***DUKE VS WAKE FOREST OFFICIAL GAMEDAY THREAD***

[BluePhil]

Nope because that was a theme to help motivate after Rasheed got kicked off the team. "We have no depth" I don't think is a theme or mantra to motivate players this year, it sounds like an excuse for poor big recruiting and development.

Well the development comment is meh. Amile has certainly developed and so has Marshall - they are the two upper classmen. Vrank was not recruited to be a this year star or even a real role player. Chase on the other hand has shown glimpses, but he is a frosh and not ready for as many minutes yet, as we may need. Too early to call him a miss and not enough time to say K hasn't developed him. Obi - apparently he is not what the staff thought he was - at least to be getting quality minutes with the style of ball this team plays.

So just a reality - not an excuse. I have never heard K make any implications or any comments anyone could interpret as complaining about a raw deal. K is using what he realistically has available to him.

 

[dukiejay]

I agree with everything you said. Jeter and Vrank aren't ready most likely for more minutes.

My point is you are allotted 13 scholarships, you have 3 healthy 7 footers on scholarship currently. K is making this no depth sound like a raw deal or he was dealt a 2 and a 7 off suit but his staff is recruiting and developing bigs and has not done a good job of it therefor the lack of post depth.

Marshall's roll should be what it was last year, nothing more. But because of poor recruiting and development at the position he can't come off the court. It's not a depth issue, it's a coaching issue.

You're just reading the quote. That's dangerous because you can completely disregard the context.

Also, just because you have three healthy 7-footers doesn't mean recruiting and development are bad. For one, besides UK, no school has recruited as well as Duke the last five years. Two, the plan was never for Jeter and Vrank to play major minutes this season. Third, the two of them have been on campus less than six months and you point to development? Please. Four, the injury to Amile really limits Duke in doing some of the things K has done so well for the last 35 years. And five, unfortunately the staff may have missed the boat on Sean Obi. If that's the worst thing going for us I'm pretty damn happy.

I'll admit, Marshall isn't a 30mpg guy. But everyone already knows that. It's not like you cracked some secret code. Unfortunately, the injury to Amile has pressed Marshall into more minutes....more than the 15-20 he was going to likely average this season. It's not a master design.

 

[Get Nasty]

You're just reading the quote. That's dangerous because you can completely disregard the context.

Also, just because you have three healthy 7-footers doesn't mean recruiting and development are bad. For one, besides UK, no school has recruited as well as Duke the last five years. Two, the plan was never for Jeter and Vrank to play major minutes this season. Third, the two of them have been on campus less than six months and you point to development? Please. Four, the injury to Amile really limits Duke in doing some of the things K has done so well for the last 35 years. And five, unfortunately the staff may have missed the boat on Sean Obi. If that's the worst thing going for us I'm pretty damn happy.

I'll admit, Marshall isn't a 30mpg guy. But everyone already knows that. It's not like you cracked some secret code. Unfortunately, the injury to Amile has pressed Marshall into more minutes....more than the 15-20 he was going to likely average this season. It's not a master design.

My development comment is more towards Marshall. He's been at duke for a LONG time and can't make a post move, struggles to pass, and isn't that good of a defender. So we have 3 centers on the roster, one that hasn't developed much other than physically and 2 that are not ready for prime time frosh. My point is that these are all coaching related issues. Amile's injury is a bummer and can't be predicted but Center depth has been a struggle for some time. It's probably the toughest position to evaluate and develop but if K has a weakness I do believe it his handling of the center position over the years.

I'm not trying to crack a code. I just think people are only seeing 6 dunks last night. Not the poor play for most of the year, not the poor rebounding last night, not the poor defense last night and most of the year.

Every year duke tends to go to 7 man rotation so every year duke has no depth per K, and that's just not true.

 

[Dukesince90]

Marshall's roll should be what it was last year, nothing more. But because of poor recruiting and development at the position he can't come off the court. It's not a depth issue, it's a coaching issue.

You lost any credibility with that post. Vrank was recruited as a project and Jeter is slowly being groomed for playing time. There aren't many post players in the nation that are ready as freshmen (physically) to come in and give immediate quality minutes. Coaching issue, you gotta be kidding!

You could tell in the first few minutes of the game that Marshall was to play without committing fouls so he could extend his minutes on the court. I thought of his brother Mason when I saw him not contesting LT's shots early in the game.
I thought that was one of K's best coaching games, with the adjustments made through this the game and with the foul situation Grayson and Matt were in.

 

[Dattier]

"We have no depth" ...sounds like an excuse for poor big recruiting and development.

Do tell: Who would you have recruited, and where, exactly, should Chase, Obi, and Vrank be in their development at this point?

 

[dukehokie]

Nope because that was a theme to help motivate after Rasheed got kicked off the team. "We have no depth" I don't think is a theme or mantra to motivate players this year, it sounds like an excuse for poor big recruiting and development.

I'd say less poor recruiting, and more future recruiting. Vrank wasn't brought in to contribute this year. He just wasn't. If he does, then it's gravy. How many times have we seen a guy that K holds until tournament time and he just blows up (Grayson being the most recent example)? If they aren't ready then they just aren't, but that doesn't mean there isn't a plan and K is just unaware of what he has or doesn't have.

 

[dukehokie]

It's funny, the way K recruited this last class, maybe in two years we talk about how well he recruited ahead...

 

[Dattier]

How many times have we seen a guy that K holds until tournament time and he just blows up (Grayson being the most recent example)?

Grayson is the only example I can think of.

 

[dukehokie]

Maybe blow up is the wrong terminology, but Zoubek and Lance replaced the Plumlees a few weeks prior to the tourney. Of course the Casey Sanders/Reggie Love combo of 2001. Even the change of Duhon to the starting lineup that season was crucial.

So I am flawed in my statement of guys not playing and becoming solid contributors by tournament season, but at the very least K and other top coaches are very good at making late season adjustments that involve personnel. That's my point really.

 

[WI#1Dukie22]

Elliot Willians had a big tournament as well after playing a minor role thru the regular Season.

 

[dukehokie]

Elliot Willians had a big tournament as well after playing a minor role thru the regular Season.

I knew I was forgetting someone in that timeframe.

 

[DevilDJ]

Duke vs Wake: The Mini-Movie...



Top Plays...

 

[Dattier]

Maybe blow up is the wrong terminology, but Zoubek and Lance replaced the Plumlees a few weeks prior to the tourney. Of course the Casey Sanders/Reggie Love combo of 2001. Even the change of Duhon to the starting lineup that season was crucial.

So I am flawed in my statement of guys not playing and becoming solid contributors by tournament season, but at the very least K and other top coaches are very good at making late season adjustments that involve personnel. That's my point really.

Gotcha. Grayson's title game is the best example of someone seeming to come out of nowhere, but I understand your clarification.

 

[Dattier]

Duke vs Wake: The Mini-Movie...



Top Plays...

I love the inclusion of the "Bull City" horns in so many of these videos. Has anyone done that as consistently as Amile? To me it's a gesture toward town-and-gown relations. Whatever else the lacrosse snowjob was, it highlighted the need to improve the relationship between Duke and Durham, and it has improved a lot in the decade since.

 

[Showenuff]

DJ, I really appreciate after every game your additions of the vids afterwards. It's a good touch buddy.

 

[Get Nasty]

Do tell: Who would you have recruited, and where, exactly, should Chase, Obi, and Vrank be in their development at this point?

Jakob Poeltl
A.J. Hammons
Amida Brimah
Diamond Stone
Kaleb Tarczewski
Markus Kennedy
Damian Jones
Vashil Fernandez

Just to name a few. Obi is Jr so he should be pretty close to as good as he will be in college. Obi is a pure miss on a transfer, something that's been rare with K and transfers. Chase and Vrank should be in their early stages of college development but Chase is a MCDAA and should have some form of consistent role even just defensively with his height and athleticism. He was known for defense coming in. He only plays now to spell Marshall a minute here or there or if we're in foul trouble. Vrank was recruited as a project and that makes sense. What a concept, getting more than 1 post player in a class. The problem is the equation for this year. Duke knew what they had in Obi (not the answer), and you knew from day 1 that marshall was not going to be as good as his brothers and should just be a role player at most so duke should have been preparing for this season while recruiting 2-3 years ago. Also, it was clear okafor was 1 and done so no one thought he would be here this year. Wouldn't have been difficult to get a capable center with jahlil or even the year before and let him have time to develop.

Simple questions. Are you happy with the center position? Do you think duke has a good chance at 1 or 2 seed and the ability to win a championship with Marshall playing 30+ minutes per game? When Amile comes back would you play Amile and Marshall together or separately more? Should duke have recruited more post players the last 3-4 classes?

 

[Get Nasty]

I'd say less poor recruiting, and more future recruiting. Vrank wasn't brought in to contribute this year. He just wasn't. If he does, then it's gravy. How many times have we seen a guy that K holds until tournament time and he just blows up (Grayson being the most recent example)? If they aren't ready then they just aren't, but that doesn't mean there isn't a plan and K is just unaware of what he has or doesn't have.

Again I agree 100%, and I think it's poor post recruiting that put us in the position at center this year. I completely forgot about Vrank until the first game of the season. But moving forward especially if we land bolden we could be in a good situation, just not this year.

 

[DukeDenver]

Jakob Poeltl
A.J. Hammons
Amida Brimah
Diamond Stone
Kaleb Tarczewski
Markus Kennedy
Damian Jones
Vashil Fernandez

Just to name a few. Obi is Jr so he should be pretty close to as good as he will be in college. Obi is a pure miss on a transfer, something that's been rare with K and transfers. Chase and Vrank should not be in their early stages of college development but Chase is a MCDAA and should have some form of consistent role even just defensively with his height and athleticism. He was known for defense coming in. He only plays now to spell Marshall a minute here or there or if we're in foul trouble. Vrank was recruited as a project and that makes sense. What a concept, getting more than 1 post player in a class. The problem is the equation for this year. Duke knew what they had in Obi (not the answer), and you knew from day 1 that marshall was not going to be as good as his brothers and should just be a role player at most so duke should have been preparing for this season while recruiting 2-3 years ago. Also, it was clear okafor was 1 and done so no one thought he would be here this year. Wouldn't have been difficult to get a capable center with jahlil or even the year before and let him have time to develop.

Simple questions. Are you happy with the center position? Do you think duke has a good chance at 1 or 2 seed and the ability to win a championship with Marshall playing 30+ minutes per game? When Amile comes back would you play Amile and Marshall together or separately more? Should duke have recruited more post players the last 3-4 classes?

Some on that list don't have the grades or character required to play "Duke basketball". The truth is, there aren't many bigs per cycle that fit the Duke mold.

 

[pisgah101]

We did recruit kaleb and stone

 

[Get Nasty]

Some on that list don't have the grades or character required to play "Duke basketball". The truth is, there aren't many bigs per cycle that fit the Duke mold.

I don't know the details of their academics but I'm sure your comment is true and i understand Duke isn't like everyone else.

Post play is such a roller coaster ride at duke, there isn't really ever consistency. With that being said, I am very confident that PG play is much more important than the center position in college and our Lack of consistent quality PG Play this year isn't helping the center position. There aren't a ton of easy opportunities created for the post like previous years similar to the wake forest game.

 

[dukiejay]

Jakob Poeltl
A.J. Hammons
Amida Brimah
Diamond Stone
Kaleb Tarczewski
Markus Kennedy
Damian Jones
Vashil Fernandez

Just to name a few. Obi is Jr so he should be pretty close to as good as he will be in college. Obi is a pure miss on a transfer, something that's been rare with K and transfers. Chase and Vrank should not be in their early stages of college development but Chase is a MCDAA and should have some form of consistent role even just defensively with his height and athleticism. He was known for defense coming in. He only plays now to spell Marshall a minute here or there or if we're in foul trouble. Vrank was recruited as a project and that makes sense. What a concept, getting more than 1 post player in a class. The problem is the equation for this year. Duke knew what they had in Obi (not the answer), and you knew from day 1 that marshall was not going to be as good as his brothers and should just be a role player at most so duke should have been preparing for this season while recruiting 2-3 years ago. Also, it was clear okafor was 1 and done so no one thought he would be here this year. Wouldn't have been difficult to get a capable center with jahlil or even the year before and let him have time to develop.

Simple questions. Are you happy with the center position? Do you think duke has a good chance at 1 or 2 seed and the ability to win a championship with Marshall playing 30+ minutes per game? When Amile comes back would you play Amile and Marshall together or separately more? Should duke have recruited more post players the last 3-4 classes?

Duke did recruit some of the guys you mentioned. You can't recruit every single big in the country, though. And some good revisionist history on your part too. A few of the guys you mentioned were hardly on the radar of mid-major teams. Besides, most people know, excluding you, that different players have different ceilings. The problem is that each player is on their course.

Am I happy with the center position? I'm not sad about it. Marshall has done every single thing ever asked of him. Bitching and moaning about it gets me nowhere.

Can Duke be a 1 or 2 seed and win the championship with Marshall at center? Maybe, maybe not. For one, doing any of things you mentioned are damn hard. Duke was a 1-seed last year and won a national championship. We then proceeded to lose our four best players. That we're even able to entertain this discussion speaks volumes.

When Amile returns? Marshall's minutes will go down some. They're up because of the injury. And if you paid attention, they were only playing 12-15 minutes together per game the way it is. The main reason they won't play together as much is become of Ingram and Kennard's continued growth.

Should we have recruited more post players? We recruited quite a few. Some picked us and some didn't. Landing a Tarczewski, for example, could have had a direct effect on landing Okafor or others. In addition, Duke's perceived 'lead' for Okafor also may have had an impact. Duke tends to be pretty selective in their process....meaning you aren't going to see 15 offers go out to kids in any given class.

The Duke staff will be the first one's to tell you they do make mistakes. And some kids they don't land that they thought they may. But you know what? The track record is pretty damn good doing things their way.

 

[dbav]

I'm going to piggy back on what's been said in this thread already. We showed a lot of mental toughness. Wake made some runs and we held strong during those times when we could have just folded. I thought this was a big game for our confidence moving forward.

 

[Get Nasty]

Duke did recruit some of the guys you mentioned. You can't recruit every single big in the country, though. And some good revisionist history on your part too. A few of the guys you mentioned were hardly on the radar of mid-major teams. Besides, most people know, excluding you, that different players have different ceilings. The problem is that each player is on their course.

Am I happy with the center position? I'm not sad about it. Marshall has done every single thing ever asked of him. Bitching and moaning about it gets me nowhere.

Can Duke be a 1 or 2 seed and win the championship with Marshall at center? Maybe, maybe not. For one, doing any of things you mentioned are damn hard. Duke was a 1-seed last year and won a national championship. We then proceeded to lose our four best players. That we're even able to entertain this discussion speaks volumes.

When Amile returns? Marshall's minutes will go down some. They're up because of the injury. And if you paid attention, they were only playing 12-15 minutes together per game the way it is. The main reason they won't play together as much is become of Ingram and Kennard's continued growth.

Should we have recruited more post players? We recruited quite a few. Some picked us and some didn't. Landing a Tarczewski, for example, could have had a direct effect on landing Okafor or others. In addition, Duke's perceived 'lead' for Okafor also may have had an impact. Duke tends to be pretty selective in their process....meaning you aren't going to see 15 offers go out to kids in any given class.

The Duke staff will be the first one's to tell you they do make mistakes. And some kids they don't land that they thought they may. But you know what? The track record is pretty damn good doing things their way.

Some excellent points. All I'm doing as a fan is I have the time right now unlike the coaches to critique what could we have done better or different to put us in a position to win it all in 16. The coaches are so focused on the now and moving forward with minimal self learning during the season. K has set the bar so high that we should all be shooting for a title every year but a title doesn't define the season. With that being said i'm not trying to be captain hindsight but maybe I am a little.

This all started because i felt it was slightly unjustified all the praise on marshall for getting 6 easy dunks. If he would have held Thomas under 10 points, gave up minimal offensive rebounds to their bigs (not all his fault), had 12 rebounds with a bunch offensively, helped out on the high ball screen, but only scored 3 points he would have had a much much better game than he did. IMHO he hasn't developed that much in his career, hasn't played that well offensively ever, and personally think he's been disappointing on defense and that's that most shocking to me. On the flip side I've also stated that he needs to be playing because he is the best duke has right now. I just don't think we can afford him playing matador defense to stay out of foul trouble.

 

[dukiejay]

This all started because i felt it was slightly unjustified all the praise on marshall for getting 6 easy dunks. If he would have held Thomas under 10 points, gave up minimal offensive rebounds to their bigs (not all his fault), had 12 rebounds with a bunch offensively, helped out on the high ball screen, but only scored 3 points he would have had a much much better game than he did. IMHO he hasn't developed that much in his career, hasn't played that well offensively ever, and personally think he's been disappointing on defense and that's that most shocking to me. On the flip side I've also stated that he needs to be playing because he is the best duke has right now. I just don't think we can afford him playing matador defense to stay out of foul trouble.

How is the praise of Marshall unjustified? He played an outstanding game. Was he perfect? No, but I think it's completely justified to acknowledge him being a huge factor in our win.

Here's the thing....Thomas scores 17 per game. For high-volume scorers like that a lot of times they're the one's that hold themselves below their average. You and I both know Marshall is considered an average defender at best, but it's even more difficult playing in this kind of situation. Like him or not, Marshall is forced to be on the floor 25 minutes per night.

And again....I think some of Marshall's defensive deficiencies were masked by Amile's presence. He was our captain on the floor, leader and vocally our best defensive player. In his place we've slid Brandon to that position, a freshman, who often times makes his defensive plays based on his athleticism. He's still learning too.

I don't think anyone is arguing that we have the ideal situation. But it's our situation going forward for the foreseeable future, regardless. What's important is that the staff and players trust one another to put us in the best situation to win on any given night. And you know what? We're going to lose some games. We all knew that coming into the season. But this team is making strides. Derryck is learning and getting better on the fly. Luke's confidence continues to grow. And Brandon is becoming not just one of the better players in the conference, but he's turning heads as a great player nationally. So again....things aren't perfect. But they're not so bad either.

 

[Showenuff]

I'm really trying to keep it nice here. I like Plumlee, he's no Okafor , granted. It's easy to sit here and nit pick what we "should" have done after you see the results. Every player doesn't turn out to be exactly what he is recruited for , however , no matter what they turn out to be, our coach does the best with the end result. I'm not sure I can see a Duke fan of any caliber complain about recruiting with the absolute CLINIC Mike Krzyzewski has put on in that field. Marshall made some "easy" dunks. I'm sure they do look easy from the comfy confines of your living room. You'd probably appreciate them more if Thomas' big *** was shoving you around out there. We just won it ALL. We get through this season, we can surely win it again. That's pretty amazing recruiting/coaching in my book.

 

[K-oach Q]

The problem isn't Plumlee...the problem is the depth to play behind Plumlee.

It should never happen IMO that you have only six guys that can give you minutes...injuries or not.

With Amile I guess you could say we would play eight. Jeter would get spot minutes like now but it would look much better.

I'm liking the makeup of the team more and more around Plumlee..who is solid not spectacular. It's unfortunate Amile is out a long time and there is no help behind him..that's all.

That being said K did a masterful job finessing the situation on Wed.

 

[Get Nasty]

How is the praise of Marshall unjustified? He played an outstanding game. Was he perfect? No, but I think it's completely justified to acknowledge him being a huge factor in our win.

Here's the thing....Thomas scores 17 per game. For high-volume scorers like that a lot of times they're the one's that hold themselves below their average. You and I both know Marshall is considered an average defender at best, but it's even more difficult playing in this kind of situation. Like him or not, Marshall is forced to be on the floor 25 minutes per night.

And again....I think some of Marshall's defensive deficiencies were masked by Amile's presence. He was our captain on the floor, leader and vocally our best defensive player. In his place we've slid Brandon to that position, a freshman, who often times makes his defensive plays based on his athleticism. He's still learning too.

I don't think anyone is arguing that we have the ideal situation. But it's our situation going forward for the foreseeable future, regardless. What's important is that the staff and players trust one another to put us in the best situation to win on any given night. And you know what? We're going to lose some games. We all knew that coming into the season. But this team is making strides. Derryck is learning and getting better on the fly. Luke's confidence continues to grow. And Brandon is becoming not just one of the better players in the conference, but he's turning heads as a great player nationally. So again....things aren't perfect. But they're not so bad either.

I don't feel like he played an outstanding game. I actually think he has played better games this season but it was masked by his "easy" dunks.

There isn't anything I think we can do right now to change the situation, or pull someone off the bench to help. What i'm talking about is what K could have done to prevent this situation. Again it's a hindsight analysis and i'm not trying to be confrontational, I just don't feel that Marshall played that good of a game. His dunks weren't the big plays it was the amazing drives and dishes that got him those dunks.

 

[Get Nasty]

I'm really trying to keep it nice here. I like Plumlee, he's no Okafor , granted. It's easy to sit here and nit pick what we "should" have done after you see the results. Every player doesn't turn out to be exactly what he is recruited for , however , no matter what they turn out to be, our coach does the best with the end result. I'm not sure I can see a Duke fan of any caliber complain about recruiting with the absolute CLINIC Mike Krzyzewski has put on in that field. Marshall made some "easy" dunks. I'm sure they do look easy from the comfy confines of your living room. You'd probably appreciate them more if Thomas' big *** was shoving you around out there. We just won it ALL. We get through this season, we can surely win it again. That's pretty amazing recruiting/coaching in my book.

I was at the game, i was able to watch him on D probably a little different than you at your comfy living room. K has landed some amazing talent recently no question, but we also have a 6 man rotation because of only 1 injury. That is unacceptable when you can have 13 players on scholarship. So it goes both ways, praise K for the studs, but we can question why we haven't been able to recruit quality depth. I too am excited for this team, I just think we are a consistent Defensive and Rebounding presence at the center position from being a true contender.

Also it's not nit picking when it comes to Marshall. It was very clear he wasn't going to be as good as his brothers when he was being recruited, he just didn't have the same coordination. The only reason he was recruited was because of his brothers. I honestly thought he would never be a starter for duke.

 

[DukeDenver]

Let's not "get nasty" gentlemen. I have a feeling Marshall is on an upward arc. Let's take a look at his next 3-4 games then revisit this.

 

[Get Nasty]

Let's not "get nasty" gentlemen. I have a feeling Marshall is on an upward arc. Let's take a look at his next 3-4 games then revisit this.

Don't take my comments the wrong way. I'm rooting for Marshall as much as anyone else. I think he has the ability to rebound and play defense better than he has been, and continue to not try to do too much on offense. I think he has been so focused on not fouling that his feet have been stuck in mud on D. K got on him pretty good in the 2nd half about his defense so hopefully we'll see more effort on D.

He's our best option moving forward no question and we need him to make a run at championships.

 

[GAAP_rivals]

I was at the game, i was able to watch him on D probably a little different than you at your comfy living room...

Congrats, you had a ticket. Good for you! Being at a game has more disadvantages than advantages in terms of seeing what really happened. In my comfy living room, I often watch frame-by-frame replays on my DVR to see how plays developed.

 

[Kingbluedevil]

I have no complaints about the way Coach K has recruited. It would have been a mistake to recruit more front court players with what we have coming next year. They would not be happy sitting and clapping for Giles and company. With the new rules you have to play some matador defense or you will not see the second half. Glad Plumlee is getting his chance to play and if we don't win a championship so be it. Losing four starters is a lot to overcome.

 

[ChapelTower]

Gotcha. Grayson's title game is the best example of someone seeming to come out of nowhere, but I understand your clarification.

Or the alternative interpretation is that it was a mistake that Allen did not get more playing time earlier on.

 

[Get Nasty]

Congrats, you had a ticket. Good for you! Being at a game has more disadvantages than advantages in terms of seeing what really happened. In my comfy living room, I often watch frame-by-frame replays on my DVR to see how plays developed.

you didn't understand the context. Show was busting on me saying i didn't realize how hard it was to make those dunks from my couch.

Well I watch frame by frame replays on my DVR Twice, once forwards, and once backwards! So there

 

[chov1125]

I just don't see what you would have wanted Coach K to do with our specific situation the last few years....For the first time in a long while we landed a top of the charts pure post center who was going to be one and done from the first step he took on campus....Next year we have another top of the charts big man coming in who will be one and done from the first step he takes on campus...Big man are traditionally the hardest and slowest to develop because they are the least coordinated coming out of high school and have gotten away with just being bigger and taller than most to date....This year we have a near top of the charts big man in Jeter who is still learning the nuances of the position and developing at a more traditional rate...We misjudged Obi who we thought would be able to spend a year on campus, prepare himself and be ready to play meaningful minutes this year....And we suffered a completely unexpected injury in Jefferson

If you want to be in the "One and Done" game you have to accept the fact that some years your roster is going to be thin in certain positions because of a set of circumstances similar to that specified above. You can only recruit so many at each position. Kid's today do not want to go to a school where they fear they will be 3rd or 4th on the depth chart even as a freshman. So when you lose one guy to early graduation, one guy to injury, misjudge one transfer and have one guy who is developing at a traditional rate yes you are going to be quite thin at that position.

 

[Get Nasty]

I have no complaints about the way Coach K has recruited. It would have been a mistake to recruit more front court players with what we have coming next year. They would not be happy sitting and clapping for Giles and company. With the new rules you have to play some matador defense or you will not see the second half. Glad Plumlee is getting his chance to play and if we don't win a championship so be it. Losing four starters is a lot to overcome.

Losing 4 starters is not what it was 15-20 years ago. Duke had 4-5 new starters last year and won it all. The miss on interior wasn't this passed recruiting cycle it was 2-3 classes ago groups.

 

[Get Nasty]

Or the alternative interpretation is that it was a mistake that Allen did not get more playing time earlier on.

Don't say that

 

[Get Nasty]

I just don't see what you would have wanted Coach K to do with our specific situation the last few years....For the first time in a long while we landed a top of the charts pure post center who was going to be one and done from the first step he took on campus....Next year we have another top of the charts big man coming in who will be one and done from the first step he takes on campus...Big man are traditionally the hardest and slowest to develop because they are the least coordinated coming out of high school and have gotten away with just being bigger and taller than most to date....This year we have a near top of the charts big man in Jeter who is still learning the nuances of the position and developing at a more traditional rate...We misjudged Obi who we thought would be able to spend a year on campus, prepare himself and be ready to play meaningful minutes this year....And we suffered a completely unexpected injury in Jefferson

If you want to be in the "One and Done" game you have to accept the fact that some years your roster is going to be thin in certain positions because of a set of circumstances similar to that specified above. You can only recruit so many at each position. Kid's today do not want to go to a school where they fear they will be 3rd or 4th on the depth chart even as a freshman. So when you lose one guy to early graduation, one guy to injury, misjudge one transfer and have one guy who is developing at a traditional rate yes you are going to be quite thin at that position.

THe issue isn't the recruiting class last year or this year and moving forward it is the 3 classes before last year. K seems to be recruiting more interior depth now or at least landing it, but we sure didn't land it much the years before last.

 

[chov1125]

THe issue isn't the recruiting class last year or this year and moving forward it is the 3 classes before last year. K seems to be recruiting more interior depth now or at least landing it, but we sure didn't land it much the years before last.

So you are comfortable saying that if we had recruited an additional big man 2-3 classes ago with Marshall on the roster you don't think that would have compromised our chances of landing Okafor?

 

[ChapelTower]

Don't take my comments the wrong way. I'm rooting for Marshall as much as anyone else. I think he has the ability to rebound and play defense better than he has been, and continue to not try to do too much on offense. I think he has been so focused on not fouling that his feet have been stuck in mud on D. K got on him pretty good in the 2nd half about his defense so hopefully we'll see more effort on D.

He's our best option moving forward no question and we need him to make a run at championships.

My main complaint on Marshall is that he does not play smart. We all know he has no coordination to be effective on offense. He has no lateral quickness to be good on defense. His vertical jump is also slow. Cannot blame the guy for what he physically cannot do, especially if he seems to try hard.

But he can play smarter -- he could have tried to defend Thomas with a wider and lower stance to dare Thomas for some jump shots. Just to see what happens. Also it was comical (and sad) to watch him jump sideways belatedly to contest a shot, swiping his arm at the air without any hope of affecting the shot, only to land way out of position, while the other team picks up the miss for a thunderous dunk.