FSU vs ACC

DaboSits2PeePee

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Just initial gut reaction, but this says they're already debating an out of court settlement to leave.
Makes sense for all involved. Both sides have some control in a settlement. Once it gets to court you lose ALL control. Maybe it's just my bias in not wanting to see ANOTHER conference go by the wayside, but I can see FSU doing this just to see what cards the ACC is holding, then deciding to drop the case. I just can't imagine paying out that kind of money when in a few years you'll be able to get out for free or significantly less. Just feels like a lot of posturing on both sides at this point.
 

Lurker123

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I don't know. I have this feeling, fwiw, that the big 2 conferences really are going to swallow up a few more teams. I think this is what leads to an "upper division" or whatever we call it.

I should add, the need to get out sooner could be making surebthat there is a seat at the table.
 
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KingWard

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Most likely scenario: the ACC settles with FSU for a fraction of the book value of the GOR. From that point on, the rush is on in the most eventful game of Musical Chairs that the sports world has ever seen.

The foreseeable future of college athletics is about to be defined. Everybody should brace themselves. Find a place to hold on!
 

Harvard Gamecock

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Makes sense for all involved. Both sides have some control in a settlement. Once it gets to court you lose ALL control. Maybe it's just my bias in not wanting to see ANOTHER conference go by the wayside, but I can see FSU doing this just to see what cards the ACC is holding, then deciding to drop the case. I just can't imagine paying out that kind of money when in a few years you'll be able to get out for free or significantly less. Just feels like a lot of posturing on both sides at this point.
1) FSU is not going to drop the case
2) The buyback is less, much less than the reported 429 million.
3) Not posturing, there is a reason that the ACC is litigating to keep all records sealed. It's going to be a very bad.
 

DaboSits2PeePee

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1) FSU is not going to drop the case
2) The buyback is less, much less than the reported 429 million.
3) Not posturing, there is a reason that the ACC is litigating to keep all records sealed. It's going to be a very bad.
1. Nobody knows how this is going to end up. I wouldn't be surprised by anything at this point.
2. I know it will be less. Cut it in half, $215M is a freakin' mountain to pay just to get our of a deal early. They're talking about inviting PE in to help fund it?? Laughable. That'll be a nightmare for them.
3. Of course they don't want their records out. Why would they? Posturing or not.
 

Lurker123

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1. Nobody knows how this is going to end up. I wouldn't be surprised by anything at this point.
2. I know it will be less. Cut it in half, $215M is a freakin' mountain to pay just to get our of a deal early. They're talking about inviting PE in to help fund it?? Laughable. That'll be a nightmare for them.
3. Of course they don't want their records out. Why would they? Posturing or not.

On point #2, is that a lot? If the TV deal differences are 40-50 million dollar delta, we're talking about a few years of setting aside the increase to pay it off.
 

KingWard

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1. Nobody knows how this is going to end up. I wouldn't be surprised by anything at this point.
2. I know it will be less. Cut it in half, $215M is a freakin' mountain to pay just to get our of a deal early. They're talking about inviting PE in to help fund it?? Laughable. That'll be a nightmare for them.
3. Of course they don't want their records out. Why would they? Posturing or not.
I'm positing that, if the ACC has to deal, the final settlement will be much less than the $215 million you posit. Anyway, I want to get a chance to find out. ;)
 

Harvard Gamecock

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1. Nobody knows how this is going to end up. I wouldn't be surprised by anything at this point.
2. I know it will be less. Cut it in half, $215M is a freakin' mountain to pay just to get our of a deal early. They're talking about inviting PE in to help fund it?? Laughable. That'll be a nightmare for them.
3. Of course they don't want their records out. Why would they? Posturing or not.
Believe this, FSU is not dropping this case, and has no interest in staying as a member of the ACC.
Look for even less than half of the negotiated settlement.
There are going to be some very unflattering details as to Swoffords dealings with ESPN/Raycom, and lack of transparency in regard to members of ACC schools BOT's.
 
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DaboSits2PeePee

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On point #2, is that a lot? If the TV deal differences are 40-50 million dollar delta, we're talking about a few years of setting aside the increase to pay it off.
I think that number is very low, and no way the ACC takes a 50% discount. But yeah, going 5 years with no TV revenue would be tough. They just took $104M in bond debt to start construction on football only facilities. Their facilities have lagged for a long time. Jimbo cited it as a reason for him leaving. It's one of the big things they agreed to in order to get Norvelle to stay. So, do you go AT LEAST 5 years with nothing, or keep trying to build until you get close to the end of the GOR when the ACC is more motivated to make a deal? Also, ESPN has an option to look in on that contract next year I believe. Wouldn't be shocked to see them sweeten the pot.
 

DaboSits2PeePee

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Believe this, FSU is not dropping this case, and has no interest in staying as a member of the ACC.
Look for even less than half of the negotiated settlement.
There are going to be some very unflattering details as to Swoffords dealings with ESPN/Raycom, and lack of transparency in regard to members of ACC schools BOT's.
Whatever happens, the chaos is great. What a predicament they find themselves in. Just a few short years ago the GOR was the best thing since sliced bread. lol.
 

Harvard Gamecock

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Whatever happens, the chaos is great. What a predicament they find themselves in. Just a few short years ago the GOR was the best thing since sliced bread. lol.
There is a reason the ACC is now willing to negotiate a buy back of those rights with FSU.
The so called Ironclad narrative is about to have more holes shown in it than a rusting car in a abandoned field.
 
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Lurker123

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I think that number is very low, and no way the ACC takes a 50% discount. But yeah, going 5 years with no TV revenue would be tough. They just took $104M in bond debt to start construction on football only facilities. Their facilities have lagged for a long time. Jimbo cited it as a reason for him leaving. It's one of the big things they agreed to in order to get Norvelle to stay. So, do you go AT LEAST 5 years with nothing, or keep trying to build until you get close to the end of the GOR when the ACC is more motivated to make a deal? Also, ESPN has an option to look in on that contract next year I believe. Wouldn't be shocked to see them sweeten the pot.

You and I are talking different scenarios. I was saying that if the DELTA between the ACC money and their new conference was 40 -50 million, then they would only have to allocate the delta for a few years. The increase.

They could spend 4 or 5 years at ACC spending levels and buy off the debt with just the increase.

You are right that going 5 years spending all the money would be ridiculous. They'd have to spread it out over a decade(s) instead.

This is assuming they would make that much more in the new conference.
 

DaboSits2PeePee

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There is a reason the ACC is now willing to negotiate a buy buck of those rights with FSU.
The so called Ironclad narrative is about to have more holes shown in it than a rusting car in a abandoned field.
Any contractual dispute is better settled before it goes to court. Once it goes to court, you lose all control and could be left with nothing. I think both sides know that, and both would like to settle. Can they agree to terms? Who knows. FSU holds the upper hand. They haven't notified the ACC that they intend to leave. I guess they could probably hold out, go to court and see how it turns out. If it is ironclad, they just stay.
 

Lurker123

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There is a reason the ACC is now willing to negotiate a buy buck of those rights with FSU.
The so called Ironclad narrative is about to have more holes shown in it than a rusting car in a abandoned field.

This is what I heard. Rumor, fwiw. And it all goes back to your other comment:

There are going to be some very unflattering details as to Swoffords dealings with ESPN/Raycom, and lack of transparency in regard to members of ACC schools BOT's.
 

DaboSits2PeePee

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Check out this article from 2013. Goes into great detail about the attention and effort Swofford made to make sure FSU felt comfortable with the deal. A couple of quotes that stood out to me from Trustees. I said it before...this deal is EXACTLY what they all wanted. It accomplished their objectives; to make more money and make it damn near impossible to leave.

"What is on the minds of a lot of people is, is the ACC the conference that gives us the best opportunity to compete over the long term?" Gruters, FSU's youngest trustee, said. "At the end of the day, I think the ACC negotiated a good deal with ESPN and levels the playing field with the rest of the conferences."

"I was in concert with President Barron that this was the best thing that could happen," Hillis said. "It ensures that we don't lose any members. Nobody can afford to leave now."

 

TheRoo

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Regardless of where it all lands, FSU will serve as the stripper of any conference it's included in.

Too bad the energy dedicated to offseason musical chairs isn't more centered on bringing back some integrity to the game through regulation of the NIL and portal.
 
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KingWard

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Regardless of where it all lands, FSU will serve as the stripper of any conference it's included in.

Too bad the energy dedicated to offseason musical chairs isn't more centered on bringing back some integrity to the game through regulation of the NIL and portal.
Nothing about one situation precluded action on the other. There are plenty of hands not occupied with this.
 
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KingWard

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Check out this article from 2013. Goes into great detail about the attention and effort Swofford made to make sure FSU felt comfortable with the deal. A couple of quotes that stood out to me from Trustees. I said it before...this deal is EXACTLY what they all wanted. It accomplished their objectives; to make more money and make it damn near impossible to leave.

"What is on the minds of a lot of people is, is the ACC the conference that gives us the best opportunity to compete over the long term?" Gruters, FSU's youngest trustee, said. "At the end of the day, I think the ACC negotiated a good deal with ESPN and levels the playing field with the rest of the conferences."

"I was in concert with President Barron that this was the best thing that could happen," Hillis said. "It ensures that we don't lose any members. Nobody can afford to leave now."

Different times, different decision-makers, different landscapes, different finances, different objectives, different perceived and actual needs. Sadly, marriages break up every day that were running smoothly 11 years ago. And those were both legal and spiritual covenants.
 
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Harvard Gamecock

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Different times, different decision-makers, different landscapes, different finances, different objectives, different perceived and actual needs. Sadly, marriages break up every day that were running smoothly 11 years ago. And those were both legal and spiritual covenants.
So true, this outdated article has absolutely no bearing on the current situation.
All the signs are out there to see where this heading, and all involved parties are barely disguising their intents.
 
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DaboSits2PeePee

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So true, this outdated article has absolutely no bearing on the current situation.
All the signs are out there to see where this heading, and all involved parties are barely disguising their intents.
So they’re trying to claim they were hoodwinked into a bad deal, while it’s been reported that Swofford was doing everything in his power to appease them, and trustees at the time were applauding it. Yeah, no bearing on it at all. Lol
 

Lurker123

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So true, this outdated article has absolutely no bearing on the current situation.
All the signs are out there to see where this heading, and all involved parties are barely disguising their intents.

Its true the article is outdated, but I think the intention was to convey that FSU was involved and informed at the time.

I think there's a bit of coachspeak in there though. Once a decision is made, institutions tend to put a good face on when discussing.

The rumors I heard involved swofford and the raycom deal, and how he misled some parties. The type of thing that wouldn't come out till later.
 
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DaboSits2PeePee

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Its true the article is outdated, but I think the intention was to convey that FSU was involved and informed at the time.

I think there's a bit of coachspeak in there though. Once a decision is made, institutions tend to put a good face on when discussing.

The rumors I heard involved swofford and the raycom deal, and how he misled some parties. The type of thing that wouldn't come out till later.
Precisely.

I don’t know what relevance the Raycom deal would have to this scenario. This all ESPN.
 

Harvard Gamecock

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So they’re trying to claim they were hoodwinked into a bad deal, while it’s been reported that Swofford was doing everything in his power to appease them, and trustees at the time were applauding it. Yeah, no bearing on it at all. Lol
You have already stated that you want the ACC to stay intact, and now you are pulling 11 year old articles to somehow solidify your position. Well you go ahead and stay on your course, but inevitably you are going to be disappointed.

I can assure you, I am not speaking from a point of opinon, FSU will be the first one out, with more to immediately follow., you can believe this or not, it matters not to me.

.
 
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DaboSits2PeePee

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You have already stated that you want the ACC to stay intact, and now you are pulling 11 year old articles to somehow solidify your position. Well you go ahead and stay on your course, but inevitably you are going to be disappointed.

I can assure you, I am not speaking from a point of opinon, FSU will be the first one out, with more to immediately follow., you can believe this or not, it matters not to me.

.
You’re right, I will be disappointed. Just disappointed in what the sport has become. It’s fine, some new structure will take its place and will inevitably have some positive aspects.

The point of the article is just showing this wasn’t poor little old FSU getting railroaded into something they didn’t want. Quite the contrary.
 

ConwayGamecock

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It will have major relevance, particularly as to who benefitted from the Raycom deal. The information is out there, you have to be willing to do your research.

Used to be a long standing theory from Clemson fans that Swofford gave sweetheart deals to Raycom because he had a son who was a vice president of Raycom Sports. This was the common folk speak of Tiger Nation going way back before all this conference re-alignment nonsense....
 

Rogue Cock

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Believe this, FSU is not dropping this case, and has no interest in staying as a member of the ACC.
Look for even less than half of the negotiated settlement.
There are going to be some very unflattering details as to Swoffords dealings with ESPN/Raycom, and lack of transparency in regard to members of ACC schools BOT's.
Bingo! Fraud in the inducement.
 
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Rogue Cock

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I think that number is very low, and no way the ACC takes a 50% discount. But yeah, going 5 years with no TV revenue would be tough. They just took $104M in bond debt to start construction on football only facilities. Their facilities have lagged for a long time. Jimbo cited it as a reason for him leaving. It's one of the big things they agreed to in order to get Norvelle to stay. So, do you go AT LEAST 5 years with nothing, or keep trying to build until you get close to the end of the GOR when the ACC is more motivated to make a deal? Also, ESPN has an option to look in on that contract next year I believe. Wouldn't be shocked to see them sweeten the pot.
Hint: ESPN hasn't joined the ACC in an attempt to keep the media rights deal sealed. That alone should tell you something about ESPNs strategy in all this.
 

DaboSits2PeePee

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Hint: ESPN hasn't joined the ACC in an attempt to keep the media rights deal sealed. That alone should tell you something about ESPNs strategy in all this.
Why would they get involved? It’s not their quarrel. The GOR is a completely separate document than the TV deal. ESPN hasn’t been named, and I’m sure they’d like to keep it that way.
 

Rogue Cock

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Why would they get involved? It’s not their quarrel. The GOR is a completely separate document than the TV deal. ESPN hasn’t been named, and I’m sure they’d like to keep it that way.
Because they are a party to the TV deal....and the NC Court asked for ESsPN input on the ACCs request to keep the information regarding the TV sealed. Sounds as though both parties don't request the TV deal information be kept sealed, the courts aren't likely to do it The TV deal was clearly used to entice the ACC members to signing the GOR agreement.
 

DaboSits2PeePee

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Because they are a party to the TV deal....and the NC Court asked for ESsPN input on the ACCs request to keep the information regarding the TV sealed. Sounds as though both parties don't request the TV deal information be kept sealed, the courts aren't likely to do it The TV deal was clearly used to entice the ACC members to signing the GOR agreement.
Per FSU, the ACC isn’t looking to have actual details of the deal sealed, but rather generalizations and characterizations. They allege that there are embarrassing comparisons to the SEC and B10 deals in the communications. Again, not really anything ESPN would care about.
 

Rogue Cock

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Per FSU, the ACC isn’t looking to have actual details of the deal sealed, but rather generalizations and characterizations. They allege that there are embarrassing comparisons to the SEC and B10 deals in the communications. Again, not really anything ESPN would care about.
They are also requesting email conversations and other documents regarding the negotiations between Swofford, ESPN and Jefferson-Pilot.....it all goes to what the ACC knew and what they failed to disclose to the members. If FSU can prove fraud in the inducement, the GOR is dust in the wind.
 
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DaboSits2PeePee

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They are also requesting email conversations and other documents regarding the negotiations between Swofford, ESPN and Jefferson-Pilot.....it all goes to what the ACC knew and what they failed to disclose to the members. If FSU can prove fraud in the inducement, the GOR is dust in the wind.
100%....but that's a giant hurdle to clear.
 

Harvard Gamecock

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This thing is a rock rolling downhill, just now gathering a little speed. I'm reading stuff on On3 speculating about whether FSU winds up in the Big 10 or the SEC. There's an air of inevitability.
It is no longer a question of if, but when.
 
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