Dan Mullen = Rocky Felker

[BigDog72.sixpack]

A lot of you younger guys won't know much about Rocky, but in my opinion, Rocky and Dan look very similar at MSU. Rocky came in as a pretty good assistant coach for Alabama. He came in as a young coach (want to say him an Mullen started at about the same age) and started out 5-1 with a huge win at Tennessee and beat Florida as well that year. All looked promising until Rocky took on a tough Auburn team and we got routed and the bleeding never stopped. Rocky won 3 SEC games over the next 3 years, but one was against LSU (1990-they sucked) and he also beat Ole Miss in 87. He fielded tough, scrappy teams, but just as Dan, they could never win a game against a middle to upper SEC opponent. He got decent players to come to State, but they just didn't know how to win, similar to Dan. Back then, you didn't have as many cupcakes as we do now. Memphis and Southern Miss were damn tough teams and we played them regularly.

My point is this-I see so many similarities with Dan and Rocky and it takes a coach that players can believe in. When the coach looks confused (as Rocky did and Dan does), players don't buy in. Some thought Rocky was about to turn the corner after 1990, but that didn't win out.

When JWS came in after we fired Felker, he brought confidence that players bought into. That's how he beat #8 Texas in his first year and the rest is history. I know everyone wants to stay with Dan, but I just don't see any confidence coming from him that carries over to the players. And the next 4 weeks will definitely define us as to having guts and coaching or just packing it in.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Dan > Rockey

Tech and Ten still haunts me.

 

[BigDog72.sixpack]

I did forget about that one, but at least Rocky beat a top 10 Tennessee team and LSU. The both are equal with Florida.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Tennessee was overrated and LSU was 5-6...

They finished 7-5 that season and only went to the Liberty Bowl so there could be people at the game. LSU was 5-6 in 1990.

Again, Dan > Rockey.

 

[BigDog72.sixpack]

They finished 7-5 that season and only went to the Liberty Bowl so there could be people at the game. LSU was 5-6 in 1990.

Again, Dan > Rockey.

They may have sucked at the end of the season, but they were #8 in the country when we beat them that day.

 

[Lee Corso]

Old farts like me remember. Rockey is still here today.

 

[Strike.sixpack]

I can see how you can draw some similarities. The overall SOS for Mullen has averaged a good bit higher. And to date Mullen's worse season is the second best for Rocky. There is another problem when you get to JWS. He did a lot of great things for the school but you have to address the issue of his 5th and 6th year and put it in perspective of how Mullen is being viewed as well. Interesting thoughts though.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

Students stayed in the rain to watch us beat La Tech by seven? You don't say.***

 

[BigDog72.sixpack]

Agree with what Mullen has done to get our facilities up to the 20th century. Poor ole Rocky had to work with some really bad facilities; coaching staff made up of has bens; AD that did whatever the league told him to do i.e. home games in Tampa/Orlando.

Dan has had a much easier road with having a few years of Byrne in charge and I'm not sure I can agree with the strength of schedule. Most of the patsy's that Felker played were better teams than they are today i.e. Memphis, Tulane. And all serious home games were played in Jackson and the stadium was split against the better SEC teams.

 

[KurtRambis4]

That just

tells me they were vastly overrated. I think it's more telling where a team finishes, opposed to where they are in week 5 etc. Hell, USC was preseason #1 last year.

 

[Strike.sixpack]

Rocky did have a tougher start point than Mullen in a lot of ways. The SOS issue is strictly the average over Rocky's career vs Mullen's. It has been significantly higher under Mullen but that is mostly because he has to compete in an SEC west that can be considered the most difficult division, not just right now, but probably in history. It's hard to compare times so its just one measuring stick you can use.

 

[esplanade91]

JWS has in impressive coaching tree of his own, coached/recruited some NFL greats, and at one point was good enough of a coach to get his team to the national championship game. He was never fired anywhere until MSU for the team's performance. I think we knew what we had in JWS. I hear about how he didn't have MSU turn the corner until his 6th season but I think he earned a 6th season with his resume (insert comment about being fired for cheating everywhere on resume). Dan's list of accomplishments are actually Urban's. Am I in no way saying I think Dan should be gone, but I just think the "JWS GOT A 6TH YEAR!" argument is apples and oranges.

Assistant to HC hires should have shorter ropes. I think there are a lot of assistant type coaches that could float around .500... just look at MSU's long list of coaches and their records.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Agreed.

<nm>

 

[Philly Dawg]

This goes to show how looking at records against the top 25 if based upon the ranking at the time the game was played can be arbitrary.

 

[Philly Dawg]

Rocky won 2, 1, 0, 1, and 1 conference game in his five seasons. He was also 1-4 against Ole Miss.

And the SEC was nothing compared to today. The level of competition was not even close.

There is no serious argument in which Rocky Felker can be compared favorably to Mullen.

 

[DawgAmerica]

Yeah, I can see the similarities between Rockey and Mullen. One took over a team that was 25-31 with 1 bowl win in the previous 5 years and went 21 - 34 in 5 years, was 1 - 4 in the Egg Bowl, 5 - 28 in the SEC and appeared in no bowls. The other one took over a team that was 21 - 38 with 1 bowl win in the previous 5 years, in 4 1/2 years, his teams went 33 - 27, 3 - 1 in Egg Bowls, 14 - 22 in the SEC, and 2 -1 in bowl games.


Eerily similar!

Oh yeah, one played 0 current or eventual national champions. The other played either the current or the eventual national champ or both EVERY single year.

PS. Not knocking Rockey, he is a great ambassador for our school... but come on with this comparison of the two coaching tenures...

 

[BigDog72.sixpack]

Has Dan beaten a top 10 team??? NO!

Has Dan beaten a top 20 team??? NO!

Did Dan have LT as his AD??? NO!

Did Dan have to play 2 home games in the state of Florida??? NO!

As for where the SEC was then, you can't make that same argument. Football was totally different. You didn't have recruiting sites covering every time a 5 star player takes a ****. You only had word of mouth. Ref's would hep out those teams in the conference that hep'ed the conference i.e. the moneymakers. We were a homecoming game to most of the teams in the SEC and LT was fine keeping us that way as long as it didn't cause conflict. Again, Freeze has done it in year 2 that which Danny Boy has yet to accomplish in year 5. What say all of ye if Freeze beats Missouri?

 

[maroonmadman]

The BIG difference between Dan and Rockey is that Rockey was one of us. He was True Maroon. He had given his blood, sweat and tears to the program. When Rockey didn't succeed as a coach and we had to fire him, it hurt. If we have to can Dan it won't make much of a damn, feelings wise, just another coach in a long line of coaches at Dear Ole State.
Record wise and as far as coaching ability, or lack thereof, they are pretty much the same, so far.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Using your previous bad logic re: Tennessee #8, you're wrong regarding lack of top 20 wins. Ole Miss was ranked #20 in 2009 when State defeated them in the Egg Bowl.

And they even finished the season ranked #20 in one poll.

Link.

Has Dan beaten a top 20 team??? NO!

 

[Philly Dawg]

Great first post.

 

[BigDog72.sixpack]

Using your previous bad logic re: Tennessee #8, you're wrong regarding lack of top 20 wins. Ole Miss was ranked #20 in 2009 when State defeated them in the Egg Bowl.

And they even finished the season ranked #20 in one poll.

Link.

But using your same bad logic, that Ole Miss team was a bad team as well.

 

[STATELAW]

+1

 

[Shamoan]

cut the guy some slack...he is making multiple comparisons on various levels. is it a PERFECT comparison? no, but what is? he is pointing out some parallels....age, sideline demeanor, a slide to mediocrity after a decent start. i agree with the criticisms as well because this is a very different landscape than what felker coached against and its a brutal modern landscape, but im kind of sold on the facts that there are some similarities. its not a perfect parallel and dan has done a better job in probably more challenging circumstances, but our ooc slate was also more difficult back in those days. there is validity to both sides, but the op is right in that similarities can be drawn between the two.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I never said that Ole Miss was a bad team...

I said that Tennessee was overrated because they finished the season 7-5 (with a Liberty Bowl win, I might add and unranked). Ole Miss finished the season ranked 20th according to the AP poll. Compared to their ranking of 4th before they played South Carolina, yes, Ole Miss was overrated then but certainly not a bad team since they finished with a 9-4 record and consecutive Cotton Bowl wins (cue the Houston Nutt 50 years comments).

I did, however, say your logic is bad.

 

[Digging dog]

Rocky put in a decent year then proceeded to repeatedly **** the bed.
Mullen has fallen off this and half of last year.

 

[DawgAmerica]

cut the guy some slack...he is making multiple comparisons on various levels. is it a PERFECT comparison? no, but what is? he is pointing out some parallels....age, sideline demeanor, a slide to mediocrity after a decent start. i agree with the criticisms as well because this is a very different landscape than what felker coached against and its a brutal modern landscape, but im kind of sold on the facts that there are some similarities. its not a perfect parallel and dan has done a better job in probably more challenging circumstances, but our ooc slate was also more difficult back in those days. there is validity to both sides, but the op is right in that similarities can be drawn between the two.

Ok, more comparisons:

Rockey:

1[SUP]st[/SUP] year 6 – 5 (decent start) and then 15 – 29 (slide to mediocrity)
3 – 19 (14%) vs UF, UT, UA, AU, LSU
2 – 6 (25%) vs VU, UK, TSUN
Shut out 6 times

Mullen:

1[SUP]st[/SUP] year 5 – 7 (decent start) and then 28 – 19 (slide to mediocrity)
3 - 12 (20%) vs. UF, UT, UA, AU, LSU
9 – 1 (90%) vs. VU, UK, TSUN
Shut out 0 times

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I'd go so far to break down UK, VU, UM like so:

Rockey vs. UK/VU: 1-2
Rockey vs. Ole Miss: 1-4

Dan vs. UK/VU: 6-0
Dan vs. Ole Miss: 3-1

 

[was21]

Felker was a decent recruiter (Sherrill won with his recruits), soso coach, and a terrible communicator. Mullen definitely had much better credentials. I don't really see much of a parallel between the two other than they were both young untested head coaches. Mullen has been much more successful as far as wins/losses. It seems like comparing apples and oranges, a lot of things have changed over the years.

 

[Philly Dawg]

I don't think 15-29 is mediocrity. That is garbage-ocrity. And it wasn't so much a slide as falling off a cliff. Don't forget that in 1986 we were 6-1 and lost the last four, including the Egg Bowl, by a combined score of 12-144.

p.s. For a long time, even up till recently, we always had our schedule back loaded.