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For Stans haters â?? NC State is a cautionary tale

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o_riverdawg

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For those of you who want Stans fired. Just take a look at the situation at NC State right now.
Herb Sendek took over a NC State program in 1996 that hadn't had a winning record in six years. His first season he posted a winning record and went to the NIT. After spending a few years getting the program moving in the right direction (4 NIT's in 5 years, including the NIT Final Four in 2000) Sendek finally made the NCAA Tournament in 2002, and would take NC State to five tourneys in a row, which is tied for the longest streak in school history. He also made the Sweet 16 in 2005. During those five years, the Wolfpack finished in the top four of the ACC four times. Still, that wasn't good enough for delusional NC State fans, who still remembered the glory days of the 80s when Valvano had his miracle run to the NCAA championship and thought that should still be the norm. The fans rode Sendek hard and called for his head time after time for not doing more than he had. Finally, Sendek got tired of it and left. Good riddance said the NC State fans. So NC State tries to hire another coach and guess what. Nobody wants the job. Funny, no good coaches wanted to be at a school with crazy *** fans who just ran off one of the most successful coaches in school history that had taken the team to five straight NCAA tourneys. So they get stuck with Sidney Lowe, a former NC State great who was a disaster with the Vancouver/Memphis Grizzlies (his NBA head coaching record is 79-228). In three plus years under Lowe, NC State is a combined 17-36 in the ACC, never finished higher than 10th in the league, has not sniffed the NCAA tourney and has fans pining for the success they had under Herb Sendek. Sendek meanwhile took over an Arizona State program that was in sorry shape. In his second year, they made the NIT. His third year, they made their first NCAA tourney apperance in six years. They are in the mix for the NCAA tourney again this year.

Moral of the story: Be careful what you wish for. You might not realize how good of a thing you had until it is gone.
 
O

o_riverdawg

New member
Jul 21, 2008
523
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For those of you who want Stans fired. Just take a look at the situation at NC State right now.
Herb Sendek took over a NC State program in 1996 that hadn't had a winning record in six years. His first season he posted a winning record and went to the NIT. After spending a few years getting the program moving in the right direction (4 NIT's in 5 years, including the NIT Final Four in 2000) Sendek finally made the NCAA Tournament in 2002, and would take NC State to five tourneys in a row, which is tied for the longest streak in school history. He also made the Sweet 16 in 2005. During those five years, the Wolfpack finished in the top four of the ACC four times. Still, that wasn't good enough for delusional NC State fans, who still remembered the glory days of the 80s when Valvano had his miracle run to the NCAA championship and thought that should still be the norm. The fans rode Sendek hard and called for his head time after time for not doing more than he had. Finally, Sendek got tired of it and left. Good riddance said the NC State fans. So NC State tries to hire another coach and guess what. Nobody wants the job. Funny, no good coaches wanted to be at a school with crazy *** fans who just ran off one of the most successful coaches in school history that had taken the team to five straight NCAA tourneys. So they get stuck with Sidney Lowe, a former NC State great who was a disaster with the Vancouver/Memphis Grizzlies (his NBA head coaching record is 79-228). In three plus years under Lowe, NC State is a combined 17-36 in the ACC, never finished higher than 10th in the league, has not sniffed the NCAA tourney and has fans pining for the success they had under Herb Sendek. Sendek meanwhile took over an Arizona State program that was in sorry shape. In his second year, they made the NIT. His third year, they made their first NCAA tourney apperance in six years. They are in the mix for the NCAA tourney again this year.

Moral of the story: Be careful what you wish for. You might not realize how good of a thing you had until it is gone.
 
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patdog

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May 28, 2007
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is just as delusional as those NC State fans were when they ran Sendeck off. Not that nobody besides Stans could ever win here or there isn't a chance we could hire a coach who could win as much as, or more than, Stans does. But the odds of doing that are pretty damn low, like 20%. The odds of hiring another Jeff Lebo, Sidney Lowe, etc. are probably about 80%. We're all frustrated about not reaching the Sweet 16 and some of the pre-conference losses, but the best way to get to the Sweet 16 is to consistently get to the tournament, and that's what Stans does. He'll eventually break through if we can just keep ignoring a few idiot fans.
 
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Tds & Beer

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I am a person who is constantly criticizing Stansbury. However, that doesn't mean I want him gone. I just want him to do a better job. I just want him to do the little things that all coaches do that he doesn't do. Little things like get the ball in the middle against a zone, have a full court offense in place so you big guy doesn't bring the ball down the court, use your entire team to get the ball down court against a zone press, call a timeout when you entire team is tired and getting beat down the court etc. Not all people that criticize him want him gone. We just want him to do better. I, for one, realize that we have been lucky to have him. But he still needs to get better. I wish we would come out early and get a nice lead and keep that lead the whole game. When that doesn't happen all year, you gotta look at who's in charge.
 
ckDOG

ckDOG

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Dec 11, 2007
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Acting rashly or not acting timely? Both have unknowns and both have their risks. I'm sure there's a story somewhere about the team that kept waiting and let everyone pass them by in the process, too.

Without a long drawn out discussion, I'll just sum up my thoughts. If we disappoint in the post season again this year (or fail to get there), I'd say it's time to reevaluate our assistant coaches and try to bring in some new blood. It simply wouldn't feel right if we were to can Rick. But, that's not to say changes can't or shouldn't be made. I don't think it's unreasonable at all for Rick to swallow a little pride and try something different.
 
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BriantheDawg

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May 24, 2006
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will not be as successful as what we currently have in Rick Stansbury. And if we do run him off, we will deserve exactly what we will get. We simply aren't the national power they try to make us out to be. Lucky for us though, we have great leadership in the Athletic Department and I'm positive they know how good we have it now.
 
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patdog

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May 28, 2007
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No coach should ever be "coach for life." And we probably do need to forceStans to replace an assistant (maybe even 2) if we don't finish strong this season. Someone posted a few weeks ago that we don't have anyone in the basketball program who has worked anywhere but MSU since about 2002. That's way too long to go without bringing in some fresh blood into a program.
 
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DowntownDawg

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but the best way to get to the Sweet 16 is to consistently get to the tournament, and that's what Stans does.
Click to expand...

the best way to get to the Sweet 16 is to win enough regular season games to get a manageable seed. And that's what Stans has failed to do in the last few seasons. Playing a 1 or 2 on the first weekend does not get you there.

And as unreasonable as fans of any school can be, if Stansbury had a Sweet 16 in the last 5 years, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
 
DawgatAuburn

DawgatAuburn

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Apr 25, 2006
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I have never and am nowhere close to saying fire Stansbury. I appreciate all he has done for the program and would love to see him add to that success. I just don't think he can do it on his own, which is what he is basically doing with those three suit-wearing mannequins on the bench. We all have weaknesses in our jobs. Good managers recognize their weaknesses and hire people who can help them in those areas. If he does that, I think he can easily go another 10 years. After that I could see him burning out and stepping away as his kids get into their teens. I do believe that his family is important enough to him that he would do that.
 
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DowntownDawg

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...this is where the coaching life cycle bit comes into play. He's been there 12 years and for many of those years was the most successful coach on campus. He may view himself as "above" a young AD coming to him and telling him to replace assistants. I am not convinced at all that he would say "Yes sir" and pull the trigger on that.
 
ckDOG

ckDOG

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Dec 11, 2007
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2 questions then remain:

1) Is Rick loyal to his assistants to a fault, like Croom was?
2) Is Rick's ego too large to admit changes are merited, like Croom's was?

I don't know the answers, but the answer needs to be "no" for both if we can expect to see any genuine attempts at change for the better.
 
DawgatAuburn

DawgatAuburn

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If he wants one them gone, they will be gone, despite any argument from the HC. The better situation would be to help a couple of them find jobs ASAP.
 
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Tds & Beer

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I agree that somethin needs to change in order for us to be successful on offense. Every game we play is almost unwatchable if you are not a fan of State's or their opponents. The reason for this is because of our half court offense. That would change with new assistants in place from another program with an actal sctructure.
 
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8dog

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Feb 23, 2008
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going to the tournament>>>not going to the tournament.
 
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