Don't give up on Ray and our BBall Team just yet...

[engie]

Engie, it is basketball, any team is just 2 player away. What makes you think Ray can get two Players? I'll bet Stans would have had more than 1bigman and at least 1 person that could make a three.We have Chicken(who is here not because of Ray) and no help. Now I think we have some others than can play but as of right now they look lost. Hell, we should hire the chick that was announcing the game, she saw what acluster17 it was. Ware doesn't even know how to post up.

Ah -- we never looked lost under Stansbury and laid complete and total eggs against teams we were supposed to blow out. Rider, etc were all enigmas**

Ware knows how to post up. He was playing timid and it was like he wasn't "there" mentally. That's 2 games in a row he's been like that. I don't pretend to know why that is-- but it's not like we can really take him out when he's like that. Ware will be fine going forward -- he's experiencing growing pains -- and those pains, much like our team in general, are much more obvious than normal due to the depth that we don't have.

How can you say that Ray gets no credit for Chicken -- when he could have opted out exactly like Josh Gray did. Stansbury gets credit for recruiting him -- but Ray gets credit for retaining him.

I'm not saying Ray is the answer -- I don't know. I've seen some positives and some negatives. But he's got Devonta Pollard falling in his lap. That's potentially a pretty big piece -- and if he doesn't grab it -- it'll be another negative mark for him. I'm simply saying that people pretending to know for certain that Ray isn't the right guy for the job as of today is a ridiculous approach without a basis in solid, tangible facts. It's literally IDENTICAL situationally to the people that just knew Cohen wasn't the answer in year two. Were there not A TON of "red flags" with Cohen those first 2 years when he didn't have "his team" in place in the ways we managed to lose all those games? Sure there were. Alot of things that people could use to say "this guy is never going to win big here." People just dismiss that stuff now because hindsight gives them perspective -- that many lacked in the current tense -- which I keep bringing up in attempt to get our fans to learn from the past mistakes.

Regardless, I'm expecting to see marked improvement this year over last year. I expect us to get to 15-17 wins. If we don't make that, I will be disappointed, but still cognizant of the fact that this year was always going to be another throw-away year. Ultimately, Ray's tenure at MSU is defined next season -- and if he doesn't have us in the top 80 and fighting for the NCAAs, or at least with MARKED improvement, it will be time to go another direction.

 

[MadDawg.sixpack]

So many factual innacuracies, it's hard to take you seriously.

"Never beat any decent team" --- Really? Never? not a single one?
"Being a Top 3-5 team in the SEC in basketball is nothing to be proud of." --- But being 13th or 14th is? Seriously?
"Wins don't matter if your team looks like a bunch of jackass kids while doing it." --- But losing like a bunch of jackasses is better?

I'm not even going to address your Mullen comparison because I was never on the fire-Mullen bandwagon and I don't know many old Stans supporters that were. Those are the young, impatient types that think firing a coach with no better option on the horizon is a sound move.

 

[engie]

And as I've said earlier. I was on board with "upgrading our coach". I was not down with getting rid of Stans at any cost. To do so is pretty stupid unless the coach was caught doing something illegal or higly unethical.

Agreed.

I wasn't high on the Ray hire when it was made -- but we've simply got to ride it out now. Just no way we can accurately "define" him until next year IMO. We see some glaring issues with recruiting -- but some coaches win without elite recruiting -- and with basketball, you are always just one commitment away from turning that entire perception. So, we'll see.

I'm just not going to get too high or low on this season either way. Next year will be meltdown time if we're still not close. JMO...

 

[BriantheDawg]

Yep. That 6-24 SEC record in 2010

sure had me feeling warm and fuzzy all over, I must admit. There was no reason for any crticism during that season. None at all. Such an impressive feat.

But you know everything, like always. So how's about a little wager? I mean, you know what's going to happen, afterall. You're the all-knowing ENGIE!!!!! Never WRONG about ANYTHING! You EVEN know HOW to TYPE so NEAT!!!!!1111!! Am I RIGHT?? Did I get all my PRONUNCIATIONS in the RIGHT places??

 

[Sutterkane]

Actually I'm quite the opposite for both. I wanted Stans gone after 07 and fully support Mullen at this point.

 

[Miss.Stake]

Worst post I've seen today. Totally disagree. I actually attend basketball games, and the side of the court the camera was facing was far less people than on the camera side. Not saying it was a great crowd, but it was OK for a December game with our sub-par team. I have attended the majority of home basketball games the last 8 years of my life and let me say this. I COULD NOT BEAR TO WATCH ANOTHER STANSBURY BASKETBALL TEAM. I can't be any clearer. I was so done with Stansburys bull ****. The transfers, the POOR effort, the unpreparedness, the lack of development in S & C. the 17ING DUMPSTER FIRE. Stansbury had his chances. When Kirby left the staff our Basketball program it started really going to ****. Kirby was the one the players respected. We gave Stansbury an opportunity to tighten the grip on his players and make a good X's and O's hire before his last year.. and he didn't, it was the same ol 17ing ****. The atmosphere in the Hump has been declining for the last 4 years.

 

[engie]

sure had me feeling warm and fuzzy all over, I must admit. There was no reason for any crticism during that season. None at all. Such an impressive feat.

But you know everything, like always. So how's about a little wager? I mean, you know what's going to happen, afterall. You're the all-knowing ENGIE!!!!! Never WRONG about ANYTHING! You EVEN know HOW to TYPE so NEAT!!!!!1111!! Am I RIGHT?? Did I get all my PRONUNCIATIONS in the RIGHT places??

Are you mad that I'm calling out how your being logically ridiculous right now -- and also employing a readily-apparent double-standard?

Bet me!!11!1 Is that all you've got? I've literally not said ONCE that I'm convinced Ray is the correct answer. The fact that can be so convinced at this point just sums up what you are right now -- an emotional mess over a rebuilding process that's devoid of logic and refusing to look at the bigger picture or even actually read what I have said.

Yeah, that 6-24 record gave EVERYONE the warm and fuzzies!!1!1 Fire COHEN!!1!1 He's terrible!!1!1 He is OBVIOUSLY not the answer!!1!1 So, I ask -- who does hindsight tell us was at fault for his first 2 terrible seasons? But it's a shame that we didn't fire him and Butch after year 2 since they didn't manage to fix our baseball program immediately!1!1

There's a difference between the "warm and fuzzies" -- and calling people failures before they've ever had a chance.

 

[BriantheDawg]

Um, weren't you the one leading the charge earlier this season for Mullen to go, and let's hire Hud? But now, you've changed your tune on that, right? Where's the double standard there, douchebag?? People can use hindsight any 17'n way they choose, but I'm sure you knew we'd be playing for a National Championship 3 short years later didn't you? Because, afterall, you are engie. And you know EVERYTHING. The all-knowing engie.

Cohen had done NOTHING up to that point as head coach of MS baseball. Criticism was well deserved there buddy. You and Coach34 sucked him off and said he could do no wrong. Well, a lot of what I criticized him for the first couple of years - HE ACTUALLY F'N CHANGED HIS WAYS THIS PAST SEASON. I think ol' Good Will Bunting would agree.

You are changing this whole argument to fit your agenda as well. Ooooh, look -- Brian criticized Cohen!!!11!!

Back to the real argument here. We fired our all-time winningest coach for a ****** Clemson team's assistant coach. We hired him over another assistant coach, who was the only other real interested candidate in our job. Things would be better off if not for message board warriors such as yourself constantly beating the drum that we are some basketball mecca and can hire whoever the hell we want! As evidenced by who our pool of candidates were and ultimately who we hired, all of you were severely WRONG.

Now, your turn. Let's talk more about how Cohen did such a wonderful job getting to 6 SEC wins in 2010 and get this argument as sideways as possible.

 

[00Dawg]

Too True.

And I find it hilarious that some of you are incapable of separating two very distinct issues: 1. that Stans was done as our coach; 2. whether or not Ray is the right man for the job

those are 2 completely separate and distinct things.

Had I known how badly Scott would screw up the search, I would've been for keeping Stansbury. In hindsight, I'd rather have Stans than what we have now, but at the time, Stansbury pretty much had to go. I'm not seeing much that makes me believe Ray is the coach that can get us back to competing for the NCAAT. Our best player is a Stans recruit, and so is our best guy in the post. Note that I would love to be proven wrong.

 

[MetEdDawg]

If you can name me a decent team he beat go ahead and let me know. Bama a couple times when they were unranked? Try again. Oregon in a 8-9 NCAA Tourney matchup? Couple of SEC Tourney games. Try harder. When it really mattered, we got it done two times under Stansbury since I became a fan in 2006. UT in the SEC Championship and Oregon in the tournament in the 1st round. At least Mullen has 2 bowl wins already including one over a team like Michigan where we won by 38 points.

And if you think we look like jackasses right now when everyone on our current team does things the right way and we have no discipline issues, then I would really like to know what you thought we looked like in Hawaii. And I never said being 13th or 14th was ok, but saying we finished 3rd to 5th in SEC basketball isn't nearly what some of you think it is and it isn't even close to comparable to finishing 3rd or 5th in a halfway decent basketball conference.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I'll bite because I'm not basketball savvy. How specifically, from a basketball x's and o's perspective "see Rick Ray was a stupid hire."? Seriously.

 

[DerHntr]

Reality is that MSU basketball has become irrelevant for me and most MSU fans. It wouldn't be that way if Stansbury were still coaching and everyone that reads this knows that I'm right.

We were only relevant in Starkville, MS.

 

[engie]

Um, weren't you the one leading the charge earlier this season for Mullen to go, and let's hire Hud? But now, you've changed your tune on that, right?

Not really. I'm still not totally thrilled by where we're at -- nor am I convinced that Mullen is a better long-term fit for us than Hudspeth. I just am -- and have ALWAYS supported the stance that you don't fire a bowl coach at MSU. I also said in practically every single tirade that if Mullen somehow managed to get bowl eligible -- which would include a better victory than he'd had since 2010 -- that I was in favor of him to staying at MSU. I made it abundantly clear at least 20 times on here that my stance was based on the idea that he continued his same trend of losing every game as an underdog -- thus losing the Egg Bowl to finish at 5-7. Feel free to find where I have ever said otherwise.

I STILL think there is glaring issues with our team and program that I want to see fixed -- and until they are, I think we're basically peaked. Simply because I've chosen to enjoy the best victory in over 1000 days doesn't mean that I think matters are perfect in la la land. I'm just -- like most here -- taking a feel-good reprieve from harping on those problems.

Where's the double standard there, douchebag??

Aren't you cute? Yep -- pure logic on display**

People can use hindsight any 17'n way they choose, but I'm sure you knew we'd be playing for a National Championship 3 short years later didn't you? Because, afterall, you are engie. And you know EVERYTHING. The all-knowing engie.

No. But I knew we were in the process of turning it around -- and I knew it was going to be a long process. I actually knew the extent of how Polk had 17'd us over his entire second tenure. I had a front row seat for it in a way that many people never did. I knew we were going in the right direction. I knew Cohen wasn't quitting like those Polk players were. Hell, he was recruiting his *** OFF during that time period. That was f'n obvious -- and it took an idiot not to see it. And those VERY same players that he recruited while were a dumpster fire shitpile took us further than ANY other team in MSU history.

I sure as 17 knew we were going to be DAMN fine baseball team last season and said it from the VERY FIRST preseason poll -- when many idiots here were using every loss to call me out and tell me how dumb I was!!!11!1 Would you like links to some of those?

Cohen had done NOTHING up to that point as head coach of MS baseball. Criticism was well deserved there buddy. You and Coach34 sucked him off and said he could do no wrong. Well, a lot of what I criticized him for the first couple of years - HE ACTUALLY F'N CHANGED HIS WAYS THIS PAST SEASON. I think ol' Good Will Bunting would agree.

Yeah -- We were right, and you were wrong. Once Cohen got his players in place and the crybabies graduated, we started dominating. Glad he could change last year -- you know -- after the two previous good seasons**

Hope you enjoyed your bitching though -- because it looks totally hilarious now with the extent that it was devoid of any foresight whatsoever. Hilarious how that same 6-24!!1!1 coach put us on the brink of Omaha 365 days later on the road against one of the most talented teams in college history to not win a title. So, what gives? Didn't he still Sux?!1!1

You are changing this whole argument to fit your agenda as well. Ooooh, look -- Brian criticized Cohen!!!11!!

Again -- failing to realize the point of my argument. But that's not surprising given the cumulative lack of reading comprehension you've already blessed us with in this thread.

Back to the real argument here. We fired our all-time winningest coach for a ****** Clemson team's assistant coach. We hired him over another assistant coach, who was the only other real interested candidate in our job. Things would be better off if not for message board warriors such as yourself constantly beating the drum that we are some basketball mecca and can hire whoever the hell we want! As evidenced by who our pool of candidates were and ultimately who we hired, all of you were severely WRONG.

Yeah -- that had nothing to do with the condition your boy left the program in. Nothing at all** Why didn't we keep Jackie, damn it!!1!1 Winningest coach!!! Polk should still be here!!1!1

There's a BIG 17ing difference between getting rid of a coach that needs to go -- and hiring correctly on the next one. But you refuse to disconnect them -- so you can keep pushing your Stansbury agenda for as long as possible.

Now, your turn. Let's talk more about how Cohen did such a wonderful job getting to 6 SEC wins in 2010 and get this argument as sideways as possible.

Nah -- you've done a tremendous job of that all by yourself.

 

[tcdog70]

Ah -- we never looked lost under Stansbury and laid complete and total eggs against teams we were supposed to blow out. Rider, etc were all enigmas**

Ware knows how to post up. He was playing timid and it was like he wasn't "there" mentally. That's 2 games in a row he's been like that. I don't pretend to know why that is-- but it's not like we can really take him out when he's like that. Ware will be fine going forward -- he's experiencing growing pains -- and those pains, much like our team in general, are much more obvious than normal due to the depth that we don't have.

How can you say that Ray gets no credit for Chicken -- when he could have opted out exactly like Josh Gray did. Stansbury gets credit for recruiting him -- but Ray gets credit for retaining him.

I'm not saying Ray is the answer -- I don't know. I've seen some positives and some negatives. But he's got Devonta Pollard falling in his lap. That's potentially a pretty big piece -- and if he doesn't grab it -- it'll be another negative mark for him. I'm simply saying that people pretending to know for certain that Ray isn't the right guy for the job as of today is a ridiculous approach without a basis in solid, tangible facts. It's literally IDENTICAL situationally to the people that just knew Cohen wasn't the answer in year two. Were there not A TON of "red flags" with Cohen those first 2 years when he didn't have "his team" in place in the ways we managed to lose all those games? Sure there were. Alot of things that people could use to say "this guy is never going to win big here." People just dismiss that stuff now because hindsight gives them perspective -- that many lacked in the current tense -- which I keep bringing up in attempt to get our fans to learn from the past mistakes.

Regardless, I'm expecting to see marked improvement this year over last year. I expect us to get to 15-17 wins. If we don't make that, I will be disappointed, but still cognizant of the fact that this year was always going to be another throw-away year. Ultimately, Ray's tenure at MSU is defined next season -- and if he doesn't have us in the top 80 and fighting for the NCAAs, or at least with MARKED improvement, it will be time to go another direction.

First the Cohen argument is not comparable. he was proven A SEC coach of the Year. he had won everywhere He had been. Ray hasn't done ****. I was a Cohen Man and still am.. A half *** zone and we can't score. A midget was shooting threes unmolested. I didn't really see much of the "Rick "Ray" hustle. Who are we going to beat in the Sec if we can't beat a pisspoor TCU team missing two players.. agree with you that Pollard is a must, but I don't feel warm and fuzzy about getting Him. Basketball use to be my favorite MSU sport, I never missed a game, now I want to puke. I have watched since Joe Dan Gold , so I have seen it all. this is as pitiful as I can remember.

 

[tenureplan]

Off the top of my head 2004-2005 Florida. I could give you a lot more.

 

[BriantheDawg]

I CAN'T tell YOU how LAUGHABLE it is ALL the THINGS you "KNEW". You KNEW everything. Just like you KNEW it was time to go get HUD earlier THIS season. So AGAIN I say. Put YOUR money WHERE your MOUTH is. AFTERALL we ARE only 2 PLAYERS away, RIGHT??? It's JUST that EASY, right?

But OF COURSE you won't do that BECAUSE you CAN'T use THE BENEFIT of HINDSIGHT when making a WAGER can YOU?? BECAUSE you MIGHT actually FIND OUT that YOU aren't the 17'n KNOW IT ALL you THINK you ARE.

 

[engie]

First the Cohen argument is not comparable. he was proven A SEC coach of the Year. he had won everywhere He had been. Ray hasn't done ****. I was a Cohen Man and still am.. A half *** zone and we can't score. A midget was shooting threes unmolested. I didn't really see much of the "Rick "Ray" hustle. Who are we going to beat in the Sec if we can't beat a pisspoor TCU team missing two players.. agree with you that Pollard is a must, but I don't feel warm and fuzzy about getting Him. Basketball use to be my favorite MSU sport, I never missed a game, now I want to puke. I have watched since Joe Dan Gold , so I have seen it all. this is as pitiful as I can remember.

Your failure at reading comprehension is totally hilarious at this point. I've literally already explained this to you in painstaking detail of why the comparison is valid. You are just choosing to ignore it.

 

[engie]

I CAN'T tell YOU how LAUGHABLE it is ALL the THINGS you "KNEW". You KNEW everything. Just like you KNEW it was time to go get HUD earlier THIS season. So AGAIN I say. Put YOUR money WHERE your MOUTH is. AFTERALL we ARE only 2 PLAYERS away, RIGHT??? It's JUST that EASY, right?

But OF COURSE you won't do that BECAUSE you CAN'T use THE BENEFIT of HINDSIGHT when making a WAGER can YOU?? BECAUSE you MIGHT actually FIND OUT that YOU aren't the 17'n KNOW IT ALL you THINK you ARE.

This display of full retard that you are putting on is a total thing of beauty. Can you just not read? Third time you have tried to make a "bet" about something I've never even said or implied was going to happen. I don't even know what you are trying to bet? I mean -- I feel like you are a gnats *** from challenging me to a fight on South Farm**

Where did I SAY that RICK RAY IS THE MAN FOR THE JOB?!?! That's right -- I didn't -- and I haven't. I'm not sure. There's literally no way to know right now -- and "unlike Cohen", he doesn't have a past to point to. He simply deserves a fair opportunity for the 10th mother17ing time. But you keep on telling us that you already know what is going to happen and how this story ends -- and painting yourself into a corner to look like a damn fool -- based on TWO bad games in the middle of an already-established throw away year -- AGAIN -- after you basically made the same dubmass mistake on baseball. But, hey -- have at it. You've already told us about how you were right on Cohen -- even though you were wrong.

Have a hilarious blast from the past:
http://sixpackspeak.yuku.com/search...&submit=search&advanced=1&page=3#.UqKvbvRDsiX

You're definitely the right one to be calling out other people's predictions and foresight though**

 

[jmac.sixpack]

A wager on what? I'm not the one pretending that I know the future. What I do know is it's way too damn early to be pretending that you know how this story ends with any degree of accuracy.

We are 2 pieces away from being a pretty damn competitive team. We need a pure shooter -- that Thomas is supposed to be but hasn't grown into -- and we need another 5 to go along with the continued development of Ware, Sword, and Ready.

You got to be kidding - 2 pieces away. We need more way more than that. Well, I guess you meant Shaquille and Larry Bird in their NBA primes.

 

[thunderclap]

It is not Ray's fault. His players turn the ball over too much and aren't talented enough.

 

[HailState39110]

Cohen and Ray hires are very different IMO as we'll. Cohen was a proven winner and was recruting at a high level after he was left with nothing. Ray, other than coming across as a nice guy, was an assistant for a below average BCS school that has not been recruiting at a high level . I seriously think that Mailk Newman and signing Pollard might be his only hope at this point. No one on our current roster will allow Ray to be successful.

 

[MetEdDawg]

I would love for an example within the last 9 years.

I mean seriously. He had some decent wins in tournaments, but in the regular season he had very few his last 5 years. Always came close but never got over the hump. Both #1 UF teams, UK multiple times, lost to good Bama teams, lost our nonconference games against good teams like Clemson, Western Kentucky, Washington State, Texas Tech, Charlotte, Cincinnati ( I could go on but I think you get the point). I mean the list goes on and on.

We had good teams that severely underachieved. At least Ray is playing at the potential of this team right now. We are what we thought we would be. Difficult scoring points, pretty good defensively, deeper bench so we can play a full 40 minutes, not very big so difficult rebounding, but still overall better than last year. It's year 2 of not just a rebuild, but a complete and total rebuild. We've kicked off multiple players (all Stansbury guys), we had an insane number of injuries, and we are still trying to get quality players here, which it's tough to do when you were left with the crap Stansbury left us with.

Ray needs time. Some of you say 3 years. That's laughable. Why would a really talented basketball player want to come to MSU right now? You guys act like Ray should just be able to get nationally ranked 4 and 5 stars right now. How stupid is that? We can't just grab up these guys in year 2 of a total rebuild. It's gonna take time, which is something MSU fans don't understand. MSU is not a 3 years and you better turn it around school. Takes longer than that here.

Good thing we didn't get rid of Cohen when a lot of you wanted to. And Mullen proved a bunch of you wrong as well. I think it's funny that two of our best coaches in their respective sports should be fired (according to our fans) at the end of this year (Mullen), and should have been fired at the end of the 2012 season (Cohen). We have to go through bad times to turn things around at MSU. That's been proven. But our fans want instant success and they want it sustained without ever having a bad year. That's why our fan base is so psychotic. They want things that very few programs in the entire country have but think we should just be able to do it regardless. Our fan base is crazy.

 

[shannondawg]

What about the year we went undefeated on the road and won SEC outright? We were an official away from beating Ky numerous times..

 

[jdbulldog]

If you believe Ray is all we could get then you do not know the truth. We had committed to someone else who even had put together some of the staff that would be coming to MSU. It would have been a choice that would have brought much energy to the program from the fan base and recruits. I know this first hand...not from a secondary source. Strickland, for whatever reason, changed his mind in the last few hours of the process. He completely and totally blew it and didn't have the nerve to call the other guy and tell him that he was going in a different direction. Believe it if you want to or not. It is my opinion that a change had become necessary. It is a fact that Strickland screwed over a person who would have led our program to new heights. It truly sucks. It is a shame that more people do not know the real truth about that process and how it went down.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

This is really startig to sound llike a song I heard somewhere.

Which is better, the dumpster fire laughing stock or the zero experience coach and no talent laughing stock?

"Either way you lose..."

 

[MagnificentBastard]

Who is this program savior that you are speaking of? By the way, you lose a lot of credibility as "Mr Insider" when you don't even know our athletic director's name.

 

[The Usual Suspect]

Wrong, we were never relevent in the NE, but I have lived in TX for 20 years...

and we were definitely more relevant to my friends in TX then, especially when we played TX in the tourney. A coach with Stansbury's success that had a better personality for the media would have been very recognizable. That being said, I liked Richard Williams better. I can't understand why anyone that is old enough to remember the days before Richard Williams would think we are better off right now not having Stans.

 

[Shmuley]

And the facilities suck too.

 

[DawgatAuburn]

KY, FL, and MSU were the top 3 teams in wins over the last 10 years.

If you are talking about in the SEC, no, we were not. In fact, Stansbury was never in the top 3 in the SEC and he was trending downward quickly. How we managed to believe we were top three is beyond me. We had a great year and a few good ones. But we were never a top three program under Stansbury.

Here are some real facts for you.

After winning the league in 2004, Stansbury was only in the top 3 one other time, in 2008. In fact, we were only in the top three a total of three times - 2002, 2004 and 2008.

Over the entirety of his tenure, Stansbury was the 4th winningest coach in the league. Over the last 8 years of his tenure though, he was fifth. Over the last three years he was sixth. The last year he was tied for sixth. Trending down.

Rick Ray obviously has a lot to prove and at this point he can't hold Stansbury's jock, but getting rid of Stansbury was without a doubt the right move. Irrespective of the W-L record, the program had been destroyed. If Ray can't get it together in the next two years, he needs to be fired.

 

[tcdog70]

Your failure at reading comprehension is totally hilarious at this point. I've literally already explained this to you in painstaking detail of why the comparison is valid. You are just choosing to ignore it.

I can read . I'm sorry you are in pain trying to make a comparison when there is no valid comparison to make. But at least you you found some comedy in my post.

 

[jdbulldog]

this "program saviour" does not want his name associated with MSU unless he would have been announced as our new head coach....and he was waiting for the phone call that was supposed to confirm that, but instead it was a call from someone other than our "awesome" S Stickland (I choose to spell it this way, btw) out of disrespect to him. I have never been a "Mr. Insider" on MSU sports, but on this particular matter I can say my post is 100 per cent accurate. I do not know this "savior" personally, but one of his "would have been" staff appointments is a very good friend of mine. That is how I know this story and exactly how it unfolded. Until then I had a positive view of our AD.

 

[tenureplan]

pretty good defensively

Dude, the other night was the worst defensive MSU performance I've ever seen

 

[MetEdDawg]

We gave up 71 points to TCU and that was the worst defensive performance

you've ever seen? Nice job at staying objective.

That must have been a pretty bad performance for it to be worse than giving up 88 to Rider at home as a ranked team, or giving up 83 to Troy in overtime at home, or giving up 98 to Arkansas, or the many many other performances I've seen. I watched the entire game and if you think that was worse than a good portion of what Stansbury put out there with significantly more talented players, then you are just a butt hurt Stansbury homer whose mind will never be changed.

 

[tenureplan]

We didn't contest a single outside shot or drive to the basket. We kept it close because they almost shoot as bad as we do. For the record, it was time for Stans to go, but him staying would have been better than this. Loafers 17'd it up royally.

 

[MetEdDawg]

Him staying definitely would have been better than this

but no one can really expect for it to have gotten better than he had it then could we? You get rid of a coach for the long term benefits, and that's the decision we made and I support it. We were never going to go to a Sweet 16 with Stansbury. We weren't disciplined enough to beat good tournament teams. I mean we knew what Stansbury was and I don't think anything would have changed that. We had good talent that consistently underachieved.

I'm hoping Ray can turn it around. Obviously what's out on the court right now is not what we want. But we still have a long rebuilding process ahead of us. We aren't a name brand in basketball and the SEC isn't a destination for solid players anymore unless they play for Kentucky. This is a tough rebuild and Ray is going to need time. Anyone that thinks this is a 3 year rebuild is insane. Solid, well established basketball programs can do it in 1-2 years because they can consistently get top talent. We have to build ourselves back up to get to that point. We will do better than last year, but it's not going to be pretty getting there. Still have a lot of growing up to do.

 

[engie]

Anyone that thinks this is a 3 year rebuild is insane. Solid, well established basketball programs can do it in 1-2 years because they can consistently get top talent. We have to build ourselves back up to get to that point. We will do better than last year, but it's not going to be pretty getting there. Still have a lot of growing up to do.

3 years is plenty of time. Next year is make or break.

It sure isn't taking Johnny Jones 3 years to get going down in Baton Rouge...

 

[tenureplan]

Totally agree

Not to mention the guy that ran LSU into the ground just kicked our ***.

 

[engie]

I can read . I'm sorry you are in pain trying to make a comparison when there is no valid comparison to make. But at least you you found some comedy in my post.

No -- you obviously can't. The comparison was valid in the presentation of it as fanbase overreaction during a rebuild -- I've even spelled it out for you multiple times in detail. The fact that you don't understand the comparison means you obviously haven't been around here long enough to know how it was for Cohen's first 2 years -- and are too dead set in your misunderstanding to do a little research and see for yourself.

 

[MetEdDawg]

Comparing us to LSU is laughable. They had a ton of talent on that team left that Trent Johnson couldn't get it done with including Johnny O'Bryant, Anthony Hickey, and Andre Stringer. We had NOTHING left when Stansbury left. We literally returned less than 5% of our minutes from the previous year.

I don't think some of you guys get it. Every circumstance is different. Three years for one coach is not the same as 3 years for another coach. 3 years at Indiana isn't the same thing as 3 years at MSU or LSU or wherever else you want to choose. You can't tell me having those three guys I mentioned who are either juniors or seniors with 2+ years of SEC experience going into this season is the same thing as having a true freshman PG surrounded by a sophomore Sword, a sophomore Thomas, a sophomore Ware, and a limited bench due to having to kick players off that were Stansbury holdovers.

It's ridiculous what some of you expect from us and what ridiculous standards you guys think we should live up to and the fact that you think our situation is comparable to LSU's shows me our fan base has very little capacity to look at our sports programs objectively and truly understand where we are compared to where we should expect to be.

 

[engie]

Comparing us to LSU is laughable. They had a ton of talent on that team left that Trent Johnson couldn't get it done with including Johnny O'Bryant, Anthony Hickey, and Andre Stringer. We had NOTHING left when Stansbury left. We literally returned less than 5% of our minutes from the previous year.

AND he's managed to recruit how many 4 and 5* talents now right out of the gate? We had talent here when Stans left -- Ray chose to run them off and otherwise allowed it to happen with the failed drug tests(yes, many, MANY college coaches warn players of upcoming drug tests and otherwise go to extraordinary measures to keep them in school). I don't fault the decision to get rid of those players -- but ultimately, he's judged on wins and losses -- not how well he cleaned up the program.

Croom -- came in, kicked off a ridiculous number of talented players who he labeled as thugs, struggled for years.
Freeze -- came in, had a few academic casualties that he tried his damndest to keep in school, but by-in-large kept a roster that was considered a dumpster fire and teetering on the brink in place, year 1 turn around.

The point being -- there is different ways of handling approximately the same circumstances -- one works quickly, one doesn't. In the end, Ray will be judged on wins and losses -- and that starts in year 3.

I don't think some of you guys get it. Every circumstance is different. Three years for one coach is not the same as 3 years for another coach. 3 years at Indiana isn't the same thing as 3 years at MSU or LSU or wherever else you want to choose. You can't tell me having those three guys I mentioned who are either juniors or seniors with 2+ years of SEC experience going into this season is the same thing as having a true freshman PG surrounded by a sophomore Sword, a sophomore Thomas, a sophomore Ware, and a limited bench due to having to kick players off that were Stansbury holdovers.

3 years is enough time in basketball to see obvious improvement -- and reason for optimism -- both on the court and in recruiting. If Ray isn't pretty near Stansbury levels of on-court success by next year, we probably went the wrong direction on the front end in hiring him. It doesn't take decades to get basketball programs up and kicking. Sorry -- it doesn't. Especially one that has been pretty damn good and successful regionally for almost 20 years.

It's ridiculous what some of you expect from us and what ridiculous standards you guys think we should live up to and the fact that you think our situation is comparable to LSU's shows me our fan base has very little capacity to look at our sports programs objectively and truly understand where we are compared to where we should expect to be.

If you say so.

What's ridiculous is firing a coach for failing to obtain a consistent standard -- and then not holding the next guy to the same damn standards after giving him a reasonable amount of time to get things going. 3 years is enough time to either show you do or do not deserve the 4th year.