When you only give up 3 runs, in any fashion, you have to come up with runs. Unacceptable. Ross was great, again. Holder gave up nothing. The bats have to step up. They are our biggest problem so far in SEC play.
Engie will disagree but this loss is on the offense.
- Thread starter Will James
- Start date
Notable batting averages in SEC play
This is before today's game.
Renfroe .517
Pirtle .321
Frazier .289
Detz .269
Bradford .258 (Keep in mind that Bradford has yet to have an extra base hit in SEC play)
Frost .250
Porter .214
Ammo .214
Slauter .214
Rea .200
Henderson .143
Norris .083.
As you can see, we have some serious problems at the plate. Norris should never play, ever. I have become a huge Sam Frost fan.
This is before today's game.
Renfroe .517
Pirtle .321
Frazier .289
Detz .269
Bradford .258 (Keep in mind that Bradford has yet to have an extra base hit in SEC play)
Frost .250
Porter .214
Ammo .214
Slauter .214
Rea .200
Henderson .143
Norris .083.
As you can see, we have some serious problems at the plate. Norris should never play, ever. I have become a huge Sam Frost fan.
Great starter -- All-American closer -- best bullpen in the nation(yes, better than ours -- even how both were projected).
You can NOT GIVE THEM 3 runs to start the game. How many of those runs were earned with actual hitting? None. They were given away with walks. That game was given away by Bracewell.
Should our hitters share the blame? Sure. But you CAN NOT give up a 3 spot in the first without getting an out to a team whose staff averages giving up LESS than that/9ip on the SEASON. Especially against a great pitching team that collectively can't 17ing hit.
You can NOT GIVE THEM 3 runs to start the game. How many of those runs were earned with actual hitting? None. They were given away with walks. That game was given away by Bracewell.
Should our hitters share the blame? Sure. But you CAN NOT give up a 3 spot in the first without getting an out to a team whose staff averages giving up LESS than that/9ip on the SEASON. Especially against a great pitching team that collectively can't 17ing hit.
If we had given up 3 more, yeah those 3 in the first walked in would have been the issue. But when you look at just overall game pitching, we did enough to win. You can't assume shutouts. Offense has to put the runs up. When the other team scores 3 or less and we lose, I'm looking at the offense.
The offense didnt walk in two batters and give up an "RBI DP" in the first. Same story last week at Kentucky. Two of our 6 losses are a direct result of walks.
I've always gone by the adage of asking your pitchers for a chance to win. If your guys give up only 3, they are giving you that chance. We can't capitalize.
Jesus christ not this stupid *** argument again.
Walking in 3 runs in what should have been a shutout = BEATING YOURSELF.
Getting beat by a dominant pitching staff = GETTING BEAT.
Big 17'ing difference. But we know -- you never played the game and don't understand the difference. You've made it REDUNDANTLY clear.
You can't assume shutouts? You also can't ASSUME you get 3+ runs and spot that to a pitching staff and team that gives up 2.4 runs/game ON THE SEASON.
Agree. I gotta side with Will James on this one....
Yes, the pitching failed us in the 1st. But it is a 9 inning game (they only batted 8 innings), and pitching dominated the other 7 innings they were out there. Hitting sucked for 9 innings, outside of 1 swing by Rea. When you only give up 3 runs on a Sunday in the SEC....you better win the 17ing game.
I'm sorry... But we walked in 2 runs today without even a swing. Same exact story last week. You cannot beat yourself. That's the more glaring issue to me. We stop doing that, we win more games, whether we score 1 run or 15 runs.
I agree that pitching let us down today in giving up the runs....but if you're going to key on that you can't ignore the 7 shutout innings they followed it up with.
Meanwhile, take 1 swing away from Rea and we don't score a 17ing run OR even touch 3rd base today! How is that not a hitting issue for today?
Not to mention Sunday is when scores are typically higher because you're facing a team's 3rd starter. We had a makeshift Sunday starter, spotted them 3 runs, and STILL only gave up 3 runs for the entire game. You have to be able to score enough runs to win in that scenario.
How many swings did it take for Arkansas to put up 3 runs on us? One... Into a DP.
Offensive production is not the glaring issue to me. In 3 games, we both scored 9 runs. We out scored UK and LSU in both weekends. We have GOT to stop beating ourselves and giving away runs.
I love how everyone loves to say ****ing is giving away outs, but no one seems to be as bothered by the fact that we've given up the winning RUNS the last two rubber games without even the opponent having to swing the bat. Hilarious.
I want us to stop beating ourselves. Plain and simple.
We've had "a chance" to win in almost every single loss on the season. That doesn't mean that "we got beat." These pitchers are still consistently BEATING THEMSELVES.
Let's look at the losses:
Central Arky - 9 walks, 6 hbp
Central Arky - 1 walk, 4 hbp
LSU - 6 walks, 1 hbp
LSU - 5 walks, 1 hbp
Kentucky - 3 walks, 1 hbp
Kentucky - 8 walks, 2 hbp
Arky - 8 walks, 1 hbp
Arky - 4 walks
In 8 losses, that's 44 walks and 16 hbp -- so 60 free passes. In those 8 losses, we've given up a total of 59 hits -- only 13 for extra bases.
Runs as a results in the losses:
Central Ark - Lost 7-5 -- 4 runs the result of Walks/HBP's, 1 run the result of Errors
Central Ark - Lost 7-3 -- 3 runs the result of HBP's, 2 run result of Errors
LSU - Lost 6-4 -- 1 run the result of Walk, 1 run result of Error
LSU - Lost 7-3 -- 3 runs result of Walks, 1 run result of Error
Kentucky - Lost 3-2 -- No Runs result of Walks or Errors
Kentucky - Lost 4-3 -- All 4 Runs result of Walks -- A runner from 2b potentially scores on Cousino's walk-off single in the 9th
Arky - Lost 5-4 -- 4 Runs result of Walks
Arky - Lost 3-1 -- All 3 Runs result of Walks(possibly only 2 of the 3)
So, in the losses, we've given up 5 runs because of errors(should be more if our scorekeeper had half a brain), 22 runs because of walks and hbp's, and a GRAND TOTAL of 15 runs because of actual hitting(should be less for same reason).
Best staff in the country -- if they simply let the other team make contact and stop beating ourselves with free passes.
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Fant's ERA coming in was 1.19 -- Obviously, it was a gimme start with a weak guy in the Sunday slot**
100% disagree here. Our woes are all up on our starting pitching. And the decisions made by the staff, which I'm not as pissed about anymore, considering the condition of our starting pitching yet again.
Arky's guys had some good stuff today. Without the crap to start the game, we're probably in a 1-1 game in the 9th.
Arky's guys had some good stuff today. Without the crap to start the game, we're probably in a 1-1 game in the 9th.
I haven't seen anybody that isn't Extremely bothered by the walks. Who are these people?
I'm just saying that Today, and today only, when we are starting a guy who hasn't started in a while, he doesn't get a single out, yet you still hold the team scoreless after that first inning....you have got to be able to score 3 runs against a Sunday starter, or at least have more than 1 guy touch 3rd.
Does that mean the walks are forgiven? Hell no. But for our pitchers to rebound and shut them out after that inning...we have to have our hitters step up and get those runs back.
Nobody is forgiving the runs in the 1st...we're just acknowledging what happened the other 8 innings. Meanwhile the offense laid a turd for the Entire 9
Every game is an entity in and of itself. Arkansas didn't do **** with the bat today either except for the crap we gave them.
Offense had very little to do with today's loss. Sure, we could have had better hitting, but when runs matter, especially in games like today, you CANNOT give them away. That's what we did, and that's why we lost.
Your sarcasm on this is unnecessary....I understand his ERA. So does that mean we are just supposed to expect to hold them to 0 because their guy only averages giving up 1? That's pretty far fetched. You aren't going to win many 1-0 games on a Sunday in the SEC. Say what you want to, because I'm agreeing that the 1st inning hurt us....but you can't sit there and say that our hitting wasn't the problem today.
Our staff shut them down after the 1st. 1 bad inning for pitching < 9 bad innings for our bats, in my opinion. And I'm talking today only.
I like your posts 99% of the time, and I agree that pitching hurt us in the 1st inning....but to say "offense had very little to do with today's loss" may be one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this board. We scored 1 run! 1.
Exactly.
Arky had 1 runner reach SECOND after the first inning -- They didn't get another guy to third either...
I'm just simply saying that regardless of the 1 run, if we don't walk in 2 and allow them to score a third on a bases loaded DP with no outs, we win the game. Even with one run. Sometimes you play shoot outs, sometimes pitchers duels, but in the pitchers duels, you can't beat yourself, and that's what happened. Same with last week, without the first inning, we win the game. Also UCA Game 2. 3 games are wins and not losses simply because of walks.
Thank you Cadaver! 1 damn run against their number 3 starter is
Effing WEAK! Bottom line is this team cannot score runs and does not get timely hits and has little power!
Effing WEAK! Bottom line is this team cannot score runs and does not get timely hits and has little power!
So because their offense sucked it's okay for ours to suck? By the way, part of offense is not swinging at balls in the 17ing dirt. Walking is a part of offense, just like it's part of pitching.
That's textbook getting beat by a better pitcher. When you face dominant pitchers, you can't start out 3 runs down with bats on shoulders. Did our hitters let us down today? Absolutely. "Number 3 starter" talk is weak though. I've already shown that the dude is a stud.
And everyone continues to be on this "our hitting sucks" bandwagon. Ill say it aGAIN.. We WALKED IN... WALKED... As in they just had to stand there... 2 runs. They then hit into a DP that scored a run. I could have gone out there and done that. We don't walk so many in the first, we win the game. SAME EXACT SCENARIO LAST WEEKEND... And everyone is blaming our hitting??? That's hilarious.
I said plain as day our hitting struggled today, but they scored nine runs this weekend, we scored nine. We scored 7 runs as a result of hitting this weekend, they scored at most 4 runs all weekend as a direct result of hitting. Tell me whose offense struggled more based on that?
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So our offense was good enough to beat Stanek, their Ace....but we're supposed to only expect a max of 1.19 runs against their #3 guy?
Oh and what about the offense after Fant came out in what, the sixth? Where was the offense then? Was that a 0.00 ERA guy that we should never expect to score on because he's given up 0.00 so far?
Give me a break. They are both to blame...but giving the offense a pass for scoring 1 run is crazy talk.
Nobody is saying the walks didn't hurt us. You and Engie are saying pitching was MORE to blame, so that means you are ignoring the 8 innings of shutout. I'm saying we didn't even have 1 good inning with the bats. So how can you say the pitching let us down MORE? The same? I will agree with. But MORE? No way.
I thought i was pretty clear. Year 5 of Cohen and we are not very good, we are going on a 5 year habit now of running into outs.after 4 plus years of this ****, i don't think Cohen is going to do much better considering we are still making the same mistakes.
Exactly they note the one bad inning from the pitching as the fault yet ignore the NINE bad innings at the plate. Same as the last game against Kentucky.
Pitching- 1 bad inning, 7 perfect
hitting- One good inning, 8 pitiful
Yet it's the pitching. Here's the thing, in college baseball the other team will get runs. How in the 17 they get them has NO IMPACT on our teams ability to score. It doesn't matter if we walked in 3, they hit a 3 run jack, or we loaded the bases and balked 3 17ing times in a row! If, as a team, we hold them to 3 runs, we are supposed to win the game. It cannot get any simpler.
I disagree. I think we are Very good....we're just hurting ourselves right now. All the doom and gloom is unwarranted. Frustration is completely understandable, but "we aren't very good" is crazy talk in my opinion.
I find it hilarious you are such a huge advocate of not giving away outs by ****ing, yet you refuse to blame pitching for walking in the 3 RUNS THAT LOST US THE DAMN GAME. Very efficient there, Socrates.
I've said it literally 10 times now in the two threads on this argument...
WHERE did I "give the offense a pass?" That's right -- I didn't. In fact, I've said they deserve their share of the blame CONSTANTLY and CONSISTENTLY. At least twice already in this very thread. But it conveniently keeps getting ignored to push the agenda that the loss is ON THEM and not on starting pitching that gives up MULTIPLE runs with bats on shoulders...
The "offense" wasn't good enough to do **** with Stanek. Graveman's PITCHING beat Stanek -- and more precisely, Stanek's control along with one bad error beat himself. They EARNED a run in the first inning. If we give them 3 more on walks, do we beat them yesterday? Not. Likely.
The only clarity was the shortsighted ignorance on which you've now gone in depth.
ISR/RPI -- after the loss today -- 2nd best it's been on THIS weekend in 17 years. FIRE COHENZ!!1!1!
You can't harp on the 1st inning and ignore the other 8 where the pitching was dominant...and just say "pitching cost us the game". Pitching got us behind, but pitching kept us in it. Meanwhile, offense never even showed up.
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Well i equate being good with winning. We are not winning. If you are hurting yourself then i don't think you are very good. Talented, maybe. Good=winning though, and we are simply not winning right now.