From Scott's update, it sounds like some sort of additional player compensation
- Thread starter Seinfeld
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I agree with you, I think it's incredibly stupid. They are going about it the wrong way. It's still amateur sports. There needs to be an NFL minor league of some sort, where players can go get paid right out of high school if they are good enough and project well enough. NCAA lets the NFL and NBA completely **** them in the ***. MLB does it right, they are the model to copy. You want to be a one and done? Go JUCO. You want to go to school? Stay 3 years or turn 21. But ALL players should be eligible to be drafted after high school, or age 18, whatever it is. The NFL is the only organization that relies on the college game to do their work for them.
I don't care how much money the schools are making. They are NPO, after all. Is there corruption? I'm sure, but that's not the ideal situation. You can't pay college football players (at least the schools), because it won't end there. You think the colleges are raking in money? You should see the NFL. THAT is where the problem lies. All the hotshot athletes who only want to be paid end up in college because they really have no other option.
I don't care how much money the schools are making. They are NPO, after all. Is there corruption? I'm sure, but that's not the ideal situation. You can't pay college football players (at least the schools), because it won't end there. You think the colleges are raking in money? You should see the NFL. THAT is where the problem lies. All the hotshot athletes who only want to be paid end up in college because they really have no other option.
NFL minor league? Will never happen.
Players shouldn't get paid to go to college, but they should be getting 2 free meals a day EVERY DAY of the school year (as long as they're enrolled), either free housing OR a set amount of money to pay rent ON TOP of everything else they receive, and some walk around money that reflects the year 2013. They already get "paid" but it's only about $100 a week and that's for everything. I lived off $50 a week my senior year but I wasn't burning 6,000 calories a day.
A free education is an amazing deal, but we don't need to be making a free education a burden on these kids by making them live like peasants while they're doing it.
You're never going to take illegal benefits out of amateur sports, but my making it where kids don't HAVE to you'll reduce it dramatically. Even the kids who don't need it justify doing so because of the treatment they receive from the NCAA.
The second they start paying football players is the second the NCAA gets a lawsuit from every female athlete in the United States. You thought title 9 was some ****? Try making one sport's athletes get paid while no other sport's athletes get paid. There's not enough money in the world to pay every NCAA athlete.
Players shouldn't get paid to go to college, but they should be getting 2 free meals a day EVERY DAY of the school year (as long as they're enrolled), either free housing OR a set amount of money to pay rent ON TOP of everything else they receive, and some walk around money that reflects the year 2013. They already get "paid" but it's only about $100 a week and that's for everything. I lived off $50 a week my senior year but I wasn't burning 6,000 calories a day.
A free education is an amazing deal, but we don't need to be making a free education a burden on these kids by making them live like peasants while they're doing it.
You're never going to take illegal benefits out of amateur sports, but my making it where kids don't HAVE to you'll reduce it dramatically. Even the kids who don't need it justify doing so because of the treatment they receive from the NCAA.
The second they start paying football players is the second the NCAA gets a lawsuit from every female athlete in the United States. You thought title 9 was some ****? Try making one sport's athletes get paid while no other sport's athletes get paid. There's not enough money in the world to pay every NCAA athlete.
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These are the two arguments that I struggle with more than anything else
1. "There's so much money in college football that it's ridiculous that the players aren't getting a piece of the pie"
They are getting a piece of the pie. They're getting a free ride through the best time of their life, unbelievable facilities and hands on training to improve their skill, and a platform like no other to reach their ultimate goal of making the big leagues one day. It boggles my mind as to how under-appreciated those last two seem to always be. Aside from that, so there are people out there making a lot more money off of college football than the players? Ok... my company's executives make a lot more money than I do. Much like the players, that doesn't mean that I'm not important or that my role isn't one of the ones that makes the business's gears turn, but I agreed to a certain level of compensation to do the job that I do and college football players do the exact same. That doesn't have to always mean straight cash.
2. "College athletes just need a little more money to cover the true cost of college"
For ones on partial scholarships, ok... I'm with you. For college football players? Horseshit. These guys are already getting loads more than what I did when I was on several academic scholarships at State and while I did decide to work part time a couple semesters, I did that only so that I could afford to pay the note on my Jeep. I didn't get any money from my parents(they didn't have any) and while I was no doubt on the lipton noodle and Michilina's frozen dinner diet a lot of nights, I had money to be a college student.
I've got no issue with people that disagree with me, but I've yet to hear any sort of compelling argument for players getting additional compensation other than that some people just feel that it's the right thing to do. No matter how much money people are making in college football, these players need the universities much more than the universities need them. As great as Manziel, Newton, Tebow were, they could have never played a snap and college football wouldn't have skipped a beat.
1. "There's so much money in college football that it's ridiculous that the players aren't getting a piece of the pie"
They are getting a piece of the pie. They're getting a free ride through the best time of their life, unbelievable facilities and hands on training to improve their skill, and a platform like no other to reach their ultimate goal of making the big leagues one day. It boggles my mind as to how under-appreciated those last two seem to always be. Aside from that, so there are people out there making a lot more money off of college football than the players? Ok... my company's executives make a lot more money than I do. Much like the players, that doesn't mean that I'm not important or that my role isn't one of the ones that makes the business's gears turn, but I agreed to a certain level of compensation to do the job that I do and college football players do the exact same. That doesn't have to always mean straight cash.
2. "College athletes just need a little more money to cover the true cost of college"
For ones on partial scholarships, ok... I'm with you. For college football players? Horseshit. These guys are already getting loads more than what I did when I was on several academic scholarships at State and while I did decide to work part time a couple semesters, I did that only so that I could afford to pay the note on my Jeep. I didn't get any money from my parents(they didn't have any) and while I was no doubt on the lipton noodle and Michilina's frozen dinner diet a lot of nights, I had money to be a college student.
I've got no issue with people that disagree with me, but I've yet to hear any sort of compelling argument for players getting additional compensation other than that some people just feel that it's the right thing to do. No matter how much money people are making in college football, these players need the universities much more than the universities need them. As great as Manziel, Newton, Tebow were, they could have never played a snap and college football wouldn't have skipped a beat.
That's irrelevant. It's still a good idea.
They are no different than any other college kids, but if anything, they have it better. They are COMPLETELY taken care of, nutritionally.
This is stupid. Liberal mindset. ****, I would rather them take under the table benefits than be paid by colleges. You will NEVER stop under the table benefits. It will likely only increase if there is a stipend. They'll just want more. Like welfare, it sounds like a noble idea, but it won't work and it'll be taken advantage of just like anything else.
I agree.
Why not?
Right now, like other posters said, College Football is a gravy train for the NFL. Let NCAA football develop and prepare players for you. No need to set up a minor leage system the way baseball does.
You can't tell me that if college football suddenly crumbled that no other means of preparing younger players would develop. If it didn't, the NFL would wither away.
I believe every coach and AD really think compensation is a dumb idea for all the reasons stated in this thread. The problem is, you can't give that impression to potential recruits. Do you want to be the only program in the country to speak out against paying athletes? Everyone is just saying what they need to say.
It's necessary because some of these people can't even pay for books.
Money should be given to the universities who then distribute it into a stipend-type of program for the student-athletes.
If it were up to me they would have tuition/books/housing taken care of, a scooter for transportation, 2 meals a day and a monthly allowance for food/fun/etc. Nothing outrageous.
Money should be given to the universities who then distribute it into a stipend-type of program for the student-athletes.
If it were up to me they would have tuition/books/housing taken care of, a scooter for transportation, 2 meals a day and a monthly allowance for food/fun/etc. Nothing outrageous.
What did he do for "hygiene items" and a "17ing phone just in case" before he enrolled? I still think trading a college education for sweat equity is a heck of a deal that about 99% of the non scholarship population would jump all over if given the opportunity and gladly pay for their own deodorant and Straight Talk phone.
It's absurd for anyone to think paying players will stop them from accepting money illegally.
I have a hard time believing that there is a single player who has ever taken money from a booster / agent that would have turned down that money had he already been getting paid by the college. If you're going to break the rules, you're going to break the rules.
I have a hard time believing that there is a single player who has ever taken money from a booster / agent that would have turned down that money had he already been getting paid by the college. If you're going to break the rules, you're going to break the rules.
They also have some spending money.
And they also get clothes from the Athletic Department. Not a suit and tie, but I can assure you he wasn't just doing without.
Full scholarship athletes have it way better than 50% of other students (probably a much higher percentage than 50). The majority also have a much higher standard of living than what they did before they were full scholarship athletes.
Take that BS somewhere else.
With all that said I wouldn't be against giving them a little more of a stipend or aid. When I say a little more, I'm talking 10% give or take more.
And they also get clothes from the Athletic Department. Not a suit and tie, but I can assure you he wasn't just doing without.
Full scholarship athletes have it way better than 50% of other students (probably a much higher percentage than 50). The majority also have a much higher standard of living than what they did before they were full scholarship athletes.
Take that BS somewhere else.
With all that said I wouldn't be against giving them a little more of a stipend or aid. When I say a little more, I'm talking 10% give or take more.
Except for the fact that they cannot get a job......and because of that, I don't have a problem with the idea of them receiving some kind of reasonable stipend so that they have some walking around money. That said, if they are getting $100/week in addition to having the option of living in the dorms for free and having meals provided, then that is plenty.
You are right. I don't fully understand that kind of poor and hope I never do.
But I am 100% certain regardless of his level of wealth or poverty before stepping foot on campus in June, July or August his circumstances improved after getting here. They improved immensely.
But I am 100% certain regardless of his level of wealth or poverty before stepping foot on campus in June, July or August his circumstances improved after getting here. They improved immensely.
Are you people dumb? Do you not know what college football players receive?
Free Education INCLUDING BOOKS
Free food (they are given meal plans)
Free room and board (if they choose to live off campus, they get a rent or living allowance)
A stipend (they do get a stipend on top of all of the things listed above)
They have all this now. All college football players on scholarship have this and probably a few other things I missed or don't know. They currently receive these benefits now.
For the ones who are poor or below poverty level they also have access to the same things other poor or poverty stricken people do. Food Stamps. Free Phones. Etc. IN ADDITION to the benefits listed above.
Free Education INCLUDING BOOKS
Free food (they are given meal plans)
Free room and board (if they choose to live off campus, they get a rent or living allowance)
A stipend (they do get a stipend on top of all of the things listed above)
They have all this now. All college football players on scholarship have this and probably a few other things I missed or don't know. They currently receive these benefits now.
For the ones who are poor or below poverty level they also have access to the same things other poor or poverty stricken people do. Food Stamps. Free Phones. Etc. IN ADDITION to the benefits listed above.
I agree. They are getting a piece of the pie.
And the idea that the players are the primary reason that there is so much money in college football is just stupid. It is not the players that drive the popularity/value of college football......fans are fans of the schools, not the players.
Two comments
1. Paying college football players opens up the requirements for Title 9. You can't just go give football players hefty stipends without doing the same thing for other sports as well. So the costs are a lot more than just what it takes to pay football players. And to balance this out, does women's basketball, softball, tennis, golf, etc. get stipends that add up to the 85 for football. And if so, why does women's basketball get a hefty stipend but not men's. Eventually it turns into every NCAA athlete at your school must get the same stipend. Fairly costly.
2. The NFL will NEVER initiate a Minor League football system. Not with all this legal stuff with concussions going on. The NFL's biggest bullet in negotiations was that they were going to try to force players to prove their condition was the result of their professional career and not their high school or college career. The players' would have gotten a far better monetary deal had they not been scared of proving that in court. An NFL Minor League in lieu of college football would be far too great a risk for them to take on.
1. Paying college football players opens up the requirements for Title 9. You can't just go give football players hefty stipends without doing the same thing for other sports as well. So the costs are a lot more than just what it takes to pay football players. And to balance this out, does women's basketball, softball, tennis, golf, etc. get stipends that add up to the 85 for football. And if so, why does women's basketball get a hefty stipend but not men's. Eventually it turns into every NCAA athlete at your school must get the same stipend. Fairly costly.
2. The NFL will NEVER initiate a Minor League football system. Not with all this legal stuff with concussions going on. The NFL's biggest bullet in negotiations was that they were going to try to force players to prove their condition was the result of their professional career and not their high school or college career. The players' would have gotten a far better monetary deal had they not been scared of proving that in court. An NFL Minor League in lieu of college football would be far too great a risk for them to take on.
I'm all for players being able to make money on their likeness but they also receive a stipend.
From Dec 2010 - UGA players legally receive $2000/month.
http://www.macon.com/2010/12/30/1392639/in-season-of-giving-ncaa-says.html#ixzz1Q0oIPQCi
The funniest part is him saying he can't make it on 2K/month. That's a lot of money in college to live off of just for spending money and living expenses. Remember, most if not all of their meals are free as well.
From Dec 2010 - UGA players legally receive $2000/month.
The funniest part is him saying he can't make it on 2K/month. That's a lot of money in college to live off of just for spending money and living expenses. Remember, most if not all of their meals are free as well.
Plus, I think a lot of the players qualify for Pell Grants. If paid, would they still qualify for a govt. grant?
Best stats I've heard against it:
Only 3% of college FB players even crack the NFL. A college education on average increases your lifetime earning potential by $1MM.
They should appreciate the free education that they are getting because for nearly all of them, it will be worth substantially more than their football career. I'm not sure out of that 3% how many stick for long enough to make the NFL financially worth it.
That also says that the argument that these players are making all of this money for the institution because of their likeness (or anything directly attributable to a particular player), simply isn't true for the vast majority of players.
Only 3% of college FB players even crack the NFL. A college education on average increases your lifetime earning potential by $1MM.
They should appreciate the free education that they are getting because for nearly all of them, it will be worth substantially more than their football career. I'm not sure out of that 3% how many stick for long enough to make the NFL financially worth it.
That also says that the argument that these players are making all of this money for the institution because of their likeness (or anything directly attributable to a particular player), simply isn't true for the vast majority of players.
I believe you took what I said and used your Jump to Conclusions Mat thereafter.
My point still stands and it was one only direclty pointed at the example he gave. I would bet that very, very few people on this board understand that kind of poverty. I wasn't making a point about anything else. And I surely wasn't talking about government hand outs.
My point still stands and it was one only direclty pointed at the example he gave. I would bet that very, very few people on this board understand that kind of poverty. I wasn't making a point about anything else. And I surely wasn't talking about government hand outs.
I wish I had $2000/month when i was in college.
2000-500 (rent) - 200 (utilities) = 1300/month x 12 months = $15,600/year / 52 weeks is $300 per week.
I would have balled a lot harder in college with $300 of disposable income.
2000-500 (rent) - 200 (utilities) = 1300/month x 12 months = $15,600/year / 52 weeks is $300 per week.
I would have balled a lot harder in college with $300 of disposable income.
And I don't disagree with that. The bigger issue for me is he can't make it even better by going to get a part time job in the off season if he wants. I personally have been rather successful in my career but I guarantee you I always want to make more money. If I was as poor as someone who's situation drastically increases because of college scholarships and the free food program, minimal stipend, etc. I bet I wouldn't just think "Hooray! I am finally out of poverty and am living the good life. No need to want more."
I don't actually think the increased stipend is the way to go. Let them work for it like the rest of us. If boosters want to waste their own money by paying a player who isn't working, then so be it. It is their crappy business practice and not mine.
I don't actually think the increased stipend is the way to go. Let them work for it like the rest of us. If boosters want to waste their own money by paying a player who isn't working, then so be it. It is their crappy business practice and not mine.
The ultimate leverage of a union in the ability to strike. If you can't do that (and it's a true negotiation, not a public employee union dealing with politicians they elect), your bargaining power is limited. How effective do you think you will be at getting college football players to strike, when most of them will only get a couple of years of significant playing time, and the benefit will flow to the people younger than them? That's probably the only thing keeping a union forming now (although I'm not sure how a union would be recognized since I'm guessing college football doesn't clearly fall within NLRB jurisdiction). The only people getting completely screwed will mostly have the opportunity to make money in the pros. For people getting sort of screwed, maybe their compensation is being unfairly suppressed, but it's not a terrible deal and they'll get a lot more *** playing football than striking. And then a pretty significant number of players on scholarship are getting more value from their benefits than they probably produce for the school, so striking won't do them any good and will probably hurt them.
I'm totally against paying them any stipend as it is. They receive plenty, and believe me if they "need" something it's usually provided. I would be MUCH more in favor of the NCAA taking their head out of their *** and using this stipend money to fund a whole 17ing baseball team instead of 11.7 of one. Everyone wants to talk about the poor ole football recruit walking around "broke". You could be a decent baseball player getting .33 of a scholarship and piecing the rest together.
Here is the problem. Title IX. You will have to pay all players the same. Including all Womens' teams.
we currently have a 4/5 star player on our team. He was in pain for days and never told the coaches. When they noticed and asked what was wrong, he said his feet were in pain and he didnt want to say anything. He said his cleats were too small. The coach walked over and got him a new pair and said, you dont have to worry about cleats anymore. You can have as many pair as you want. The kid started crying. He had not only never had cleats that fit, he had never had a new pair of shoes.
These guys deserve something. Dont kid yourself that most of them are there for an education. I know a lot of football players. They dont have money. They get up at 4am and do workouts for 2 hours, are FORCED to go to class (I say forced because many of you played hookie and got high. They do that, they are suspended) for 4 or 5 hours, then they go to their tutor before heading back for another 2 hour practice. Then they work out. They work harder than a "normal" student and they are the only ******* reason anyone post on 6pack. They are also under a microscope during the "most fun years" of their lives when everyone has a camera / video phone and uploads everything anyone does.
Without our football team, over half this board would never return to starkville because there is no reason to.