Do you think Dan Mullen can get us to the next level?

Incognegro

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Nov 30, 2008
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Who cares...? Vegas isn't going to win that game for us. We're 8-3... That's the only position I care about us being in before that game.

And some of you other people in this thread just bewilder me... I really find it hard to believe how any MSU fan can honestly find complaints about progress while we're sitting towards the end of the regular season at 8-3 in some of the toughest years in the SEC.
 

shotgunDawg

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Nov 13, 2011
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You guys are ridiculous. We seem to go through this every week. I am currently too lazy to write it again, but check out my post a few weeks ago about questioning why the media thinks we have hit our ceiling. It's utterly ridiculous to think that, and anyone that thinks that is either a moron or has a agenda. Really at this point, the worst thing that can happen is for our fans to start believing we can't take the next step. We must maintain our enthusiasm, above this past weekend, and we must continue to believe. The facts and stats are on our side.

Nevermind I copied it, written after the aTm game:

After the last two losses, some of the media is beginning to throw out the notion that Mullen has reached his ceiling at MSU. While I do understand that there ultimately may be a ceiling at MSU, as there is at every other school, I dn't see any evidence that suggests that MSU has reached it or is even close to it.

There is no doubt that last two games have been very disappointing, and I think it suggests a lot about this years team, but I think it is a major stretch to say that the last two games have unmasked some greater indication that MSU has reached its ceiling as a program. We have to keep things in perspective and realize that while we were out schemed and out manned, it doesn't mean that we can't get there. I think we have all realized this year that it is much easier, in college football, to go from god awful to pretty good, then to go from pretty good to really good. Case in point: Mullen took us from god awful to pretty good very quickly and Freeze is in the process of doing the same at OM. However, just like us, OM will reach a plateau at pretty good unless they get an out of this world player at the QB position. i.e., Johnny Football or Cam Newton. Robert NK won't do it for them. Recents trends have shown that to go from pretty good to really good, if you still lack elite talent at some positions, is you have to acquire an elite play making QB. I think this is because the QB is the only position that really can't be taken out of the game due to schemes. You can't double team a QB.

Where I think the media is missing the boat is that I believe they are so conditioned to the NFL, NBA, Alabama, LSU, USC, Ohio State, & Florida way of thinking, that you can go from bad to a championship level in 3 years, that they don't understand that historically bad programs take much more time to build. What they forget is that when Bama, Florida, LSU, and Ohio State weren't good, it wasn't because of talent. It was because of mismanagement, probation, and bad coaching. Those programs already had the commitment, history, recruiting and general program infrastructure to bounce back quickly. Sounds like common sense doesn't it? But the media just really doesn't understand that for the past 50 years MSU has consistently had poor leadership in the athletic Department, bad coaching, and hasn't been financially and organizationally committed to winning in football.

Furthermore, over the past 20 years MSU has had to deal with the perception that it had the worst facilities in the SEC. However, over the past 3 years that has changed. MSU is expanding and renovating the stadium, building an unbelievable football building that will rival anyone's in the country, and showing the willingness to pay for good coaches (something I predict will only improve over the next few years). Furthermore, Starkville is growing and becoming a more legit college town year by year. So with the exception of number of seats in the stadium, who has better facilities than MSU? and if so, why? After our stadium expansion, with the exception of number of seats in the stadium, why does Alabama have better facilities than us?

Ultimately, all this should make our recruiting better. Over the past 6 years our recruiting rankings looks like this according Scout.com.

2008: 33
2009: 19
2010: 38
2011: 45
2012: 18
2013(presently): 16

By looking at our recruiting rankings, we really tanked in 2010 and 2011, and those two bad recruiting seasons have a lot to do with our current problems and why next year could be a little bit of a struggle, but the good news is that Mullen is really beginning to find his recruiting stride and our new facilities aren't even finished yet. What will happen when we move into those and recruits are able tour them?

In conclusion, it is clear that, while our football program may have momentarily plateaued, mostly due bad recruiting years in the 2010 and 2011, we are moving in the right direction and building this program the correct way. Barring a devastating probation, we are building a program that will be sustainable to years to come; brick by brick. The truth is that we didn't have the program infrastructure, like most here understand, to shoot up as quickly as Bama or LSU did when they hired new coaches. We had soooo much more ground to make up, and the good thing is that we have made up much of it and I think that will show up on the field over the next 5 years. There will certainly be more bumps in the road and we will probably lose 2 straight again next season, but the country's population is going up, our state population is going up, there are more high schools in the MS than ever before, there are more high school football teams and players than ever before, therefore, as long as Bama and LSU can only sign 25 players per year, there should be more good and elite players to recruit.

What is going on at MSU right now is putting us in position to land those recruits, and once we do, we will have the opportunity to go from good to great. MSU has not reached its ceiling, not even close.
 
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engie

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May 29, 2011
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huh? 10-2 & a really good bowl bid, yes... but not a good chance at a BCS, SEC or even and SECW title that year...

We were 7 minutes away from the Sugar Bowl as SEC champion in 1998. Sherrill was within striking distance several different times... just never could quite break through that last level.
 

Coach34

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False. Sherrill was damn close to the Sugar without great consistency.

Same for Nutt at Arkansas.

This **** about several years of middle tier bowls is not based on fact. In fact it's just a less depressing version of the "Croom needs more time" arguments.

What year was that?

1998?? We were 8-3 headed into the SECCG- We would have been a 9-3 team in the Sugar Bowl...that can't happen now. You have to play for the NC to win the West these days

1999? We did go 6-2 in the SEC and had a great season- BUT, that was also our 3rd season in a row for success. And we still fell 2 games short and didnt even win the West after starting 8-0
 

Coach34

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huh? 10-2 & a really good bowl bid, yes... but not a good chance at a BCS, SEC or even and SECW title that year...

We would have beaten LSU that year with Newton...not sure about Bama- Nick Bell dying made that whole week a disaster...But you know as well as I do- Cam Newton made that big of a difference
 

Incognegro

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Not only that, but these are the same people that said Mississippi State was a coaching grave yard, and that anyone asking for success should not come here. If they say we've reached our ceiling, then 17 them.
 

Coach34

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Wrong chief- We're ranked 15th by Scout and 22nd by 247

We are doing things in our program right now that we have never done- and its paying off. Stop falling for the Mississippi Bear spin. How much good did beating Florida help Mississippi's program? They lost to Wake Forest and Vandy that same season. And went on to go 1-15 in the SEC in 2010 and 2011.

There are no shortcuts, you have to build your brand and it takes time. We will pull that upset eventually- but enjoy Mullen elevating our program to the level its currently at, because we never seem to stay here very long. How can you be tired of something that rarely happens for us?
 

engie

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May 29, 2011
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Wrong chief- We're ranked 15th by Scout and 22nd by 247

We are doing things in our program right now that we have never done- and its paying off. Stop falling for the Mississippi Bear spin. How much good did beating Florida help Mississippi's program? They lost to Wake Forest and Vandy that same season. And went on to go 1-15 in the SEC in 2010 and 2011.

There are no shortcuts, you have to build your brand and it takes time. We will pull that upset eventually- but enjoy Mullen elevating our program to the level its currently at, because we never seem to stay here very long. How can you be tired of something that rarely happens for us?

All very well-stated.

I don't even think we've scratched the surface of what we will be capable of offensively once we have a full stable of real playmakers in place. Our O recruiting has lagged behind our D recruiting for whatever reason. Probably largely because the Relf-Coast Offense wasn't the most attractive thing to big-time receivers. Defensively, I think we can be much better than we currently are, but I am concerned by what I see as mild underachievement as a unit this year. We should CURRENTLY be much better than we've played this year, and I believe we're underperforming our talent level at about 5ppg average. That said, we're stocked to the gills in defensive talent, and I expect us to upgrade at literally every position on D next season other than the huge losses at CB...
 

Palos verdes

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Aug 22, 2012
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You could certainly make strong arguments to support the media's viewpoint.

I think it's important to look at what Arkansas has done in recent years. Under the right coach and the right system, Arkansas, as well as State, can achieve next level success. BCS bowl level success. I still believe that we can out-recruit Arkansas, under the right coaching staff, more times than not. Furthermore, I have often compared ourselves to Ark, in the projection of ultimate program success, or ceiling. They have achieved that level already, we are still in the hunt. Mullen can get us there, but it could take longer than most people might be willing to wait. Including Mullen himself. Perhaps, five to ten more years, or more..

There are several factors. Here's a few..

It should be obvious to everyone that it's tougher to win the SEC today, than it was in the 90's. Now the west has become a juggernaut in it's own right. aTm is most likely going to join the ranks of Bama and Lsu on a consistent yearly basis. They have even more money and will recruit elite players like the old powers to compete at the top level. Our biggest problem is obviously..money, but it's also geographical location. The latter is as much of a hindrance as an asset.

Of course,we all know that we are at a disadvantage because of the perception and reality of our state being financially poor and small, along with another league contender within the borders. That's difficult enough. But it gets worse! When it comes to recruiting, the biggest issue.. the one that hurts us the most, is our campus location in the state. We sit almost directly in the middle of the UM and Alabama campuses. Each school is within 90 miles of MSU. One of which, has the most storied football program in the SEC, and is currently at the top! No one else in the league has to deal with such overwhelming recruiting obstacles, but we do! You won't hear the sports media mention these things, either. To exacerbate these problems, we are also very rural, in a rural state, without a big city to draw from.

Lastly, despite having a single good season, these realities will continue to be problematic. We would need several years of lucrative bowl berths to reverse some of the effects of these barriers. As for now, I think getting a top 20 or top 15 recruiting class at MSU takes enormous hard work from the staff. But, I think we get that class, this year.

I certainly hope Mullen can get us to a BCS bowl game in the near future. But even if our program continues to progress, it doesn't mean that is likely to happen,esp, given the nature of our competitors. We will need lots of luck, also.
 
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BulldogBlitz

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Dec 11, 2008
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this year's okie state team would boat race us and we'd be looking at another 38-zip score. all that game will do is prepare us (as fans) to look at the scoreboard and facepalm.
 

johnson86-1

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Aug 22, 2012
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He can`t do all of this and stay squeaky clean at MSU...ain`t gonna happen

Alabama and LSU can't recruit top talent and stay squeaky clean. But Mullen can recruit at MSU and stay off probation. Look at what UM is doing.

People need to realize that we are struggling to get to the next level because we spent two years with Mullen trying to recruit to MSU the same way Urban and company recruited to UF (which eventually even caught up with them there). We had the base that had Mullen been a little less naive, we'd probably be making the next step now (although it could have just as easily resulted in 3 close losses this year instead of two blow outs and an in-between loss). Sucks but new coaches will make mistakes. But Mullen is not stupid and he has and will adjust. Taking those two wasted recruiting years as a given, Mullen is right on schedule and there is no reason to think he can't get us to the next level. The only thing I worry about now is that by the time he gets a few elite players on each side of hte ball, and SEC talent all over the two-deep, he will likely have been coaching at MSU for 6 years. That's a long time to maintain the fire without any drop-off, and he's going to need all the intensity he can physically handle to really push state to the next level.
 

FISHDAWG

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Dec 27, 2009
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No they aren't ... we have some idiots that are fans but not the other

way around ... most of us have stood by MSU for decades and I hate it when chumps like you lump us all together for the sake of trying to be cool on a message board
 

thatsbaseball

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May 29, 2007
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Mullen wasn`t so "naive" in his first two years as you may think. He knew then and knows now what it will take at MSU but he also knows that pushing that envelope and getting caught greatly lessens his value to other schools as a potential HC. Can anyone really blame him ?
 
Nov 19, 2012
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You made me feel a little better...sorta

I hadn't looked at the recruiting ranking in a while, and we do look better with Scout and 247 (actually moved up to 20th in that) but Rivals has us at 28, and there are still 6 SEC teams in the top 10--in essentailly every poll. How do we ever compete with Bama, LSU, A&M when they get top 10 classes every year, and we rarely break into the top 20? I still don't think the way to get recuits to notice you is to beat a SWAC school on ESPNXYZ. And it sure isn't the way to prep for the team size and speed of Bama. This formula is only going to work as long as Auburn, Arkansas and Tennessee go 2-26 in the SEC every year. In other words, it isn't going to work. We will be back to winning 4 non-conference games, and maybe Kentucky and the Bears. 5 or 6 wins, none against quality teams, and if we are lucky the Impotence Bowl in Shreveport. I still say we need combat experience. Opening with OSU is a good start, but damn--drop the SWAC games.
 

BiscuitEater

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Like many other State fans ...

And State only sells about 4,000 tickets to the game that is only 1.5 hours away from their campus. Can someone explain to me? HOW SAD. Why would he stay if he had a chance to go to another BCS school?

I refuse to write a check to Ole Miss ... period. In all the egg bowls I have attended in Oxford since JWS forced them back to campus, I have never paid close to face value.

Trust me, there will be a good number of State fans there (~10-12K).
 

BiscuitEater

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Did you miss the memo?

True that Coach34. Fact is we've never been to a sugar bowl and Ole Miss has been 8 times (5-3).


Johnny Vaught is no longer the coach; Archie graduated; they now have to play Bama every year; last Sugar Bowl appearance was 42 years ago; and the glory days are over
 

Railin Jemmye

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Oct 29, 2012
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Every SEC teams does this. They all play at least 2 cadavers. The 'haves' play one other BCS team at best. Highly doubt one game prepares you for 'battle'. We have to manage which games we get 'up' for. Use your head. Less emotion.
 

cheewgumm

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Sep 15, 2012
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9-3 (potentially) with losses to 3 top 8 teams....uhhhhh we're donig pretty good

already.

I'm shocked and think this is probably a Rebel planted idea to get rid of Mullen.

And LSU, BAMA, A&M can be beat. Hell, Ole Miss should have beat LSU and possibly A&M this year. It is not un-doable. We are where we should be, with a decent recruiting class coming. We need to recruit better...period.
 

Sutterkane

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Jan 23, 2007
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You're exactly right and Dan has actually proven that. Since he's arrived we've maybe been upset on one occasion, Houston in 09. Yes we've come close to losing some games, but we've pulled them out. Even LSU has close calls against ****** teams and they have far better talent than we do currently.

The more we win the more talent we'll pull in, and we'll win even more.
 

Coach34

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Jul 20, 2012
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True that Coach34. Fact is we've never been to a sugar bowl and Ole Miss has been 8 times (5-3).

The guys that played in Mississippi's last Sugar Bowl are now in their 60's...they haven't played in a Sugar Bowl in the modern football era (post Integration)
 

Coach34

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I hadn't looked at the recruiting ranking in a while, and we do look better with Scout and 247 (actually moved up to 20th in that) but Rivals has us at 28, and there are still 6 SEC teams in the top 10--in essentailly every poll. How do we ever compete with Bama, LSU, A&M when they get top 10 classes every year, and we rarely break into the top 20? I still don't think the way to get recuits to notice you is to beat a SWAC school on ESPNXYZ. And it sure isn't the way to prep for the team size and speed of Bama. This formula is only going to work as long as Auburn, Arkansas and Tennessee go 2-26 in the SEC every year. In other words, it isn't going to work. We will be back to winning 4 non-conference games, and maybe Kentucky and the Bears. 5 or 6 wins, none against quality teams, and if we are lucky the Impotence Bowl in Shreveport. I still say we need combat experience. Opening with OSU is a good start, but damn--drop the SWAC games.

It's simple- we aren't ever going to have top 10 classes at Mississippi State. We can't do it. But what we can do is what Mullen is doing- get our recruiting in the 20's- and also bring on some talented projects that may pay off into really good players for us.

We wont ever be Alabama, LSU, Florida, or Georgia. But we can beat them from time to time. We have to stay consistent and then hope for that special group to come together for a special year. That is who we are.
 

maroonmania

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Feb 23, 2008
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Exactly, how quickly so much of our fanbase forgets that for the first decade...

already.I'm shocked and think this is probably a Rebel planted idea to get rid of Mullen.And LSU, BAMA, A&M can be beat. Hell, Ole Miss should have beat LSU and possibly A&M this year. It is not un-doable. We are where we should be, with a decent recruiting class coming. We need to recruit better...period.
of this century we were one of the losingest programs in the country and a total laughing stock. Just funny to me reading this thread how so many fans think Mullen just won't ever be able to get us any higher just because in year 4 of his tenure we are not in contention for an conference title in a conference that has SIX TEAMS SITTING IN THE BCS TOP 12. Sometimes I think our fanbase is getting as delusional as the Rebel friends to the North.
 

maroonmania

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Feb 23, 2008
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That's sort of my line of demarkation...

The guys that played in Mississippi's last Sugar Bowl are now in their 60's...they haven't played in a Sugar Bowl in the modern football era (post Integration)
if it happened pre-integration it really has no bearing at all on what's going on today. Totally different world in college athletics at that time.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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Totally agree-- SEC teams need some down time to heal, rest. But this year's non-conference schedule was frankly, a joke, and was ahead of only Vandy (who was one behind) and Kentucky in the Power ratings for SEC teams. We even had Pacific-12 writers mocking us. That doesn't impress recruits, and we will never reach the next level without better recruiting classes--every year--rated in the teens at least. I hate to say it, but if we can't start attracting better athletes, Mullen might jump if he gets the opportunity. After 5-6 years stuck in low gear, he'll be stuck here, and he knows it. Our SEC wins were against the absolute bottom of the conference--but 3 of those teams will likely get new coaches, and new buzz, at the end of this year. Auburn's talent level is scary.
 
Sep 16, 2012
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Thanks for posting Neal McCready's concern trolling...

So Neal McCready is the expert on what MSU fan is going to be asking about Dan Mullen? Okay, I'm the expert on how Israel should handle Gaza. Coach34 is the new expert on the fiscal cliff. It's amazing how some lame ******* can make a lame ******* statement, & somebody runs to a messageboard & offers it in a serious context. Word to Neal McCready: Mullen is getting it done. If you don't think so, feel free to write the Gator Bowl corporate office & explain to them Mullen's numerous shortcomings.
 

maroonmania

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Feb 23, 2008
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First, I've never heard one recruit EVER even mention who an SEC team they are..

Totally agree-- SEC teams need some down time to heal, rest. But this year's non-conference schedule was frankly, a joke, and was ahead of only Vandy (who was one behind) and Kentucky in the Power ratings for SEC teams. We even had Pacific-12 writers mocking us. That doesn't impress recruits, and we will never reach the next level without better recruiting classes--every year--rated in the teens at least. I hate to say it, but if we can't start attracting better athletes, Mullen might jump if he gets the opportunity. After 5-6 years stuck in low gear, he'll be stuck here, and he knows it. Our SEC wins were against the absolute bottom of the conference--but 3 of those teams will likely get new coaches, and new buzz, at the end of this year. Auburn's talent level is scary.
being recruited by is playing OOC. Its just not a factor. Just another reason why scheduling OK St in a year where our SEC schedule is even tougher was a BAD move. Second, have you watched Auburn this year? Not saying they don't have some talent but scary it is not.
 

LandsurveyorDawg

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Mar 3, 2008
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I remember thinking it would be great to get back to a bowl every three years with Mullen. Now we are going to three bowls in four years. We are on the next level.
 

Incognegro

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Nov 30, 2008
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Where the hell are you getting this ****? How is playing 1 or 2 other BCS schools going to keep us from losing all of the major SEC games...? That is a completely baseless assertion that can't and won't be proven. Hell, us getting "battle tested" might be the reason we end up in Shreveport or Birmingham if we're lucky to get a bowl then.

I'll admit that I haven't been a state fan for too long (since 07) and ever since I've been a fan, I've only seen 2 losing seasons, been to 2 of the 3 bowl games we earned, and only seen State lose to Ole Miss once. But looking at history, our state, university and just overall knowing how football works, I'll never disagree with the way we're doing things currently.

You can't just learn to swim by jumping into the deep end. We're finally learning how to win. We took a back step this year when it comes to learning how to be competitive in major games but that's ok, because it's obvious to see we're still working on that. Loading your OOC schedule with teams that could all of a sudden be juggernauts for that year is not smart until your program is ready. I would've said we would have probably been ready for that type of scheduling in another year, but it's coming a little sooner than I would have figured so we'll see if we're truly ready or not.

How anyone say they're a Mississippi State fan and admit to that they'd much rather see us have a close loss against the top tier BCS teams versus a win against lower tier competition is beyond me. That is completely asinine.
 

RougeDawg

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Jul 12, 2010
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Add: and post scholarship rules, regulations, and limitations....

The guys that played in Mississippi's last Sugar Bowl are now in their 60's...they haven't played in a Sugar Bowl in the modern football era (post Integration)

I don't want to get started on how bad Vaught exploited the collegiate system in his day because its pathetic that the bears cannot fathom that their idol of a coach was one of the top reasons for scholarship and recruiting reform in the NCAA.

Look it up bears and try to fathom the truth. I know it's along the same lines of landing on the sun, but realizing the truth may reduce the delusions of grandeur your entire fanbase suffers from. I can't tell you how many bears I know that refuse to believe that their beloved Vaught cheated the system.
 

biguglyjoe

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Mar 3, 2008
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I want to make sure we can sustain this level before I start expecting a step to the next level. Thanks for your concern Neal. Dan is doing just fine.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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I agree--recruits won't say they care what OOC teams you played, but MSU vs JSU isn't going to be on Game Day, and no recruits will watch ESPNSX. They will watch MSU v Maryland. And crazy as it sounds, Auburn does have scary talent--they have had top 10 recruiting classes for each of the past 3 years, so ALL those 5 stars (4) and 4 stars (40) are still on the team--forty 4 stars!! Dude, that's scary! They are ranked 3rd in 2013(with 2 5 stars and 9 4 stars already committed) but that won't hold up if they get a coaching change.
 

The Stache

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Sep 17, 2012
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I remember thinking it would be great to get back to a bowl every three years with Mullen. Now we are going to three bowls in four years. We are on the next level.


You are exactly right. This is the next level. I went to State from 04 - 06 and never saw a winning season, so I'm happy going 7-6, 8-5, 9-4, or 10-3.
 
Sep 8, 2008
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I've been saying for years we need to capitalize on in-state talent. Mullen is doing his best to accomplish that, and just needs more time, a little luck & he needs to continue winning as he has. As Mississippi kids see us consistently winning 7 or more games a year, more of them will be willing to forego a spot on Bama's bench to come to us. With increased talent, even more & better kids will come as we win 8 or more, then 9 or more, etc. Each step could lead us to enough incremental improvement in recruiting to do a bit better, thus encouraging more players, like Tyler Russell, who could have gone anywhere, to stay home and come to State.

These kids can see that Mullen has been getting it done at State better than anyone since McKeen. More and more of the best recruits will look at that and figure, if Mullen can do it with those guys, what can he do with guys like me? Yes, it's tough when we have to deal with Ole Miss as the other in-state option, but they have not placed the premium on in-state that Mullen has. Hopefully that continues, as I think the plan Mullen is following now is the right one, and perhaps they only one that could get us eventually to the elite level.

Winning over Mississippi's premier athletes is the key. If we can improve on that most years, we will eventually get there. Adn when we start getting to BCS bowls, we'll become increasingly appealing to high-end out-of-state recruits as well. It can happen. I absolutley believe it can, and I believe 100% in how Mullen is doing it, as well as the entire athletic department.