Flooding in Texas

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Unfortunately this is not an SRV tribute post...

Shocked the weather gurus haven't discussed it. Death toll apparently up to 82 and will be well over 100 soon, including a bunch of little girls at a Christian summer camp. My wife and her mother both went to that camp as kids.

I've discussed this before, but I experienced flash flooding in the Texas Hill Country about 20 years ago myself. I lived on the San Gabriel River in Georgetown Texas and about 15-20 miles up river in Burnett/Marble Falls a storm classified as a "rain bomb" dropped about 20" from 11 pm to 6 am and that ditch of a river turned into the Mississippi nearly washing me away in my sleep.

I get flash flooding happens fast, but good gravy with the technology we have today our 17ing phones could shoot pepper spray and blow out our eardrums once rainfall totals start exploding if we're near a river that could flood. I mean unlike tornadoes, hurricanes, lightning, etc .. you can walk 100 yards from wherever you are near a river and be perfectly safe as long as you know you're in danger ahead of time.

FyI. These are the apartments I lived in in 07' and the river is right back where it was then... 17 Texas man. That weather is always trying to kill you.



For comparison, here's what it normally looks like...

 

[leeinator]

I was always nervous to have camps that border on rivers. On lakes, not so much. I was caught in a flash flood while camping with some friends when I was a kid. We pitched our tents next to a small creek that rarely ever rose much or threatened to flood. Lo & behold the one night we were there, some major thunderstorms pounded our area. Went I left the tent to go outside and take a leak , I could see water lapping up about 10-20 yds away from our tents when earlier, it was about 50 yds away. Woke everybody up and we got out of there quick! Probably saved our lives as that little creek turned into a raging flash flood. We knew how to swim, but I'm guessing all those girls in Texas did too. It wouldn't have mattered. Just way too much water. Sad situation. Parents need to think of things like that when they send their kids off to camps, etc. With the marvelous technology we have today, it should be easy to see if a general area could be effected greatly by impending storms.

 

[El Perro Grande]

A tragic event, and my heart goes out to all affected.

Local topography needs to be incorporated into these models at a small scale. 2 or 3 inches of rain in An hour in the mtns is a large flood, 6 inches of rain in an hour on the Gulf coast is just a few inches of standing water. The difference of pouring water in a glass vs pouring water on a baking sheet, as I used to tell my Cajun friends when they tried to understand mtn. Floodiing from only a few inches of rain. Another issue, you can be 100 miles from the down burst and still get the flash flood.

 

[onewoof]

100 year flood plains don't account for everything. Tragedy happens. Now we know what we didn't know before.

 

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

This has happened several times before on this River. It just might not have happened this quickly. I can't verify the accuracy but I read the water rose over 20ft in 45 minutes.

I do know warning were issued and upgraded to show the life threatening impact. One of the few times I remember seeing a PDS tag to a flood warning. What is sad are the loons on both sides already making this political. The far left is already blaming Trump and saying it's all his fault, and the far right is blaming weather modification, HAARP, and cloud seeding. Wish people would just let this be what it is...a tragic event that happened in the middle of the night when most people aren't paying attention to the weather or warnings and by the time they realized what was happening it was too late.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

This has happened several times before on this River. It just might not have happened this quickly. I can't verify the accuracy but I read the water rose over 20ft in 45 minutes.

I do know warning were issued and upgraded to show the life threatening impact. One of the few times I remember seeing a PDS tag to a flood warning. What is sad are the loons on both sides already making this political. The far left is already blaming Trump and saying it's all his fault, and the far right is blaming weather modification, HAARP, and cloud seeding. Wish people would just let this be what it is...a tragic event that happened in the middle of the night when most people aren't paying attention to the weather or warnings and by the time they realized what was happening it was too late.

Spot on Hugh.

This was a catastrophic event that I don’t think anything else could have been done. I went back on my RadarScope app and watched the rainfall accumulation and the timing of the warnings issued and they were as timely as you can get. There’s videos of emergency management people watching the river flooding the road and literally having to walk backwards back uphill because the water was rising so fast at their feet. The videos of all those girls at camp made me hug my two a little tighter last night.

 

[Dawg1976]

The girl that got swept away over 12 miles and ended up in a tree is incredible. She said she had to dodge cars and refrigerators along the way. Unfortunately a lot were not as fortunate as her.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Spot on Hugh.

This was a catastrophic event that I don’t think anything else could have been done. I went back on my RadarScope app and watched the rainfall accumulation and the timing of the warnings issued and they were as timely as you can get. There’s videos of emergency management people watching the river flooding the road and literally having to walk backwards back uphill because the water was rising so fast at their feet. The videos of all those girls at camp made me hug my two a little tighter last night.

Maybe it happens now in the south, but I never get any kind of weather alerts on my phone other than from subscribed stuff/apps. But man an amber alert or blue alert will blare through it 2 am so loud I shart my silkies. Wireless emergency alerts.

If they're pinging cell towers for severe storms, tornadoes and flash floods using that same technology, that's what I am talking about could/should be done. I just don't recall ever seeing any myself.

ETA. Checked my settings all WEA's are on. Just never recall seeing anything. I nearly drove into what turned out to be a tornado warned storm near Amarillo a few summers ago and don't recall any warnings, but I turned around knowing it looked like end times.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Maybe it happens now in the south, but I never get any kind of weather alerts on my phone other than from subscribed stuff/apps. But man an amber alert or blue alert will blare through it 2 am so loud I shart my silkies. Wireless emergency alerts.

If they're pinging cell towers for severe storms, tornadoes and flash floods using that same technology, that's what I am talking about could/should be done. I just don't recall ever seeing any myself.

ETA. Checked my settings all WEA's are on. Just never recall seeing anything. I nearly drove into what turned out to be a tornado warned storm near Amarillo a few summers ago and don't recall any warnings, but I turned around knowing it looked like end times.

Every time we’ve had a tornado warning or flash flood warning my iPhone goes nuts from the provider (like amber alerts) along with any apps I use.

 

[johnson86-1]

Every time we’ve had a tornado warning or flash flood warning my iPhone goes nuts from the provider (like amber alerts) along with any apps I use.

We had to turn ours off because it kept going off in the middle of the night for severe thunderstorms and flash flood warnings. Thunderstorms are pretty common, and if we get a flash flood we’d need an ark to save us. I guess there is a creek somewhere within the same cell tower where people near it could get flash flooding, but I’ll be damned if I know where it is.

may have to turn them back on and see if it’s gotten any better.

 

[Dawgbite]

There are weather alerts that I subscribe to but I have to severely limit the notifications because otherwise I’ll get a dozen alerts about a single lightning strike fifty miles away. Most people just turn the notifications off completely.

 

[hdogg]

It's either drought or floods here for sure. Lake travis up 20ft and still 15ft+ below normal.
Seems like this happens every 10 years, where the lakes are low and some hurricane remnants fill them back up and there is always loss of life.

 

[KentuckyDawg13]

Firing vital personnel (weather specialists) did this.
No other way to spin it.
Lack of personnel to communicate the eminent danger to the public.
Make America a joke again.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

Firing vital personnel (weather specialists) did this.
No other way to spin it.
Lack of personnel to communicate the eminent danger to the public.
Make America a joke again.

"They" must've fired the damned ole spelling teacher as well.

 

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

Firing vital personnel (weather specialists) did this.
No other way to spin it.
Lack of personnel to communicate the eminent danger to the public.
Make America a joke again.

Nothing could be further from the truth. The NWS office had extra staff on hand for this event. But please, continue to try and make it political by talking out your *** on something you know nothing about.

 

[maroontide06]

Firing vital personnel (weather specialists) did this.
No other way to spin it.
Lack of personnel to communicate the eminent danger to the public.
Make America a joke again.

Really? You have a sick mind.

 

[onewoof]

I remember hearing people say "How can this happen in America" after Hurricane Katrina. Tragedy happens, yes even in America.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Firing vital personnel (weather specialists) did this.
No other way to spin it.
Lack of personnel to communicate the eminent danger to the public.
Make America a joke again.

Like clockwork.

The warnings were issued as fast as possible, and having a full staff wouldn’t have changed the speed of which they were issued so come off of your little political rant high horse and look at this a little more objectively and maybe get out of your echo chamber a little bit.

 

[Dawg1969]

Some of these places are remote with no cell service. Happened in Arkansas a few years ago.

 

[bulldoghair]

Texas has 7 major cloud seeding weather modification programs.

 

[Yeti]

Someone here used to have the picture we need here…… a wing-nut ……..left wing right wing same nut

 

[ckDOG]

Texas has 7 major cloud seeding weather modification programs.

Seeding doesn't turn on a faucet for generational flooding.

 

[615dawg]

We have to do something about how storms are being reported. Since Katrina, every minor storm has been the "Storm of the Century." Its created a little bit of a crying wolf mentality.

 

[bulldoghair]

Seeding doesn't turn on a faucet for generational flooding.

Maybe, maybe not. CEO of Rainmaker, Augustus Doricko, admits to cloud seeding missions on July 2nd in the flood area, but claims no responsibility & claims the operation was suspended in compliance with Texas state regulations.

 

[missouridawg]

Maybe it happens now in the south, but I never get any kind of weather alerts on my phone other than from subscribed stuff/apps. But man an amber alert or blue alert will blare through it 2 am so loud I shart my silkies. Wireless emergency alerts.

If they're pinging cell towers for severe storms, tornadoes and flash floods using that same technology, that's what I am talking about could/should be done. I just don't recall ever seeing any myself.

ETA. Checked my settings all WEA's are on. Just never recall seeing anything. I nearly drove into what turned out to be a tornado warned storm near Amarillo a few summers ago and don't recall any warnings, but I turned around knowing it looked like end times.

This a terrible tragedy and I have a few friends that I know, who know a few of the kids that passed away (their kids go to school with girls). My wife's best friend had a niece at Camp Mystic, but she was staying at a cabin away from the river and evacuated safely.

I say all that to say this - we need to let those folks who call my phone 20 times a day about loans take over the emergency broadcast system. I get that these things happen fast and that this occurred in the middle of the night, but we have got to have a panic button somewhere.

 

[HailStout]

I literally can’t follow this story at all because all I can think about is my girls. It’s too much.

 

[dawgman42]

Firing vital personnel (weather specialists) did this.
No other way to spin it.
Lack of personnel to communicate the eminent danger to the public.
Make America a joke again.

I used to think olblue was the worst Kentucky-oriented poster. I should have known better. 20+ years of f'tard posts.

 

[ckDOG]

Maybe, maybe not. CEO of Rainmaker, Augustus Doricko, admits to cloud seeding missions on July 2nd in the flood area, but claims no responsibility & claims the operation was suspended in compliance with Texas state regulations.

It's not. You still need generational amounts of moisture in the atmosphere to dump generational amount of rain in an area. No tech can move and/or create moisture.

 

[mstateglfr]

The girl that got swept away over 12 miles and ended up in a tree is incredible. She said she had to dodge cars and refrigerators along the way. Unfortunately a lot were not as fortunate as her.

Wow, I hadnt read about the event since I read a handful of stories/reports the day after it happened, because I just didnt want to be sucked into depressive doom scrolling.
Its really awesome to see an example of how someone survived who wasnt part of the known saved groups.

 

[mstateglfr]

I really hope this doesnt get political as I would love to hear educated views on the issue. Like @Hugh's Burner Phone.

- Is there a good reason(s) to ban cloud seeding through fines and jail time?
- What are the positives and negatives, and how likely are the negatives going to happen?...like 1 in 1000 or 1 in 3?

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5386499-greene-to-introduce-weather-modification-bill/




To be very clear, I am not suggesting MTG is correct or incorrect. I am using her recent tweet as reference point to ask an experienced SPS poster about the topic in which she tweeted.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

I really hope this doesnt get political as I would love to hear educated views on the issue. Like @Hugh's Burner Phone.

- Is there a good reason(s) to ban cloud seeding through fines and jail time?
- What are the positives and negatives, and how likely are the negatives going to happen?...like 1 in 1000 or 1 in 3?

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5386499-greene-to-introduce-weather-modification-bill/
View attachment 837121



To be very clear, I am not suggesting MTG is correct or incorrect. I am using her recent tweet as reference point to ask an experienced SPS poster about the topic in which she tweeted.

Cloud seeding doesn’t cause a rain event like that. It’s very temporary and can cause a possibility of rain showers in a small area. It doesn’t cause the type of rain that happened over the weekend there and it was the remnants of a tropical storm accelerating the rain rate.

 

[ckDOG]

Like clockwork.

The warnings were issued as fast as possible, and having a full staff wouldn’t have changed the speed of which they were issued so come off of your little political rant high horse and look at this a little more objectively and maybe get out of your echo chamber a little bit.

The scrutiny will end up being on the steps that happen after a forecast (everything I've seen says the forecast part was right - or right enough to merit a response to a deadly scenario) to coordination with local officials when a deadly scenario is present. Articles I've read show some finger pointing from local officials to NWS - which is probably just a natural thing to do in a ****** situation where people die or simple CYA when it's the local resources/planning that will end up looking the worst all said and done.

Regardless of what all settles out of that - I don't know what you do in that part of the country. Relying on cell communication seems hit or miss in reception and human response to it. Warning siren systems? That takes money and the locals/TX have to drive that. It's not going to happen top down from the Feds.

 

[ckDOG]

I really hope this doesnt get political as I would love to hear educated views on the issue. Like @Hugh's Burner Phone.

- Is there a good reason(s) to ban cloud seeding through fines and jail time?
- What are the positives and negatives, and how likely are the negatives going to happen?...like 1 in 1000 or 1 in 3?

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5386499-greene-to-introduce-weather-modification-bill/
View attachment 837121



To be very clear, I am not suggesting MTG is correct or incorrect. I am using her recent tweet as reference point to ask an experienced SPS poster about the topic in which she tweeted.

Notable lack of "laser" from this list. Has she moved on from that one?

 

[mstateglfr]

Cloud seeding doesn’t cause a rain event like that. It’s very temporary and can cause a possibility of rain showers in a small area. It doesn’t cause the type of rain that happened over the weekend there and it was the remnants of a tropical storm accelerating the rain rate.

Totally understand. I wasnt suggesting the event was caused by seeding. But since that came up in sociopolitical discussion over the weekend and was referenced in this thread, I figured I would ask what positives and negatives exist, as well as how likely are the negatives.

 

[johnson86-1]

Regardless of what all settles out of that - I don't know what you do in that part of the country. Relying on cell communication seems hit or miss in reception and human response to it. Warning siren systems? That takes money and the locals/TX have to drive that. It's not going to happen top down from the Feds.

I don't understand how out of all the money the federal government has been gushing out for the past couple of decades, that subsidizing cell towers in remote but still populated areas hasn't happened. I get in mountainous areas it's not as easy, but still seems like some powerful rural legislators would have had that happen. Plenty of opportunities for graft associated with it also so it seems like a project that would have bipartisan support.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

The scrutiny will end up being on the steps that happen after a forecast (everything I've seen says the forecast part was right - or right enough to merit a response to a deadly scenario) to coordination with local officials when a deadly scenario is present. Articles I've read show some finger pointing from local officials to NWS - which is probably just a natural thing to do in a ****** situation where people die or simple CYA when it's the local resources/planning that will end up looking the worst all said and done.

Regardless of what all settles out of that - I don't know what you do in that part of the country. Relying on cell communication seems hit or miss in reception and human response to it. Warning siren systems? That takes money and the locals/TX have to drive that. It's not going to happen top down from the Feds.

I don’t want to sound callous because what happened is absolutely horrific and I’ve gotten to where I can’t watch the videos of the camps where the kids were, but this event was just a disastrous catastrophe that couldn’t have been prevented and was warned to the extent of what local authorities and the national weather service could do. It’s just a horrible horrible Flood on a scale that is not normally seen

 

[grinningmule]

I started following this guy's FB after seeing some of his posts on the 4th. He is retired but has been very spot on.



From the 30th

 

[grinningmule]

I don't understand how out of all the money the federal government has been gushing out for the past couple of decades, that subsidizing cell towers in remote but still populated areas hasn't happened. I get in mountainous areas it's not as easy, but still seems like some powerful rural legislators would have had that happen. Plenty of opportunities for graft associated with it also so it seems like a project that would have bipartisan support.

Our gov't never seems to have money for certain things but money magically appears from the printers for things like Ukraine, sending out checks for COVID after shutting down the country and putting people out of work, etc, etc. Trillions in debt be damned.

 

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

I really hope this doesnt get political as I would love to hear educated views on the issue. Like @Hugh's Burner Phone.

- Is there a good reason(s) to ban cloud seeding through fines and jail time?
- What are the positives and negatives, and how likely are the negatives going to happen?...like 1 in 1000 or 1 in 3?

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5386499-greene-to-introduce-weather-modification-bill/
View attachment 837121



To be very clear, I am not suggesting MTG is correct or incorrect. I am using her recent tweet as reference point to ask an experienced SPS poster about the topic in which she tweeted.

I am far from a cloud seeding expert, but when you read cloud seeding in the context of the above you can usually translate that to "chemtrails". The conspiracy theories are enough to make you clinically insane on what the govt is accused of doing. For true cloud seeding I have not seen one report where it caused catastrophic flooding. Maybe it has happened. I don't know. But this event in TX was due to a land falling tropical system on the west coast of Mexico that moved over TX and stalled out. Think Houston a few years ago when some places got 3ft of rain. True cloud seeding is usually done in drought stricken areas in an attempt to get beneficial rainfall to an area. Once the clouds that have been seeded rain themselves out or dissipate, the seed is out of the air.

So to answer your question, I don't see any reason to criminalize the act. Much less make it a felony. Any time we make a post on our storm team facebook page on something like this it's always a matter of time before the loons come out to "educate" us and calling us shills on the payroll of the govt. Trust me, if we were on the govt payroll we'd have a ton more cameras up right now.

 

[ckDOG]

I don’t want to sound callous because what happened is absolutely horrific and I’ve gotten to where I can’t watch the videos of the camps where the kids were, but this event was just a disastrous catastrophe that couldn’t have been prevented and was warned to the extent of what local authorities and the national weather service could do. It’s just a horrible horrible Flood on a scale that is not normally seen

It's not callous. Sometimes the truth just sucks. People aren't comfortable with disasters/death and need a reason or person to blame. It'll probably get pretty nasty with the finger pointing even before the political bombs get tossed in there.