investigation (more sloppy writing - Beau filed a complaint, the police opened an investigation) on the "lost" items. Were they lost or stolen? Again, sloppy writing. I am assuming Beau said they were stolen because the police did look into the matter.
The writer obtained text messages about the investigation. Whose text messages and how were they obtained? How about hauling you butt a few blocks across campus and attempt to get a copy of the official report.
"Penn State police were unable to contact Starocci over the course of the nearly six month investigation, Beau said." And he knew this how? Readers should not be using their imaginations to fill in banks. The writer depends upon that too much instead of providing supporting documentation.
What do we know about the locker room video other than Starocci was not holding anything in his hands? Was he wearing a backpack? That would be useful information.
"Jacqueline Sheader, a public information officer confirmed UPPS investigated a theft allegation through their criminal investigations unit. Sheader said the investigation was closed on June 4." More sloppy writing. An investigation of what? I assume that the writer meant an investigation into Beau's missing items.
"Everyone who spoke with the Collegian echoed fear in having their names public while speaking about Starocci." I am not asking for names here, but at least tell me how many people we are talking about. We know of five: Jane, Ava, Beau, and two other wrestlers.
“He is intimidating and the things he would do against people who are against him are very concerning and disgusting,” Ava, a Penn State sophomore who requested anonymity, said. More vagueness. How about some examples of the "things."
The locker room pictures are the first thing supported by other testimony. I have no idea as to the motivation of Starocci here so I will not speculate. I have no reason to believe that this complaint is not accurate, although the writer only got confirmation from "Oliver" when "Mark" was also available to confirm.
"In practice, Beau and Oliver said Starocci would constantly grab their genitals and place his fingers into their backsides during practices. Mark also said Starocci became frustrated during a training match and strongly struck his head with his knee." Others have spoken to this. I was not a wrestler so I cannot comment on whether or not such contact is normal during training. I will leave it to others to explain if, given the training partners available, it would be unusual for a 141 pounder to be grappling with a 184. I will say that "place his fingers into their backsides" is rather imprecise. Are we talking about grabbing a butt or delving into Ferrari territory?
"Beau, Oliver and another teammate all told the Collegian that Starocci continued to touch other wrestlers inappropriately in the training room, sometimes in front of Sanderson." Again, leaving things to a reader's imagination is not a good thing.
"They also reported knowledge of rumors of Starocci’s sexual misconduct and inappropriate interactions with minors." First of all, reporting on rumors is not a good look. Secondly, minors? If you report something like that, you damn well better have something more than rumors. As others have said in this thread, sixteen is the age of consent in PA with someone more than four years older.
"Ava said she met Starocci through mutual friends during her freshman year in 2023. She said she was with a group of friends, all ages 16 and 17, while Starocci sent explicit images to them." Explicit images of what? Again, don't leave things to a reader's imagination. This accusation should not be left to speculation.
Okay, no further comment on the article. Something probably happened. I just would need more facts and less inuendo to be convinced.
And speaking of inuendo, I am not surprised that victim shaming has already begun. What else could be behind claiming that Jane and Ava are Only Fans models? They are anonymous. Just because someone on Only Fans, or wherever, has claimed some things about Starocci, that doesn't make them true and that does not mean they are the same people who have come forward in this article.
One more thing, for those stating that the wrestlers would not put up with the allegations about Starocci inappropriately touching them, I suggest you watch the HBO documentary about Ohio State.
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Fair point. My point is that anyone involved in our combat sport knows this is just noise, and your point is that we are relying on outside officials interpretations of this - which is scary.
I will say, however, that I find it difficult to imagine a scenario where this plays out to the full extent of how it could go bad for the program. I mean, you can just bring up the video of Ferrari's thigh pry as an example of what is not even considered to be against the rules of our sport. How is a coach supposed to manage that? What actions can you bring against an athlete? Again, a bad look for our sport in general when taken out of context, but one that comes with the territory.
I have heard, but have not verified, that in California, theft at that level is not even prosecuted.
Now it's come full circle Ferrari is the issue here guys. Dice never change my man your spin is always needed
Well done, however, I wrestled at tOSU at the time of the allegations and although there were homosexuals trolling the locker and shower areas, I never heard of the doctor who violated wrestlers. One of my coaches was Andy DiSabato, and sparred quite a bit with Jude Skove. The fact is, Andy's brother Mike DiSabato who was once CEO of the failed "Cage Fighter" apparel brand was working with disgraced DC law firm Perkins Coie to falsely smear Congressman Jim Jordan. So, don't refer to the tOSU story like you know anything about it. The tOSU story was a complete fraud scam of a story.
He happened to be ready and available when needed to make a comparison. Happy to oblige.Now it's come full circle Ferrari is the issue here guys. Dice never change my man your spin is always needed
Didn't you accuse me of being an Iowa PR guy
. Man Cael needs to hire you ASAP. The way you spin I would like to see your pottery collection
I can't help you fanning this as spin. I still haven't defended Carter yet - can't say the same about you and AJ.Didn't you accuse me of being an Iowa PR guy
I'm innocent until proven guilty and that's how I will stay . I think people read our back and forth with each other and think we are beefingI can't help you fanning this as spin. I still haven't defended Carter yet - can't say the same about you and AJ.
. I have learned over the years you don't take this stuff really serious either. Glad we can needle each other without the name calling and vitriolJude Skove is a blast from the past during my days growing up on the Jersey Shore. I think he won a NCAA championship, might have beaten PSU Elinsky. Luke was his twin brother, I think, was a 4 time champ in NJ and went to the other OSU. I do not think he ever won a title but was a multi time AA. At least got my mind off all the bad news circulating on the PSU sites.
They've a nephew Hudson who's at Harvard now Thomas is his dad
I had an employee who was accused of firebombing someone’s car. The police called me and said, “can you contact Bob and have him come to the front lobby? We would like to interview him.”
That‘s all it takes. Call Cael, ask when C* will be at Lorenzo, show up and have a coach pull him out of practice. Something is wrong with this part of the story.
Yeah, a sad story,
The woman said she needed money for her “business,” which we think was an escort business. He pulled all his 401k money out, gave it to her, then she ghosted him. Then her car blew up. Shortly after he was interviewed by the police, “Bob” killed himself. He was such a nice guy. A horrible situation.
Cowardly board, or criminal board covering up their own misdeeds? Throw the dead man (or dying man) under the bus and move on quickly.
People are nuts if they believe Spanier made the call to pass the Sandusky mess back down to the Second Mile without direction from the power structure above him.
I'll simply say....I have never made agregious statements regarding athletes. Even when, I have actual knowledge. It will all work out in the end.
I'm going to wait before passing judgement, but so far this isn't a he said she said it's more like a he said she said she said. Sexual assault isn't something to be taken lightly and I have to believe if Cael was told directly that CS had sexually assaulted young women he would've done something about it. Now if he was told by someone that said they heard others say CS had sexually assaulted someone it's not as clear cut, but still should've been reported. Ugh. Just a mess.
There you go again assuming a scenario that possible cael was told something about SA. Was he? Was he told much of anything? Did he report things? Does anyone know what actually transpired? This reads more like a ladies gossip group forum?
Do you think the athletic department should release a statement?
Or Cael release a statement?
As a fan that wants to believe the best from the team etc, yes.
If I were their legal council or PR guy, probably not before allegations come from an official channel at a minimum.
I think we all want clarity on the situation, but this is where the issue lies. Is there an investigation over the SA stuff? If there is it is in the program and University's best interests to not say anything. They didn't release a statement for Snyder's issues and are not for Aaron's (so far).
It's normal to want stability (hell I wish we had it in my day to day moreso than in wrestling), but it's going to be a bumpy summer, I think.
No statement will ever satisfy those demanding one. Unless it gives them the rope to hang Cael with.
Athletic department should at some point. As far as the theft and bullying accusations. The SA, that needs to be addressed by law enforcement if its reported. That would be the university statement and all it should be if its being investigated.
No. I don't think they should release a statement based upon what we know right now. And don't forget, they know a lot more about this than anybody on a public wrestling forum. Either (i) they have recognized there is no actual pending claim and that these are mostly one-sided allegations in a student newspaper that have not (as far as we all know right now) picked up any traction beyond the wrestling forums, so why give it any more life or credibility, or (ii) they are aware of (or suspect) an investigation is pending or ongoing or that a claim has been filed or is likely to be filed (or simply may be filed) but is not yet been made public so it would not be prudent to make any statements until more information is known. Under either of these scenarios, there is real benefit to issue a statement other than to appease a bunch of fans who demand more information. I am sure all applicable athletes, recruits, families, etc. have been contacted and been provided what they need.
My current belief is that this is likely to fade more each day and will not go any further (even though your Iowa brethren continue to try to keep alive). I doubt the Bartlett's intend to file any formal complaint beyond what was filed on the theft. I suspect that they are pleased with the mud that has been thrown on Starocci and his loss of reputation (loss of spot at NLWC, camps, etc.) -- that seems to be what they always wanted (and a watch and maybe some publicity). The author of their article already came out and said nobody is alleging that the administration, coaches or staff knew about the alleged SA claims. And Bartlett clearly did not see the locker room activities as serious as others are making them because he had an opportunity to include those in his claim with law enforcement and only focused on his watch from all accounts so far. So there is not much left for them to go on the offensive about.
So that leaves the alleged SA claims between the 2 women and Starocci. As far as we know, the women have not filed a formal complaint and these matters were some time ago. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. If they do, it does not appear based upon the information that is out there so far that they have any claim against anyone other than Starocci. Starocci may also file a claim for some form of defamation, harassment, etc. against the Bartlett's, the paper, the women quoted in the paper, etc. If so, PSU is likely only involved to help establish damages -- Starocci will try to show he was not offered a spot in NLWC (or was terminated) because of this article and allegations -- PSU will have to provide their side of that. The possibilities of either or both or these happening is enough for PSU to not want to make any statements at this time.
As always, just my opinions. Feel free to disagree.
Since it has been confirmed by the reporter that Cael and PSU were never informed about the sexual assault allegations, what do you want them to release a statement on? Just the theft investigation? Don't you think that will ring a little hollow with people who are expecting something about the SA allegations?
I think they probably need to see a formal complaint filed before they are going to release any statements. It would seem foolish to me to release a statement about something you have no facts about - just some rumours that something is coming.
we need any type of statement so that we can sit back and listen to speculation and opinions of speculation for another few days
... oh yea, then arguments about the speculation....Perhaps Cael can go on their show and ask them if they have a plan, or something.
Taking legal advice from FloKaren seems unwise to me.
I don't think they should say a word . It was just a question to see what others think about it. My opinion is they've nothing to address at this time
I'm with you I wouldn't say anything until a charge was filed. Until then this is all a bunch of accusations. Just because Carter is cocky and can be outspoken doesn't mean he did what he's accused of.
With my background in LE, my opinion is silence is almost always your best friend. The temptation to want to give "your side" can be strong, especially if you see your reputation taking a giant hit. I love this scene in Mr. Between where two police officers are trying to question Ray at his house and the only answer he gives to all of their questions is, "I don't answer questions." The scene is pretty funny.
I agree and I believe Carter should lawyer up and sue he's been called a rapist. Hope people can prove what they said is true
Yeah that's the answer......way to silence even more women. Do you even comprehend what you just said? Lets let males continue raping women or shall we say exploit them in various ways with no defense to fight back? If their only recourse is to come forward and we shut them out because they didn't obtain proof? Really??? all the trauma and yet on top of all that... they have to also be thinking and calculate in the moment.... I better get proof else I was just asking for it? That's your stupid a$$ take? you do know.. No means No
I didn't see any facts in the article and nothing has gone to the police yet. So I will reserve judgement and not hang Carter or any other person.
I remember other people in wrestling and life being wrongfully accused as well. So I always wait for a police report and facts before I decide.
This was a case in wrestling 10 years ago at Chattanooga where Mock was accused as well
Father speaks out after college-athlete son cleared of rape: ‘How many young men have to have their lives destroyed?’ | The College Fix https://share.google/VP7Ge6AFnnRZ9axKX
yes facts do matter at the end of the day but to say we cant allow people to come forward despite any perceived proof needed and as far as any case sure some are false allegations ..... but it is a very low percentage to begin with..... as far as having your life destroyed well if you didn't do it what would need to be worried about right? sue for defamation AFTER you have been cleared right?
