For those that feel healthcare is a right...at what point in our country's
- Thread starter rog1187
- Start date
I don't think healthcare is a right....I think it's a public good, like education, and should be something we support in order to have a better nation.
Are public libraries a right?
Are public roads a right?
Are public schools a right?
Or are they just what's really best for everybody in the country?
No.
And neither are those other things, but they are good ideas because they strengthen our nation.
If it's something they don't believe in.....it's wrong because the founders didn't literally WRITE it into the Constitution (and therefore unAmerican). If it's something they believe in......well then it's all about the ESSENCE of the Constitution, and the founders INTENT and their personal religious beliefs (and therefore what America is meant to be).
But they love, love, love to bash democrats and liberals for their hypocrisy.
I'm not going to comment on public libraries but how are our public roads and schools doing right now? Does it give you confidence that healthcare run by government will be any better? The public good is better served by our government staying out of it, government has proven over and over, VA care etc, that they are incompetent at running almost everything.
Ridiculous! The one thing I wish we all could begin to see.....WE run the government! Or else you have no faith in the Constitution
I have no clue......but I'm solidly in the camp who believes that, in this society, healthcare absolutely is (or should be) a right. And if that's not the case simply because the founding fathers didn't put that in their Constitution (like they did owning a gun), they (IMO) missed the boat.
We don't run the government. Establishment politicians run it, and tell us what to think through the media.
Don't forget the public and private positions. Link
You folks on the Left do the exact same thing implying things into the Constitution as obligations for an expanded activist anti-Religious Government to fill while ignoring the very limits and restrictions that document specifically put on expanded overreaching Government because all it does is perpetuate it's own Godless existence while choking off our God given Freedoms!
If we're going to have an argument about the "public good" and what's best for our Nation, let's start with staying within the limits of Leviathan Government spelled out in that Constitution.
All of the other stuff you Leftists are constantly adding to "make us a better place" are choking us to near death under a pile of debt we may never be able to pay off!
There are elections, we can remove those establish politicians and motivate members of Congress to legislate according to our desire.
What gets me the most: Trump loyalists see him as the savior because he's not a politician, but I bet most of them are registered under party affiliation, and vote for local reps based on their party and no other factors.
You summarily reject Christians for no other reason than their Faith. You don't want them anywhere near the decision makers of Government, especially if their Faith motivates their thoughts or actions.
So in your world it's OK to be just "political" as long as you're on the Left and keep your Religion out of it?
Last edited:
Ridiculous, the government runs us. We have people trying to make this a country of no laws, giving away money that the recipient never earned. when somebody tries to end a program that isn't needed somebody screams they might lose their job.Big deal.
My privacy isn't specifically written into the Constitution either. It's a right.
But I said it's not a right, imo, it's a public good.
I just fond it funny, that when we talk about military: the right says "it's for the safety of the nation - it's NOT socialism", but healthcare can't possibly fall under that same argument. And then the "it's not a right, as specifically written in the Constitution" argument comes out. Bottom line, most of you just want to protect your precious money.
Really boomer? Does that apply to those of us who prefer to let Faith and morality guide our legislation?
Or do our desires have to conform to "Leftist" ideology?
The Military is the arm of Government used to protect the integrity of the Nation which is something Government is specifically set up under the Constitution to do!
Where is providing Health Insurance to folks who either won't or can't pay crazy high prices for their health care services written into that same document? (Constitution)
Or retirement Insurance, or food stamps, or home heating assistance, or money for Abortions, or iPhones, or rental & housing assistance, or Education, or any of the other social experiments cooked up by the Left to "make us a better society"?
And you replace them with another establishment politician, they just have a different letter after their name. What do you think Trump being elected was all about? That he's the model Republican? pffffft
Another "public school sucks" response........
Here are some FACTS:
...over 80 percent of American employers were satisfied with new hires' education. Only 5 percent expected future increases in skill requirements. Nonetheless, illustrating the power of ideology over experience, employers who find little fault with their own workers' preparation frequently complain that the schools are failing, just as the public consistently tells pollsters that schools fail while the schools that their own children attend are doing just fine.
In 1979, college graduates earned 38 percent more than high school grads. Today it's 57 percent more.
True, average Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT) scores have declined to 899 (math and verbal combined) in 1992 from 937 in 1972. Yet this favorite fact of headline writers tells a very partial story. Last year, 29 percent of SAT takers (students planning to go to college) were minority students, more than double the 13 percent 20 years earlier. In 1992, 43 percent of test takers ranked in the top fifth of their high school classes. In 1972, 48 percent were in the top fifth, a more elite group. In California, for example, where over half the test takers were minority students in 1992, only 66 percent came from homes where only English was spoken, and 20 percent spoke English as a second language, up from 13 percent just six years earlier. These shifts unsurprisingly produce lower average scores. Declines in average SAT scores stem mostly from expansion in the test takers' base, adding more disadvantaged students to a pool that earlier included mostly privileged students.
While average scores have gone down, minority scores have gone up. From 1976 (when the College Board began tracking group scores) to 1992, black student scores went from 686 to 737; Mexican-origin scores went from 781 to 797; and Puerto Rican scores went from 765 to 772. White scores declined, but this is due, at least in part, to the broadened social class base of white test takers. In 1976, the number of white test takers was equal to only 19 percent of the 17-year-old white population. In 1992, it was 25 percent, a less elite group.
Contrary to a cherished myth, American science and engineering performance surpasses our competitors. Of every 10,000 Americans, 7.4 have bachelor's degrees in physical science or engineering. Japan has 7.3 per 10,000 and West Germany, 6.7. American performance continues to improve: in 1987, 7 percent of 22-year-olds had a science or engineering degree, up from less than 5 percent in 1970. Only 6.5 percent of 22-year-olds in Japan and 4 percent of 22-year-olds in Germany had science or engineering degrees in 1987. Our advantage stems from greater commitment to educate women. In America, 35 percent of new scientists are women, compared with Japan's 10 percent.
http://prospect.org/article/myth-public-school-failure
At what level - if it's true that the constitution implied healthcare as a right, should they get the same level of care available during the writing of the constitution?
How did you get to work this morning?
Imagine if we didn't have public roads ... there would be no roads at all, or every one of them would be privately owned and you'd pay a toll every time you made a turn.
Our public schools are slipping but can be corrected. It is still way better to have them to have everything be private.
Just imagine that for a second ... roads, libraries, schools, parks, etc. everything private?
We all benefited from the public school system when we attended WVU ... assuming most of us here did so. Imagine the barriers if all colleges were private.
That's not good for the country. There would be almost no path from poverty to prosperity.
You say that as if I should be ashamed of it. I live correctly in the confines of what I was dealt and I've tried to exceed the expectations put forth for me. I'm compensated well and I'm fine with helping out and putting in my "fair share". What I'm not ok with is my "fair share" being double what the median income of 2 families are. I don't feel my responsibilities include the harder I work and more compensation I receive be viewed as a responsibility to offset those who made poor decisions in life and refuse to live within the correct confines of society while refusing to better themselves.
I don't ***** about paying taxes for schools my kids don't use. I don't ***** about infrastructure, Gov't, and military spending. I don't ***** about SS tax and Medicaid/Medicare for the elderly.
I do have a real problem with paying for Gov't programs requiring more Gov't oversight, and compounding growth and more spending. I do have a problem with paying for healthcare for able bodied employable people who made poor decisions in life. I understand by not doing so, it creates additional problems. I do have a problem with the creation of a dependent society. Lastly, I do have a problem with people that believe Gov't can do anything more efficiently than industry. The reality is the latter just isn't the case.
No. But just be honest about why, don't make it into some constitutional debate. It's your country too
I don't think you should be ashamed at all. And you're not making it into a constitutional issue, or really even about socialism....for you it's about efficiency and the effectiveness of fixing the problem....that's a legitimate argument. I think the costs trickle up, enough to warrant change. but it's not just my nation....
You mean the article is racist?
Facts are facts. Minorities, especially ESL (English as Second Language) groups, are taking these standardized tests and are doing so in English. Now, does that sound like a good idea? Testing someone in a foreign language? How do you think they are going to score?
I'd argue food, housing, clothing, transportation even entertainment are equally as important as "Health care".
If you don't eat, how long do you stay alive? No shelter? How long do you survive?
Why isn't the Left arguing all of these things as "rights" like they are pushing for Health care?
On second thought, maybe those are the next to be claimed as "rights" by the Left, and of course Government would run it all.
If you don't eat, how long do you stay alive? No shelter? How long do you survive?
Why isn't the Left arguing all of these things as "rights" like they are pushing for Health care?
On second thought, maybe those are the next to be claimed as "rights" by the Left, and of course Government would run it all.
How come we're OK with private housing then? If it works for where we live, why not how we educate our kids?
We Worship privately as we choose, why can't we learn the same way?
Why does the Government have exclusive access to teach our kids?
Let's see here......eating and shelter......the federal government did determine them to be "rights" and that's why there are federal restrictions covered when certain individuals were not allowed to eat, shop, or live in specific areas or places...(Civil Rights bills).....
So, since I debunked your examples again, what's next? [thumbsup]
If you want to homeschool your damn kids, then do it. Nobody is stopping you. For all you haters out there, if you don't like public schools, then do not attend. But stop trying to make changes to the public school system and force it on the MAJORITY of Americans that DO NOT want changes.
So then the Government should be paying for our food and shelter?
At least you're honest.
Who said anything about stopping anyone from attending Public schools? We already have Private schools to get away from their failures.
We just want to give more Parents that option (to get away from them). That's what competition and choice is all about.