From Scott's update, it sounds like some sort of additional player compensation
- Thread starter Seinfeld
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hey horshack. Are you going to hire nickoe whitley? Dont act like the majority of these guys are there for an education.
I don't know a thing in the world about Nikoe but my stating what they should do is not likely to change much about what they actually do. I think you may have read something into my post that wasn't there. I in no way implied that they were all there for an education...
Perhaps thats an issue worth exploring. What are they there for? The slimmest of slight chances that they make the NFL?
If thats their plan, then they are screwed in life anyways since they dont even have the sense to capitalize on whats right in front of them(an education without debt once finished).
As one who wasted their college years the first time around, I have no sympathy for people who cant see the big picture and what is right in front of them for the taking.
uh...
When something will never happen, usually thats relevant. And usually, its not a good idea.
Typically, good ideas are implemented.
If a minor league will never happen, thats really relevant when the discussion is about how there should be a minor league. Its as relevant as you can get.
- I tell a buddy I want to make a sun squirter gun. It will harness the sun's rays, store em, and shoot them a target for up to 3 weeks after charging.
- My buddy tells me that wont ever happen.
- Should I really argue that my idea is good and that the fact that it wont ever happen is irrelevant?
I would love to see a sustainable minor league for the NFL. Its been basically tried many times over though. The XFL, NFL Europe, af2, and the UFL to name a few.
The UFL is about as close as you can get to the NFL in terms of rules and similar play- it tanked. Hard. Its also the most recent failure(I believe).
The NFL clearly has no interest in settng up a sustainable development league. It just doesnt have to. And since its game is one where players need to be ready to contribute right when they are drafted, they just dont have a need for development when it would develop so few players.
This has been the same issue with basketball and why the DLeague has been so slow to catch on. Its been a stigma to be drafted and then be assigned to the DLeague(its more common in the last 2 seasons, but still a stigma for many players). The expectation is that if you are drafted in the 1st round, you should be able to compete right away or at least stay in the big boy league to learn.
Until the approach to develop players in the NBA and NFL change, their minor league will be just that- minor when it comes to the team's future plans. Or in the NFL's case- nonexistant.
Originally Posted by esplanade91
NFL minor league? Will never happen.
That's irrelevant. It's still a good idea.
.
When something will never happen, usually thats relevant. And usually, its not a good idea.
Typically, good ideas are implemented.
If a minor league will never happen, thats really relevant when the discussion is about how there should be a minor league. Its as relevant as you can get.
- I tell a buddy I want to make a sun squirter gun. It will harness the sun's rays, store em, and shoot them a target for up to 3 weeks after charging.
- My buddy tells me that wont ever happen.
- Should I really argue that my idea is good and that the fact that it wont ever happen is irrelevant?
I would love to see a sustainable minor league for the NFL. Its been basically tried many times over though. The XFL, NFL Europe, af2, and the UFL to name a few.
The UFL is about as close as you can get to the NFL in terms of rules and similar play- it tanked. Hard. Its also the most recent failure(I believe).
The NFL clearly has no interest in settng up a sustainable development league. It just doesnt have to. And since its game is one where players need to be ready to contribute right when they are drafted, they just dont have a need for development when it would develop so few players.
This has been the same issue with basketball and why the DLeague has been so slow to catch on. Its been a stigma to be drafted and then be assigned to the DLeague(its more common in the last 2 seasons, but still a stigma for many players). The expectation is that if you are drafted in the 1st round, you should be able to compete right away or at least stay in the big boy league to learn.
Until the approach to develop players in the NBA and NFL change, their minor league will be just that- minor when it comes to the team's future plans. Or in the NFL's case- nonexistant.
Actually, they can have a job as long as they don't make more than $2500/semester. And I do know of athletes that held a "job" where they never showed up, but were paid- so this isn't something that's not done.
Are you for certain Nickoe is going to make it in the NFL? As in, play a few years? If not, Nickoe better be there for an education.
You JUST said, the second he complained, he was given free cleats. Does that happen for the average person? NO! How is that "needy"?
It's not the college's responsibility to support them more than they do. They get plenty.
Man, where do you get your information? They get an allowance for lodging that rarely takes care of everything and they only really get fed when football is in season. They don't get a free reign on the cafeteria 365. I think this should change, if anything and only one thing.
I was friends with some of these guys. The kids from stable families were out and about and hanging around. The kids who weren't (majority of the team) struggled. I had a group project this summer with a kid I'm not going to name and you should have seen the school supplies he brought to the library. Pitiful. He didn't even have a computer, which I'm sure for an old person like you isn't such a big deal... but by not having a computer or at least an iphone in the year 2013 you're at an academic disadvantage.
He had a sweet Adidas backpack though, and the only clothes I ever saw him wear were the free team Adidas t-shirts they give to everyone on the team.
Same song different verse in a different group project this spring semester. I had to pick him up on my way to group meetings because he didn't have any source of transportation other than relying on someone else, and while we were at one meeting in particular an agent called him (he had just finished his senior campaign) and he answered on his Boost flip phone.
This might sound like a bunch of whining and BS to you, but it's not about having a crappy phone or cool electronics. If you can't recognize what I'm getting at I'm finished with this discussion.
Again, I want to stress to you that I don't believe in paying players. I wish I could have gone to school for free, but I recognize giving people a free education doesn't necessarily automatically set that person up for success. They need to shore up the quality of life for a student athlete WHILE they get their degree. They can do this pretty easily without directly paying them.
I was friends with some of these guys. The kids from stable families were out and about and hanging around. The kids who weren't (majority of the team) struggled. I had a group project this summer with a kid I'm not going to name and you should have seen the school supplies he brought to the library. Pitiful. He didn't even have a computer, which I'm sure for an old person like you isn't such a big deal... but by not having a computer or at least an iphone in the year 2013 you're at an academic disadvantage.
He had a sweet Adidas backpack though, and the only clothes I ever saw him wear were the free team Adidas t-shirts they give to everyone on the team.
Same song different verse in a different group project this spring semester. I had to pick him up on my way to group meetings because he didn't have any source of transportation other than relying on someone else, and while we were at one meeting in particular an agent called him (he had just finished his senior campaign) and he answered on his Boost flip phone.
This might sound like a bunch of whining and BS to you, but it's not about having a crappy phone or cool electronics. If you can't recognize what I'm getting at I'm finished with this discussion.
Again, I want to stress to you that I don't believe in paying players. I wish I could have gone to school for free, but I recognize giving people a free education doesn't necessarily automatically set that person up for success. They need to shore up the quality of life for a student athlete WHILE they get their degree. They can do this pretty easily without directly paying them.
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"Originally Posted by Heawww: They don't have to, at this point. Re-read my original post and you might comprehend. It's an added expense they don't need as long as the NCAA develops players for them."
He stated very clearly that an NFL minor league will "never happen." You responded that it was irrelevant and still a good idea. There is nothing else to comprehend. If it is such a good idea someone would try to start it to profit from it. Instead, they don't need it because the NCAA does it for them for free, which strangely you just admitted. So it is NOT a good idea to start a minor league of football at enormous financial risk and enormous effort when the NCAA does it for you. In fact, it is a bad idea. A better idea would be to start another NFL team and continue to take advantage of the NCAA.
He stated very clearly that an NFL minor league will "never happen." You responded that it was irrelevant and still a good idea. There is nothing else to comprehend. If it is such a good idea someone would try to start it to profit from it. Instead, they don't need it because the NCAA does it for them for free, which strangely you just admitted. So it is NOT a good idea to start a minor league of football at enormous financial risk and enormous effort when the NCAA does it for you. In fact, it is a bad idea. A better idea would be to start another NFL team and continue to take advantage of the NCAA.
They get like a $30/day meal stipend on away games. If you can't eat off of that, I'm sorry.
I played sports at a JUCO- my scholarship covered 3 meals a day during the week the entire year. You got two meals at dinner if your sport was in season. Weekend meals were provided when you had practice or games. I did soccer and we only had a few of those.... but I saw football players regularly getting meals on weekends. Don't give me some garbage about them only getting fed during season. They may only choose to go get cafeteria food during the season because they're up there and it's easier. I really doubt they are only fed during their sport's season because they require spring training, etc.
Not having a computer puts you at an academic disadvantage? I'm in PT school and have classmates that don't have computers. They use the computer labs and are fine. You have to extend yourself a little more, sure.
the ONLY way to fix the current system is to make the risk of cheating outweigh the reward. a few schollys, some visits, and a bowl ban for the most egregious offenses aint cutting it. you start using a year death-penalty as the minimum infraction penalty along with the ncaa going back to its "reasonable suspicion" stance, and see how many boosters step-out of line and how much better schools start regulating and watching the player/booster interaction. once the first few schools are made an example of, the rest of the college football world would take notice when the guilty program is set back half a decade for allowing impermissible benefits via a year long suspension of football. the current system will not work no matter what they put in place because the reward of cheating > the penalty for cheating. some 3-9 team would be stupid not to cheat their asses off....whats the worst that could happen? you lose some scholarships? big deal, your players are ****** anyway....you lose bowl eligility? big deal, you suck *** with the players you have now and arent anywhere near sniffing a bowl unless you start cheating....but if you threaten said team with losing an entire season of playing (in addition to the financial implications of doing so), that would make a significant impact on who is willing to pay-for-play and dramatically curb the way schools compliance departments are run. right now, the ncaa is a joke and them wielding their down-pillow of justice isnt scaring anybody.
Absolutely true. If you're of a bent to take illegal money, then you're going to take it whether the school pays you or not and regardless of how much they pay you.
All that is probably about right, except maybe the scooter part. I assumed they already got their books paid for. And why only 2 meals a day ... most people have 3? I don't even object to a small monthly stipend for incidentals.
When I was in school, there were a lot of kids that didn't have cars, and they managed just fine. And no, I'm not so old that cars were not commonplace in the populace. Athletes lived in an athletic dorm, and I think it should be that way now instead of allowing them to live wherever they want. That would cut down on a lot of the irregular behavior too.
I'm not at all sure that the school or NCAA should be able to make a mint off a player's name or image though. Manziel comes to mind. Not sure what the solution to that one is, but the player still owns himself. There may not be a solution that's equitable.
When I was in school, there were a lot of kids that didn't have cars, and they managed just fine. And no, I'm not so old that cars were not commonplace in the populace. Athletes lived in an athletic dorm, and I think it should be that way now instead of allowing them to live wherever they want. That would cut down on a lot of the irregular behavior too.
I'm not at all sure that the school or NCAA should be able to make a mint off a player's name or image though. Manziel comes to mind. Not sure what the solution to that one is, but the player still owns himself. There may not be a solution that's equitable.
But the idea of NCAA football withering away is absurb. So you are making a point not worth making.
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The problem is that the death penalty penalizes the school and other players and the fans when none of those had anything to do with the infraction. The booster who gave the money gets off scott free because it's not illegal. Maybe it should be ....
But you've got to have some sort of meaningful penalty for the school and team or otherwise they wouldn't make any attempt at all to stop things. Probably some they ARE aware of and that's the ones the school should be penalized for ... but they can't stop what they don't know about.
But you've got to have some sort of meaningful penalty for the school and team or otherwise they wouldn't make any attempt at all to stop things. Probably some they ARE aware of and that's the ones the school should be penalized for ... but they can't stop what they don't know about.
And that goes for the so-called "academic" schools too (meaning Michigan, UNC, UVA, even Vanderbilt) ... most of their players are not there to go to school. They're there to play football.
Baseball seems to be the lone exception in the Big 3. Most of them are good students. And the minor sports too. At the game this weekend, one of the girls' teams (can't remember if it was soccer, golf, tennis, or whatever) had the highest GPA of any athletic team in the history of the U, as I recall.
He wont make the nfl. That is my point. Are you going to hire him with his 2.8 and business degree? The answer is no, even though he went to class and graduated.
Like a player told me " the same fans that cheer me every week would disown their daughter if they brought me home"
the normal ncaa infractions penalize the school and other players as well (albeit in a round-about fashion), so now its just a question of acceptable severity. any penalty affects all levels, but to different degrees, and ultimately, the institutions are the ones that have the MOST control over the situation. is it a perfect solution? no....but something has to change and if a few schools have to get hammered to make a point, im fine with that.
in parts of the middle east under sharia control, the penalty for theft is having your right hand cut off. businessmen in the parts middle east have been known to leave their wallets on restaurant tables for hours to "save" their spot for later in the evening, without fear their wallet will be stolen. from the perspective of a thief, its a case where risk >>>>> reward which results in very little theft. that principle applies here as well.
the ncaa has to have a heavy hand to reestablish some semblance of respect. regardless of the penalty, the only way to stop it is to tip the risk-reward balance in the ncaa's favor and for that to happen, their balls have to drop. either it needs to be a free market where the deep-pocket teams buy players and national titles year-in-and-out OR they need to severely enforce the rules already in place in a manner that very few teams, players, and boosters are willing to take the risk. If a one year death penalty is too harsh, perhaps the scholarships get quartered or halved....i dont know. to me, its got to be heavy, almost insurmountable, in the short-term, in order to be effective. how many of us would regularly speed on the highway if the penalty for speeding was mandatory imprisonment for 6 months or a $20,000 fine? not me....but if the penalty for speeding stays the same, if i get clipped every other year or every two years or so for a few hundred bucks, meh, i can swing that.
in parts of the middle east under sharia control, the penalty for theft is having your right hand cut off. businessmen in the parts middle east have been known to leave their wallets on restaurant tables for hours to "save" their spot for later in the evening, without fear their wallet will be stolen. from the perspective of a thief, its a case where risk >>>>> reward which results in very little theft. that principle applies here as well.
the ncaa has to have a heavy hand to reestablish some semblance of respect. regardless of the penalty, the only way to stop it is to tip the risk-reward balance in the ncaa's favor and for that to happen, their balls have to drop. either it needs to be a free market where the deep-pocket teams buy players and national titles year-in-and-out OR they need to severely enforce the rules already in place in a manner that very few teams, players, and boosters are willing to take the risk. If a one year death penalty is too harsh, perhaps the scholarships get quartered or halved....i dont know. to me, its got to be heavy, almost insurmountable, in the short-term, in order to be effective. how many of us would regularly speed on the highway if the penalty for speeding was mandatory imprisonment for 6 months or a $20,000 fine? not me....but if the penalty for speeding stays the same, if i get clipped every other year or every two years or so for a few hundred bucks, meh, i can swing that.