End of SHU rivalry?

[William J. Leggett]

Do you really think the B10 hasn’t had a huge economic advantage over most other leagues for the past 20 years?

Why have ALL of the other power 5 conferences AND the Big East have MULTIPLE natties since
2000 and the B10 has . . . none?

Always next year in the B10. We’ll wait.

When did the B1G start really taking basketball seriously and investing at the levels they are now?

Northwestern that NEVER made the tournament is a 7 seed… Rutgers made the tournament for the first time and a few in a row since we started investing. You’ll see…

 

[burtmanjack]

I think based on this post you are either dumb or crazy or maybe both. So offer revoked.

Nothing I’ve said is untrue.

I guess that’s why you resort to name calling.

The bottom line IMO is that RU is probably good enough to have qualified but they just refuse to schedule an OOC that is appropriate or helpful for a P5 school. So that leaves them little margin for error, and they spit the bit this year too many times against teams they should have beaten.

IMO from an RU perspective removing SHU only exacerbates this problem, it doesn’t solve it.

RU should keep SHU and add better schools, not replace SHU and keep the cupcakes that SP likes to eat in order to make the W-L look good.

But the committee wasn’t fooled. And won’t be until SP schedules like a man.

 

[William J. Leggett]

Because they're both gonna be good! It's one game that could have meaning. No need to get rid of it, Kansas isn't looking to schedule rutgers..it sucks this year because Rutgers lost but in a few years when both are good?? It'll be great..get a few cupcakes out but keep this one

You think SHU is really going to be good again?

We need to think of parameters for GOOD.

Like I don’t think they will win a Big East championship in the next 10 years and think they will stay pretty much at the current level they are. Willard left for a reason… They are NOT going to get a better coach.

Look at what happened to St. John’s… Georgetown… Villanova now..

Even Syracuse (let’s get them in this thread now) is about to drop off..

 

[RUBOB72]

Did I mention that word? A word which has been around for probably hundreds of years . A word which is far less hurtful than what many actually believe. This word has been given some status and especially in this country when the reality is it very seldom is ever used in common speech . It’s slang and people fawning their distaste over it is literally the problem. 99 % of decent people never use the term. As a Haaaarvarrrd he / she/ they or them you certainly understand that fact. We all have too many other pressing issues which need to be corrected and frankly quite more harmful or haven’t you looked around lately?

 

[The RUT]

This may be true.

But the equally-true fact is that no one thinks of Rutgers when they think of the B10, and they never will.

To most B10 fans - and nationally - RU is just a joke.

Heck, many college sports fans don’t even realize Rutgers is in the league.

Sorry, that’s just the way it is.

This is a dumb take. RU basketball has actually very comfortably fit into the conference.

School wide perception will change if the football team starts winning.

 

[burtmanjack]

When did the B1G start really taking basketball seriously and investing at the levels they are now?

Northwestern that NEVER made the tournament is a 7 seed… Rutgers made the tournament for the first time and a few in a row since we started investing. You’ll see…

Seriously? Ever heard of Bobby Knight? Or Magic Johnson?

 

[William J. Leggett]

Nothing I’ve said is untrue.

I guess that’s why you resort to name calling.

The bottom line IMO is that RU is probably good enough to have qualified but they just refuse to schedule an OOC that is appropriate or helpful for a P5 school. So that leaves them little margin for error, and they spit the bit this year too many times against teams they should have beaten.

IMO from an RU perspective removing SHU only exacerbates this problem, it doesn’t solve it.

RU should keep SHU and add better schools, not replace SHU and keep the cupcakes that SP likes to eat in order to make the W-L look good.

But the committee wasn’t fooled. And won’t be until SP schedules like a man.

I want the whole OCC replaced…

 

[burtmanjack]

This is a dumb take. RU basketball has actually very comfortably fit into the conference.

School wide perception will change if the football team starts winning.

Talk about a BIG if . . .

Nothing the basketball team does will change the league wide and nationwide perception of RU athletics until the football team consistently shows it belongs on the same field as the rest of the league.

 

[burtmanjack]

I want the whole OCC replaced…

So why no thread about Temple?

 

[bethlehemfan]

Nothing I’ve said is untrue.

I guess that’s why you resort to name calling.

The bottom line IMO is that RU is probably good enough to have qualified but they just refuse to schedule an OOC that is appropriate or helpful for a P5 school. So that leaves them little margin for error, and they spit the bit this year too many times against teams they should have beaten.

IMO from an RU perspective removing SHU only exacerbates this problem, it doesn’t solve it.

RU should keep SHU and add better schools, not replace SHU and keep the cupcakes that SP likes to eat in order to make the W-L look good.

But the committee wasn’t fooled. And won’t be until SP schedules like a man.

Again. Shu is irrelevant. Scheduling is not a problem as it pertains to a wholly replaceable shu. You take a weak minded passive aggressive slant to the argument multiple Ivy League references notwithstanding you don’t seem to be very smart. Not surprising considering what these schools are producing these days

 

[William J. Leggett]

Seriously? Ever heard of Bobby Knight? Or Magic Johnson?

Yea of course… But during those time the money differences weren’t as staggering and NIL opportunities.

It is different now and the B1G has even more advantages than they ever did before. The Big East caught up in the 70’s and 80’s things leveled in the 90’s and early 2000’s and now the B1G is pulling away.

 

[The RUT]

Talk about a BIG if . . .

Nothing the basketball team does will change the league wide and nationwide perception of RU athletics until the football team consistently shows it belongs on the same field as the rest of the league.

Well earlier you said it would never happen. Now you just agreed that it would happen if football wins.

 

[William J. Leggett]

So why no thread about Temple?

I didn’t start this one… But at least they are in PA and allow us to recruit Philadelphia to an extent. They offer slightly more upside than SHU but not much.

I honestly would rather have Pittsburgh on the schedule for MBB. ACC team… Gets us into recruitng territory that we don’t overlap with.

I feel the same way about playing Syracuse, UCONN or even BC in football. They offer us nothing now…

 

[burtmanjack]

Well earlier you said it would never happen. Now you just agreed that it would happen if football wins.

You are assuming I think that WILL happen.

I truly believe it won’t.

Rutgers will never be able to recruit like OSU or Michigan - or the top half of the league for that matter. Especially in an NIL world. They just can’t compete.

Maybe someday they become a football Indiana.

That’s not talking trash or trolling. It’s really how I see it.

Bottom line is that the new era of college sports sucks.

 

[burtmanjack]

I didn’t start this one… But at least they are in PA and allow us to recruit Philadelphia to an extent. They offer slightly more upside than SHU but not much.

I honestly would rather have Pittsburgh on the schedule for MBB. ACC team… Gets us into recruitng territory that we don’t overlap with.

I don’t really follow, and I think that is a specious distinction TBH

You already play PSU twice a year. And they are bigger in Philly and all of PA than Temple.

 

[burtmanjack]

Yea of course… But during those time the money differences weren’t as staggering and NIL opportunities.

It is different now and the B1G has even more advantages than they ever did before. The Big East caught up in the 70’s and 80’s things leveled in the 90’s and early 2000’s and now the B1G is pulling away.

True, but the distinctions WITHIN the B10 are going to be even greater than the differences as compared to other leagues.

RU - fair or not - will simply not be playing in the same sandbox as their league brethren.

 

[Colbert17!]

Maybe someday they become a football Indiana.

As a Harvard grad you are aware that we beat Indiana the last two years with the weak teams we've had? Agree that I don't think we'll ever be tOSU or UM in football but we're beyond Indiana now. Right now hoping to be in that Michigan St, Wisconsin, Purdue, Iowa world.

 

[William J. Leggett]

I don’t really follow, and I think that is a specious distinction TBH

You already play PSU twice a year. And they are bigger in Philly and all of PA than Temple.

Honestly… I completely forgot about PSU… But Pittsburgh is a big city and is a good recruiting territory for Rutgers to mine and also in the B1G footprint, which is a selling point for recruiting.

We need to play teams and expand our recruiting nationally. Get matchups in big cities… We have two commits from Georgia… One from Colorado… We are battling Duke for the best NJ has to offer… No other local team is being considered.. Why? Because frankly it’s not the same level.

Pittsburgh
Cincinnati
Los Angeles (USC and UCLA take care of that)
Atlanta
Miami
Boston (maybe BC has something to offer)
Philadelphia
Chicago (IL and NW do this)
Dallas
Houston

 

[HPNJRUfan]

Dump SHU, bring back Princeton.

 

[BigRnj]

This may be true.

But the equally-true fact is that no one thinks of Rutgers when they think of the B10, and they never will.

To most B10 fans - and nationally - RU is just a joke.

Heck, many college sports fans don’t even realize Rutgers is in the league.

Sorry, that’s just the way it is.

Sounds like it’s you that think we’re a joke and you’re just projecting. Open your eyes, your state university, with over 500k living alumni, impacting every aspect of life in our state and beyond, is no joke.

While accounting for recent missteps in football, which by the way is improving and will continue to improve, every aspect of your state university, including its athletic department are on the rise… and if you’re open minded that’s a good thing for NJ. We are just reaching the level playing field of equal revenue share (at a level that is tens of millions more $ PER YEAR EVERY YEAR than teams in nearly every other conference). RU teams, athletes, coaches, support staff, donations, facilities, public support, and media coverage are all improving rapidly.

So if this is a joke I don’t understand humor. What I suspect is that our Big10 partners really don’t think we’re a joke in fact they should see us as a rising opponent (just a small example, given the last few years of hoops results against blue bloods like Indiana and Purdue I don’t think coach Woodson or coach Painter are laughing at us). I could care less about delusional fans spouting opinions on message boards, they don’t represent logic. No I think the joke narrative just reflects the envy of haters like you.

Sorry, that’s just the way it is.

 

[brookdale-soda]

It's ridiculous to even consider killing this game. Neither RU nor SHU has had a local rival and just as the rivalry has begun to get heated, we're looking to snuff it out? Nothing could be better for NJ/NYC basketball if SHU, Rutgers, and even St Johns makes a comeback. This isn't football. There is plenty of basketball talent in this region to go around if these 3 programs get humming, recruiting concerns are a non issue.

Rutgers is in a solid league and can hold their own in many recruiting battles here.

As for OOC schedule, SHU is an occasional tournament team and had a bad year. AND we lost to them. It was Rutgers fault! This whole discussion is nonsense. I would like to see SHU open Prudential center to fans though. I don't know what the point is of SHU playing there if they're afraid to sell tix,even to opposing fans. They had no problem allowing Villlanoa fans to rock the place.

 

[Rokodesh]

keep the rivalry. Upgrade the schedule elsewhere.

 

[burtmanjack]

As a Harvard grad you are aware that we beat Indiana the last two years with the weak teams we've had? Agree that I don't think we'll ever be tOSU or UM in football but we're beyond Indiana now. Right now hoping to be in that Michigan St, Wisconsin, Purdue, Iowa world.

I meant over time, not over any brief multi-year period.

Hell, Northwestern made the Rose Bowl one year.

I think RU is much more likely to settle out over time in the IN echelon on average.

Maybe I will be proven wrong, but that’s how I see it.

 

[RutgersClassof2004]

Makes complete sense. Outside of fan interest what is the benefit in playing the game?

Use that space to schedule another power 5 team if the committee will not look at the game with context.

Some cannot let go of the so-called Jersey rivalry

 

[burtmanjack]

Sounds like it’s you that think we’re a joke and you’re just projecting. Open your eyes, your state university, with over 500k living alumni, impacting every aspect of life in our state and beyond, is no joke.

While accounting for recent missteps in football, which by the way is improving and will continue to improve, every aspect of your state university, including its athletic department are on the rise… and if you’re open minded that’s a good thing for NJ. We are just reaching the level playing field of equal revenue share (at a level that is tens of millions more $ PER YEAR EVERY YEAR than teams in nearly every other conference). RU teams, athletes, coaches, support staff, donations, facilities, public support, and media coverage are all improving rapidly.

So if this is a joke I don’t understand humor. What I suspect is that our Big10 partners really don’t think we’re a joke in fact they should see us as a rising opponent (just a small example, given the last few years of hoops results against blue bloods like Indiana and Purdue I don’t think coach Woodson or coach Painter are laughing at us). I could care less about delusional fans spouting opinions on message boards, they don’t represent logic. No I think the joke narrative just reflects the envy of haters like you.

Sorry, that’s just the way it is.

Not projecting. Looking at the cold, hard reality that RU will never be able to match the NIL budgets of the B10 upper echelon, and also will never be the biggest game in town (NY/NJ). Columbus, Ann Arbor and on down THE hometown team is the college program. Where is that not true? Chicago. See how that’s worked out for NW.

Money and attention - the new drivers of recruiting. I don’t see RU competing there at all.

And that’s not a knock.

 

[burtmanjack]

Dump SHU, bring back Princeton.

Would be even worse to lose to them.

 

[The RUT]

You are assuming I think that WILL happen.

I truly believe it won’t.

Rutgers will never be able to recruit like OSU or Michigan - or the top half of the league for that matter. Especially in an NIL world. They just can’t compete.

Maybe someday they become a football Indiana.

That’s not talking trash or trolling. It’s really how I see it.

Bottom line is that the new era of college sports sucks.

They were top half/middle of the league in 2014.

You saying it will never happpen and then saying it will only happen if we are good at football is the dumbest thing I’ve read on this board. Which is it? Will never happen or could potentially happen, but not likely?

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Seton Hall games is fine. I don’t want to play a bad SJU team too though. We should back out of that one in my opinion. Has the makings of Q3 all over it and very losable for us on a given day.

 

[Salvi's Headband]

No because shu is irrelevant to rutgers. Very simple

What a ridiculous post.

 

[Plum Street]

Yes but even that take away most of the juice from the game. A move like this would keep sending the momentum down.

Once again, I wish this wasn’t the case but I don’t see benefits in playing it

I agree . But the question is cancel it due to these stupid metrics . I don’t want to see it cancelled but to get around the dumb metrics play it at MSG or in AC

 

[bethlehemfan]

What a ridiculous post.

How so?

 

[fatsam98]

I think in general we need to get rid of games against teams like Seton Hall... meaning, potential Q3 games.

But this is the one where I'd make an exception because it means a lot to both fanbases...

But no more Temple. No more Wake. Replace those with neutral site one-offs against elite teams, or a holiday tournament.

 

[walshtrips]

I said it years ago… Just like PSU wouldn’t play PITT and a bunch of other programs trading home/home.

There is NO benefit playing the game. We are in the better conference perception wise, have way more resources/money/better facilities.

We have the recruting edge.

We win the game “we were supposed to” we lose it and it’s an upset or bad loss and gives them a narrative to recruit with. Willard left for a reason…

The question still hasn’t been answered….

What is the UPSIDE (for Rutgers) of playing the game against SHU? Beating them helps us how?? What does beating them give us that we don’t already have over them now?

They on the otherhand have everything to gain….

I love the rivalry and fan interest…. Program benefit?? Don’t see it..

IF SHU and their fans want the game so bad….. 3 RAC for 1 MSG.

"PERCEPTION" is the key word in this comment. The algorithms for NET rankings have a Big Ten bias which make it easier for Big Ten teams to achieve higher NET rankings. This results in Big Ten teams having a high number of NCAA Tourney entries. Year in and year out, the Big Ten falls flat in the NCAA Tourney. The greatest example: the Big Ten's best team losing to the mighty Peacocks of Saint Peter's, in the Sweet Sixteen last season.

The last Big Ten team to win a NCAA basketball championship was Michigan State in 2000, that's 23 years ago. The Big East has won 7 NCAA championships in that time frame.

Perception IS NOT reality. It seems like the NCAA has finally woken up.

For WJ Leggett and Bethlehemfam who seem to think name calling advances their argument, an RU win against SHU in most seasons is a Quad 1 win. This is the first season in a long time that SHU finished outside the NET 50. Consider that SHU played an entire season without a center and only 8 eligible scholarship players. How would RU have faired without Cliff this year??? You'll have your answer next season when CO is on a different team.

 

[MADHAT1]

Nahhh… Let’s schedule SDSU, Nevada, NCSTATE, Boise State, Kansas State, TCU, Texas, Memphis, Virginia, WVU… I could name a shitload of teams that would be more interesting and also allow us to expand our national recruiting.

Again… What does playing and beating them do for Rutgers?? What does Rutgers get? Bragging rights we already own??? What is the benefit?

bragging rights well no tourney for the hall and RU give Princeton bragging rights
Also Fairly Dickinson can brag about being in the tourney Rutgers wasn't good enough for.

In state rivaleris should be held special and promoted, not run away from because losing to an in state program is being used for the reason RU didn't make the dance.

 

[MADHAT1]

Retard is no longer acceptable in polite company. Totally offensive. I don’t make the rules. But I do agree.

when on a message board like this one and the ones you probably frequent, insults are part of the game and just need to be ignored.
Many times a petty insult is thrown out because the facts are not there to dispute what was said.

This is not a place to expect polite company, even if the vast majority are very polite when you talk to them in person.
When you come as a visitor and disagree with a regular you can expect

 

[William J. Leggett]

bragging rights well no tourney for the hall and RU give Princeton bragging rights
Also Fairly Dickinson can brag about being in the tourney Rutgers wasn't good enough for.

In state rivaleris should be held special and promoted, not run away from because losing to an in state program is being used for the reason RU didn't make the dance.

I’m not talking about them causing us to miss the dance… Answer the question..

Currently.. What does beating them do for us??? How does it help? Unless they make significant strides the next few years, beating them will do nothing to help our SOS, recruiting narrative or provide any real tangible/noteworthy thing frankly.

The win doesn’t move the needle.. Same as Temple… Doesn’t HELP our national perception or give us any real program defining benefit.

I got news for you… SHU is toast.. Georgatown can’t get things figured out, SJU hasn’t, Villanova is dropping off… Why? The Big East is not the Big East of the past… It’s not..

Do people really believe SHU is going to turn it around and become a national contender again where beating them is going to turn heads?

They have a higher chance of going the other way..

 

[ScarletDave]

There is a cosmic shift going on in college sports and guess what. The Big Ten and the Big East are in different stratospheres and will continue to separate. Villanova, Georgetown St John’s aren’t winning national championships anytime soon. There will be a team or 2 on the national stage each year like the WCC (Gonzaga and St Mary’s, or Gonzaga and San Fran) but gone are the days where small tiny private schools with basketball only can reign. See Alabama this year.
No benefit to playing SHU in bball, like playing Uconn in football. Let them whither away

 

[William J. Leggett]

"PERCEPTION" is the key word in this comment. The algorithms for NET rankings have a Big Ten bias which make it easier for Big Ten teams to achieve higher NET rankings. This results in Big Ten teams having a high number of NCAA Tourney entries. Year in and year out, the Big Ten falls flat in the NCAA Tourney. The greatest example: the Big Ten's best team losing to the mighty Peacocks of Saint Peter's, in the Sweet Sixteen last season.

The last Big Ten team to win a NCAA basketball championship was Michigan State in 2000, that's 23 years ago. The Big East has won 7 NCAA championships in that time frame.

Perception IS NOT reality. It seems like the NCAA has finally woken up.

For WJ Leggett and Bethlehemfam who seem to think name calling advances their argument, an RU win against SHU in most seasons is a Quad 1 win. This is the first season in a long time that SHU finished outside the NET 50. Consider that SHU played an entire season without a center and only 8 eligible scholarship players. How would RU have faired without Cliff this year??? You'll have your answer next season when CO is on a different team.

Listen… I only fired back name calling when it was thrown at me.. Regardless of what you a SHU fan thinks won’t change the reality. Playing the game offers Rutgers no advantage in any way. It has run it course and doesn’t provide ONE tangible benefit for a B1G program in Rutgers.

Rutgers doesn’t need to play the game for recruiting… We don’t need it for the money… We don’t need it for bragging…

We literally have a dozen other conference games against bigger and better name brand opponents now that offer much more on a yearly basis. I’m sorry OSU, Purdue, MSU, Indiana, Illinois, Maryland and every other team in the B1G is a BIGGER game that offers significantly more.

The game has no importance… It just doesn’t.. No matter the history or how much you guys want to believe its still the 80’s. Like I said before, UNLESS SHU starts recruiting significantly better it won’t be relevant.

Rutgers has the #37 recruting class for the 2023 year and currently the #5 class for the 2024 year and that is not because of some game we have been playing since the 80’s that has no national significance.

The game serves only ONE purpose now… An opportunity for SHU validate/legitimize themselves and potentially nullify the built in and established advantages we have over them by being in the B1G now.

This isn’t rocket science… This isn’t some new concept I’ve conjured up… It’s happening all over the country and has been… Why won’t BC allow UCONN into the ACC? Why won’t (most years) BC play UCONN in football? Why did Joe Pa stop playing Pitt? WVU avoid schedule games with Marshall… I can keep going…

If we were still in the Big East together…. I would have a totally different opinion and I would be arguing until I was SHU blue to play them ten times a year.

 

[RUDiddy777]

Obviously lots of SHU trolls on this thread. I think it's pretty apparent that I'm not one of them. I think we should still have SHU on our schedule.

Think they’ll be a better OOC game once Shaheen gets things going.

 

[William J. Leggett]

Think they’ll be a better OOC game once Shaheen gets things going.

One can only hope… Carino said it best… Throw out the schedules during any given year because the game is going to be a rock fight.

If Shaheen doesn’t… Which I don’t think he will, two things will happen. We are going to be in rock fights every year either with wins that don’t move the needle or have bad losses on our resume.