You are really dumb here. Where did I say "pay for"? I didn't. But I did say the government does mandate non-discrimination in privately owned businesses and housing units.
For those that feel healthcare is a right...at what point in our country's
- Thread starter rog1187
- Start date
You are really dumb here. Where did I say "pay for"? I didn't. But I did say the government does mandate non-discrimination in privately owned businesses and housing units.
I love how you keep using the word "failures" when talking about public schools. What about the private schools that are failing? No mention.......
We get it. You hate public schools. They screwed your life over.......
Private schools that are failing or do fail don't stay open very long. Parents who pay them to do the job they're collecting money for do not accept failure, they demand excellence which is why they work very well most of the time unlike the Public schools who have no such demands placed on them and deliver poor results accordingly.
Not mine (My Parents sent me to Catholic schools) but many other poor Parents & their kids trapped in them.
Then you are speaking Russian and I'm speaking Mandarin. The theme of the thread is what are rights?
As in is Health care as a right?
I posited food and shelter and clothing as legitimate necessities of Life to be argued for as rights that the Left chooses not to, so then I asked "why not"?
I'm arguing those are at least as important if not more so than "Health care", so why aren't we subsidizing those or arguing them as "rights" too similar to Health care?(which I do not see as a "right" such as another Government entitlement)
Whatever off road track you're on you missed the turn a few posts ago. Check your GPS and "re route".
Last edited:
This is about healthcare and the fiasco that govt creates with medicaid, very wasteful, SS disability, payouts to dead people,. You don't hear me complain that my taxes go to roads, public schools, etc. I complain about our government thinks it has a right to tell me I have to pay for maternity coverage at age 62. Government by nature is wasteful and taking on healthcare is a recipe for disaster. I've been proven right, it's going to be a disaster and cause businesses not to hire and expand.
We had a choice to attend WVU, and they (admin) competed against other institutions for our dollars. No one offered WVU as our only choice, and we were free to leave it if it did not serve our needs in the competitive marketplace of higher education.
That is not the model with primary education run by the Government but it should be.
I have always made this comparison between schools and athletics:
Can every child throw a 99 mph fastball? Even if they begin training and throwing programs and such since they were extremely young? Nope.
Can every child dunk a basketball? Even if they spend the time required to train, weights, etc.? Nope.
I could go on and on with it, but facts are this: regardless of what you or anyone else believe, some kids just don't learn very well. Imagine that! Now, where do you think the vast majority of failing students go? Yep, public schools. Now, it's easy to label a public school as "failing"......
My fix on this whole "public schools are failing" argument is to add incentives to get more parental involvement. Examples:
Tax credits for parents whose child scores well on tests.......
For low-income families who receive government assistance, take away some of their perks if their child scores low......
Parent involvement is a part, big part for sure. We need a better system in which educators are held accountable. We need less homework.
Finland, schools ranked #1 in the world, have a law preventing private schools.
OK so chew on this. Private schools and Charter schools open up in minority neighborhoods and take those same kids who Public school administrators insist can't learn and who are in fact failing and regularly turn them into academic scholars.
George Bush called your attitude the "soft bigotry of low expectations". I didn't support his "no child left behind" solution but he was right about the bigotry or flat out racism inherent in the idea that all kids trapped in failing Public schools are "stupid" and can't learn.
So if you are correct, the Private schools should experience the same rates of failure with these underprivileged kids right?
Well they don't. So why do you think that is based on what you just posted?
Last edited:
Think about what you are advocating here and then go accuse us on the Right of being "racist"?
I say demand excellence and set up a program that can drive it from those kids like they'd get in a Private or Charter school.
They are not stupid, they are trapped in a bad system designed for them to be mediocre at best.
You'd probably prefer them to stay trapped there. Less competition for your job right?
Wow, pretty simple explanation there. Private schools, and charter schools, do NOT take the same standardized testing systems that public schools have to. Private and charter schools do NOT have to live under the same federal government red tape, also. Force private and charter schools to take the same tests and to live under the same federal and state government regulations.....then we shall see the "true" numbers.
For example, what if two teams were playing basketball. Team A's 3-point line is 20'.....but Team B's 3-point line is 25'. Yeah, that would be fair.....
Who said they were "stupid"? Secondly, are you stating that EVERY CHILD can achieve at above-average to high standards? If you believe this, then why doesn't every kid make the Big Leagues, NBA, NFL, etc.?
If their Public schools are the only choice, they can't afford to have them failing.
That's why they succeed my friend. No heavy handed Government. Remove that from the Public schools and they'd be able to compete and succeed too.
That's the whole idea...getting Government out of education (and everything else it's screwing up)
I'm saying every child can learn. There are no "stupid" kids. Not all will achieve the same level of success academically (that's impossible) but they don't have to graduate in mass numbers not being able to read and write above a 6th grade level either.
The US Military is your example refuting this. They take in all types with all sorts of ability and turn every one of them into effective fighting Men (and Women)
Why?
They demand excellence, and don't accept failure as an excuse.
Are all soldiers the same?
No.
Are they all effective in their training and ability to fight?
Yes.
They're best in the World.
(they have competition by the way)...ie: Russia, China, North Korea, Isis, and all of our sworn enemies.
So the moral of the story is...let the Government do what it is set up to do best. They run our Armed forces better than anyone else because that's what they are empowered to do.
They do a lousy job of running our elementary & primary education because they are not set up well to do that, and they can't do it without competitive pressure, or when know nothing Government bureaucrats try to run it.
You are amazing. You disrespect government ran things, like public education or health care, but commend the military which is GOVERNMENT RAN!!!!! You can't have it both ways.
Again, you keep saying "failing" and "lousy" to describe public education, yet you said you attended a private school. Are you basing your information off what OTHERS say? Come on, man. You can't take what everyone says as the truth. My kids attend a public school. BOTH are doing great. BOTH receive a great education. BOTH are achieving well. I attended a public school, too. I went to college, Dean's List, and Master's Degree. All this from a rural school system with few college graduates and a constant label as a "failing" school.
Again, who said anything about kids being "stupid"? Only YOU!
And once more, you keep lumping ALL schools in to your generalizations. Is it your belief that most every graduate reads at a 6th grade level? Come on, man. Get off your soapbox.
It is my contention that Public school kids (especially minority kids in inner cities) do not read much above that level even after attending school for 12 years. I can post stats but you are too ideologically wedded to Government run schools to try and convince you otherwise.
But Black Parents already know this, that is why school choice vouchers are supported by them by more than 85%.
Why don't you support them?
Really?
So who wrote this in post # 50 of this thread?
"some kids just don't learn very well. Imagine that! Now, where do you think the vast majority of failing students go? Yep, public schools"
So if you aren't suggesting "kids who don't learn well" are forced into Public schools then exactly how should I have interpreted that remark?
I think you're calling them stupid...what are you calling them?
You and your kids are the exception. However I live in Atlanta, which spends more per capita educating its Public school kids than any other district in this state.
They are pathetic, and they are not unique among inner city Public schools. LA Unified, Chicago, Baltimore, Washington DC, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Detroit, almost ANY other major city has the same poor track record of dilapidated run down failing inner city schools.
It's heart crushing to see those beautiful kids trapped in such squalor and futility.
I mentioned the Military in my example because unlike Public schools it is not run by pencil pushing bureaucrats. It is run by trained professionals empowered to drive efficiency and excellence out of those recruits regardless of their ability.
Failure is not accepted.
Public schools are not run that way, but most Private schools are. Discipline, commitment to excellence, results measured and tested until proficiency is achieved.
Public schools could be run the same way, but you'd have to get the bureaucrats, Teacher Unions, and politicians out of the way and put Parents and Teachers in charge to do what needs to be done to drive those kids into success.
As long as those folks are left standing in the doors with their arms crossed like Democrat George Wallace did stopping Black students from attending U of A back in the 60's, you will continue to see the same dismal results in the vast majority of Public schools.
Last edited:
WHAT?!??!!?! Just because a kid "doesn't learn well" does not mean they are "stupid". Come on, man. Wow. I don't apologize for saying that there is a group of students at every school that perform poorly, either by choice or genetics. Nothing that you, I, or any teacher could do will change this.
And I challenged your assumptions about their learning ability by giving you the example of Privately run and Charter schools which are often set up in those same poor neighborhoods taking in those those same kids and raising their achievement test scores far above what Public school apologists such as yourself thought they were capable of.
So that's the attitude you take with your students?
Then you wonder why they underachieve?
So you are willing to go on record as saying that 100% of all students in private schools that were labeled "failing" in public schools achieve at high levels and graduate from those private schools???? Be careful.........
Regardless of what you believe, private schools "fail" students too.
I never said they didn't. I said they don't stay open very long passing mediocre students because paying Parents demand excellence measured by results.
Why can't Public schools expect the same?
Why don't they?
I'm also saying that the vast majority of Private schools achieve at higher levels than Public schools, and their students graduate with higher overall rates of literacy and academic competency than those kids who attend Public schools.
There are of course exceptions, but that is the general rule and why most Parents when they can afford it choose to send their kids to Privately run or Charter schools.
I'm for giving more Parents (especially poor ones) that same option for their kids which is why I'm such a big proponent for vouchers and competition for Public schools.
I think the good ones will be fine, but just like the failing Private schools the bad ones need to close and be replaced by better Private ones or better Public ones.
Open up Education to competition, and give Parents choices like we have when selecting a College. Not every College is Harvard or Yale, but there are plenty of WVU's offering quality education at a decent price among those choices.
I favor that model for lower education too.
Last edited:
You kind of make the case about Gov't being worse than industry. I agree. Gov't controlled anything is horribly inefficient.
You want to see the true test? How about matriculation to college percentages? The private school where my kids go has a 99% matriculation rate that they can substantiate with QBD.
I knew you worked in the school system. My mother was an educator and then an administrator. I went to Private school. #reality
You are like Devos. You have no experience in public schools yet you're an "expert" on the subject.
Do you know what goes on in a public school? First off, retention of students at the elementary and middle grade levels are completely up to the parents. If their child fails, they can still be "passed on" to the next grade simply because Mommy and Daddy don't want them to be held back. They can do this because there are no "credits" for completing coursework at these levels, like in high school. So kids are tested below grade level in 2nd grade, and the parents don't want them held back, then they go on to 3rd grade material and cannot achieve at that level either....and so on and so on.
Also, schools are reluctant to keep older kids behind because of possible scenarios of having older, more mature kids in the same classroom with younger kids. For example, if a kid is in the 6th grade and reads at a 2nd grade level, having him in a 2nd grade classroom would be good for him until he is "caught up". However, that will never happen. Instead, they expect the teacher to teach at different levels during a 50 minute time span to dozens of levels.
Finally, the private vs public school debate is arguing apples to oranges. You make the bold claims that private schools take "failing public school students" and turn them in to scholars. It's easy to make that claim when the statistics are either skewed by not being assessed the same as public schools or no true statistics to back up this claim. Also, private school enrollment accounts for only 10% of American students. And a big guess at which socio-economic class has the majority of private students?? Yep......not the poor. So, when these private schools are evaluated and assessed (bogusly I might add), they are assessing students that have private tutors and see college in their future and are academically motivated for such a life, due to their wealth.
Again, take a kid off the street that has no money or time (let's say they have to get a part-time job which takes time away) to develop a skill and compare them to a person, of the same age, who has the time and money to develop their skills every day through training. When they are evaluated, who do you think will have the higher grade????
What? You don't know me, nor my job. My kids attend a public school and I'm damn proud they do! #schoolpride
And, being honest, if that school system was good enough to pay your mom for her job then she should have thought it was "good enough" to send you there. Just saying.
Everything you're arguing here in this post is about "social engineering" not educating.
I went to a Parochial school who's only objective was to pass me onto the next grade after I achieved mastery of the subject matter needed to pass. They didn't care if I had to repeat that grade 5 times!
My age didn't matter, or my social class status didn't matter. My education did.
What you laid out here is the exact problem with Public Government run education. It's all about socialization rather than intellectual advancement.
They can't respond to an intellectually stimulating environment because they are too busy meeting quotas, counting heads, and protecting the jobs of Union members and administrators.
To hell with the kids actually learning...they just need warm bodies to keep the payrolls current.
Read this as a prime example:
http://www.georgiapolicy.org/2015/04/the-atlanta-public-schools-cheating-scandal/
It is easy to make that claim because the Private and/or Charter schools often test the same basic skills that the Public schools do. (many of them ARE in fact Public schools!)
The State standards Private schools must meet are the same standards many Public schools are measured by, and the Private schools often add to those.
You make excuses for the failures of the Public schools, but you provide only alibis for the success Private schools regularly experience.
Yet you cannot argue for the success of Public education over the Private or Charter schools. You know you can't, so you grasp at straws to defend the Government run schools despite their poor performance and results in direct comparison to Private schools and Charter schools.
If you believe in Public education fine. All I'm saying is open them up to the same competition you likely face through your employer for your job, customers, market share, and ultimately your measured success.
Competition is the fuel that drives our free enterprise system. It should not be the exclusive providence of Government in educating our most precious commodities operating without it.
Our kids will face competitive pressures throughout their lives. I'm saying Parents should also be free to make choices based on educational competition to find the best fit for their kids' success.
This is non-stop because you refuse to address what you claim are my "alibis". My point about socio-economic background has validity, and is accurate in my assumptions to the performance of private schools. Are there success stories in private schools? Absolutely. There are also success stories in public schools. I remind you that it was a Republican (Bush) who is credited for the bureaucratic red tape that has strangled public schools since 2001. In fact, for true "conservatives", you all should not even be entertaining a national department for education since it isn't in the Constitution.
Know what? I agree with you! I hated "no child left behind" because it was more Big Government one size fits all bureaucratic gobbledygook.
I do support elimination of the Department of Education because it doesn't teach any kids, it only pays bureaucrats to gum up the works of Teachers & Parents who are trying to do that and are underpaid for it in my opinion.
I favor merit based pay, Teacher competency testing and skills assessment/training, School choice vouchers, locally based Parent-Teacher school boards (minus Unions) an end to tenure, and local school board's ability to fire incompetent, unmotivated or non productive teachers.
An end to "social promotions" in favor of academic achievement determining advancement, Mentoring, tutoring, experimental classrooms, homeschooling, Montessori style teaching, virtual classrooms, teaching consortiums, Charter schools, Magnet schools, Religious based schools, trade schools, technical schools, & school/business partnerships.
In short I favor opening up education of our kids to ALL possibilities and true competition as an alternative to the Government only run model so our kids and their Parents have the most choices available to pick the exact educational models that fit their particular goals and desires.
In my opinion the more you get Government bureaucrats out of education and replace them with Teachers and Parents, the better all of our schools will become including the Public schools.
Last edited:
There is a lot more that goes into that 99% than simply the quality of the education.
99% of my friends from HS went on to college ... but I'd say only about 50% from my graduating class did. Home life and the emphasis placed on education has as much to do with who goes to college as does anything else. Also, I'd say that if the parents are paying for private school K-12 that the kid doesn't have many worries about how they are going to pay for college either.
In all, I'd say that private education probably is better because every kid in there has parents that value education that highly.
Conversely, another way to look at it would be as an administrator of the school district, she was uniquely aware of the disadvantages related to public schools in the district vs sending me to a private school. Your comment was straight union speak. Just saying.