Dare I call it……PEAKING!!!!!!

[MSU158]

Okay, so replace “Criteria” with “Threshold” in my previous post. They objectively missed your threshold.

In your subjective opinion, seven AA and one finalist is just as good as six AA and one finalist. But the fact remains that, objectively, they did not meet your threshold.

imo you are the one being obtuse, refusing to understand the difference between objective and subjective.

In the sake of the most objective thing possible. Answer this honestly:

Which eventuality scores more points? 2 Finalists and 4-8ths, 6-5ths or the 7 AA’s and 2 R12’s that scored 92.5.

If you can’t or don’t answer the above we are done with this discussion. Permanently. I have a VERY strong feeling you obfuscate and DO NOT answer…

 

[Wilbur Kookmeyer]

In the sake of the most objective thing possible. Answer this honestly:

Which eventuality scores more points? 2 Finalists and 4-8ths, 6-5ths or the 7 AA’s and 2 R12’s that scored 92.5.

If you can’t or don’t answer the above we are done with this discussion. Permanently. I have a VERY strong feeling you obfuscate and DO NOT answer…

So quick to take your ball and go home?

....must be another adrenaline dump.

I must say, the dissertations you write attempting to backtrack are amusing me. I don't recall seeing such a fragile ego on any wrestling forum in a while.

 

[Mattski]

Are you saying I didn't specify, WAY BEFORE THE TOURNAMENT, "OR" 6 top 5's??? You seem to be COMPLETELY ignoring that fact. Hell, I even gave basic math SHOWING how 92.5 points scored is WAYYYY above that threshold, EITHER WAY.

You are arguing like it was a prediction instead of a threshold. If each thing doesn't happen EXACTLY, then I am wrong. That is NOT what it was. I said threshold a bunch of times in that thread. 7 AA's and the MAKEUP of those 7 AA's EASILY exceeded that THRESHOLD.

Even IF you went hardline about the 2 Finalists with 6 total AA's, Kennedy taking 3rd instead of 2nd is a whopping 2 points. 7th place is 4 points. That doesn't even count Arnold's advancement points. At the BARE MINIMUM, they scored 20+ points more than my threshold and it really is over 30 if you simply do the basic math...


Since you are hung up so hard on the 2 Finalists thing, are you really saying that 2nd, 2nd, 8th, 8th, 8th and 8th is better than 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 5th, 6th, 6th and 7th???? Because, THAT is the ACTUAL argument....

Did they have six top 5s? Yes or no.

 

[MSU158]

Did they have six top 5s? Yes or no.

Nope. But that isn’t the question and you damn well know it. The question is did they do that or BETTER? I have clearly and inarguably shown that.

Each placement is assigned a point value. When you take those points and add them up are they less or more than what Iowa ACTUALLY accomplished? For all the parsing THAT is all that matters. They OUTSCORED BOTH. Didn’t they???? By how much???

No matter how you guys want to say it 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 5th, 6th, 6th, 7th, R12 and R12 is DEMONSTRABLY better than both. Hell with 2 Finalists and 4-8ths they outscored that by 38.5 points. 6-5ths they outscored by 32.5 points.

Come on guys do the damn math.

 

[MSU158]

So quick to take your ball and go home?

....must be another adrenaline dump.

I must say, the dissertations you write attempting to backtrack are amusing me. I don't recall seeing such a fragile ego on any wrestling forum in a while.

This may be the biggest twist of what is actually happening there could possibly be. The math is inarguably simple. 7AA’s is more than 6. Those 7AA’s out scored both scenarios by over 30 points.

That isn’t me backtracking that is me LItERALLY taking the points Iowa scored(92.5) and substracting the point totals for both scenarios. The minimum number for 6AA’s with 2 Finalists is 32+22=54. The minimum point total for 6 AA’s all placing 5th is 60.

Here is a great 2nd grade math question. What number is greater? 54, 60 or 92.5?

Once answered this argument is over, as it should have been right when the NCAA Tournament was over….

 

[PUR158]

This may be the biggest twist of what is actually happen there could possibly be. The math is inarguably simple. 7AA’s is more than 6. Those 7AA’s out scored both scenarios by over 30 points.

That isn’t me backtracking that is me LItERALLY taking the points Iowa scored(92.5) and substracting the point totals for both scenarios. The minimum number for 6AA’s with 2 Finalists is 32+22=54. The minimum point total for 6 AA’s all placing 5th is 60.

Here is a great 2nd grade math question. What number is greater? 54, 60 or 92.5?

Once answered this argument is over, as it should have been right when the NCAA Tournament was over….

 

[ArtRadley]

In the sake of the most objective thing possible. Answer this honestly:

Which eventuality scores more points? 2 Finalists and 4-8ths, 6-5ths or the 7 AA’s and 2 R12’s that scored 92.5.

If you can’t or don’t answer the above we are done with this discussion. Permanently. I have a VERY strong feeling you obfuscate and DO NOT answer…

I don’t know how many ways I can put this:

I dont care. That is completely unrelated to my very plainly written point.

 

[MSU158]

My auto-reply for this topic will now be see post #205.

 

[MSU158]

I don’t know how many ways I can put this:

I dont care. That is completely unrelated to my very plainly written point.

See post #205

 

[PUR158]

My auto-reply for this topic will now be see post #205.

Here to help

 

[Wilbur Kookmeyer]

This may be the biggest twist of what is actually happening there could possibly be. The math is inarguably simple. 7AA’s is more than 6. Those 7AA’s out scored both scenarios by over 30 points.

That isn’t me backtracking that is me LItERALLY taking the points Iowa scored(92.5) and substracting the point totals for both scenarios. The minimum number for 6AA’s with 2 Finalists is 32+22=54. The minimum point total for 6 AA’s all placing 5th is 60.

Here is a great 2nd grade math question. What number is greater? 54, 60 or 92.5?

Once answered this argument is over, as it should have been right when the NCAA Tournament was over….

Now THAT'S some serious backtracking!

Pretty impressive the lengths you go to in order to protect your fragile ego.

Write us another novel about it, my new snowflake friend. Proceed...

 

[MSU158]

Now THAT'S some serious backtracking!

Pretty impressive the lengths you go to in order to protect your fragile ego.

Write us another novel about it, my new snowflake friend. Proceed...

See post #205

 

[Wilbur Kookmeyer]

See post #205

No can do, snowflake.

 

[ArtRadley]

See post #205

Is English your first language?

 

[Trakker]

So quick to take your ball and go home?

....must be another adrenaline dump.

I must say, the dissertations you write attempting to backtrack are amusing me. I don't recall seeing such a fragile ego on any wrestling forum in a while.

He doesnt like tuff message boarding.

 

[MSU158]

Is English your first language?

See post #205

 

[MSU158]

He doesnt like tuff message boarding.

See post #205

 

[Gobblin]

Yes we did I forgot about that. It was probably a day I was fed up with the BS and was firing back and misread what you said. I made something about me when it wasn't if I remember right. You were a good sport and moved on.

Can't believe people actually spend time trying to figure out who you actually are .

Right?!? What a loser!

 

[ArtRadley]

See post #205

Completely
Unrelated
To
My
Point

 

[MSU158]

Completely
Unrelated
To
My
Point

See post #205

 

[HugoHugo]

This may be the biggest twist of what is actually happening there could possibly be. The math is inarguably simple. 7AA’s is more than 6. Those 7AA’s out scored both scenarios by over 30 points.

That isn’t me backtracking that is me LItERALLY taking the points Iowa scored(92.5) and substracting the point totals for both scenarios. The minimum number for 6AA’s with 2 Finalists is 32+22=54. The minimum point total for 6 AA’s all placing 5th is 60.

Here is a great 2nd grade math question. What number is greater? 54, 60 or 92.5?

Once answered this argument is over, as it should have been right when the NCAA Tournament was over….

Where in your “threshold / criteria / bottom bar” posts prior to Nationals do you indicate anything about points scored??

Here is a hint - YOU DIDNT. You added them to try and red herring your way out of a no win situation (other than coming clean).

 

[whejoe]

Someone should create a poll so we can vote on who is winning the debate between MSU and Art.

#205

 

[Corby2]

Right?!? What a loser!

Was told who you were years ago in conversation and actually forgot until I was reminded

 

[Gobblin]

Was told who you were years ago in conversation

B1Gs at Rutgers by chance? Lmao.

 

[Corby2]

B1Gs at Rutgers by chance? Lmao.

I'm actually not sure but it was at an event.

 

[MSU158]

Where in your “threshold / criteria / bottom bar” posts prior to Nationals do you indicate anything about points scored??

Here is a hint - YOU DIDNT. You added them to try and red herring your way out of a no win situation (other than coming clean).

I will skirt my auto response for this ridiculously stupid take to point out that the ONLY way to accurately compare placements is to use the point value each placement gets that literally determines how the teams place at NCAA’s. I didn’t think I would need to clarify point values for placements when that is literally how every NCAA placement has been determined in the modern era. They don’t count how many AA’s each team had and then argue which is better do they? No, they ADD up the points each placement scores. Please don’t be this stupid…


This clearly and definitely shows that Iowa’s results were better than the threshold I set.

if you don’t believe me….see post #205….

 

[Mattski]

Nope. But that isn’t the question and you damn well know it. The question is did they do that or BETTER? I have clearly and inarguably shown that.

Each placement is assigned a point value. When you take those points and add them up are they less or more than what Iowa ACTUALLY accomplished? For all the parsing THAT is all that matters. They OUTSCORED BOTH. Didn’t they???? By how much???

No matter how you guys want to say it 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 5th, 6th, 6th, 7th, R12 and R12 is DEMONSTRABLY better than both. Hell with 2 Finalists and 4-8ths they outscored that by 38.5 points. 6-5ths they outscored by 32.5 points.

Come on guys do the damn math.

They didn't have two finalists OR six in the top five. You can twist and turn every which way but in the end they didn't meet 2 of your 3 metrics. I'd 100% rather have 2 finalists and 6 in the top 5 then an extra guy take 7th. I want to watch Hawkeyes in the championships on Saturday night.
I just have to laugh at someone who posts about being willing to find middle ground then being so dug in on this simple fact.
The middle ground is right in front of your face... 7 guys all American'd which exceeded expectations BUT there was only 1 finalist and five in the top five so the "top end" performance wasn't there... A fact that is by and large the biggest frustration with the current staff, which is likely why you're so adamantly fighting it.

 

[MSU158]

They didn't have two finalists OR six in the top five. You can twist and turn every which way but in the end they didn't meet 2 of your 3 metrics. I'd 100% rather have 2 finalists and 6 in the top 5 then an extra guy trashed 7th.
I just have to laugh at someone who posts about being willing to find middle ground then being so dug in on this simple fact.
The middle ground is right in front of your face... 7 guys all American'd which exceeded expectations BUT there was only 1 finalist and five in the top five so the "top end" performance wasn't there (which btw is by and large the biggest frustration with the current staff).

First off, this specific “middle ground” would be outscoring the threshold I set by 16 instead of 32.5.

The middle ground I was willing to accept is that 4th still isn’t good enough. I understand that part and agree that there still needs to be a push for more.

However, if you can’t see past the argument with me and agree that what all 9 guys did as a whole was better OVERALL than the threshold I set, YOU are then the one not willing to move.

I mean come on, they scored 92.5. 2-2nds and 4-3rds scores 86 without bonus. How can you guys not at least admit that they DID better than what I asked for?

You can still argue that even then, it wasn’t enough. They still took 4th. But, it is completely disingenuous and flat out wrong to not at least admit that they exceeded my threshold.

It can’t be more plain. I literally just showed that it would take 2-2nds and 4-3rds along with SEVEN bonus points to beat what Iowa did by half a point and even that would be only because they were penalized a team point.

Come on man. don’t make me have to go back to. See post #205….

 

[Reiterate]

Now THAT'S some serious backtracking!

Pretty impressive the lengths you go to in order to protect your fragile ego.

Write us another novel about it, my new snowflake friend. Proceed...

The time to unplug AI is when they start reaçting with anxiety. He definitely has had some glitches with some of his responses since Nationals. He might get dangerous soon.

 

[Upstream123]

First off, this specific “middle ground” would be outscoring the threshold I set by 16 instead of 32.5.

The middle ground I was willing to accept is that 4th still isn’t good enough. I understand that part and agree that there still needs to be a push for more.

However, if you can’t see past the argument with me and agree that what all 9 guys did as a whole was better OVERALL than the threshold I set, YOU are then the one not willing to move.

I mean come on, they scored 92.5. 2-2nds and 4-3rds scores 86 without bonus. How can you guys not at least admit that they DID better than what I asked for?

You can still argue that even then, it wasn’t enough. They still took 4th. But, it is completely disingenuous and flat out wrong to not at least admit that they exceeded my threshold.

It can’t be more plain. I literally just showed that it would take 2-2nds and 4-3rds along with SEVEN bonus points to beat what Iowa did by half a point and even that would be only because they were penalized a team point.

Come on man. don’t make me have to go back to. See post #205….

Maybe you are an AI bot.

 

[MSU158]

Thanks for this guys. I will sleep well tonight!

See post #205.

 

[Upstream123]

Thanks for this guys. I will sleep well tonight!

See post #205.

 

[Wilbur Kookmeyer]

First off, this specific “middle ground” would be outscoring the threshold I set by 16 instead of 32.5.

The middle ground I was willing to accept is that 4th still isn’t good enough. I understand that part and agree that there still needs to be a push for more.

However, if you can’t see past the argument with me and agree that what all 9 guys did as a whole was better OVERALL than the threshold I set, YOU are then the one not willing to move.

I mean come on, they scored 92.5. 2-2nds and 4-3rds scores 86 without bonus. How can you guys not at least admit that they DID better than what I asked for?

You can still argue that even then, it wasn’t enough. They still took 4th. But, it is completely disingenuous and flat out wrong to not at least admit that they exceeded my threshold.

It can’t be more plain. I literally just showed that it would take 2-2nds and 4-3rds along with SEVEN bonus points to beat what Iowa did by half a point and even that would be only because they were penalized a team point.

Come on man. don’t make me have to go back to. See post #205….

That's quite a novel. You're clearly not rattled at all. See post #202....

 

[Mattski]

First off, this specific “middle ground” would be outscoring the threshold I set by 16 instead of 32.5.

The middle ground I was willing to accept is that 4th still isn’t good enough. I understand that part and agree that there still needs to be a push for more.

However, if you can’t see past the argument with me and agree that what all 9 guys did as a whole was better OVERALL than the threshold I set, YOU are then the one not willing to move.

I mean come on, they scored 92.5. 2-2nds and 4-3rds scores 86 without bonus. How can you guys not at least admit that they DID better than what I asked for?

You can still argue that even then, it wasn’t enough. They still took 4th. But, it is completely disingenuous and flat out wrong to not at least admit that they exceeded my threshold.

It can’t be more plain. I literally just showed that it would take 2-2nds and 4-3rds along with SEVEN bonus points to beat what Iowa did by half a point and even that would be only because they were penalized a team point.

Come on man. don’t make me have to go back to. See post #205….

I see your point and I'm with you on agreeing they exceeded expectations with 7 AAs. I didn't think they'd get that many.
I'm not getting into the points playing game bc there's too much variability. Hell maybe if we don't lose an extra qtr final and semi match we don't throw hissy fits and lose 2 team points.
Maybe if we have more guys capable of making a finals and placing top 5, those same guys score more bonus points.
I'm in agreement as a whole they wrestled better than I thought they would. But having 0 champions and seeing the gap widen between Iowa and the now clear top 2 isn't remotely worth celebrating.

 

[jakgray]

You guys sound like a couple teenage girls.

Who cares your both idiots, but the psu board will love you both.

 

[Random4598375]

I will skirt my auto response for this ridiculously stupid take to point out that the ONLY way to accurately compare placements is to use the point value each placement gets that literally determines how the teams place at NCAA’s. I didn’t think I would need to clarify point values for placements when that is literally how every NCAA placement has been determined in the modern era. They don’t count how many AA’s each team had and then argue which is better do they? No, they ADD up the points each placement scores. Please don’t be this stupid…


This clearly and definitely shows that Iowa’s results were better than the threshold I set.

if you don’t believe me….see post #205….

That is definitely NOT the “only way to accurately compare placements”, especially if the difference is whether you finish 95 points behind or 100. LOL.

Given that winning is not possible, it’s reasonable for someone to judge their performance on getting a champion or two to celebrate or beating PSU or Ok St in big matches or something like that instead of quibbling about 5 placement points that don’t materially change anything.

 

[FlyingLion]

Thanks for this guys. I will sleep well tonight!

See post #205.

MSU205?

 

[LIV4GOD]

They didn't have two finalists OR six in the top five. You can twist and turn every which way but in the end they didn't meet 2 of your 3 metrics. I'd 100% rather have 2 finalists and 6 in the top 5 then an extra guy take 7th. I want to watch Hawkeyes in the championships on Saturday night.

This is irrefutable . . . yet the attemps are made.

 

[MSU158]

This is irrefutable . . . yet the attemps are made.

see post #205. Also, how annoyed are you? Attemps is actually spelled attempts. Just looking our for ya, bro!

 

[Misalorales]

First off, this specific “middle ground” would be outscoring the threshold I set by 16 instead of 32.5.

The middle ground I was willing to accept is that 4th still isn’t good enough. I understand that part and agree that there still needs to be a push for more.

However, if you can’t see past the argument with me and agree that what all 9 guys did as a whole was better OVERALL than the threshold I set, YOU are then the one not willing to move.

I mean come on, they scored 92.5. 2-2nds and 4-3rds scores 86 without bonus. How can you guys not at least admit that they DID better than what I asked for?

You can still argue that even then, it wasn’t enough. They still took 4th. But, it is completely disingenuous and flat out wrong to not at least admit that they exceeded my threshold.

It can’t be more plain. I literally just showed that it would take 2-2nds and 4-3rds along with SEVEN bonus points to beat what Iowa did by half a point and even that would be only because they were penalized a team point.

Come on man. don’t make me have to go back to. See post #205….

I got bored so

6 top 5:
Three 5th places, Two 4th places & a runner up is roughly 69.5 placement + advancement points +/- a little because of different paths to those places.

* I have the runner up in there because even though you said 6 top 5, I refuse to accept caliendo not making the finals would be anything but a "disappointment" for Hawkeye fans per his expectations.

Iowa's 7 AAs had 70 placement+advancement points.

From a placement and advancement standpoint what they did with 9 guys is essentially identical to what you drew as the absolute low bar with 6 top 5 AAs.

So I guess yes, they matched your bottom end expectations, almost exactly.

* Correct where my math is wrong as it gets tricky to start projecting the exact advancement points due to a myriad of different paths to those placements. I did the best I could based off what the average guy scored minus bonus for 5th or 4th.

Either way, one side is saying they didn't match your expectations at all, you're saying they exceeded your expectations. It would appear they matched exactly your lowest bar. As with most things on message boards, each side has a point and neither is willing to see the others. The fact this is a heated debate would tell me the season, as a whole, did not live up to expectation.