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Defensive coaches are a waste of time at UK

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Jared1985

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Boggles my mind how utterly clueless our great AD is about this idea.

There is no such thing as a defensive powerhouse program without a winning history. Alabama, Michigan, LSU ect ect.

If your waiting for UK to get it done with defense it's never gonna happen.

Offense is the only thing that gives smaller programs a chance to compete with bigger ones.

If Stoops doesn't get out his own way and quit pretending he's coaching at a power program that's gonna win by running the ball and playing defense. he might as well out a for sale sign in his yard now.
 
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andreIGUODOLLAsigns4UK

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Levibooty said:
Say like TCU, Vandy, SC, UL, and Pittsburgh. Go back to basketball or learn football.
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UL has a great defense? Same for Pittsburg and SC? Wait I'm lost here. If what you're saying is that those teams have good defenses minus vandy. Then you sir need to learn football. IF that's what you were trying to say. I find it hard to believe that's what you meant by that though because saying that would just be plain stoopid. So I could be wrong idk.
 
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Levibooty

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andreIGUODOLLAsigns4UK said:
UL has a great defense? Same for Pittsburg and SC? Wait I'm lost here. If what you're saying is that those teams have good defenses minus vandy. Then you sir need to learn football. IF that's what you were trying to say. I find it hard to believe that's what you meant by that though because saying that would just be plain stoopid. So I could be wrong idk.
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Did I say this year? Did the OP?

Is TCU known for their defense this year or how they started to grow their program? Football doesn't exist in the vacuum of 2015 only. Does this say 2015?---"Offense is the only thing that gives smaller programs a chance to compete with bigger ones."
 
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Levibooty

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Furthermore there are some pretty darn good football minds that post here and to see a couple of very fresh faces come here and start acting like they are some kind of savant when it comes to football is laughable. Some Kentucky basketball fans can't get their brains away from, "Basketball on grass" enough to learn about football. You are not going to win big games in football with just one side of the LOS playing well. Hal Mumme proved that as well as Gary Patterson. Patterson in fact has now developed both which is why his program has risen like it has but he started with a shut-down defense that sprung his program to national attention.

Here learn something:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/co...27-at-tcu-its-still-all-about-the-defense.ece
 
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andreIGUODOLLAsigns4UK

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Levibooty said:
Did I say this year? Did the OP?

Is TCU known for their defense this year or how they started to grow their program? Football doesn't exist in the vacuum of 2015 only. Does this say 2015?---"Offense is the only thing that gives smaller programs a chance to compete with bigger ones."
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Louisville Vanderbilt and SC are historically good defenses? Again I am very lost.
 
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andreIGUODOLLAsigns4UK

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Maybe SC I guess. But for sure not vandy and UL. I guess since I'm new here and you've been here awhile means I can't possibly have a good football mind.
 
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Levibooty

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andreIGUODOLLAsigns4UK said:
Louisville Vanderbilt and SC are historically good defenses? Again I am very lost.
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Yeah you are lost. First you assume I talked about the philosophy of football contain in all of one season and now you run the other way by trying to broaden your argument over all of history. You are one confused duck my friend. As I pointed out there are different teams that in different years disprove this statement thoroughly:

"Offense is the only thing that gives smaller programs a chance to compete with bigger ones."

I even included a story that illustrated how TCU alone disproves that statement.

Understand?
 
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mrhotdice

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Jared1985 said:
Boggles my mind how utterly clueless our great AD is about this idea.

There is no such thing as a defensive powerhouse program without a winning history. Alabama, Michigan, LSU ect ect.

If your waiting for UK to get it done with defense it's never gonna happen.

Offense is the only thing that gives smaller programs a chance to compete with bigger ones.

If Stoops doesn't get out his own way and quit pretending he's coaching at a power program that's gonna win by running the ball and playing defense. he might as well out a for sale sign in his yard now.
Click to expand...
Your not very wise in the football world.
 
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Levibooty

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I might be wrong about these gentlemen but this kind of senseless blather is exactly what Matt Jones imparts to his listeners about football. It's like pop-art or pop-psychology, a little interesting at times but about as credible as OJ Simpson.
 
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andreIGUODOLLAsigns4UK

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Levibooty said:
Yeah you are lost. First you assume I talked about the philosophy of football contain in all of one season and now you run the other way by trying to broaden your argument over all of history. You are one confused duck my friend. As I pointed out there are different teams that in different years disprove this statement thoroughly:

"Offense is the only thing that gives smaller programs a chance to compete with bigger ones."

I even included a story that illustrated how TCU alone disproves that statement.

Understand?
Click to expand...
Never agreed with the ops statement. But I swear you used teams as examples where defense helped those teams cement themselves. And some of those teams you mentioned. Have one good defense every 10 years if lucky. I just think you used very bad examples.
 
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sluggercatfan

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Jared1985 said:
Boggles my mind how utterly clueless our great AD is about this idea.

There is no such thing as a defensive powerhouse program without a winning history. Alabama, Michigan, LSU ect ect.

If your waiting for UK to get it done with defense it's never gonna happen.

Offense is the only thing that gives smaller programs a chance to compete with bigger ones.

If Stoops doesn't get out his own way and quit pretending he's coaching at a power program that's gonna win by running the ball and playing defense. he might as well out a for sale sign in his yard now.
Click to expand...
THANK YOU!!!!!!...Glad I'm not the only one beating my head against the wall over this...I think even Saban has changed his philosophy some over this theory...truly think this is MS biggest weakness
 
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Anon1660081258

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GYERater said:
Resume of the best coach we have had in my lifetime:

1965–1969 Oregon State (DL)
1970 UCLA (LB)
1971–1972 Los Angeles Rams (ST)
1973 Oregon State (DC)
1974–1975 San Francisco 49ers (DB)
1976 UCLA (LB/ST)
1977–1994 Oregon
1995–1996 St. Louis Rams
1997–2000 Atlanta Falcons (DC)
2003–2009 Kentucky
Click to expand...

Amen. Some people need to recognize that we will never really contend if satisfied with being a sideshow act. That is all Hal Mumme ever got us. We amused the opposition. Great. Sign me up for more of that. I'd rather they mock us for failure in a real effort, than chuckle at our satisfaction with being successful at "entertaining" ourselves. I'll stop before moving on to the obvious metaphor.
 
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TBCat

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Levibooty said:
Say like TCU, Vandy, SC, UL, and Pittsburgh. Go back to basketball or learn football.
Click to expand...
TCU is another matter altogether. They don't compare with UK and don't compare with UK's situation. And they are quite good on offense.

The other teams you listed don't combine to equaling a hill of beans. 2 of them are easily beneath UK right now. The other two are about equal. Maybe a little ahead but not much. Not sure what in this response refutes anything the OP stated.

I won't go as far as saying what the OP did which we will never get it done on defense but I will say that a defense first approach will never work here. Defense is more about talent than offense is. We will never be any higher than middle of the pack in the SEC. If we adopt an approach that is mostly based on who is the most talented team then 4 or 5 wins is our ceiling. We will have to out score people to win more games than that.
 
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JW PRPcoach

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His way of saying it came off wrong, but I tend to agree with the original poster.
A "defensive"minded HC isn't necessarily a bad thing, but to think that we are going to ever recruit the athletes that can win in the SEC playing "smashmouth" football and rely on a stout D are sorely mistaken.

The teams that have had success here (recently) have spread opponents out, got playmakers in space, and have had good QB play. Coach Brooks himself was quoted more than once that he tried to recruit a true "dual-threat" qb that could put pressure on the D and get players in "one on one" situations. This is how teams with lesser talent can compete, by making the D space out and decide who to protect.

Unfortunately, we run a system with 4 in the backfield often, which allows the D to pack the box while still having one high safety. I don't claim to know a lot about offensive football, but as a defensive coach I would much rather face this type of formation than a team that goes 3 wide with a single back, especially if the QB is a running threat (i.e. UofL with Jackson) They put a tremendous amount of pressure on our defenders, having to make quick decisions and win one-on-one battles all over the field, which we didn't do.

The SEC east was the exception this season ( a lot of low scoring games) - if you look almost everywhere else, teams are routinely scoring in the 30's and 40's. Modern offensive football is tough to stop. No matter how good the D is, well coached teams with any talent at all are going to eventually score points. To be successful going forward, not only do we need to get more "sound" on defense, but more importantly, we need a spark and maybe a system change on offense to "keep up" with most other teams scoring.

If Stoops is unwilling to let this happen, he will dig his own grave.
 
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c1doc

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Mar 23, 2007
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Levibooty

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This statement:
"Offense is the only thing that gives smaller programs a chance to compete with bigger ones."
is wrong.

That is what and why I posted the article about TCU. TCU proved a stout defense can catapult a team to success. That's what they used to get started building their program. I don't think you can do it with defense alone but you sure as heck are not going to do it with offense alone.

This argument has nothing to do with UK per se. However if you asked Anthony White how good UK would have been if he played on a team that had a decent offense, he would let you know real quick that is what held them back when he play---a porous defense.

There is always more than one way to skin a cat.
 
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anon_013cn8yrfncx2

Guest
I am a neophyte at football Xs and Os but I'll be damned if I believe you'll ever have a lockdown defense with a bend but don't break defensive philosophy. IMO that's the problem and always will be under CMS.
 
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UKwannabe

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Oct 30, 2005
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Offensive guru for head coach and then your entire defensive staff needs to be passionate recruiters.

That's my take anyway. I've always felt defense is about the Jimmy's. On offense, you can scheme your way to a top 25 offense IMO.
 
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Jared1985

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Nov 21, 2012
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LOL at TCU getting to where they are with defense.

Newsflash they had a great defense when they were in lesser conferences playing against crappy competition.

As soon as they went to the big 12 they spent the next year or two getting their rear ends handed to them before Patterson was smart enough to to bring in air raid coaches.

Guess what? TCU's defense sucks and everyone is scoring like crazy on them but they are now a top program. Guess why?

OFFENSE.
 
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screwduke

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I don't understand the OP. OP says there's no such thing as a defensive powerhouse program, but then lists 3 teams that usually have good to great defenses. Huh?
 
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