Don't quit watching the world cup now.
- Thread starter Shamoan
- Start date
Name me all the teams ranked in the top 5 at some point in the last 10 years that have also made it to two knockout stages in the last 2 World Cups.
It's his same attitude that will continue to dog the USA in domestic club play and whatnot.
We have the best training facilities in the world. We have the most resources (Klinsmann makes $2.5m/yr). We continue to pump out world class players (Dempsey, Bradley, Howard, Guzan, Bedoya, soon to be Yedlin).
I'm not saying we're 17ing Spain, Brazil, or Germany. But I bet you none of those teams wants to play us in a friendly (the 2 of those we have played recently we have beat). We are MUCH better than England, and thinking we aren't is insane. If we didn't call the sport soccer and didn't use baseball and football references to refer to players this wouldn't even be a discussion.
We're elite, but maybe that's my own opinion and I will certainly bow to your difference of opinion. We perform. We both agree.
Historically, we're absolute ****. There, we will agree too. Maybe some people can't differ the college team we fielded in 1990 and the 2014 team and what will be a 100% foreign league roster team in 2018.
ETA: I won't secede from my opinion that thinking that 1-1-2 is a bad record. If England or Italy left with that record they would be more than happy. You're COMPLETELY discounting the fact that we revamped the formation we prepared for for months 20 minutes into tournament and then purposely started 3 scrubs in the 3rd game when it was almost impossible for us not to advance.
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Ok. You are right. America is elite and our record of 1-1-1 in the scary group of death (against a Portugal team that had 3 starters out due to injury or suspension) proved that coupled with our valiant defeat at the hands of Belgium where it took the performance of a lifetime to keep the match from being 3 or 4 (at best) to 1...and in doing so failed to mention that Belgium has scored ALL their goals in 70' plus...so the accomplishment that we made it deep into the 90' without surrendering a goal is pretty hollow as we only survived a few minutes longer than the other 3 teams they defeated late in the game...so our run to glory is a whopping record of 1-2-1
The other comment was an attempt at humor not an effort to degrade someone. How an obvious attempt at humor is irrational is beyond me.
Your inference that LSU and Ohio State football are elite team in the same way that the US men's national soccer is elite in their respective sports is pretty funny and I will leave it at that.
I suppose it's all subjective as to what one terms elite, but in my humble opinion, nothing I saw outside of an amazing goal tending performance made me think any part of USMNT is elite. You apparently have a more liberal definition of what elite is, and that is ok, but I suspect your definition is in the minority...however, I could be very wrong in that assessment.
I will try to leave it at that and I bid you good day sir.
The other comment was an attempt at humor not an effort to degrade someone. How an obvious attempt at humor is irrational is beyond me.
Your inference that LSU and Ohio State football are elite team in the same way that the US men's national soccer is elite in their respective sports is pretty funny and I will leave it at that.
I suppose it's all subjective as to what one terms elite, but in my humble opinion, nothing I saw outside of an amazing goal tending performance made me think any part of USMNT is elite. You apparently have a more liberal definition of what elite is, and that is ok, but I suspect your definition is in the minority...however, I could be very wrong in that assessment.
I will try to leave it at that and I bid you good day sir.
I can roll with that. I suppose that it is a personal matter as to what one defines "elite" as. I am not sure I agree with some of your other points, but I do suggest you keep watching the World Cup and not stop that the USA has been eliminated. Clearly, you have a passion for soccer and my larger point to average joe "I believe-er" is to keep watching as the breadth and depth of talent at this stage only gets better. It's a spectacle of talent that many of the USA fans never get exposed to... Watching more soccer can only improve ones knowledge of the game and can only be a good thing. That is all I was saying regarding the op.
USMNT is Oklahoma State under Gundy. Fringe elite?
Either way, we're 1000x better than the perception. I almost punched an Israeli the other day during the USMNT spectacle in Times Square when he told me he didn't think the USA was good enough to even be in the World Cup... When Israel sucks balls... That was just based on his fan hood of an EPL team. Everyone thinks we're ****. It's the same reason why Canada can't even qualify to play in World Cup qualifiers but has an entirely 100% European based roster. Americans are Mississippians of prospects.
For the second time, we're better than England. We were just as good as them in 2010 and in 2014 we would beat them like a drum with our best vs their best.
Well, not everyone gets to play in the World Cup, so we have proven ourselves and have been vetted by trial by fire just by qualifying. We aren't garbage and to my knowledge, nobody has inferred as much. We are a solid and at times good team but there is another level which we have continued to struggle to reach and in my mind, those are the teams that are in the discussion of being termed elite. I disagree about England, but our opinions (mine included) of which of those two are better are largely irrelevant. We can speculate all day as to what might or would happen, but in the end, it's speculation. I do think part of their problem is hanging on to players past their prime, with that in mind, I think it would be a close contest. Again, that is purely speculative.
You clearly enjoy soccer, so why would you stop watching? That's like not watching the playoffs and Super Bowl (TM) because team X lost in the first round. For those that enjoy the sport, why stop watching? Is it because you think the USA is disrespected? I am trying to understand...
You clearly enjoy soccer, so why would you stop watching? That's like not watching the playoffs and Super Bowl (TM) because team X lost in the first round. For those that enjoy the sport, why stop watching? Is it because you think the USA is disrespected? I am trying to understand...
Because for me as MOSTLY an international fan as I speculate a significant majority of American fans are, my fanhood is squandered by the USMNT not being in it. In my world I see players as their FIFA representative, even when I watch club soccer.
It's like a lot of you who watch the NFL and only see Texas Tech, Michigan, blah blah blah.
USMNT lacks a star talent, but something we've had the last 25 years is a great amount of knowledge of the game. We don't have an elite talent outside of goalie, that we can directly attribute to our kids growing up with ****** defenses, but our players who make it overseas (again... I'll make the point that if they weren't "American" a lot more would) are pegged with their exceptional knowledge of the game. The same reason why Japanese players who make the MLB are. They played **** talent and knew the game.
1 on 1 are we better than England? 17 no. But for some reason it's magnified 100x more than basketball on who has the best player or 2 or 3 players in soccer. 11 play. Our 11 vs their 11 is better. Rooney is the best player on the field. And I'm not convinced age has anything to do with that since half our starters this world cup were 30.
ETA: I'm not going to go out of my way to watch another match like I did when we were in it. I bought tickets to see the Mets for $10 tomorrow (WTF?!) and will probably cop 10 minutes total of whoever plays tomorrow... But I don't give a **** anymore.
It's like a lot of you who watch the NFL and only see Texas Tech, Michigan, blah blah blah.
USMNT lacks a star talent, but something we've had the last 25 years is a great amount of knowledge of the game. We don't have an elite talent outside of goalie, that we can directly attribute to our kids growing up with ****** defenses, but our players who make it overseas (again... I'll make the point that if they weren't "American" a lot more would) are pegged with their exceptional knowledge of the game. The same reason why Japanese players who make the MLB are. They played **** talent and knew the game.
1 on 1 are we better than England? 17 no. But for some reason it's magnified 100x more than basketball on who has the best player or 2 or 3 players in soccer. 11 play. Our 11 vs their 11 is better. Rooney is the best player on the field. And I'm not convinced age has anything to do with that since half our starters this world cup were 30.
ETA: I'm not going to go out of my way to watch another match like I did when we were in it. I bought tickets to see the Mets for $10 tomorrow (WTF?!) and will probably cop 10 minutes total of whoever plays tomorrow... But I don't give a **** anymore.
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It is harder to watch when your team loses, but adopting other teams because you like their style of play makes it fun to watch. Some might not be able to do that. Luckily, one of my teams is still in it. USA, England, Germany, and Uruguay are teams that draw my interest and a few others I might be interested in and I find myself rooting for Costa Rica. I know a guy here in Mississippi who is second cousins with Christian Bolanos (a midfielder) and one of their better players, and can't help but pull for them.
1. Tim Howard is the only world class American.
2. Spain, Brazil, and Germany wouldn't think twice about playing us in a friendly. They don't care about us beating their backups.
3. England would beat us about 60% of the time on a neutral field and probably get a draw another 20%. They and Italy both got royally 17d by opening play in Manaus and being paired with Uruguay and with Costa Rica who was underrated and perfectly suited to play in Brazilian conditions. We're better than Costa Rica, but there's a reason we played them in Denver. They'd smoke us in Fortaleza or Recife.
4. Neither England or Italy would be happy at all with 1-1-2 from our group or even from their own (tougher). It's a huge deal for us to get out of this group, and rightfully so, but established nations don't starve for the publicity bump that we need. Prandelli would've resigned with our results. I honestly couldn't tell you what heat's on Hodgson now, but it would've been only slightly less with our 1-1-2.
2. Spain, Brazil, and Germany wouldn't think twice about playing us in a friendly. They don't care about us beating their backups.
3. England would beat us about 60% of the time on a neutral field and probably get a draw another 20%. They and Italy both got royally 17d by opening play in Manaus and being paired with Uruguay and with Costa Rica who was underrated and perfectly suited to play in Brazilian conditions. We're better than Costa Rica, but there's a reason we played them in Denver. They'd smoke us in Fortaleza or Recife.
4. Neither England or Italy would be happy at all with 1-1-2 from our group or even from their own (tougher). It's a huge deal for us to get out of this group, and rightfully so, but established nations don't starve for the publicity bump that we need. Prandelli would've resigned with our results. I honestly couldn't tell you what heat's on Hodgson now, but it would've been only slightly less with our 1-1-2.
I don't think the majority of American soccer fans are focused on the international game compared to the club games, EPL and CL especially. Now the American fan that's getting all excited about June/July 2014 and proudly explaining to you the offsides rule he just learned... yeah he probably can't tell Fulham from PSG.
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You're right about the Portugal game. But that means that they would have played better at full strength? Would the US have played better at full strength in any of their games?
Would it have gotten to 3 or 4 goals against Belgium? The reason Belgium had so many shots on goal is because the US went ultra-conservative. I don't know why, but they seem to want to get behind (in the first 10 mins) and then decide to play. I know Donavon really hates Klinsmann**, but he's right about preparing for an attacking style for two years and then abandon it. The US team played great football when it got down 2 goals against Belgium.
So, if Ronaldo doesn't make that cross (or Bradley piss away the possession) or Wondolowski makes that chip in extra time, the USMNT is still not elite?
No it's not hollow because we would have taken a draw with them if it would have been a regular game.
Here's the record of some of your "elite" teams in the last world cup:
England
2010 1-2-1
2014 0-2-1
Italy
2010 0-2-1
2014 1-0-2
Portugal
2010 1-2-1
2014 1-1-1
Switzerland
2010 1-1-1
2014 2-0-2
ETA: Some teams didn't even play a European team in the group stages. The USA and Costa Rica were the only ones to play 3 European teams (but the USA only played 2 elite European teams**). But that's the USA's fault for not winning the group.
I don't know why people don't understand that the Americas (outside of the usual Argentina and Brazil) are catching up with the Europeans.
No, it was a direct shot at what I said. You did everything but call me a 17 liar.
There's always a little truth to humor.
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I can agree that the US is closing the gap. There is no doubt it is getting better, but to join the ranks of those that many consider elite, we need to take another step forward similar to the step we took prior to the mid 1990's. I used to be one of those that poked fun at soccer, but now I enjoy it at the international level and a large part of that was watching and learning the nuances.
In a personal level, I don't know you, so I wouldn't call you a liar. All my jokes can't be winners and apparently that was a big swing and miss on my part.
There are several teams that have a nice 2014 WC record that I wouldn't consider elite and some traditionally elite teams that are now watching at home. As you noted, a team like Italy or England haven't performed well in their 3 games while other upstarts that nobody expected did exceptionally well. One thing is certain, if those teams continue those trends, a reshuffling of what is considered elite is most definitely in order. Italy made a HUGE tactical mistake in pulling Mario Ballotelli in trying to keep him from earning a second yellow. I'm sure they would like to have that decision back now.
That's baseba....err futbol.
In a personal level, I don't know you, so I wouldn't call you a liar. All my jokes can't be winners and apparently that was a big swing and miss on my part.
There are several teams that have a nice 2014 WC record that I wouldn't consider elite and some traditionally elite teams that are now watching at home. As you noted, a team like Italy or England haven't performed well in their 3 games while other upstarts that nobody expected did exceptionally well. One thing is certain, if those teams continue those trends, a reshuffling of what is considered elite is most definitely in order. Italy made a HUGE tactical mistake in pulling Mario Ballotelli in trying to keep him from earning a second yellow. I'm sure they would like to have that decision back now.
That's baseba....err futbol.
Maybe you're missing the essence of the term "world class"...
And as far as playing those teams in friendlies, we play just as many backups as they do. But we win. That's why we only get to play these guys once in a blue moon. No one wants to lose to Americans at their game.
Don't blame it on the weather. We are better than England. We don't have a Rooney, but our squad is better than their squad. Period. Italy, not so much.
And as far as playing those teams in friendlies, we play just as many backups as they do. But we win. That's why we only get to play these guys once in a blue moon. No one wants to lose to Americans at their game.
Don't blame it on the weather. We are better than England. We don't have a Rooney, but our squad is better than their squad. Period. Italy, not so much.