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For the record (regarding your recruiting)

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someonestolemyusernamedamnit

Redshirt
May 24, 2006
238
0
0
I don't know where the hell Croom the Recruiter came from but I'd just like to say he is officially kicking Nutt's *** right now. It's not even close. Croom is flat cleaning house in the state of Mississippi.

It's almost funny to read the Spirit site and see my fellow Rebel fans clamoring to come up with excuses: "Nutt is focusing on out of state. Trust Nutt. It's only July. It means nothing this early!!!!!!11!@@@1!!"

Those same idiots were prancing around like banty roosters this time last year because O had so many commitments so early.

I'm pumped beyond belief to have Nutt as our coach right now. I'm not having to force myself to get pumped for football season this time. I'm so ready I could run through a brick wall. Having said that, Houston, we do have a problem. Get your head out of your ***.

That is all.
 
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someonestolemyusernamedamnit

Redshirt
May 24, 2006
238
0
0
I don't know where the hell Croom the Recruiter came from but I'd just like to say he is officially kicking Nutt's *** right now. It's not even close. Croom is flat cleaning house in the state of Mississippi.

It's almost funny to read the Spirit site and see my fellow Rebel fans clamoring to come up with excuses: "Nutt is focusing on out of state. Trust Nutt. It's only July. It means nothing this early!!!!!!11!@@@1!!"

Those same idiots were prancing around like banty roosters this time last year because O had so many commitments so early.

I'm pumped beyond belief to have Nutt as our coach right now. I'm not having to force myself to get pumped for football season this time. I'm so ready I could run through a brick wall. Having said that, Houston, we do have a problem. Get your head out of your ***.

That is all.
 
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DerHntr

All-Conference
Sep 18, 2007
15,751
2,545
113
about it all but not so curious that i would head over to check it out myself. thanks for the info. and at this point i have decided not to run around talking recruiting smack because this is way too reminiscent of O the Recruiter right now. i'll be happy if they make it to campus but wouldn't be surprised to see several not qualify or change their minds.
 
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TR.sixpack

Redshirt
Feb 14, 2008
3,268
0
0
Croom is coming off his best season, and now has a little capital to back up his recruiting spiel. Ole Miss is coming of another bad year, and that takes it toll on your perception among recruits. Add to it the fact Croom has almost 5 years of relationship building with local coaches and players, while Nutt and his staff are relative newcomers to the area, and it's easy to see why the field seems tilted toward State. History tell us it will even out and all Houston Dale has to do is show modest improvements. I think things will be much more competitive again next season. ( I doubt Nutt will take as long as Croom to get up to speed on in-state recruiting.)
 
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Coach34

Redshirt
Jul 20, 2012
20,283
1
0
to see whats going on right now. We finally have some skill people wanting to come on board...i'm curious to see how many sign after watching us on offense. Maybe Crooms has finally turned the corner in recruiting...Cant be anything but optimistic right now
 
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OEMDawg

Redshirt
Mar 22, 2008
1,383
0
0
Don't worry. [Rebelbruiser] Ole Miss obviously had the talent to win 10 games last year.[/Rebelbruiser]

Once Nutt gets you in the national title hunt this year, you'll return to your usual dominance in state. Croom is obviously cheating right now and it's working. But once recruits learn that Ole Miss and Houston Nutt are the dominant force in Mississippi and the SEC overall, it's back to the end of the line for poor ol MSU.
 
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DerHntr

All-Conference
Sep 18, 2007
15,751
2,545
113
and we should get them. we had a good year, kept our coach, he got SEC COY, and a lot of press for being a father figure and great guy. they had a year to forget, a fired coach, and then a new coach. we are definitely seeing some residual from the fact that our better than normal season was timed very well with their worse than normal season. for our sake i hope we keep the momentum and then actually do something with these guys once they get on campus.
 
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RebelBruiser

Redshirt
Aug 21, 2007
7,349
0
0
OEMDawg said:
Don't worry. [Rebelbruiser] Ole Miss obviously had the talent to win 10 games last year.[/Rebelbruiser]

Once Nutt gets you in the national title hunt this year, you'll return to your usual dominance in state. Croom is obviously cheating right now and
it's working. But once recruits learn that Ole Miss and Houston Nutt are the dominant force in Mississippi and the SEC overall, it's back to the end
of the line for poor ol MSU.
Click to expand...

</p>

I said we had the talent last year that I thought we could've won 6 games. For one, we didn't use that talent right (see Brent Schaeffer the pro style QB) and for another, we had a coach who never figured out how to properly get his team prepared for a game, much less make solid in game decisions. I really don't think it's a stretch to say we could've won 6 games last year with decent coaching and decent preparation.

Last I checked, no one that posts on this board has said anything remotely close to what you just said, so I don't get the joke.
 
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DerHntr

All-Conference
Sep 18, 2007
15,751
2,545
113
 
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patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
55,939
24,908
113
You've got to admit, Croom has given him a lot of ammunition over the past 4 years, plus the spring game this year.
 
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Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
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Well, I've always been of the opinion to wait and see how these players turn out. The SEC is a LOT different than 5A football.

I have been impressed with what we have lined up so far, it's almost too good.
 
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Todd4State

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
17,411
1
0
and as poorly suited to college as it may be, it is still an offense that is commonly used in the NFL, and if I was a HS QB or another skill position player, that would make MSU very attractive to me. Yes, we have had to endure some crappy offenses the past few years, but, maybe Croom is sticking with it for that reason- and his NFL background I'm sure is one of his main selling points. Maybe he knew that we would struggle on offense for a few years, so he built up the defense and ST to try to take up the slack until we were able to get some guys who are talented enough to run the WCO. Was that the right way to go? That's a matter of opinion, but with the rise of spread offenses, you're seeing a lot of QB's like Colt Brennan labeled as system QB's and so if you run a pro style offense, you should theoretically be able to attract a better QB.

We will see if the players he is bringing can run the WCO. Of course, my biggest question for Croom and running the WCO is why was there seemingly so little emphasis on recruiting a WCO type QB and WR's? Were there some guys that things just fell through on, like Corey Gardhigh? And there were some QB's that we brought in that simply couldn't run it- Henig, Ty Evans, and Rutland. And our top WR's (supposedly) are a former walk-on and a guy who transferred in from Morehead State, and then a guy who was a top recruit with an attitude problem that may be resolved and Aubrey Bell.

If you're going to run the WCO, or any offense, you have to have the right personnel that can do it. You wouldn't want Eli Manning to run the spread option, and you don't need erratic QB's running the WCO and trying to throw to former walk-ons.
 
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BullDawg62

Guest
.........but I have just gotta tell you how much I love your avatar! Can't wait for Lost to return....

***OK, carry on!!***
 
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Coach34

Redshirt
Jul 20, 2012
20,283
1
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" and if I was a HS QB or another skill position player, that would make MSU very attractive to me"

We have yet to put a QB in the pros, and that hurts alot...And the fact our offense is now a joke, it doesnt help

"you're seeing a lot of QB's like Colt Brennan labeled as system QB's "

Colt Brennan was drafted and signed a contract for a couple of million...is being a system QB so bad? Its benefiited plaenty of other guys

</p>

Bottom line- Crooms up to this point has done a piss poor job of recruiting QB's and WR's...

</p>
 
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TBonewannabe

Redshirt
Mar 3, 2008
1,262
0
0
Wes Carroll is the only decent QB we have gotten that had decent offers from other people. And he wasn't highly recruited. Rutland was the other one but he was coming off knee problems and seems like he was offered as a WR by some people.

WCO may work but not when you do as bad in recruiting QB and WR since basically the offense revolves around them.
 
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cowbell9

Redshirt
Nov 15, 2005
3,887
0
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...refused your offer to train me on how to put them on. You seemed very disappointed. Maybe Bruiser is more your type.
 
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RebelBruiser

Redshirt
Aug 21, 2007
7,349
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TBonewannabe said:
WCO may work but not when you do as bad in recruiting QB and WR since basically the offense revolves around them.
Click to expand...

</p>

That's just the thing. The WCO was designed as an offense to allow a team with a less talented QB and possibly less athletic WRs to be able to excel. The theory behind the WCO is that it's supposed to allow you to still score points even without a lot of talent.

Sure, more talented players would help, but I really don't think lack of talent is the reason your offense hasn't been working.

The primary reason your offense hasn't been working is that I think the WCO is too complex for the college level. You don't get enough practice time to be able to successfully utilize everything that makes the WCO work on the pro level. Most of the WCO revolves around timing routes, pre-snap reads, etc. that allow the QB and WR to exploit the defense with a short, quick passing game. That's the problem at the college level. Your QBs and WRs have to execute a lot of the offense mentally, and your QB and WRs have to be on the same page on every play. Those things can only be accomplished with repetition. College football limits the amount of time that players can work together, and therefore, it limits the ability of the WCO to be successful.

Recruiting will help somewhat with your offense obviously, but I think as long as Croom is running the WCO, you'll only see it truly clicking when on occasion you have a very experienced offense that's been together for a couple years. The problem with that is that you only get 4 years with players, and those type of seasons will only come along every few years or so.
 
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DowntownDawg

Redshirt
May 28, 2007
3,494
0
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...SEC Coaches who have recruited and coached an NFL bound QB since 2004:
Tommy Tubberville, Phil Fulmer, Rich Brooks, Nick Saban (sort of - recruited Jamarcus Russell and coached him, but didn't coach him the year before he left, but I'm feeling generous), Bobby Johnson

....SEC Coaches who have not recruited and coached an NFL bound QB since 2004:
Houston Nutt (Matt Jones is an NFL WR), Ed Orgeron, Sylvester Croom, Mike Shula, Steve Spurrier, Mark Richt, etc.

Meyer and Miles haven't had a full class to do it. Saban hasn't either. However, I bet neither Saban or Miles has an NFL bound qb on their roster from their first signing class, like you are criticizing Croom for.

....Hell, what Mississippi State coach has put a qb in the NFL? Your beloved Jackie sure didn't in 13 years. I agree that it hurts us, but criticizing Croom for not putting a quarterback in the NFL when he has been here four years is beyond ridiculous.
 
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DowntownDawg

Redshirt
May 28, 2007
3,494
0
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...and the only way out of it for us is for Croom to figure that out. He doesn't have to abandon the WCO altogether. He can still use elements of it, and hopefully he's going more toward doing that. We'll see.
 
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RebelBruiser

Redshirt
Aug 21, 2007
7,349
0
0
I agree. Croom needs to simplify his playbook when it comes to the WCO and keep WCO elements to a minimum along with working in some other forms of offense. Honestly, Carroll appears to be a decent option QB. If he'd work on some sort of option offense where he mixes in some WCO elements for the passing game, it would probably do well.

I've always said that the key at the college level is the ability to adapt your system/schemes to your personnel. Only a few schools are going to be able to recruit well enough to make their personnel fit their system. The rest have to be able to adapt. If you have Brent Schaeffer or Pat White, you don't run a pro style offense, you run a spread option. If you have Peyton Manning or Jimmy Clausen, you don't run a spread option, you run a pro style offense.

And as I stated, in very few cases will the WCO be successful consistently at the college level. A hybrid form of it might have some success though.

I contend that the popularity of the spread lately is mainly due to its adaptability. You can run a WVU style spread or a Texas Tech style spread and really not change your formations and base sets.

A good example of the needed simplicity of offenses is the whole WildHog thing. There is a piece out there with David Lee explaining how Arkansas used it. Essentially, they only had 3 basic plays I believe, and everything else out of that set was just a simple variation off the 3 basic plays. With limited practice time, that's the best way to be able to have success offensively. Keep it simple.

The whole WildHog set itself is basically just a spread option set. I think Croom would do good to use Carroll in that type of set and just incorporate a few more passing options and not quite as many QB run options.
 
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muddawgs33

Redshirt
Aug 28, 2007
822
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The primary reason your offense hasn't been working is that I think the WCO is too complex for the college level.
Click to expand...
I disagree... I think the reason that it hasn't been working is the fact that we had an incompetent QB for 3 years and terrible playcalling and Carroll coming in as a freshman looked light years ahead of fur boy who had been here 4 years.

That's just the thing. The WCO was designed as an offense to allow a team with a less talented QB and possibly less athletic WRs to be able to excel. The theory behind the WCO is that it's supposed to allow you to still score points even without a lot of talent.
Click to expand...

Where the hell did you read that at? WCO equals less talented QB and WR's. I guess Montana, Young, Rice and Taylor would disagree with you. The WCO was designed to move the chains while making defenses frustrated by running and throwing short passes so that you could catch the defense off guard by throwing a deep pass in the mix ever so often.

Do you need a strong armed QB to run the WCO? Hell no but that doesn't mean that they are less talented. WCO QB has to be accurate and smart with the football. Do the WR's have to be speed demons? Hell no, but they have to be able to run precise routes and get good separation and have excellent hands along with being fearless over the middle. Playcalling has alot to do with the success of the WCO and our playcalling sucks *** except for the Kentucky game. For whatever reason, someone either bumped their head or was high during the game, but called a great game, well for the 1st half. We got too conservative in the 2nd, but with our defense playing so well, we could afford too. </p>

</p>
Recruiting will help somewhat with your offense obviously, but I think as long as Croom is running the WCO, you'll only see it truly clicking when on occasion you have a very experienced offense that's been together for a couple years. The problem with that is that you only get 4 years with players, and those type of seasons will only come along every few years or so.</p>
Click to expand...
I think that's a bunch of crap too. Carroll proves that crap wrong, considering he was the QB for the Kentucky game.
You need the right personel and good play calling. Play calling is the main reason you won't see us truly click consistently unless it changes this year which I doubt.
 
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