Why? The truth shouldn't be allowed to be stated?
Duke vs Arkansas
- Thread starter JimboBBN
- Start date
Is this true? Has Duke had TEN consecutive #1 recruiting classes without a single title game appearance? Has anything like that ever happened? That might be one of the most insane statistics I’ve ever heard (again though, I’m not sure it’s true?). If so that’s, well, insane. And I know you’re going to say that’s insane Kentucky fans but I live in Columbus and the insane OSU fans (because every big school has insane fans) were ready to burn Ryan Days house last year after losing to UM because he was getting top 3 classes and had the number one class just last year and hadn’t been to a title game yet. I mean at what point are you guys happy with #1 recruiting classes without a title? 20 years?
Good to know you guys would cheer for K if he left for UNC and would be cheering for Scheyer if he went to NC State. Currently one of Pitino players is our coach and he got a standing ovation at midnight madness last year so good call on us “hating” Pitino.
we rooted against him when he coached our archrival - crazy Cal will be welcomed back in 10 years when he’s no longer coaching a conference rival and fighting us for recruits as well. I know it’s hard for you guys to understand since your at a nerdy private school where 90% of your students have never even dribbled a basketball but this is pretty normal behavior for true sports teams like the Cowboys, Yankees, Alabama, Ohio State, etc
What’s insane about it? It’s all true. Duke has underachieved more than any team in NCAA history with all of those built in advantages and talent. No title games in over a decade in counting and not even many final fours in that time. The media isn’t going to tell you this little dude, but Duke is the most underachieving program in NCAA history. Look back and count the talent then count the title game appearances. It’s tons of talent, no title games. Duke doesn’t even play for a championship with all of that talent. Let alone win one.
Not sure if it’s all consecutive number 1’s, but it’s close. Might be a few #2’s in there, but still, it’s the single greatest assortment of talent in NCAA history and not one of those players have ever played for a national championship, let alone win one.
i’m not sure how much praise I’d be throwing at Cal‘s way regarding freshman. Let’s remember that after 2015 he did not get back to the final four. What was Kentucky’s recruiting rankings every year from 2016 up until when he left? Kentucky was right there with Duke every year on recruiting.
also, regarding talent, you must not have been around in the 1980s. There was a guy named Dean Smith, who after winning the title in 1982 did not get back to even the final four for the rest of the decade despite having tons of NBA players who stayed multiple years in College. Hell he had MJ for three years and 1984 is arguably one of the most talented college teams ever assembled.
regarding Scheyer, for someone learning on the job, he’s doing pretty well. What is it 95-22 so far?
muss could already recruit three five stars in one class for Arkansas (Black/Nick Smith/walsh)
For national attention, yes, mainly because cal. Every one treat Arkansas basketball team as Calipari team
Smith didn’t have this level of talent and neither did Calipari. Not saying Calipari didn’t underachieve of course he did. But when he was pulling the types of classes Duke was, it was 4 final fours 2 title games and a championship. Since Duke has been pulling the best of the best, there’s no title game appearances at all and 2 final fours. It’s not comparable. These classes are not created equal from #1 to #2. It’s a huge drop off. Calipari couldn’t land the top crop after he snubbed Phil Knight. So it’s a massive difference.
Nobody has underperformed with the top players in the country like Duke has in history. As much as Dean Smith underachieved and Calipari did too, nobody has underachieved as much as Duke has since they began to get the top players in the class exclusively. It’s alarming how bad they’ve underachieved.
Kentucky was behind Duke almost every year in recruiting
And Duke could handpick players since 2015, Kentucky couldo only get Duke's leftovers...
Huge gap between #1 (Duke) and #2 (Kentucky) in recruiting
Kentucky no longer get Wall/AD/Towns type talent after 2015, these types of talent almost would go to Duke
For example, you can see huge talent differences between Zion/Barrett/reddish and Herro/Keldon/hagans...One is #1 recruiting class and another is #2 recruiting class
As one of the nations top 3 recruiting schools, Kentucky doesn’t get off the hook for Duke failures in the tournament no matter how you want to spin it. Cal was ran out of town over it and to remind you, Duke won two titles while Cal was in Lexington. I think that negates his FF trips without a title.
We can tell ourselves this to feel better. But the fact remains Duke is landing whoever they want, they are at least "in contention" annually for the title. What do we gotta do to get back to this level? Seems like they are miles ahead of us right now, and thats with a legend retiring for them 3 years ago too.
Oh, so only a #2 recruiting class in the entire nation? There are four regionals that are won right?
Your certainty regarding the future is suspect. No one can know that we will end up with only two major conferences. The certainty that Duke is headed for the mid majors, however, is in my opinion ludicrous given their history, influence and wealth. With the memory of this almost 80 year old who can recall vividly listening to the 58 championship game Duke has always lingered near the top though never the championship until the 90’s. They made the FF three times in the 60’s, two more than we did, and in the infamous loss to Texas Western we beat them in the semis. They made only one to our two in the 70’s and it was certainly sweet when Goose got loose. They made three Final Fours in the 80’ to our single. Bottom line they have won with multiple coaches, have a cache of an Ivy, remarkable media support and influence, and the wealth of their alumni. Even if your forecast of two conferences comes about they will not be left out in the cold. My prediction is that they would end up in the Big10. Their academics line up with what the Big10 believes themselves are and another school that OSU and Michigan can beat in football while bringing in the basketball package also would appeal. If, as you predict, they don’t end up in a conference they can go the route of Notre Dame in football and have an easier route to the tournament. I just wish I had enough years left to see if your or my forecasts are more accurate or that we both we very wrong.
that was one good arkansas class under muss, cal bring that in every year without fail while being a better coach
yeah and now we cant even get players to come here instead of mizzou
Oh, so only a #2 recruiting class in the entire nation? There are four regionals that are won right?
I don’t think some of you understand. There is no comparison is Duke and Kentucky in recruiting during these last 10 years. Kentucky rolling in with 5 players ranked 10-20 is not the same as Duke reeling in guys like Zion, Flagg, and Boozer. And that’s not mentioning the rest of them I won’t take the time to name. Kentucky’s #2 classes have not even come close to comparing to Dukes #1. Hell Duke has even had a #2 class that should have been 1.
This isn’t going to be thrown in a wash and we’re not going to pretend theyre both just super great classes. It’s not true they’re not close in power.
Duke has amassed the most talent over a decade span that I’ve ever seen. And none of those players have played for a championship, and most of all of them never even saw a final four. It is 100% the biggest underachievement in NCAA history in my lifetime, worse than Dean Smith. Duke has also had Nike funneling players, unethical recruiting practices (Team USA), and the NCAA allowing them to pay players and break rules before it was allowed.
All of that, the best players in the country, no title game appearances and only a couple of final fours. This isn’t debatable, it’s a fact. It’s the most underachieving era I’ve ever seen and that goes for everyone else too.
So instead of saying yes I’m wrong, you want to go red herring and move goalpost. Kentucky’s transition and Mark focusing more on upperclassman now has nothing to do with your position or this conversation. If you’d like to discuss that we can, after you admit you haven’t had a clue what you’re talking about on the topic you injected yourself in.
You’re dismissed.
"moving goalposts" im just stating a FACT, we are being outrecruited in every way, upperclassmen and freshman
the experience over talent route hasnt workout out too well
Because Mark Pope did not recruit well and find right guys for this season
As for veterans team, Michigan is dominating, Gonzaga is great, even Michigan State is great
I believe with Kentucky resources and brand, I do not expect recruit the same level with Duke, but at least we can get best guys of Duke's leftovers, and can still be top 10 team and national championship contender easily with either freshman or veteran route
“Kentucky rolling in with 5 players ranked 10-20”
lol, again; since one team cannot win all four regionals what is Kentucky’s excuse? Few are going to buy the lack of talent excuse for Kentucky the last nine years. (Remember, there was no post-season in 2020)
like ppl also talk about returning freshman, and i think thats an area where duke dominates in too, they return freshman like isiah evans, and wendel moore, and we returned trent noah lol
Did he? Musselman went to 2 elite 8’s there. It fell apart but not sure that was something he had control over if you believe the rumor mills.
Musselman had to deal with an X-rated hardcore type of Jerry Springer roster situation that last year. I don’t think he had it in him to call another hog lol
I’ll just say “boys will be boys” sure as hell means something different to this generation than it did to mine lol
Dude, all of that is rumors. You are passing it out as complete fact and know nothing for sure.
Ok whatever. I don’t care. It isn’t my school. I actually wasn’t aware that one was a rumor but it doesn’t bother me either way
But that’s not what you argued. You’re changing it. If you want to say yes, you’re right on your position about Duke underachieving worse than anyone with those players. The classes weren’t equal. When cal had those classes it was 4 final fours and 2 title games and a title, which is far better than what Duke has done, then we can discuss how this currently stands with Kentucky. We were talking about the underachievement with Duke when you chimed in and now you’re not acknowledging it you’re just moving the conversation.
I can talk about anything related to what you want. But when you’re wrong acknowledge it and then get into something else.
I don’t hate Pitino at all. Huge fan of Rick.
Calipari, I don’t like at all. Not just because he’s a ****** coach. It’s the constant shots he took at our fanbase, our State, and our tradition. He thinks he‘s so smart, that none of us noticed.
i dont get what i was wromg about, we had differing opinions and you said i was moving goalposts
It all depends on the in time. Kentucky, UNC, Duke, Kansas - all have the same level of brand. There’s a lot that goes on behind the scenes that determines the pecking order in time. So right now Duke has a system in place that’s getting them. Before that it was Kentucky. Before than it was UNC. Before that it was UCLA. It’s cyclical. It’s not about leftovers it’s about fit. Mark wasnt trying to get Boozer. We didn’t really go all in on Flagg. And right now this is about money more than anything. So if Kentucky wants to outbid Duke for a guy like Flagg; they’ll get him.
Right now it looks like Kentucky might get the top player in next years class. So we’ll see how it goes. Also right now Duke is all in on freshman and we’re not. So it’s all depending on system and money. The brands for the top programs are always the same and it’s cyclical more than anything. Duke probably is going to take a massive hit when the ACC blows up. Kentucky could have a guy like Oats at that time or Mark could catch fire after getting his footing. Then the recruiting will move again. But the brands are all similar and of similar stature. Right now it’s who is going to pay the most between them.
read back to your first comment to me, then continue. I’m not going to repeat it. You were wrong. End of story.
No way the ACC survives. Unc and Clemson are 100% coming to the SEC. The ACC is not going to survive past this contract.
Duke is not going to be in the power 2. They took too long to work on football and now have nothing to offer. Coach K is a large part of the problem, he stood in the way of football for decades. Now it’s cost them big.
UNC will likely not play Duke and detach from them completely. It’ll be a game likely played in the tournament for a made for TV game.
There’s a reason the ACC talking heads all over ESPN lost their sht 2 years ago when this was all but verified. They know and Duke knows it.
Notre Dame hasn’t been as powerful in decades. I don’t think that’s the route Duke wants to go.
Duke is created from TV - propped up by media and Nike. It’s not as powerful as it seems. When they are no longer attached to a major conference or UNC, they will go down a step or more. That’s not to say they won’t be good or will just disappear, they could, but that’s not what I’m arguing. When there is no ACC and Duke is playing St. John’s and Georgetown every week, there will be a reduction especially when you consider there will only be 2 major conferences where most players want to go at that time. The gap is going to get far worse. It’s going to be important to be part of the top 2 conferences. More so than it is now.
Remember this post over the next 5 years.
He has definitely done that. Have no concern on him winning a natty there but he has their fans energized.
I think we have to give him 3 years because he didn't inherit a kingdom when he came here. Obviously if he posts a losing season this year or we go out in round 1 then all bets are probably off.
We all bleed blue on here but if you look at things objectively we haven’t won a natty in 13 years. Most of the kids Pope is trying to bring here were in kindergarten the last time we hung a banner. In addition Pope is still pretty unknown so he has some hurdles to overcome.
I think Tuesday is a must win personally. Normally I wouldn't say a December game is a must win but we need a W against a upper tier team after the 2 eggs we have laid already. UNC is definitely beatable and we are at home so we should win this one. I dont care if we win ugly or only score 60 just get us the win lol.
Just my two cents.
This is probably one the funniest post I have read. A debate over who has failed the most because of recruits?
Fans brag about the number of players in the NBA and it is usually between UK and Duke. And by a wide margin.
Jon Scheyer is 38 years old, he is following the GOAT and it’s his FIRST head coaching job. He is only in his fourth year.
In that short period of time he is:
94-22 overall
48-12 in the ACC
1 Elite 8 appearance
1 Final Four appearance
2 ACC Tournament Championships
1 ACC regular season Championship
The preceding are all FACTS. These aren’t predictions and rivalry team fan’s hopes.
I don’t know what Duke fans you are talking to but that kind of start by a young coach in the aforementioned circumstances is nothing short of OUTSTANDING. You know it, I know it and THEY know it.
The fact that you are comparing him to Calipari (66 yrs old) and K (78 yes old) who both are Hall of Fame coaches with multiple stops and decades of experience speaks volumes.
As for everything else you are talking about regarding the future of Duke during the conference expansion era is not even worth discussing. You don’t know whats going to happen, I don’t know what’s going to happen regarding things that are probably 5 years away, IF AT ALL.
The irony of Duke getting the higher rated players, but the Kentucky guys almost always ended up better NBA players.
Zion and Herro went in the same draft and I was surprised to find many NBA fans would rather have Herro on their team. No one would’ve expected that going into the 2019 draft.
But that’s neither here nor there, their performances in the NBA never helped us win anything while they were here especially after 2015.