Forget it.

[MBRO]

already admitted my post was not clear and made in haste.

thinking was more along the lines of unhealthy people who have made poor lifestyle decisions, smokers for example. Obviously some health issues, as it relates to our topic, are not decisions. Cancer, also obviously, was not part of our discussion.

Too many sodas? Only 90 minutes of exercise a week? Six hours of sleep per night? Not taking advantage of the opportunity to talk with a mental health professional when one is provided by your company as an employee benefit? Breaking the speed limit?

That's a slippery slope. We all make poor lifestyle decisions that adversely affect our health.

 

[clempzenbill]

Seems like a lot of words to whitewash the fact that we have lost 100,000 people with no end in sight.

Lol at no end in site! Do you do any of your own research? The daily death toll is going down and has been. 82% of US counties has had a total of two Covid deaths or less. The virus is disappearing so fast in the UK researchers are saying they might not have enough infected people to do meaningful Clinical trials with a new vaccine. Did you know a huge percentage of the supposed death toll is people who died with the virus and not FROM the virus? Did you know over 40% of the deaths are in nursing homes? 99.5% of the people that die already have comorbidity of two factors or more. Twelve children under 14 have died from this and 11 had underlying conditions. This thing doesn’t kill healthy people under 60 at even the same rate as auto accidents. This is the point most of us have discovered over the last two months. This is all a gigantic mistake, it should go down as the worst public policy disaster ever. JP Morgan just came out with a study saying the lockdown had almost no effect on the spread.

 

[Joe Cobb]

I am not discounting 100K deaths.

But if you aren't out protesting fast food restaurants, soft drink suppliers and cattle farmers for contributing to heart disease, I think it is somewhat hypocritical.

Did the shutdown slow the spread? There is no data to support or deny that claim.

However the first positive cases (that we know of) were in January. Schools didn't close until end of March. What schools were identified as a "hot spot" for the spread of COVID-19? It had over 2 months to 'incubate' in schools.

The second issue is that trying to have a 'critical' discussion about the data is so polarizing. To question is to "not care" about 100K deaths.

 

[Cloud 9]

I am not discounting 100K deaths.

But if you aren't out protesting fast food restaurants, soft drink suppliers and cattle farmers for contributing to heart disease, I think it is somewhat hypocritical.

Did the shutdown slow the spread? There is no data to support or deny that claim.

However the first positive cases (that we know of) were in January. Schools didn't close until end of March. What schools were identified as a "hot spot" for the spread of COVID-19? It had over 2 months to 'incubate' in schools.

The second issue is that trying to have a 'critical' discussion about the data is so polarizing. To question is to "not care" about 100K deaths.

Please go back and fix your math.. It's wrong.

 

[bizlat]

I am not sure I understand what any branch of government could have actually done to better manage Covid-19. I know both the left and right want to take political advantage of the disease. I am sure hindsight is better than foresight, but someone help me here. I agree the government could have sounded better. But what could government have done differently as the death count went up?

Im not one to look back in hindsight & call someone stupid if I didn't have a better idea beforehand, but the government paying extra for corona treatment was not smart. It screws up the data. And, bad data is great for the few, but screws the many.

I know there are reasons why they did that, but protecting the quality of the data is more important imo.

 

[Joe Cobb]

So did OP come back to correct his original post or can we just fake math in a post and just pretend its true?

I edited it as forgot to move the decimal and said as much.

 

[Transference]

I am not discounting 100K deaths.

But if you aren't out protesting fast food restaurants, soft drink suppliers and cattle farmers for contributing to heart disease, I think it is somewhat hypocritical.

Did the shutdown slow the spread? There is no data to support or deny that claim.

However the first positive cases (that we know of) were in January. Schools didn't close until end of March. What schools were identified as a "hot spot" for the spread of COVID-19? It had over 2 months to 'incubate' in schools.

The second issue is that trying to have a 'critical' discussion about the data is so polarizing. To question is to "not care" about 100K deaths.

You're OP had a total disregard for decimal points, and basic multiplication. You may want to fix that before trying to have a "critical" discussion with anyone.

 

[DClemsonTiger]

While we are on the subject of it only being a problem for those with comorbidies....

@tigertommy1 - I know you are a man who occasionally likes a wager. What’s your over/under on the % of TI posters that are either BMI > 30 (obese - you may find these weights surprisingly low) or have hypertension?

 

[tallulahtiger30319]

76% of Americans have at least one of the underlying conditions that they are referring to. You people need to quit making out like there's only a few people or a select group that have these underlying conditions

Right. But answer me this. Why does the entire country, our entire population have to close to protect this subset of people? Can the subset not be responsible for protecting themselves? If I'm the one with the underlying concerns, I'm 100% protecting myself and sure as hell not depending on others to protect me. Do you see what I mean? I don't get it.

 

[Cloud 9]

You guys trip me out with this trying to prove everyone wrong and how we should just not worry about going out and people who have underlying conditions should just stay at home for the next year...

Here are the underlying conditions in all ages that have proven to kill people with Covid..

Asthma
Cardio Vascular disease
Autoimmune Disease
Hypertension
Immune Suppression
Metabolic disease
Neurological Disease
Obesity

Pretty sure here in the US that covers about 60% of the population.

I'm all in on trying to get back to some normalcy and keep the economy booming but we all need to make sacrifices and somehow protect each other while making sure we are good economically.

 

[DClemsonTiger]

Right. But answer me this. Why does the entire country, our entire population have to close to protect this subset of people? Can the subset not be responsible for protecting themselves? If I'm the one with the underlying concerns, I'm 100% protecting myself and sure as hell not depending on others to protect me. Do you see what I mean? I don't get it.

Well, first, shutting down is done at the state level, not a federal level - but I also find your argument to have an odd framing.

You seem to acknowledge that the subset is 76% of people but appear to argue that we should instead do something to further the remaining 24%. And we are talking about increasing risk of illness/death to the 76%. Do you see how this is relatively unconvincing?

I think there’s probably a more persuasive version of this argument out there, but I also don’t like the idea of living in a society where we are OK throwing the vulnerable to the wolves. Individualism has its merits, but also its limitations.

 

[PawsFan]

Maybe we should all walk away quietly from this thread. There are some good threads bashing UGA that could use our help.

 

[Cloud 9]

While we are on the subject of it only being a problem for those with comorbidies....

@tigertommy1 - I know you are a man who occasionally likes a wager. What’s your over/under on the % of TI posters that are either BMI > 30 (obese - you may find these weights surprisingly low) or have hypertension?

I'm going at least 50% on TI are obese.

 

[tigertommy1]

While we are on the subject of it only being a problem for those with comorbidies....

@tigertommy1 - I know you are a man who occasionally likes a wager. What’s your over/under on the % of TI posters that are either BMI > 30 (obese - you may find these weights surprisingly low) or have hypertension?

Don't know. But I would imagine that all of TI would probably be a good representative of the population as a whole? Would say over 50%, at least, have underlying health issues, and not just obese.

Obese is what, maybe 20% of the population? Maybe even a good bit more?

 

[DClemsonTiger]

Don't know. But I would imagine that all of TI would probably be a good representative of the population as a whole? Would say over 50%, at least, have underlying health issues, and not just obese.

Obese is what, maybe 20% of the population? Maybe even a good bit more?

Try double that for adults

 

[shortbus22]

Every thread goes the same... conservative says the numbers don't dictate we should still be closed. Then the libs come out in full force to bash, berate, ridicule, condemn with all of their might. Then the far right loons come in and muddy the waters the OP was wading through. Then the thread is moved to the round table.

The party of tolerance my ***.

 

[Kelbo]

Seems like a lot of words to whitewash the fact that we have lost 100,000 people with no end in sight.

Imagine that being a fact.

 

[jonalexand1]

hard to feel sorry for unhealthy people that have made bad decisions

they are reason our health care system is broken to begin with

I agree some people with issues like obesity and diabetes that make them high risk have those conditions due to laziness and poor habits. But do you really equate underlying conditions with bad decisions in general? 39 year old male here, in good physical condition. Eat well, athlete from a young age through early adulthood. I have a heart disease since birth as well as inherited high blood pressure. Separately, one of my identical twins (7 years old) was born with a rare lung disease. His twin brother is fine. Anything we should have done differently? Other conditions that put people in a high risk category are auto-immune issue, pregnancy, etc.

 

[KennyRogersRoasters]

Maybe there is a world where our federal government acted quickly enough in February and we didn't have to shut down the economy, but also were able to stop a majority of the deaths. Just spit balling here.

What measures should have been put in place to prevent those deaths and the economy from being shut down?

 

[deshaunwatson4]

hard to feel sorry for unhealthy people that have made bad decisions

they are reason our health care system is broken to begin with

dude there are so many underlying issues that come from genetics and not bad life decisions

 

[CU91ENGR]

hard to feel sorry for unhealthy people that have made bad decisions

they are reason our health care system is broken to begin with

Are you freaking kidding me? Do you think people choose to have hear problems, diabetes, lung deficiencies. Sure, a lot have issues that are caused by weight or smoking. But I know A TON of people that were born with diabetes, born with heart condition, born with asthma, born with kidney problems. One thing I have learned thru all of this pandemic: there's a lot of people on here that the only thing I have in common with is my love of Clemson...and that's about it.

 

[CU91ENGR]

Heck, the numbers are skewed now and just about any death is Covid related now. We had a friend who died in a car accident recently and was pronounced as Covid-19 related death.

You are full of sh%^. No way that happened. Sick of people like you just putting total garbage out there. How about proving this complete garbage you posted.

 

[tallulahtiger30319]

Stopped at your miscalculation of % tested. It’s 100 times .04

Well, in fairness to OP, he did ask for help with his math.

 

[Kelbo]

Too many sodas? Only 90 minutes of exercise a week? Six hours of sleep per night? Not taking advantage of the opportunity to talk with a mental health professional when one is provided by your company as an employee benefit? Breaking the speed limit?

That's a slippery slope. We all make poor lifestyle decisions that adversely affect our health.

Don't overthink it. Choices made to improve/maintain good health are simple in most cases. Discipline is a person's best friend.

 

[tigertommy1]

dude there are so many underlying issues that come from genetics and not bad life decisions

I agree some people with issues like obesity and diabetes that make them high risk have those conditions due to laziness and poor habits. But do you really equate underlying conditions with bad decisions in general? 39 year old male here, in good physical condition. Eat well, athlete from a young age through early adulthood. I have a heart disease since birth as well as inherited high blood pressure. Separately, one of my identical twins (7 years old) was born with a rare lung disease. His twin brother is fine. Anything we should have done differently? Other conditions that put people in a high risk category are auto-immune issue, pregnancy, etc.

already addressed these in the followup post

 

[CU91ENGR]

Right. But answer me this. Why does the entire country, our entire population have to close to protect this subset of people? Can the subset not be responsible for protecting themselves? If I'm the one with the underlying concerns, I'm 100% protecting myself and sure as hell not depending on others to protect me. Do you see what I mean? I don't get it.

Are you that dumb? I just said that 76% of Americans have an underlying condition. Does that sound like a subset?

 

[Spare Jock]

Well, in fairness to OP, he did ask for help with his math.

Wasn’t cracking on him. Just knew the math was off.

 

[Kelbo]

Are you that dumb? I just said that 76% of Americans have an underlying condition. Does that sound like a subset?

Just a side note...

Have you ever gotten laid?... and if so, do you remember what it was like? You're intense, i'll give you that.

 

[CU91ENGR]

Don't overthink it. Choices made to improve/maintain good health are simple in most cases. Discipline is a person's best friend.

And once again, people like you, BigTimeTiger, ForzeTiger, among others, prove to be total pieces of crap.

 

[76observer]

Seems like a lot of words to whitewash the fact that we have lost 100,000 people with no end in sight.

Tragic indeed but also important to remember the popular press prediction from models was 2-3 million dead in the US to 100,000 is quite a success from that standpoint even though still tragic.

 

[CU91ENGR]

Just a side note...

Have you ever gotten laid?... and if so, do you remember what it was like? You're intense, i'll give you that.

Yep, twice. Got two kids. You getting prepared for the flu season? I hear it's a real doozy....typically between 13,000 and 60,000 estimated to die from the flu. Good thing this coronavirus isn't as bad.

 

[Kelbo]

Yep, twice. Got two kids. You getting prepared for the flu season? I hear it's a real doozy....typically between 13,000 and 60,000 estimated to die from the flu. Good thing this coronavirus isn't as bad.

Healthy as a horse. I enjoy exercising discipline daily to keep this temple pristine. I'm sorry your adventures in relaxation ceased after the two kids. I've got two, myself.... I guess i'm lucky.

Cheers!

 

[Kelbo]

And once again, people like you, BigTimeTiger, ForzeTiger, among others, prove to be total pieces of crap.

A joint now/then might be your best option to relax.

 

[ArmyTiger27]

percent of TI members who've never exercised regularly in their lifetime.

> 60%?

 

[BigPapaWhit]

Many moons ago, I was warned not wearing a condom would have consequences. I did not wear a condom and now y'all have to pay for my off-springs' stupidity.

For some reason, I now choose to wear a mask.

Causation or correlation?

 

[pwjacks]

You are full of sh%^. No way that happened. Sick of people like you just putting total garbage out there. How about proving this complete garbage you posted.

Not replying about whether someone with a car accident was reported as a covid death, but there is little question the number of covid deaths is skewed. If a patient has covid and it is listed on their death certificate, it is recorded as a covid death. Check the CDC guidance. I was a on call with a critical care doctor yesterday. He told me stories about covid patients that will scare the crap out of you. Otherwise relatively healthy patient who end up with respiratory failure and they simply cannot correct it, no matter what they try. Life or death depends on the bodies ability to fix itself. With that said, those cases account for a small minority of "covid deaths". The majority die WITH Covid, not necessarily OF covid. But they are all counted. I've reviewed three nursing home patient records in the past month who all died OF covid. It is 100% impossible to say that they actually died of COVID. Did it exacerbate an underlying condition or hasten inevitable death? Probably, but proving that it caused their death is virtually impossible. And these were all reviewed by medical experts.

Are there deaths that are covid related or even caused by covid that aren't reported? Sure.

But it also a fact that people are dying at alarming rates from totally curable and treatable conditions. Can't say who, but there is a hospital in SC that had more cases of ruptured appendix admissions with deaths in two months than they have had in two years and this is a large hospital.

 

[ArmyTiger27]

You are full of sh%^. No way that happened. Sick of people like you just putting total garbage out there. How about proving this complete garbage you posted.

lol how can he prove it? scan in the death certificate?

 

[CU91ENGR]

Not replying about whether someone with a car accident was reported as a covid death, but there is little question the number of covid deaths is skewed. If a patient has covid and it is listed on their death certificate, it is recorded as a covid death. Check the CDC guidance. I was a on call with a critical care doctor yesterday. He told me stories about covid patients that will scare the crap out of you. Otherwise relatively healthy patient who end up with respiratory failure and they simply cannot correct it, no matter what they try. Life or death depends on the bodies ability to fix itself. With that said, those cases account for a small minority of "covid deaths". The majority die WITH Covid, not necessarily OF covid. But they are all counted. I've reviewed three nursing home patient records in the past month who all died OF covid. It is 100% impossible to say that they actually died of COVID. Did it exacerbate an underlying condition or hasten inevitable death? Probably, but proving that it caused their death is virtually impossible. And these were all reviewed by medical experts.

Are there deaths that are covid related or even caused by covid that aren't reported? Sure.

But it also a fact that people are dying at alarming rates from totally curable and treatable conditions. Can't say who, but there is a hospital in SC that had more cases of ruptured appendix admissions with deaths in two months than they have had in two years and this is a large hospital.

Taken straight from CDC:

Coronavirus disease deaths are identified using the ICD–10 code U07.1. Deaths are coded to U07.1 when coronavirus disease 2019 or COVID-19 are reported as a cause that contributed to death on the death certificate.

This does not say that the cause of death is to be classified as Covid-19 if they are found to have the virus. It says if the virus "contributed to death". Two completely different conditions.

The large majority of heathcare professionals say the deaths are being undercounted, not overcounted: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...y-higher-other-covid-stats-need-adjusting-too

 

[CU91ENGR]

lol how can he prove it? scan in the death certificate?

He can't because it isn't true. No medical professional is going to list a car accident death as a Covid-19 death. That is ridiculous.

 

[Emergence_rivals]

Seems like a lot of words to whitewash the fact that we have lost 100,000 people with no end in sight.

Lot of whining to whitewash the stampede of « 2.4 million MINIMUM deaths » Pushed by the experts and their scientistic models. More suicides this year than the sad 100,000 we see here. Those will no doubt be exacerbated by the confinement.

OP is right to be relieved.