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Did Eliot and Stoops just throw the entire defense under the bus?

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billoliver40

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Dec 16, 2015
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You know.....
At least once I would like one of these coaches to say that basics means if a guy doesn't wrap up a guy to tackle him we are going down the roster to find someone that will.
If a receiver refuses to cross the middle on a play call or gives up, then next man up.
If a d lineman can't get into the correct stance when he is a junior then find someone that will.

I would like someone to explain why high three star and four star players know no more about how to play the game as red shirt Sophie and junior than they did as freshmen.

Bet I never get those answers.
 
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Deeeefense

Deeeefense

Heisman
Staff member
Aug 22, 2001
44,069
51,009
113
screwduke1 said:

Seriously? Its the players fault?
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you know who else use to say the same thing? Ron Hudson. He was Brooks first OC and was despised by the fans as being totally ineffective. That's how he explained the anemic production by the offense. He designed perfect plays, so he explained, and all those 11 idiots out there couldn't figure out how to execute them. Hudson didn't last too long.
 
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morgousky

Heisman
Sep 5, 2009
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As a coach, I can tell you one thing. These coaches are given millions of dollars to scout, recruit, coach, and prep. I WISH I could have 1/10th of the recourses these coaches in colleges are given to prepare players.

Stoops is an idiot, and if you still support him, well, figure it out.
 
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KYCAT78

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May 24, 2006
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Stoopid has nobody to blame but himself. You only have to look at Vandy under Franklin, he did more with less talent than Stoopid has now. All that tells me is Stoopid is not a very good Coach, a good Coach can coach up the players.
 
ScrewDuke1

ScrewDuke1

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Poetax said:
In the early Stoops years I would have disagreed with you totally because the players he acquired were terrible but now with his own kids, things are still falling apart on important 3th downs. I know leadership is a problem but as a coach you have to find a way to get through to your kids.
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I agree. Stoops pretty much earned a pass with so many Joker players. But that excuse can't be used anymore, almost every player except I think 5 or 6 are his. This is the first year where its basically his players, and you can argue that they have regressed. Coaching is very bad, to say the least.
 
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DACats86

All-Conference
Jan 7, 2003
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KYCAT78 said:
Stoopid has nobody to blame but himself. You only have to look at Vandy under Franklin, he did more with less talent than Stoopid has now. All that tells me is Stoopid is not a very good Coach, a good Coach can coach up the players.
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Oh, I see what you did there! You took Stoops name and, although misspelled, made it sound like "stupid." Wow, clever! Seriously, did you think of that all by yourself?
 
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billoliver40

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Trouble is.....
Franklin DID take less and make it into more. Franklin will likely win 7 games at Penn State and get fired.
If he did that three years in a row at UK he would own the state
 
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KY1WING

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Sep 15, 2005
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Deeeefense said:
you know who else you to say the same thing? Ron Hudson. He was Brooks first OC and was despised by the fans as being totally ineffective. That's how he explained the anemic production by the offense. He designed perfect plays, so he explained, and all those 11 idiots out there couldn't figure out how to execute them. Hudson didn't last too long.
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No but Brooks loyalty to Hudson almost cost him his job.

Seem to recall that Hudson was a pretty fair coach at KSU before coming here. Seems like the offense they were running then was what everyone seems to want to run now.

But that was then ... This is now.
 
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megablue

Heisman
Oct 2, 2012
13,419
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113
If players can't make plays, to me, that means they are not players.
I don't believe the coaching is above-average, trust me, but the vast majority of our players, especially on the defensive side of the ball, simply are not SEC-level players.
 
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Soupbean

All-American
Jan 19, 2007
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brianpoe said:
Don't doubt it, most of the time it is the player's fault.

Was the player not athletic or smart enough? Who recruited that player?

Did the player use poor judgement? Who instructed that player?

Did the player use poor fundamentals? Who taught that player?


Doesn't matter. If 85 guys are not performing after 4 years it all comes back to coaching.
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These are all great questions but the more frustrating thing about their statements to me is it illustrates the coaches are still missing the point. As most of you know I'm a big believer in, "it's not what you do it's how you do it". This shows me that the coaches are still caught way too much up in assignments or alignments or reads etc etc instead of getting their players to just be aggressive reactive football players. Football is an aggressive, physical sport. It's not made to sit and think too much. The guy that 's sitting thinking is on his heels and the guy that's moving and reacting on the fly is on his toes and always the aggressor. Good athletes will make plays if they are freed up to do so.

I firmly believe that with this years defense, we would be better off with no alignment at all and just let our guys be in flux every play (except on short yardage of course). What you might give up sometimes in alignment you would make up for in reaction time, aggressiveness and make it harder to be blocked up which is our biggest problem. (for example see the play in the second half where we were totally confused and couldn't get aligned. It was a mad scramble, lineman running back and forth and our best look down all day)

Once you teach them how to play loose, free and aggressive you can tighten things back up but without the doing that first you can sit an blabber all day long about who missed what assignment and you're going to get nothing but what you're already getting.

Spend more time Coach teaching your guys how to be tough, nasty, fly around, no fear football players and you might start seeing you have better athletes than you think. This is why my pick for surprise player of the year in a thread earlier was Jordan Jones. He already plays that way himself. I think we have others who could do the same but they have to be shown how and freed up to do so.
 
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Stenchymouse

Stenchymouse

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Jul 31, 2005
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When I was a teenager, I got a job at a department store.

The manager that hired me just literally sent me out on the floor to work and never taught me anything...

I was so shy that I wouldn't ask questions.

After about a month, the same manager took me into his office and fired me for not knowing what to do.

If I saw that dude now, I'd slap the living **** out of him!
 
LadyCaytIL

LadyCaytIL

Heisman
Oct 28, 2012
32,034
32,825
113
well now that our coaches are going Full Tilt...........



:joy::joy::joy::joy::joy:
 
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Aike

Heisman
Mar 17, 2002
75,170
45,507
90
Zig Ziglar used to do a bit about Bear Bryant.

According to Zig, "If it was bad I done it," was how Bear handled a poor performance.

A mediocre game would result in Bear taking part of the blame and giving some to the players.

A great game? Players got the credit.
 
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docholiday51

Heisman
Oct 19, 2001
22,011
26,718
0
Aike said:
Zig Ziglar used to do a bit about Bear Bryant.

According to Zig, "If it was bad I done it," was how Bear handled a poor performance.

A mediocre game would result in Bear taking part of the blame and giving some to the players.

A great game? Players got the credit.
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Boy,I can hardly wait till we have a great game so the players can get credit.Seriously.I think Stoops is handling this poor start rather badly,had we won the first game things would be said differently.This reminds me so much of his first game here (WKU) it is sad to think that starting his 4th year we are in essentially the same place we were when he got here.
 
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Poetax

Heisman
Apr 4, 2002
29,410
20,887
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Blueaz said:
Strawman,
Yep, that is what is being said. Players NEVER make mistakes. You are correct. That is exactly what is being said.
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Listen whine all you want, but the coaches make mistakes but so do the players, it happens Scarecrow.
 
Blueaz

Blueaz

Heisman
Jul 7, 2009
27,973
30,112
113
Poetax said:
Listen whine all you want, but the coaches make mistakes but so do the players, it happens Scarecrow.
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Strawman,
you love trying to twist other people's post to suit your needs (argument).
No one said that coaches are not allowed to make a mistake as they are learning to become a HC from and OC...but if takes someone over 4 years to learn; maybe they aren't never going to get it.
Now, twist that
 
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Poetax

Heisman
Apr 4, 2002
29,410
20,887
0
Blueaz said:
Strawman,
you love trying to twist other people's post to suit your needs (argument).
No one said that coaches are not allowed to make a mistake as they are learning to become a HC from and OC...but if takes someone over 4 years to learn; maybe they aren't never going to get it.
Now, twist that
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Listen Barney(Andy's side kick not Mitch), understanding how to read posts is a talent, yours must have been skipping classes. Why do you cry and whine so much when someone posts something that you don't understand? I bet your problem is you started on the Paddock and from there it was impossible for you to play well with others.
 
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docholiday51

Heisman
Oct 19, 2001
22,011
26,718
0
Poetax said:
Don't know who's to blame but our safeties have been toast many times this year especially at the end of the first half. How hard is it to understand with only seconds left, do not let anyone get behind you?
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Their nicknames should be butter and jelly
 
ScrewDuke1

ScrewDuke1

Hall of Famer
Jul 29, 2016
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brianpoe said:
This is a staff and AD that suspended a player for blocking too hard...
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That was so stupid. Hell I have issues with Baker but I love that he leveled that guy. That guy was going to cream Towles, might have even injured him for all we know. No idea why he got suspended for basically protecting his own player.
 
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ScrewDuke1

ScrewDuke1

Hall of Famer
Jul 29, 2016
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Poetax said:
Don't know who's to blame but our safeties have been toast many times this year especially at the end of the first half. How hard is it to understand with only seconds left, do not let anyone get behind you?
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I'm starting to think Clinkscale is not a very good secondary coach. The secondary wasn't perfect under Ansley but I don't recall it looking this bad last year.
 
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J

jc2010

All-Conference
May 13, 2008
4,591
4,367
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megablue said:
If players can't make plays, to me, that means they are not players.
I don't believe the coaching is above-average, trust me, but the vast majority of our players, especially on the defensive side of the ball, simply are not SEC-level players.
Click to expand...
Yes but, we've only played one SEC team. Maybe they aren't Sunbelt or CUSA either
 
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Blueaz

Blueaz

Heisman
Jul 7, 2009
27,973
30,112
113
Poetax said:
Listen Barney(Andy's side kick not Mitch), understanding how to read posts is a talent, yours must have been skipping classes. Why do you cry and whine so much when someone posts something that you don't understand? I bet your problem is you started on the Paddock and from there it was impossible for you to play well with others.
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once again you aren't addressing content.
you must be proud
have a wonderful day...Strawman
 
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VikingsCat

All-Conference
Feb 7, 2013
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brianpoe said:
Don't doubt it, most of the time it is the player's fault.

Was the player not athletic or smart enough? Who recruited that player?

Did the player use poor judgement? Who instructed that player?

Did the player use poor fundamentals? Who taught that player?


Doesn't matter. If 85 guys are not performing after 4 years it all comes back to coaching.
Click to expand...
You only need one single player to miss an assignment. Just saying
 
V

VikingsCat

All-Conference
Feb 7, 2013
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dallasg23 said:
Complicated defense?? Never heard of such a thing. Defense isn't nearly as complicated as offense. I've said it from the beginning. They need to just line and play football. His complicated crap clearly isn't fooling anybody but his own players
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Have you ever played defense, and if so on what level?
 
V

VikingsCat

All-Conference
Feb 7, 2013
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For those of you that are coaches the playbooks in the links should be pretty straight forward, for those that never have coached and only played in high school I would go look at a few of the 4-3 and 3-4 playbooks in the attached link. They are pretty much like all college playbooks (not much difference between college and NFL).

PS
I think you need a Google account to download them

http://coachhoover.blogspot.no/p/defensive-playbooks.html?m=1
 
B

brianpoe

Heisman
Mar 25, 2009
27,769
21,825
113
Blueaz said:
once again you aren't addressing content.
you must be proud
have a wonderful day...Strawman
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Poetax said:
We seem to do this about every six months or so, not sure why? So I'm ready to start over on a different foot. Hi I'm Poetax, how's your day been? :)
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As someone who knows both of you, I can easily say that if you guys met you would realize just how much alike you are and would hit it off instantly.

Poetax is simply suffering through his 65th season of UK football and Blueaz has inhaled way too much Novocain over the years...
 
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Blueaz

Blueaz

Heisman
Jul 7, 2009
27,973
30,112
113
Poetax said:
We seem to do this about every six months or so, not sure why? So I'm ready to start over on a different foot. Hi I'm Poetax, how's your day been? :)
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Actually pretty ******, but I am sure it will get better...Ty for asking
Looking forward to the day that this football program can pick a winning direction. How I wish stoops was the guy...if just doesn't seem that way.
Aside: I have to deal with a former USCjr QB on Sunday. He is working on QB fundamentals with my boy.
How is your day?
 
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