Day 1 Session 2 Thread

[Nashville_Hawk]

How many years have I been posting on here? How may appreciation posts have I made by myself? How many times I have explained in GREAT DETAIL how I became an Iowa fan and why?

Your narrative is pure deflection. Yes, I would love to see MSU all of a sudden become a force. I spent a large portion of my life dedicated to that. However, that doesn't mean I don't want the absolute best for Iowa as well.

As far as class goes, I am not one that insults or asks for others to play in traffic. I make it a point to try to ONLY deconstruct the argument and not the person. Insulting a person based on what they post on a message board is beyond weak.

Now you're just being a dumbaSS. Clearly I have no intention of anyone realistically playing in traffic; it's a hyperbole for God's sake. As for my narrative being pure deflection, please elaborate. I'm not deflecting a bit. As for whether you want Iowa to do well, I have mixed emotions. You clearly want Tom to do well, and I respect and appreciate that. At the same time you don't seem as concerned with Iowa doing well, and that's what sets you apart. You'll defend Tom till the cows come home but I don't see you defending the program. We all love Tom but the program is bigger than him. We can't keep getting farther and farther behind and be OK with it. And despite our successful Thursday, the fact is that we are getting farther and farther behind, despite the argument you will obviously come back with. And next year will be even worse barring some amazing portal success and significant room improvements from our new 125 and 197 pounders.

 

[TheREALSpooner]

The Michigan State fan reference is getting very old and tired.

Maybe to you, but given how well the shoe fits, to the rest of us it isn’t. So appropriate.

Your ability to put words in other people’s mouths, and twist you own, would be more impressive if more people fell for it.

 

[Slim45]

this thread:

 

[TheREALSpooner]

They have 7 guys already guaranteed the R12.

Celebrating R12 ~ Celebrating Iowa finishing 5

I applaud your consistency.

 

[Corby2]

Corby, for the love of God please go pester some other team. By all means, please come back after the tournament and tell us how you knew this and that and how smart you are and have been, but until then please STFU. You and MSU are trying to be coolers like Vegas guys. You talk it up but you really want us to fail. I promise I wish you no harm whatsoever, but if you could go play in traffic for a day or two - don't get hit - I would not be disappointed. You and your cousin, MSU, do nothing but talk sh*t and pretend that you care and perhaps even want us to do well. But you don't and you never have....you're simply being dickheads.

Just got back from playing chicken and what do you know I won . You've no clue what I wish for or who I want to do good or bad. Maybe someday in a few years I will fill you in. But you're definitely lost. Until then keep having weird thoughts about me

 

[Corby2]

The "March peaking" comment may be a bit premature early on Friday morning before the third session.

The Hawks have wrestled up to this point as most have thought they would. The wrestling about to occur in 4 hours will really tell the tale. They are set up and poised to do well, but they will actually need to do it. Lots of tough matchups, but if they avenge some earlier season losses, that will go a long way in solidifying your "peaking" assumption. Too early to say that right now.

So they don't look the best they've all year? Isn't that what's supposed to happen? You guys bitched about no offense all year long and they scored points. Some of you guys will never be happy

 

[MSU158]

Maybe to you, but given how well the shoe fits, to the rest of us it isn’t. So appropriate.

Your ability to put words in other people’s mouths, and twist you own, would be more impressive if more people fell for it.

Lol, I didn't put ANY words into ANY mouths. The poll you HATE proved that. As far as twisting my words go, I am the ONLY one that set a clear bar for their results at this tournament. NO ONE else did because it leaves them the room to keep their feeling, regardless of what happens.

But, hey, feel free to be you. If there is anyone on here more obstinate, I haven't read their posts...

 

[Slim45]

So they don't look the best they've all year? Isn't that what's supposed to happen? You guys bitched about no offense all year long and they scored points. Some of you guys will never be happy

Did any of our wrestlers besides Block even give up a takedown yesterday? And i think Campos is the only one Ferrari has given up more than a 1 point “move” against in his career with the 2 reversals…still yet to give up a td

 

[AndreTheHawk]

That is truly ridiculous. The way many on here were acting during the season they ABSOLUTELY expected them to fall on their faces in March.

It is CLEARLY UNDENIABLE that they have wrestled WAY better in March. The argument for me has never been that they are a team that can meet the expectations of the most rabid somehow expecting Iowa to be competitive with PSU or running away with 2nd place. Once they lost Endenne that simply was NOT going to happen.

My SOLE point has been that they are a MUCH better team than many on here have portrayed. They have absolutely already proven that. Now, they can show just how much better they are.

2 Finalist and at least 6 AA’s is going to be really difficult with how hard the path to to Finals are for everyone, but I can definitely see 6 top 5’s and maybe even 7 total AA’s. To me that is still a damn good season…

Way better in March? C'mon Man, they wrestled decent on Day 1, I'll give them that. But they had nowhere to go but up.

This morning round is where the poor regular season work and these poor seeds likely catch up with them. But they wrestle the matches for a reason, so we'll see.
Go Hawks!

 

[Hawkfan1986]

The Michigan State fan reference is getting very old and tired. When I wrestled we were actually a top 10 program. Once I graduated you could see how quickly it fell. I tried a LOT to do anything I could to stop that from happening. However, it was made VERY CLEAR that the Athletic Department was NOT going to do anything to try to keep the fall from happening. Then, once Nasser happened, the entire department was decimated and, while trying to haphazardly pick of the pieces, they took a very basic approach with nearly every program. If Izzo left, even basketball would have fallen. All they want from fringe sports is retain them, graduate them and keep them out of trouble...

The simple truth is, if you don't have 100%, unwavering support from the Athletic Department to do EVERYTHING possible to make you the best program possible it CANNOT happen. By much of what I have heard, Iowa is not getting this from the top. Now, even 80% support is enough at Iowa to stay ahead of all but a handful of teams.

My contention has NEVER been about fans wanting more. It is that I think much of their focus on NOT getting it is misplaced. Everyone is solely blaming Brands, because it is the easiest thing. Blame the coach. I keep saying the issues go deeper than that and none of the Anti-Brands detractors want to believe that for a second, because it kills the entire narrative.

TO BE CRYSTAL CLEAR, I fully endorse wanting your team to win. My argument is very specifically focused on 2 parts: 1: Calling top 5 "average" or "mediocre", which is an incredible insult to 95% of DI wrestling. It is fine to not be happy with that finish, but it is NOWHERE near average or mediocre. DI wrestlers are the absolute best of the best. Many backups could transfer to lesser divisions and AA or even win titles. 2: Thinking you can simply fire a coach like Brands and hire a new coach that is guaranteed to do better simply because you are Iowa. This is especially true when there isn't a SINGLE CLEAR CANDIDATE out there. Hell, I often disagree with Willie, but even he came on here blasting fans for most of the names they believe would jump right in and do better...

I’m fully okay with insulting 95% of d1 wrestling thinking that Iowa should be better than a top 5 program. They should be, hell they should be better.

I understand your argument I just completely disagree that it should be acceptable at Iowa. Tom says all the time that he wants world and Olympic champs. To get those you usually need an NCAA champion first. Iowa is lacking in all three of those areas the past 15 years.

saying that Iowa having a top five wrestling team is sad. Drop a few more spots and we’re on the verge of being irrelevant. Iowa wrestling is one of if not the most popular wrestling brand in America. But that light is starting to dim.

Being and Iowan and a pretty darn good wrestler myself I took pride in knowing that ever year Iowa was going to contend on the national and world stage. In a state like Iowa having a dominant wrestling program matters. It matters a great deal.

That’s what’s leaving every year we fall further behind. Our greatest rival now laps us in terms of scoring at nationals. We’ve had 15 years to figure it out. We haven’t.

Accepting that psu is better and will always be better than Iowa so long as Cael is there is loser talk, and it is that kind of apathy that will eventually murder this once proud program. I worry that we are close to that now. That’s why I will never stop rooting for them to be better.

Enjoy your Friday, go hawks.

 

[MSU158]

I’m fully okay with insulting 95% of d1 wrestling thinking that Iowa should be better than a top 5 program. They should be, hell they should be better.

I understand your argument I just completely disagree that it should be acceptable at Iowa. Tom says all the time that he wants world and Olympic champs. To get those you usually need an NCAA champion first. Iowa is lacking in all three of those areas the past 15 years.

saying that Iowa having a top five wrestling team is sad. Drop a few more spots and we’re on the verge of being irrelevant. Iowa wrestling is one of if not the most popular wrestling brand in America. But that light is starting to dim.

Being and Iowan and a pretty darn good wrestler myself I took pride in knowing that ever year Iowa was going to contend on the national and world stage. In a state like Iowa having a dominant wrestling program matters. It matters a great deal.

That’s what’s leaving every year we fall further behind. Our greatest rival now laps us in terms of scoring at nationals. We’ve had 15 years to figure it out. We haven’t.

Accepting that psu is better and will always be better than Iowa so long as Cael is there is loser talk, and it is that kind of apathy that will eventually murder this once proud program. I worry that we are close to that now. That’s why I will never stop rooting for them to be better.

Enjoy your Friday, go hawks.

Maybe you aren't even one of the guys doing the first part. Intent of the specific words is nearly impossible to glean on a message board.

Again, I am not saying that every Iowa fan shouldn't want more. My issue is with the way blame is placed and how simple many think it is to get better. The most ludicrous thing of all is blaming Brands for what PSU has become. I DO NOT CARE what coach was at Iowa, mind you there has NOT been anyone out there to would have done better, until DT showed up, because a billionaire footed his every bill, which I do NOT believe Iowa was ever going to do.

Sanderson and PSU coming together was the perfect storm in every way possible. They gave the biggest name in wrestling, coming from a wrestling family with a great coaching pedigree, every possible resource to succeed. PSU was a sleeping giant located right in the middle of the best high school wrestling in the country. He put together the best coaching staff possible, recruited like no one ever has before and developed a room so good that he was quickly able to fill an RTC, also like no other.

I simply HAVE NOT seen a way for anyone to truly be close to PSU and I firmly believe even DT will fall short for quite some time until Sanderson gets bored and retires, some major rule change happens, or some sort of serious, unblockable scandal occurs.

 

[MSU158]

Way better in March? C'mon Man, they wrestled decent on Day 1, I'll give them that. But they had nowhere to go but up.

This morning round is where the poor regular season work and these poor seeds likely catch up with them. But they wrestle the matches for a reason, so we'll see.
Go Hawks!

You do realize B1G's was in March, correct?

 

[Corby2]

You do realize B1G's was in March, correct?

Msu these people would cry if Iowa had 10 in the 1/4. No sense in even discussing it with them anymore. Some people just live miserable lives and can only be negative.

 

[AndreTheHawk]

You do realize B1G's was in March, correct?

Oh, my bad. I quickly forgot how we dominated the Big Ten Tournament!

 

[Nashville_Hawk]

You do realize B1G's was in March, correct?

I'm sure he had no idea. Seriously??

 

[Mattski]

Either you can't read and comprehend, or you are 100% intentionally deflecting. I don't want to believe you are that slow, so I will go with the latter. I am not saying 2 matches is enough, but, so far, it is a huge step up from the regular season.

Peaking, to be clear, is wrestling your best at a specific point in time. Compared to the regular season, how is ANYONE arguing against me on this?

Look, you can 100% argue that even when they are peaking, they aren't good enough for what you expect. That isn't what I am arguing against. From early in the season, I made it a point to push out the hypocrisy that cared NOTHING for Iowa basically winning every dual, other than PSU, for years on end, only to critique the NCAA performance. Now that they finally had a bad regular season, all of a sudden the regular season matters. So, seeing them actually wrestle way better in March, they clearly did at B1G's and so far at NCAA's, you want to deflect on that, waiting until they have matches against much better wrestlers, they are supposed to lose to.

They have 7 guys already guaranteed the R12. If I said that would happen a couple of months ago, you and your brethren would have been all over me nonstop...

Its bc you're simply wrong and making completely false assertions over and over.
They took 4th at the big10 tourney, .5 pts ahead of 5th. Nothing about that or winning expected matches on Thursday at nationals proves they're wrestling "far better" than expected in March.
Look everyone knows your game at this point... Keep kicking the can to March before agreeing the program is in decline then IF they perform poorly you'll either run away and hide or blame injuries/Endene leaving blah blah blah.
I hope like hell they find something extra today and tomorrow but we've seen this play out too many times under this staff to really believe it's likely. Either way I'll be pulling for our guys every match like always.

 

[Hawkfan1986]

Maybe you aren't even one of the guys doing the first part. Intent of the specific words is nearly impossible to glean on a message board.

Again, I am not saying that every Iowa fan shouldn't want more. My issue is with the way blame is placed and how simple many think it is to get better. The most ludicrous thing of all is blaming Brands for what PSU has become. I DO NOT CARE what coach was at Iowa, mind you there has NOT been anyone out there to would have done better, until DT showed up, because a billionaire footed his every bill, which I do NOT believe Iowa was ever going to do.

Sanderson and PSU coming together was the perfect storm in every way possible. They gave the biggest name in wrestling, coming from a wrestling family with a great coaching pedigree, every possible resource to succeed. PSU was a sleeping giant located right in the middle of the best high school wrestling in the country. He put together the best coaching staff possible, recruited like no one ever has before and developed a room so good that he was quickly able to fill an RTC, also like no other.

I simply HAVE NOT seen a way for anyone to truly be close to PSU and I firmly believe even DT will fall short for quite some time until Sanderson gets bored and retires, some major rule change happens, or some sort of serious, unblockable scandal occurs.

Then I hope you’re not in charge of our next coaching search. I’m pretty confident you are not Beth Goetz so I can sleep easy on that one.

just because you don’t see a way of closing the gap between Iowa and psu doesn’t mean that a way doesn’t exist.

I do not blame brands for what psu has become. I’m one of the few on this board that will give credit to the great boring Cael Sanderson. He is clearly an excellent coach, with a great staff, and a good eye for talent. I do blame tom for not realizing quickly enough that changes needed to occur because we were falling behind. I believe we gave Cael a 6 year head start. I believe 2010 should have terrified Tom and his staff.

I think there were many recruits that wanted to come to Iowa that were not contacted. I believe that tom thought that if they wanted to come to Iowa they’d reach out to him. Kids have changed, and Tom’s hubris set our recruiting back.

Our last national championship we won because we had a deeper team than psu, though you could argue that psu won Saturday night crowing 4 individual champs. From that time onwards Cael has adjusted. He’s now got a lineup of killers. That’s how quickly Cael adjusted. It took two years of Iowa being a deeper and better tournament team. Cael said f that, watch this. I’ll break the pts record, then I’ll do it again.

 

[blcoach80]

The peak is supposed to be for the entire tournament, not just a specific day...Also, all peaking means is to be wrestling at your best. It doesn't require you to beat undefeated returning NCAA Champs...

This. Sometimes your "peak" just isn't good enough.

 

[huntinghawk]

Sure, and all of that means nothing if we don't score massive upsets tomorrow morning. Whatever the reason, we underperformed most of the year and as a result we earned seeds that gave us terrible 1/4 final matchups.

If this were a 1 day event I guess we could take our 3rd place trophy and go home. But it's 3 days. Job not finished.

Some of the whiners could at least wait until tourneys over.

 

[HugoHugo]

So they don't look the best they've all year? Isn't that what's supposed to happen? You guys bitched about no offense all year long and they scored points. Some of you guys will never be happy

They wrestled well yesterday but let's not forget that the today and tomorrow will really define whether or not they are "peaking". A couple early round wins at nationals is nothing to throw a party for.

Let's see where the dust settles after this afternoon and this evening. I will order the cake and ice cream.

 

[azchief32]

Like I said above, job not finished.
Going 15-2 on Thursday means nothing if we don't get a handful of guys into the semis.

This isn't your first rodeo at nationals, you know this. Why are long-time fans suddenly acting like a good Thursday is a great performance? We're suppose to win these matches.

I know we're not winning this thing but I'm not going to start flexing on being 3rd place on Thursday night.

Well I’m so glad to have you around as the board Morale Monitor

 

[MSU158]

Msu these people would cry if Iowa had 10 in the 1/4. No sense in even discussing it with them anymore. Some people just live miserable lives and can only be negative.

Most of the time it is just fun for me. But, I have to admit, it is starting to wear on me. The site is a true dumpster fire and they seem to 100% revel in it.

Part of me SO BADLY wants the Brands to just get up and leave on their own and a new coach come in and see Iowa wrestling nosedive. But, in the end, I really gain NOTHING at the expense of a program I have a ton of respect for. What good is a gotcha going to do me, when it is only a gotcha on a dozen or so rabid fans on an anonymous message board?

In the end the coaches and wrestlers deserve so much better and I am just going to stick to that, regardless of the detritus floating everywhere making the board look like this:

 

[AndreTheHawk]

Msu these people would cry if Iowa had 10 in the 1/4. No sense in even discussing it with them anymore. Some people just live miserable lives and can only be negative.

These people? LOL!

Well some of us are actually lifelong Iowa Wrestling fans. My life is great actually, but I call it like I see it while hoping for the best for the Hawks in any sport, and especially Wrestling.

What you call negative I call reality, and every possible metric there is clearly shows that.

I haven't listened to Ironside this year, unfortunately, but he calls it like he sees it too, so I've missed out. I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest he's not seeing the sunshine and puppies you are.

 

[Sir Pin Alot]

Has anyone seen IronHawk post? Wasn't sure if he needed a wellness visit.

 

[lisa morales]

How many years have I been posting on here? How may appreciation posts have I made by myself? How many times I have explained in GREAT DETAIL how I became an Iowa fan and why?

Your narrative is pure deflection. Yes, I would love to see MSU all of a sudden become a force. I spent a large portion of my life dedicated to that. However, that doesn't mean I don't want the absolute best for Iowa as well.

As far as class goes, I am not one that insults or asks for others to play in traffic. I make it a point to try to ONLY deconstruct the argument and not the person. Insulting a person based on what they post on a message board is beyond weak.

Thank you. It's rather ridiculous but of course it's a wrestling forum so...