have we reached the ceiling with Mullen or do you think he can get us to the next level on being a 9-10 win type team on a more consistent basis. Discuss.
Do you think there is some complacency with Mullen as our head coach?...
- Thread starter dawgstudent
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I'm starting to lean towards we have hit our ceiling with him. At the same time we will never get to being a regular 9-10 win team which I am ok with. It is what it is. The conference is just too damn tough
I think we've gone as far as we can go. unless we hire some new kickass recruiter AND make some fundamental change in the way the campus and town embrace recruiting. We caught several SEC teams on down years in 2012 (Auburn, Tennessee, Arkansas) and I think the bigger question is not whether we can go to the next level and win 10, but whether we can hold on to an 8 win season, when Auburn, Arky etc retool.
I'm not sure we can answer that question with any certainty just yet...
If Mullen had put the focus and effort into recruiting in 2010 and 2011, we'd know a lot more....
I think 2014 is going to be the deciding year. This year, it appears that a portion of our fan base (myself included), that are praying for 6 wins and will be happy to be in the Liberty Bowl.
2014, however... I'm expecting much more. The D-Line will feature Preston Smith, Chris Jones, Quay Evans, and Nick James. Those 4, talent wise, should be able to compete with just about any D-Line in the nation. Forcing themselves into some playing time will be PJ Jones, Kaleb Eulls, Ryan Brown, Torrey Dale, and Nelson Adams. Justin Cox and Nick Redmond will be our CBs (with Love and Jiles beind adequate backups). Arrington, Hughes, Market, and Antoine will be fighting it out for the safety job (this is my biggest area of concern). Richie Brown, Benardrick, Wells, Bohanna, and Beni Brown as the LBs. That's a loaded defense.
Our offense will feature a prototypical Mullen QB in Dak. It will have an offensive line that will only lose one starter (Gabe Jackson, potentially Tobias Smith if he plays). It will bring back the rest of the 3-deep in the O-Line. The WRs will all have a year of experience under their belt, as well as the TEs. The RBs should be completely loaded with Milton, Robinson, and Griffin (let's not forget Shumpert could force some time here or at safety as well).
If Mullen can't pull a big upset with that crew, I will probably say that his ceiling has been reached. This year, however, I'm just not ready to call that.
If Mullen had put the focus and effort into recruiting in 2010 and 2011, we'd know a lot more....
I think 2014 is going to be the deciding year. This year, it appears that a portion of our fan base (myself included), that are praying for 6 wins and will be happy to be in the Liberty Bowl.
2014, however... I'm expecting much more. The D-Line will feature Preston Smith, Chris Jones, Quay Evans, and Nick James. Those 4, talent wise, should be able to compete with just about any D-Line in the nation. Forcing themselves into some playing time will be PJ Jones, Kaleb Eulls, Ryan Brown, Torrey Dale, and Nelson Adams. Justin Cox and Nick Redmond will be our CBs (with Love and Jiles beind adequate backups). Arrington, Hughes, Market, and Antoine will be fighting it out for the safety job (this is my biggest area of concern). Richie Brown, Benardrick, Wells, Bohanna, and Beni Brown as the LBs. That's a loaded defense.
Our offense will feature a prototypical Mullen QB in Dak. It will have an offensive line that will only lose one starter (Gabe Jackson, potentially Tobias Smith if he plays). It will bring back the rest of the 3-deep in the O-Line. The WRs will all have a year of experience under their belt, as well as the TEs. The RBs should be completely loaded with Milton, Robinson, and Griffin (let's not forget Shumpert could force some time here or at safety as well).
If Mullen can't pull a big upset with that crew, I will probably say that his ceiling has been reached. This year, however, I'm just not ready to call that.
To be a 9-10 win team consistently Mullen will have to be on par with Sumlin and aTm for 3rd best in the West and Mullen can't get there without high level talent so short answer is yes I think Mullen is at his ceiling until he starts getting top 10 recruiting classes. Mullen gets his *** kicked more in recruiting than he does playing against the favorite and he's 1-21 vs those. You can't suck at both and win 9-10 games consistently.
When you play in a conference that has won the last 7 National Championships and 5 of those were in our Division, I think that it is unrealistic to expect 9-10 win seasons consistently no matter who our coach is. Alabama, LSU, Texas A&M, Auburn, Arkansas, Ole Miss...that is as tough as it gets, but I think Mullen gets us to the point where we can start to compete with those teams on a consistent basis. I dont know anyone else who could of gotten us as far as we have come in the past 3-4 years, and I think the longer Mullen is here the better our odds are at becoming a threat in the West.
Problem is that the gap between elite and good in the SEC is enormous. We will rarely, if ever, beat elite teams when they play well. We have to catch them on "off" years or when the football gods are against them (UF games during Sherrill years). Getting 1 5* kid every every 2 to 3 years and isn't gonna get you there. You damn near have to have a top 8 recruiting class for 3 to 5 years in a row to catch up with those guys. Secondly, we don't care about it as much as those other schools. The meatballs on MBs do, but our general public isn't as emotionally tied into it as other schools. Also, we don't have enough cigars boys that get pissed at a ****** season and say "17 it, Fix it" and write a big check. We got a couple, but not nearly enough.
I think the realistic best State can do is be a consistant 6-8 win team and
compete for the SEC west on average once every 10-15 years. With Bama, LSU, and A&M in our division, it would be almost impossible to consistantly get 9-10 wins a season unless the SEC returns to the way it was in the 90's. Saban and Miles will eventually retire/resign, but with the way college football is now, they'll find top notch coaches to replace them. I doubt we'll see another Dubose, Hallman, or Shula at Bama and LSU. They have too much money to throw at a good coach to bring them in.
compete for the SEC west on average once every 10-15 years. With Bama, LSU, and A&M in our division, it would be almost impossible to consistantly get 9-10 wins a season unless the SEC returns to the way it was in the 90's. Saban and Miles will eventually retire/resign, but with the way college football is now, they'll find top notch coaches to replace them. I doubt we'll see another Dubose, Hallman, or Shula at Bama and LSU. They have too much money to throw at a good coach to bring them in.
Jury is still out. 2013 wil be a big year IMO. I think we have alot on offense, sort of 'wait and see' mode on D.
I want Mullen to outperform (beat on and off the field) guys like Gus Malzahn, Kevin Sumlin, Hugh Freeze, James Franklin, Mark Stoops, and Bielema - notice I didn't say Nick Saban, Les Miles, Mark Richt. If we go 1-4 against that group next year, it won't be good for Mullen. If we go 4-1, everyone will feel great.
Can we go to Auburn and pick up a win next year over a team that won 3 games?
Can we go to Arkansas?
Can we knock off OM at home in one of the biggest Egg Bowls in decades?
Can we knock off a high powered OSU offense on a netural field?
I dont know, but those are much better measuring sticks than constantly pushing quantity of wins and acting like the Gator Bowl is the same thing as the Sugar Bowl.
I want Mullen to outperform (beat on and off the field) guys like Gus Malzahn, Kevin Sumlin, Hugh Freeze, James Franklin, Mark Stoops, and Bielema - notice I didn't say Nick Saban, Les Miles, Mark Richt. If we go 1-4 against that group next year, it won't be good for Mullen. If we go 4-1, everyone will feel great.
Can we go to Auburn and pick up a win next year over a team that won 3 games?
Can we go to Arkansas?
Can we knock off OM at home in one of the biggest Egg Bowls in decades?
Can we knock off a high powered OSU offense on a netural field?
I dont know, but those are much better measuring sticks than constantly pushing quantity of wins and acting like the Gator Bowl is the same thing as the Sugar Bowl.
I'm not ready to say that Mullen has reached his ceiling at MSU. Not saying we will catch Bama, LSU, or TAMU, but Mullen has been here for 5 years and he has yet to have "his kind of QB" and Relf doesn't count. Now, I do believe that it is Mullen's fought that he hasn't has his kind of QB, but, nonetheless, until he has a true duel threat at QB, I am not prepared to say that we have reached our ceiling. Plus, recruiting is getting better. It isn't as good as Bama or the top level SEC teams, but it is still getting better and should help us be a better team.
After years and years of losing, it takes a while to get out of a whole, and Mullen has done it just about as well as it can be done. We just have to continue to grind away and get to bowl games. I can't answer why Ole Miss didn't have to do that, but, like South Carolina, its gonna take a while.
After years and years of losing, it takes a while to get out of a whole, and Mullen has done it just about as well as it can be done. We just have to continue to grind away and get to bowl games. I can't answer why Ole Miss didn't have to do that, but, like South Carolina, its gonna take a while.
true, but comparing mullen to spurrier is apples and oranges. South Carolina got out of the hole with the head ball coach.
Mullen doesn't want to have a roster full of true dual threat guys though. He wants to sign a mixture of pocket passers and runners.
Passers:
Russell
Schessleur
Voytik
Dual Threat:
Newton
Dak
Cord
It's almost 50/50. You could put Favre and Bo Wallace in either, I suppose. That's where he wants this program to be. I wouldn't expect that to change in the future.
I think the problem is he got here and must have gotten some bad advice and decided to be a CEO type coach. The second he figures out HE needs to be running everything except SPT, I think we could be what Arkansas became recently (minus this year, and switch the pro QB to a run first one). I don't think 9 wins is that crazy, and I sure as hell think we can become a cult favorite of the SEC.
great coaches make good hires ..........
and then delegate. They don't coach every position. They get involved in specifics only when they are forced to. In the working world, your boss gives you an assignment and you do it. The last thing you want is your boss hovering over you. That means that you suck.
and then delegate. They don't coach every position. They get involved in specifics only when they are forced to. In the working world, your boss gives you an assignment and you do it. The last thing you want is your boss hovering over you. That means that you suck.
Arkansas had 18 receivers on scholarship Petrino's last year. We will hopefully never sell out our defense(what State historically has been good at)
Petrino's teams could score points but couldn't stop other teams from scoring so they became shoot outs
Petrino's teams could score points but couldn't stop other teams from scoring so they became shoot outs
I get what you're saying, but you look at LSU and Les and he is a CEO. That works for him. Spurrier and Saban are hands-on, it works for them. I think Mullen would be better suited having a hands-on approach. I just don't get that impression that ge is now.
It might have something to do with him having some bad hires though.
I think Mullen's 'complacency' this year was rooted in two things: (1) he knew he screwed up in recruiting and no amount of coaching was going to over come it. (2) He knew he screwed up with his DC choice and there wasn't a feasible way to fix it mid-stream.
And as bad as we **** the bed last season, coaching only realistically cost us a shot at two games. Egg bowl, if our offense showed up in the first half, maybe our D would have shown up in the second. Then the gator bowl, although a lot of the problem at the gator bowl seemed to be Russell just making bad throws. Our play calling didn't look like anything to write home about, but I'm not sure it matters when your qb has an off day like that.
And as bad as we **** the bed last season, coaching only realistically cost us a shot at two games. Egg bowl, if our offense showed up in the first half, maybe our D would have shown up in the second. Then the gator bowl, although a lot of the problem at the gator bowl seemed to be Russell just making bad throws. Our play calling didn't look like anything to write home about, but I'm not sure it matters when your qb has an off day like that.
I think Dan's done a good job here.
I invite anyone who is dissatisfied with his performance to go back to the archives and review the history of our football program.
We are on track to grow our program into something special - something that only sustained winning seasons can bring about. If, and only if, we don't have a bunch of people start complaining about his 'failure' that end up running him off.
I think we may can if we can get a top flight recruiter like Hudspeth. i don't Mullen can recruit well enough to get us there. Jmo.
My biggest concern with Mullen is the lack of faith when we get down by 2 scores. Have we come back at halftime to win a game under him? UAB I guess...?
I don't think Mullen has reached his ceiling but I do think there are 2 reasons I'm not very optimistic about the upcoming season. 1) its a brutal schedule, likely even worse than what we had in 2009 and 2) the 2010 and 2011 recruiting classes weren't really SEC caliber and that's going to drag on us somewhat. Now 2012 and 2013 recruiting was much better so with those classes coming on and if we can get a break in the schedule (like not having to play best team in the East at their place and not playing a high end OOC team) then 2014 should ramp up on my optimism scale.
Boom. This^.
Mullen and the program have been handcuffed by Tyler Russell for the last few years, and this year too. We've prayed for a great passing QB our entire lives, so Mullen couldn't Not play Russell just because he didn't fit his system. I don't blame him for that...but I do think he was a year late in this new offensive scheme we're seeing this spring.
Next year we will have 2 years of really good recruiting behind us, and a Mullen QB taking the reigns. The Dak Prescott/Cord Sandberg years will determine our ceiling under Mullen in my opinion. Not to mention we have an experienced SEC DLine coach that has a TON of talent to work with, a DCoord that other big programs wanted, and a DB coach that we think is a home run hire. I truly think we're just about to see just how great Mullen can make us.
It will either live up to expectations and we will make a South Carolina-esque move in the SEC (in relation to the competition in the West), or we will stay around 6-8 wins and we will know that the ceiling has been met.
I really look forward to 2014-2016, especially if we can keep the recruiting up.
My problem with Dan is he is too "CUTE" in the Red Zone. How many games have We failed to win because of stupid play calling inside the twenty?Fade route to a 5'9" slot reciever will get you squat.Jump passes from a midget QB on the 6 inch line are stupid. Reverse passes from a third string QB won't win ****. If your plan is a running QB in the Red Zone then stick to it.Do not swap back and forth.
I also have a problem with bringing everyone in tight and running up the middle. There is nowhere to run. if you are a spread attack then stay in the spread. Also don't put your QB under center and have Him run parallel to the line on the 1 yard line. Against Auburn we brought COX to block and He didn't touch a soul. Leave your offensive players in the game. Surely we had someone on offense that could block better than a DT. Figure what your Offensive game plan is and stick to it.If you are a spread team then be one.Throw fades to Your biggest WRs. You know **** that anyone should know.
I also have a problem with bringing everyone in tight and running up the middle. There is nowhere to run. if you are a spread attack then stay in the spread. Also don't put your QB under center and have Him run parallel to the line on the 1 yard line. Against Auburn we brought COX to block and He didn't touch a soul. Leave your offensive players in the game. Surely we had someone on offense that could block better than a DT. Figure what your Offensive game plan is and stick to it.If you are a spread team then be one.Throw fades to Your biggest WRs. You know **** that anyone should know.
Just give us that 2-3 year window.
I disagree that 2013 is that important. If 2013 is the measuring stick, then we can say that Mullen has reached his ceiling. The schedule is not favorable and too many underclassmen. Let's be competitive and maintain - everything else is gravy.
GOLDEN
Agreed.
(1) This **** about not having the best recruiters is a bunch of hot air. We hired a great seller in Brewer and he still couldn't seal the deal on our top (JUCO) targets. We've got to produce on the field, in big games, and be electric to watch before the best recruits will want to come and play for us. We've already positioned ourselves with the facilities.
(2) Why were these teams down? Because we were up. There's a correlation there. We have to step over one team at a time. If we can stay ahead of all the teams below us, have Miles leave LSU, a post-Manzel TAMU, and the competition catch up to Saban, we can be that number three SEC West Team.
We have to:
dominate the East
make the West stronger from Top to Bottom (yes, including TSUN)
Put togther 3-game win streaks against the Auburns, UPigs, and TSUN and beat the rest of the west occasionally.
Prior to 1994 when Rich Brooks got Oregon turned around, they has just 6 winniing seasons in the previous 28. They had finished the season ranked just twice in their entire history.
Don't tell me it's impossible to get consistently competitive. Yes, it's a lot harder to do in the SEC, but it's not impossible. We've had a history of losing games against great teams by a play or 2. A great coaching staff can eventually get those plays to go our way more often. I think we have a realistic shot at regularly competing for 3rd in the West, and occasionally winning the thing, as we did in '98. If we can keep a solid coaching staff, we should be able to do it more frequently.
Don't tell me it's impossible to get consistently competitive. Yes, it's a lot harder to do in the SEC, but it's not impossible. We've had a history of losing games against great teams by a play or 2. A great coaching staff can eventually get those plays to go our way more often. I think we have a realistic shot at regularly competing for 3rd in the West, and occasionally winning the thing, as we did in '98. If we can keep a solid coaching staff, we should be able to do it more frequently.
"never" is a long time. There was a point when people were saying Florida State, or Florida, or Virginia Tech would "never" be top ten programs, too.
The SEC West isn't always going to have five programs ranked in the top ten, either. Those things are cyclical.
It is possible to win, win big, and win consistently at State, as it is for any school in the SEC. It's not easy and we don't have the advantages other schools have. But it can be done. Jesus Christ. In your mind, why do we even field a football team?
Florida - 19.3 million people - 3 major conference football schools
Virginia - 8.2 million people - 2 major conference football schools
Mississippi - 3.0 million people - 2 major conference football schools
Not to mention that neither VA Tech or Florida St. would have been a consistent 9-10 win team in the SEC West in the last decade. Hell, Florida St. didn't even win 90 games in the ACC in the last 10 years. It is possible to win at Mississippi State. Jackie Sherrill proved it and Dan Mullen is proving it. But to be a consistent 9-10 win team is a VERY high goal in any major conference and that much higher in the SEC West.
Virginia - 8.2 million people - 2 major conference football schools
Mississippi - 3.0 million people - 2 major conference football schools
Not to mention that neither VA Tech or Florida St. would have been a consistent 9-10 win team in the SEC West in the last decade. Hell, Florida St. didn't even win 90 games in the ACC in the last 10 years. It is possible to win at Mississippi State. Jackie Sherrill proved it and Dan Mullen is proving it. But to be a consistent 9-10 win team is a VERY high goal in any major conference and that much higher in the SEC West.
Nike Money. That's what did it. Go start a billion dollar business on the backs of thai sweat shops. Then, give a ton of that money to MSU athletics. Pretty simple really. One of you jerks get on that please.
Have we reached a ceiling --- No Way.
Before Mullen arrived we'd had 7 losing seasons in 8 years. His first year was our 8th losing season in 9 years (in which he had a midget walk-on QB and maybe the toughest schedule in the nation). Then he led us to two bowl wins with a QB that was a terrible passer. And now we've got the best QB to come out of Mississippi in years, but he really doesn't fit into Mullen's offense. What Mullen has done in 4 years, playing in the toughest division in college football, has been amazing.
I don't expect us to win 9-10 games every year, but I do believe at some point the stars are going to align and we're going to have possibly the best season of our lives. I don't know if we'll ever play for a NC but do think we'll be in the hunt for SEC West which means basically a top 10 team in the nation.
Not sure if that will be in the next 2 years or next 5 years... but I think it's going to happen eventually.
Before Mullen arrived we'd had 7 losing seasons in 8 years. His first year was our 8th losing season in 9 years (in which he had a midget walk-on QB and maybe the toughest schedule in the nation). Then he led us to two bowl wins with a QB that was a terrible passer. And now we've got the best QB to come out of Mississippi in years, but he really doesn't fit into Mullen's offense. What Mullen has done in 4 years, playing in the toughest division in college football, has been amazing.
I don't expect us to win 9-10 games every year, but I do believe at some point the stars are going to align and we're going to have possibly the best season of our lives. I don't know if we'll ever play for a NC but do think we'll be in the hunt for SEC West which means basically a top 10 team in the nation.
Not sure if that will be in the next 2 years or next 5 years... but I think it's going to happen eventually.
Let's see....
Mullen's resume so far:
1)Mullen = 3-1 vs. University of Mississippi.
2) Lead MSU to 3 straight bowls.
3) Beat UF @ UF.
4) Has beaten Auburn, UT, Upig, UGA, never lost to our permanent SECE opponent (UK).
5) Transformed 2 star Chris Relf into a Gator Bowl MVP & an Egg Bowl ***-kicker.
6) Is single-handedly responsible for stadium expansion.
7) Has yet to lose to a DII high school team (something both Croom & Sherrill did on a semi-regular basis).
8. Just landed one of the top 5 recruits in the nation (Chris Jones).
I could go on, but you get the picture.
Yes, Dan Mullen is definitely underachieving at the historical football powerhouse called Mississippi State University.
I think the sooner we replace him, the better.
Mullen's resume so far:
1)Mullen = 3-1 vs. University of Mississippi.
2) Lead MSU to 3 straight bowls.
3) Beat UF @ UF.
4) Has beaten Auburn, UT, Upig, UGA, never lost to our permanent SECE opponent (UK).
5) Transformed 2 star Chris Relf into a Gator Bowl MVP & an Egg Bowl ***-kicker.
6) Is single-handedly responsible for stadium expansion.
7) Has yet to lose to a DII high school team (something both Croom & Sherrill did on a semi-regular basis).
8. Just landed one of the top 5 recruits in the nation (Chris Jones).
I could go on, but you get the picture.
Yes, Dan Mullen is definitely underachieving at the historical football powerhouse called Mississippi State University.
I think the sooner we replace him, the better.
What this tells me is we don't know how to adjust after the other team has adjusted to what we come out doing. You guys saying that Mullen calling the plays will make it better are in for a disappointment. We don't adjust on offense or defense. When we lose momentum the entire staff and team appear to pout rather than get pissed of and fix it.
Ask yourself, in the last two years have you been truly confident that we were going to make a comeback against a decent team if we went into half time without the lead?
Ask yourself, in the last two years have you been truly confident that we were going to make a comeback against a decent team if we went into half time without the lead?