EVs are bad … or good

[PhredPhantom]

If you have mostly a bad opinion of EVs and/or hybrids, have you operated one daily for 3 months or longer or are you just going on your gut feeling?

What is your opinion based on?

Note:
Multiple choices are allowed (in case you fit into more than one category).
Pay close attention to “Never” and “good”.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

I said they are both good. Never driven an EV but I would say they both have their place. It’s not right for everyone.

I think a hybrid is more practical than a straight EV.

 

[PhredPhantom]

Full disclosure: I’ve owned and operated Tesla Model S cars for about five years. Still own two of them. Love them. (2017 P100D & 2023 Plaid) They’re not the best for everybody because everybody’s driving is different but they are the best for me. And they’re fast. Really fast. FSD is pretty awesome and great for me by myself on long trips to visit grandchildren.

 

[Guy From Gulfport]

I'm a fan of all forms of propulsion and have owned everything but a HD truck (hybrids included).

Bought my first Tesla 7 years ago. We now own two and they are almost perfect for us. As things are today, I don't see us owning anything other than BEVs. I'm of the opinion that BEVs are here to stay, but aren't yet close to ideal for some applications (like RVs and HD Trucks.) That's where Serial Hybrids (i.e. EVs with gas range extenders) help bridge the gap for the time being. But the complexity of Hybrids highlight one of the reasons I went from Gas/Diesel to EV. But time could show that those challenges are overcome with technological increases.

With that being said, I'm not a fan of trying to put any other form of transport into extinction. Consumer choice is the way, even if some infrastructure has to be propped up until some sort of parity of availability is achieved.

 

[msstatelp1]

Currently have a 2024 Honda Accord Hybrid. Average 45 MPG without trying. Comfortable ride and plenty of go power for me. My one complaint is highway noise. SOB is loud and I’m half deaf.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Currently have a 2024 Honda Accord Hybrid. Average 45 MPG without trying. Comfortable ride and plenty of go power for me. My one complaint is highway noise. SOB is loud and I’m half deaf.

2023 Toyota Corolla Hybrid, same here. But it's pushing 60 mpg overall, I was amazed.

On the loud part, I do wonder if I'm just comparing it against the idea that it's so quiet when the gas engine is off. Makes it seem louder than it is.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

I don’t understand being “against” any viable option for transportation. The needs of a short-tripper in an urban area are vastly different than farmers, law enforcement, or rural dwellers.

I AM against a government mandate that funnels money to an industry under the false pretenses that EVs are green, affordable, and everyone needs it while the infrastructure simply cannot support that lie, and diesel engines are either choked out or eliminated as an option.

I’m for EVs. The SLATE truck startup looks interesting, but I’m afraid something will either derail it or it will come in at $35k.

 

[Podgy]

2023 Toyota Corolla Hybrid, same here. But it's pushing 60 mpg overall, I was amazed.

On the loud part, I do wonder if I'm just comparing it against the idea that it's so quiet when the gas engine is off. Makes it seem louder than it is.

China is making some good, inexpensive EVs. Once we get infrastructure improvements, those will be useful. For now hybrids are the way to go. Smooth, quiet comfort with good mileage and enough power.

 

[Pars]

Wife’s got the Highlander Hybrid about $35 will get her 500 miles.

 

[skip dog]

my choice is not available up top.....

Have operated a EV, and think they really are a dynamic option that we (including our power grid) are not ready for (see comments w/in the past 2 years from toyota CEO). I think the idea is great and tech is advancing, and Tesla owns the tech w/ this, and I respect their recent agreement w/ Ford on charging......

Hybrids are the first step of this future (in my humble, commoner opinion).

and to go one step further, the United States need to shore of our power grid / power infrastructure.....and I'll stop there b/c I don't want to be political.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

If you have mostly a bad opinion of EVs and/or hybrids, have you operated one daily for 3 months or longer or are you just going on your gut feeling?

What is your opinion based on?

Note:
Multiple choices are allowed (in case you fit into more than one category).
Pay close attention to “Never” and “good”.

Definition of “good” or “bad” is key. I interpreted it as good/bad for me. I don’t think either is inherently one or the other. I’ll be looking hard at a hybrid version of whatever I buy next. EV isn’t a fit.

 

[o_Hot Rock]

EVs may end up being the best option for everyone but not yet. They are right now for a segment of the population for commuters and those willing to put up with the differing issues to get the benefits. ICE vehicles have issues too, we just know them and don't worry about those as we understand them. Won't crank... battery dead? Jump it off. Fuel pump out or water pump or hose/radiator leaking.. you know those right?

The biggest issues for an EV are the range and charging. Most owners will charge at home as needed and never or rarely worry about finding a charger in some remote location. There are a lot more charging places than most people realize.

Hybrids, I don't prefer them because you have duel systems = duel problems and why pay for both systems and problems for worse mileage than an EV. But one says I get 45-60 mpg in my Hybrid. That sucks to be honest. I get about 80-125 mpg (cost wise) in my EV depending on driving conditions. Yes, that varies that much due to cold but even at 10 degrees it got 80 mpg. Hybrid's best day ain't close to that. A Hybrid is better than an ICE for mileage and gives you peace of mind for range. I do get it's appeal. but EV charging isn't the problem for me that people think it would be for them. o.

Once you drive one daily, understand the charging, get used to the quickness of response, lack of maintenance and cost of driving, I don't think many people would ever go back to an ICE after owning one unless they just couldn't get around the charging. These things are fun as heck to drive.

 

[Yeti]

Had the ford powerboost hybrid truck. Loved it asan engine. Transmission went out twice by 55k. So sold it but 26mpg in the city was awesome. Love a Tesla and will have one next for my wife around town

 

[mstateglfr]

I don’t understand being “against” any viable option for transportation. The needs of a short-tripper in an urban area are vastly different than farmers, law enforcement, or rural dwellers.

I AM against a government mandate that funnels money to an industry under the false pretenses that EVs are green, affordable, and everyone needs it while the infrastructure simply cannot support that lie, and diesel engines are either choked out or eliminated as an option.

I’m for EVs. The SLATE truck startup looks interesting, but I’m afraid something will either derail it or it will come in at $35k.

Hopefully you are consistent and against money being funneled to any industry based on lies or misinformation.

 

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

I'm neither pro or con. Drive whatever you want. I just don't want mandates to go to just one form or the other. Let the free market decide.

My only other comment is for people buying them for no other reason than they're "saving" the environment. You're not saving jack. You're just transferring the pollution from here to another country where the lithium mines are. And even if lithium mining did no harm to the environment, there's still a huge portion of the EV that wouldn't exist if oil was banned. To quote Tommy in Landman - oil is in every damn thing. And even if we went all electric tomorrow the US doesn't have the infrastructure to handle the demand.

 

[OopsICroomedmypants]

I love EV's because it decreases demand for gas and makes the price go down**

 

[Maroon13]

Not sure where my vote sits. So I'll say...

I like to drive an EV. Especially the sport models. I really like the Rivian R1S ....but I would have to have a 220v outlet in my garage to own one. Also, I would not take one on a long trip. It would strictly be a commuter.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Hopefully you are consistent and against money being funneled to any industry based on lies or misinformation.

I would hope you would be the same.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

 

[Ranchdawg]

I am for freedom of choice. I had a Ford Fusion Energi and loved driving it. I was getting 55 MPG with it because my drive to work was 80% electric then it went to hybrid. I only had to visit the gas station once a month which made me very happy. The EV portion of the car was covered by warranty for 8 years. I sold it as I approached the end of the 7th year. I was concerned about replacing the batteries for $8,000 and the potential for EV component failure.

Another concern was the loss of trunk space to batteries. Luggage had to go in the back seat for long trips. If it was a full EV we would have just used a rental car for long trips which is what I assume full EV users do. Long term I believe hydrogen cars will win out.

Fun fact, trains are EVs. The huge diesel engines are merely generators to power the electric motors that power the wheels.

 

[paindonthurt]

Hopefully you are consistent and against money being funneled to any industry based on lies or misinformation.

Hopefully you are too but you aren’t!!

 

[Hail State]

I don’t think they’re “bad” but I definitely think they’re unsustainable. There’s not enough lithium and cobalt in the world to provide what just the US needs. We will exhaust a rare earth mineral resource on a failed idea. Plus all the wasted time and money in implementing charging stations is a total bust. They’re fine if that’s what you prefer but it is not a long term solution.

 

[mstateglfr]

I would hope you would be the same.

Yes sir I am!

 

[golferdog]

Until the charging station infrastructure is manageable, it's better to have a gas or hybrid vehicle for all your needs.

 

[The Peeper]

Never operated any of them. Don't need to because they don't fit my needs which is something to get me 4 miles to my job and back everyday. On the weekend get me 9 miles to the grocery store and others stores in between. And, pretty regularly get me 5 1/2 hours to my kids homes w/out having to stop and let my car worship the power grid for awhile on the way. I'm just one of those that it doesn't make sense for me to spend more money on the purchase and more money upgrading my home infrastructure just to say I love my efficient, fast, quiet, high torque vehicle.

 

[Dawgbite]

Hybrids are my least favorite choice simply because they are so complex. Too many things to break in my opinion. EVs are perfect for 90% of my use but aren’t practical for me for a full time vehicle. The internal combustion engine is still the most practical option for my use and works 100% of the time for me. An EV would work for us as a third vehicle but if I’m buying a third vehicle I’d rather have something fun like a convertible rather than something practical.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

This is like asking if a hammer is good or bad. It's good if you need to hit in a nail. It's bad if you need to cut glass.

also grouping EVs and Hybrids together is not right. They are different tools that have different capabilities.

I have driven an EV as a rental and was impressed with the technology. I was unimpressed with how much I had to think about my usage of it. I had to plan out my entire days around figuring out the miles i was going to drive and where i could charge it and the time it would take. Maybe owning one would be a little different experience.

I have not driven a Hybrid. It seems to be the best answer for lowering fossil fuel usage and eliminating those planning issues.

 

[TimberBeast]

Never operated any of them. Don't need to because they don't fit my needs which is something to get me 4 miles to my job and back everyday. On the weekend get me 9 miles to the grocery store and others stores in between. And, pretty regularly get me 5 1/2 hours to my kids homes w/out having to stop and let my car worship the power grid for awhile on the way. I'm just one of those that it doesn't make sense for me to spend more money on the purchase and more money upgrading my home infrastructure just to say I love my efficient, fast, quiet, high torque vehicle.

Exactly the same for me, and also I'm very skeptical of them being any better for the environment as well.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

I don’t think they’re “bad” but I definitely think they’re unsustainable. There’s not enough lithium and cobalt in the world to provide what just the US needs. We will exhaust a rare earth mineral resource on a failed idea. Plus all the wasted time and money in implementing charging stations is a total bust. They’re fine if that’s what you prefer but it is not a long term solution.

Hydrogen might be the ultimate answer.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

Fun fact, trains are EVs. The huge diesel engines are merely generators to power the electric motors that power the wheels.

That makes them Hybrids

 

[Dawgzilla2]

I don’t think they’re “bad” but I definitely think they’re unsustainable. There’s not enough lithium and cobalt in the world to provide what just the US needs. We will exhaust a rare earth mineral resource on a failed idea. Plus all the wasted time and money in implementing charging stations is a total bust. They’re fine if that’s what you prefer but it is not a long term solution.

There's plenty of lithium in the world, and we are finding new deposits all the time. The trick is mining it fast enough to meet demand. The Chinese are producing sodium ion batteries as an alternative.

The battery technology is rapidly developing, and as soon as Toyota figures out how to mass produce solid state batteries, EVs will be the choice for all but the heavy duty vehicles.

I enjoy driving EVs even though I dont currently own one. I dont really like Teslas, though. Its nothing to with Musk, I just expect a little more luxury at that price point.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

Hopefully you are consistent and against money being funneled to any industry based on lies or misinformation.

No, azzzhole, I love when my tax dollars get spent on lies, political capital, propaganda, fraud, and control.

 

[MSUDAWGFAN]

I own an EV. In about 3.5 years I have put just over 140,000 miles on it. The battery loss is almost imperceptible (maybe a few miles). I drive 70 miles one way to work and have driven in the morning in temperatures as low as 8 degrees and on the way home it was in the teens and I was fine.

It's so quiet. I love it. Best car I've ever owned and I hope to have it until I can no longer drive a car and need an SUV because I can't sit low enough any more.

 

[PhredPhantom]

Even though I own two Teslas, I didn’t necessarily buy them because they are EVs. I bought them mainly because I wanted the self-driving / autopilot feature and for the performance. If they had been ICE vehicles with those same two features I would have still probably bought them as ICE vehicles.

Now, having used them for several years, I really enjoy the convenience (and savings) of “filling them up” at home instead of regular visits to the gas station and the fact that there is virtually “no” maintenance required compared to ICE vehicles. I do still own an ICE Ford F-150 for the occasional job the Teslas are not suited for.

Some have mentioned that they are good as local commuter vehicles but that they don’t think they’re practical for trips. Tesla is a little different. Musk realized that early on and that’s why the Tesla supercharging network is vast, reliable, and plentiful. I live in East-Central Mississippi and regularly make trips to visit family in Virginia, Indiana, Alabama, and Tennessee as well as to the Gulf Coast when I get a hankering for some seafood.

Also, the Self-Driving feature is really very nice for trips like that and navigates in towns as well as on the highway. it takes me all the way to my destination and even parks itself. I don’t touch the steering wheel much. The car keeps up with how much of your overall miles are done on autopilot and mine is at 96%.

 

[mstateglfr]

No, azzzhole, I love when my tax dollars get spent on lies, political capital, propaganda, fraud, and control.

It seems like many view spending for projects/initiatives/industries they dont support as being 'lies, propaganda, etc'.
And spending for projects/initiatives/industries they support as being 'justified and proper'.

Cool that you dont fall into that typical grouping

 

[L4Dawg]

I'd say this depends on your individual situation. An EV would work for me about 90% of the time. I can't afford to have a second car for that 10% so that is a deal breaker for me on them. I would be open to looking at a hybrid the next time I am in the market.

 

[johnson86-1]

I think EVs are awesome to drive. I can't find a reasonably priced one that's big enough for us to actually use. The range issue would be a non-issue for how we drive as long as we had one ICE car. Maybe once a year we might need to rent an ICE because we're both driving long distances at hte same time. Biggest concern outside of the price (althought it's basically part of the cost calculation) is battery replacement and resale value if battery replacement is a reasonable possibility that is prohibitively expensive. The fire concerns are a little concerning and I'd have to look into that more before I put one in my garage. Never been a concern enough to figure out the real risks because the costs make it a non-issue.

I think EVs would be much more popular if they hadn't come with a bunch of grifting BS tax preferences and preaching. I guess they needed to preach to get the environmental fundamentalists to push for the tax preferences, but if they had just been pitched as a fun alternatives if they match your driving pattern, I think people would have eaten them up. That's basically waht happened anyway. Not sure if it's still true, but for a good while most people with EVs were in multicar homes and had either a full sized truck or SUV as one of the other cars.

ETA: I haven't looked at hybrids in a long time, but when i looked, the extra up front costs couldn't be recouped in a reasonable time driving 15k miles a year. I do have a built in bias against hybrids because I feel like you are adding a lot of complexity for possibly not that much benefit. But with how complex car engines are now, maybe doing a hybrind isn't meaningfully more complicated.

 

[NukeDogg]

Never tried any EV or hybrid, but I have nothing against them.

 

[MSUDAWGFAN]

Even though I own two Teslas, I didn’t necessarily buy them because they are EVs. I bought them mainly because I wanted the self-driving / autopilot feature and for the performance. If they had been ICE vehicles with those same two features I would have still probably bought them as ICE vehicles.

Now, having used them for several years, I really enjoy the convenience (and savings) of “filling them up” at home instead of regular visits to the gas station and the fact that there is virtually “no” maintenance required compared to ICE vehicles. I do still own an ICE Ford F-150 for the occasional job the Teslas are not suited for.

Some have mentioned that they are good as local commuter vehicles but that they don’t think they’re practical for trips. Tesla is a little different. Musk realized that early on and that’s why the Tesla supercharging network is vast, reliable, and plentiful. I live in East-Central Mississippi and regularly make trips to visit family in Virginia, Indiana, Alabama, and Tennessee as well as to the Gulf Coast when I get a hankering for some seafood.

Also, the Self-Driving feature is really very nice for trips like that and navigates in towns as well as on the highway. it takes me all the way to my destination and even parks itself. I don’t touch the steering wheel much. The car keeps up with how much of your overall miles are done on autopilot and mine is at 96%.

One feature that I love is that you can program it to when you want to leave and it will condition the cabin so that it will be an appropriate temperature when you leave. When I leave in the morning, the car is on in the garage and it's nice and cool (in summer) and has some heat on in winter.

When I leave work and it's 95 degrees, it's so nice to get in a car that has had the AC blowing really hard for 20 or 30 minutes.

ICE cars can't do that, at least in a garage.

 

[rdnkkicker]

They aren't inherently good or bad. While they aren't currently able to meet my needs, I certainly see the use cases where they'd be absolutely ideal.