This assessment hinges completely on whether they are using "outdated methods" and are "slowly sliding into mediocrity". I have a feeling Bob doesn't believe that in the slightest and there may be a few people close to the program that feel the same as Bob...
For all the complainers
- Thread starter Evashevsky58
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That's obvious Bob and TnT are on the same page. But that might not be the great things you think it is. At a certain point which in IMO we have crossed...Its enabling and not creating change.
If we are looking in the mirror about outdated methods & sliding. When would you know that MSU? What does that look like? In your opinion can that be fairly assessed this year, next year, 3 years, when? Is it the new recruits coming in and this is the final test? Or is it as long as we hang around 4th we should appreciate just that and stop being spoiled? Thats a great card to play for ISU- Not Iowa
Again IMO I think we have enough sample size to rip the band aid off this program. However that said I do agree I dont want to replace TnT just for the sake of change and I dont have a great list of replacements. Yes it could get a bit worse than this but I dont see it falling off that bad even with a not so great hire. Just too many resources, fan support and brand name to ever drift off to a perrenial 8-12 ranked team. So I am not afraid of change but again I think we would agree it would be awesome if it looked great on paper with the new guy.
In regards to Bob. Appreciate the checks but back to the question above. If and when you access outdated methods & sliding - are we suppose to ignoring it then out of fear we will never have another Bob?
IMO a rebuild is rebuild and I refuse to be held hostage of change by one donor. New coach, new doors open. You don't think Taylor hasn't brough in new money that Smith couldn't get from the fatigue of complacency? I can feel that fatigue in this fan base is at an all time high and I am not sure we can put that train back in the station.
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I think this has been the most reasoned take yet. I appreciate Tom and his contributions to the program but it’s past time. He has to be held accountable for allowing the rise of PSU while being complacent in recruiting, training, abnormal amount of injures, etc.
One team title in 16 years doesn’t cut it. Stop blaming covid, excuses are for wusses, remember? The fact Iowa returned almost their whole team after COVID and were notably worse was a huge flag.
The worst level of criticism that can be leveled at Iowa is their lack of offense. Their best wrestler wins by a point or two. I would prefer to clean out staff, with the hopes of getting in a young, technical coach with accolades and can recruit in the hopes of getting some exciting offensive output.
Change the singlets until the team starts resembling the Iowa of old. I don’t even care if they lose but to watch each meet and know the outcome of most matches and meets is disheartening.
I guess it’s good that fans are unhappy, it means we still care.
This thread, and so many others, talk about PSU as being indestructible, which they seem to be. There is so much talk about hanging in there and staying #2. We haven't even been #2 consistently for a while. We are where Ok. State was in the early '80s. Realizing we aren't #1 anymore and scratching to remain relevant. Ok. St fired a great coach because he couldn't beat Gable and brought in a shady one because he had beaten Iowa a couple of times. Then, when he got caught cheating, they kicked him to the curb and brought in Smith. They then became so loyal to him after he won a few times that they became so complacent that they lived with finishes in the teens and let him hang around too long. That is close to where we are now. Happy to pull out a 2nd every few years, and hanging around the top 4 or 5.
I have my times, like last weekend when I get po'd and disgusted with TNT, but I always ask, "who's available that could do better".
There is no definite answer. There are possibles, and lots of speculation, but no sure-fire answer. If Tom is as obstinate as everyone says, bringing in some fresh blood as assistants wouldn't do any good, so maybe it's time to roll the dice. We might get worse for a while, but I refuse to be happy with 2nd-5th permanently. Iowa wrestling should be better than that.
I have my times, like last weekend when I get po'd and disgusted with TNT, but I always ask, "who's available that could do better".
There is no definite answer. There are possibles, and lots of speculation, but no sure-fire answer. If Tom is as obstinate as everyone says, bringing in some fresh blood as assistants wouldn't do any good, so maybe it's time to roll the dice. We might get worse for a while, but I refuse to be happy with 2nd-5th permanently. Iowa wrestling should be better than that.
I hope and pray Spencer can hold 57kg and Lillidauhl and Blaze can’t make that weight next year or he may not even make the world team. Anyone else you can think of that can take the crown of best us 57kg between now and 2028?
Of course he doesn't believe it or he wouldn't be lighting his money on fire chasing it. LOL. What Bob believes is not necessarily tethered to the truth, either.
You're a miserable jackass
Maybe Toms biggest 'flaw' and reason for falling behind is he isnt willing to bend/break rules.
I think it is very fair to complain at this time. The lack of recruiting success, the lack of a different style approach, no changes to the coaching staff or anyone outside of the iowa way, burning of many bridges of former iowa wrestlers are all an area you could criticize and add them all together it is an issue. I don't know that there is a better option out there right now but I also know unless we change something, we will get the same results. Now you can talk about the great start to 27 and 28 recruiting classes but that is 2 years away and this year is not a very exciting team and next year looks even worse.
The Bo situation pretty much says that’s the case, maybe not so much Tom as the compliance department. And then immediately following his de-commitment the rules change. Maybe other factors in play, like his family, but that was obviously a factor. Then add in the fact his teammate was allowed to run all the way across country to train and nothing being done. Pretty obvious certain programs are allowed to bend the rules and others aren’t/don’t
I am not sure TnT is capable of any coaching change. They are very very stubborn guys so I don't think they would listen to or incorporate any outside ideas. They are not for everyone and many wouldn't want to work with them everyday. There is a short list for guys like that. That's why Morningstar & Dennis are just always going to attached to them.
Its way too many years of watching over half or even 7 or 8 of 10 guys all wrestle like Morningstall style strategy. Many cant overshoot because they cant scramble, many shoot from miles away, many cant finish with a leg in the air. Nobody turns, nobody is a pinner. Much like the forward pass under Brian Ferentz- the takedown has become much harder than ever for Iowa wrestling. Such a stale product.
Nope. None in 2020, and not guaranteed you actually win it. Keep on leveling the field Bob.
Man, you run your mouth on subjects you know nothing about. Just an opinion but I find it difficult to believe the Iowa AD office doesn't ask you to shut up. I am sure they like your money but I have to believe when you aren't present you are discussed as the embarrassment you are.
But wait, according to people here, Brands burns bridges with all former wrestlers. When transfers come in, they must be lying about feeling welcomed in a family atmosphere.
So if the rules changed after Bo's decommitment then why couldn't Brands get them to recommit if that obstacle was out of the way?
Was that bridge burnt too much?
I’m sure you’re aware Carls cookies came out a bit ago. I was wonder if it would make me really strong like Aaron Brooks? TIA
Both can be true. DSJ & Warner have differing views about their past coach. But Iowa does seem to have more disgruntled types on whatever level that may be. I mean Dresser is a good dude and Brands cant even get along with him. It would be nice to have a head coach at Iowa who didn't make fans choose. All former hawks should be welcomed for their past greatness.
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DSJ and Metcalf went to one Iowas biggest rivals. Do you expect them to be best buds. Also do you think Taylor and Carl are on great terms right now?
What were rules being broke with jax? Seeious question. Im a bit in the dark on rules. Can kids not travel to their future college to work out? I remember lee coming and working out at iowa while in HS. What were the rupes being broke that TT wouldn't do? Was okie st paying for jax travel?
Ok. Sometimes the truth hurts. Imagine, an idiot like yourself, donating money to such a poor product.
Some of you should really try pulling your heads out of Bob's *** while he tries to pull his out of the Brands bros. Would be a good start.
That is the mentality of a child. Oh you are employed and providing for your family but it’s a rival team so we can’t be friends or even cordial? If that is Tom’s mindset then he really is a **** person but I don’t believe that is the case.
Idk or care about Carl and Taylor but the same applies.
I just don't see any issue with all the great coaches, all the recruiting experts and not to leave out the technique and skill needed to win at this level. You all should just drop your resume to Beth.
Relax Iowa wrestling is fine no one stays at the top for ever. Yes its tough but they'll get back.
Relax Iowa wrestling is fine no one stays at the top for ever. Yes its tough but they'll get back.
From an outsiders perspective, Iowa is still relevant, but no more than any other mid to upper tier program. The fan base has, for the most part, remained stuck in the glory days. I grew up idolizing the entire Iowa program. It just doesn't garner that attention anymore, and really doesn't deserve to. It resembles the Young Guns club so much. It had its day, but those days are gone. New clubs came about that offered better training, and parents/kids noticed. It doesn't take away from how good it was, but failing to adapt just makes for a stale, outdated product. Some of the fans have already become content with a team battling to be the best of the rest. Penn State built a juggernaut. They rebuilt a program with a good not great foundation. Throughout history, Iowa is one of the greatest programs ever. Pretty tough to imagine it would be hard to get back on top starting with that. Instead, it seems to clutch its pearls and hang on to what it has.
As far as the Hawkeye Wrestling Club, its laughable to think it is remotely close to the top RTCs. Top athletes leave their current RTC to head elsewhere all the time. Why do none of these post grad wrestlers head to Iowa? That tells you pretty much all you need to know about their confidence in the club. Just my 2 cents of course. Not trying to ruffle any feathers, or troll anyone. Its hard when you get older and the glory days don't match up with the current landscape.
As far as the Hawkeye Wrestling Club, its laughable to think it is remotely close to the top RTCs. Top athletes leave their current RTC to head elsewhere all the time. Why do none of these post grad wrestlers head to Iowa? That tells you pretty much all you need to know about their confidence in the club. Just my 2 cents of course. Not trying to ruffle any feathers, or troll anyone. Its hard when you get older and the glory days don't match up with the current landscape.
Exactly. Iowa needs to go back to the ways of Gable. Who cares if Gable cheated by giving out too many scholarships....it was a winning dynasty.
Extra scholarships> Roids, Prostitutes, sexual Assault, fighting cops
Im no expert by any means, and im sure someone will correct me or add to this, but they had to live within a 250mile radius to the rtc’s to train there. I think there was a limit to the amount of times they could train there if they lived outside that radius, or something along those lines. Jax’s work around was somebody renting him an apartment in Stillwater and trying to pass that off as his primary residence. Which everyone knew was BS.
OK, lets DO THIS the KING IRON way shall we!?!??!
FIRST!!! lets get these JOCK-OFF wanna a be bandwagon yellow bellied spineless wussie TROLLS off our board!!! I have to believe, that now that this is a PAID board, IF we have a MODERATOR???? It would be VERY easy to see who they are, and make it POLICY to TAKE their $$$$$ and throw them the F off!!!
TWOOOO) and maybe BOB or some other INSIDERS will know better then most???? What is IOWA/TnT dealing with that others teams are not? I.E. is it our compliance dept is a bunch of horses asses? Is it our AD is a horses ***? Is it TnT our horses asses???? WTF is it that had us losing Bassett? (only latest example!!!)
We ALL know 100% that other teams are pretty much doing what they want. So the field is not level and you could bring in GABLE 2.0 and it would not make a Cocks *** difference!!!! You simple can NOT lose then #1 kid and crew while fighting to make up ground and STILL expect to!!!
I have been in coaching positions MANY times where I did not have support. Had a LesBo BimBO AD at one skool who constantly sided with ANYONE but OUR TEAM!!!! Was at another skool and was told not to push my gym because it would be a conflict of interest???? What was AMAZING about that was. One of our extremely bright Wrestlers was standing right there when the head guy told me this. The kid says, "My Math teacher tutors kids on the side that are IN HER CLASS!!!
He knew this because he also tutored kids!!! So I am like, yea, this is a FULL-Time teacher tutoring her kids in her subject!!! and I am a seasonal Wrestling coach who can't offer kids a place to TRAIN!?!?!?? Mean while some skools are running CAMPS out of their skools and we couldn't run open mats!!!
SOOOOO - IF IOWA has "issues" behind the scenes???? Well we are in MUCH B1GGER trouble then we all thought!!! There is NO way around it INCLUDING$$$$$ if we can not USE IT!!!!
FIRST!!! lets get these JOCK-OFF wanna a be bandwagon yellow bellied spineless wussie TROLLS off our board!!! I have to believe, that now that this is a PAID board, IF we have a MODERATOR???? It would be VERY easy to see who they are, and make it POLICY to TAKE their $$$$$ and throw them the F off!!!
TWOOOO) and maybe BOB or some other INSIDERS will know better then most???? What is IOWA/TnT dealing with that others teams are not? I.E. is it our compliance dept is a bunch of horses asses? Is it our AD is a horses ***? Is it TnT our horses asses???? WTF is it that had us losing Bassett? (only latest example!!!)
We ALL know 100% that other teams are pretty much doing what they want. So the field is not level and you could bring in GABLE 2.0 and it would not make a Cocks *** difference!!!! You simple can NOT lose then #1 kid and crew while fighting to make up ground and STILL expect to!!!
I have been in coaching positions MANY times where I did not have support. Had a LesBo BimBO AD at one skool who constantly sided with ANYONE but OUR TEAM!!!! Was at another skool and was told not to push my gym because it would be a conflict of interest???? What was AMAZING about that was. One of our extremely bright Wrestlers was standing right there when the head guy told me this. The kid says, "My Math teacher tutors kids on the side that are IN HER CLASS!!!
He knew this because he also tutored kids!!! So I am like, yea, this is a FULL-Time teacher tutoring her kids in her subject!!! and I am a seasonal Wrestling coach who can't offer kids a place to TRAIN!?!?!?? Mean while some skools are running CAMPS out of their skools and we couldn't run open mats!!!
SOOOOO - IF IOWA has "issues" behind the scenes???? Well we are in MUCH B1GGER trouble then we all thought!!! There is NO way around it INCLUDING$$$$$ if we can not USE IT!!!!
I hadn’t thought about this before, but it’s an excellent point. If HWC was a top program, every now and then there would be someone coming in from Nebraska or Va Tech or wherever. But I can’t think of a single person who didn’t first wrestle for Iowa. (I’m sure there must be one, but I can’t think of him).
I’ve said this many times here and the old board, but I think this is where the focus should be. It’s short term and tactical to pay for a few transfers so the team can stay in the medal hunt, but it is long term strategic to make the HWC the best in the country. When recruits see world champs wrestling in town, that’s a much bigger draw than a new facility or whatever. Top recruits want to be Olympic and world champs. Those incentivized by money are suspect (see 141 pounds this year).
HWC needs 6 or 8 Spencers, not one Spencer plus some very good wrestlers who used to wrestle for Iowa, but who can’t make the US team.
This guy is an embarrassment on so many levels.
It's not Beth's fault. She understands the importance of the wrestling team at the university. She will not sit around and be content to finish 3-5 every year because its a minor sport. If she told Kirk to fire his own son then you think she wont tell Tom it's time.
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That's the issue, fans want a legend a dominant coach and that usually doesn't happen until the current guy leaves. After Gable retired Iowa won about half the titles until Sanderson's second year. Gable started coaching two generations ago and was at Iowa app one generation.
And you think Gable's lads weren't using back in the day prior to testing? Snyder didn't wrestle at PSU, there's no sexual assault that I know of, and for Davis I'm sure of Dan's lads got in trouble. It's a different day now from when I was at PSU in the 1980s. Cops handle things very differently now.
You forgot the slush fund!