IMO Wimsatt has shown great improvement this year to the point that he looks like a D1 QB. However, don't know if it has been posted before or not but to me he locks on to his receiver & stares him down. No bueno. Don't know why our coaches haven't improved him in this area.
Gavin Wimsatt
- Thread starter rudad02
- Start date
Maybe he has trouble reacquiring his hot target in practice? Maybe they run drills for looking off safeties but GW is bad at it? I don't want to see him do it just to see him hold onto the ball too long trying to reacquire his target. Probably what we need to do is one of those timing patters to a sideline.. that is, have him drop back looking one way.. then turn and fire to the other side.. to a spot.. and its up to the WR to get there. You run that off a certain pre-snap look that guarantees man coverage outside... with, hopefully, a height advantage for the WR.
Maybe GW is taking his charge of not turning the ball over as supreme and is only considering throwing to his target or throwing it away?
We have seen his timing can be a bit off as well as his accuracy... which is a bit strange if he is locking down on a single target. You'd think that would be perfect timing at a minimum... at least on short routes.
I still scratch my head as to why we have not used Monangai's success as a lure to play-fake and send GW bootleg outside. This is beginning to border on misfeasance for our OC... not using our assets properly.
Maybe GW is taking his charge of not turning the ball over as supreme and is only considering throwing to his target or throwing it away?
We have seen his timing can be a bit off as well as his accuracy... which is a bit strange if he is locking down on a single target. You'd think that would be perfect timing at a minimum... at least on short routes.
I still scratch my head as to why we have not used Monangai's success as a lure to play-fake and send GW bootleg outside. This is beginning to border on misfeasance for our OC... not using our assets properly.
When it happens it will be a big play. I’m sure against Indiana it will happen.
_
GW obviously has some bad habits to correct. But he's making steady progress now, IMO.
When I watch other CFB games, typically Big Ten games so I can "scout" upcoming opponents, I see other QBs making similar types of mistakes as GW. I'm not counting or comparing incidents, but even the QBs for elite teams usually exhibit some bad habits to work out.
Watching pro QBs, most of those bad habits have been fixed, although they still make mistakes. But CFB QBs mostly still have a lot of work to do (and, of course, most will never be good enough to play in the NFL).
The QBs on elite CFB teams have some big advantages QBs on lesser teams lack. And those advantages go a long way towards making them look better during games. The first big advantage is their O lines. The second is the talent of their receivers.
Our O line, while much improved this season, still struggles at times, especially against better teams. That makes it somewhat harder for our QBs to settle in and avoid bad habits than, say, OSU's or PSU's QBs. Our receivers are doing better this season too, but generally don't seem to create as much separation, as quickly and consistently, as the elite team's receivers.
To me, it never makes sense to judge a QB's performance in a vacuum. A QBs performance has a ton of dependency upon other players. So I prefer to evaluate the passing game as a whole, rather than just focusing on the QB (or just focusing on the other players involved).
It sounds obvious, but put GW behind a truly great O line and equip him with truly great receivers and he will appear to be a much better QB and will have much better ratings. Still would have some bad habits and make mistakes. But he'd have more time to exercise good habits, would often have more productive 3rd and 4th options, and those things would combine to help him be more accurate and successful.
It's not just GW. The same is true for Simon or anybody else.
When I watch other CFB games, typically Big Ten games so I can "scout" upcoming opponents, I see other QBs making similar types of mistakes as GW. I'm not counting or comparing incidents, but even the QBs for elite teams usually exhibit some bad habits to work out.
Watching pro QBs, most of those bad habits have been fixed, although they still make mistakes. But CFB QBs mostly still have a lot of work to do (and, of course, most will never be good enough to play in the NFL).
The QBs on elite CFB teams have some big advantages QBs on lesser teams lack. And those advantages go a long way towards making them look better during games. The first big advantage is their O lines. The second is the talent of their receivers.
Our O line, while much improved this season, still struggles at times, especially against better teams. That makes it somewhat harder for our QBs to settle in and avoid bad habits than, say, OSU's or PSU's QBs. Our receivers are doing better this season too, but generally don't seem to create as much separation, as quickly and consistently, as the elite team's receivers.
To me, it never makes sense to judge a QB's performance in a vacuum. A QBs performance has a ton of dependency upon other players. So I prefer to evaluate the passing game as a whole, rather than just focusing on the QB (or just focusing on the other players involved).
It sounds obvious, but put GW behind a truly great O line and equip him with truly great receivers and he will appear to be a much better QB and will have much better ratings. Still would have some bad habits and make mistakes. But he'd have more time to exercise good habits, would often have more productive 3rd and 4th options, and those things would combine to help him be more accurate and successful.
It's not just GW. The same is true for Simon or anybody else.
All things that can be fixed- in the Mich St game, it looks like he actually went to his secondary target 5-6 times. Though, usully a guy near his primary.
But what can't be taught, some of those sideline and endzone throws he has made.
But what can't be taught, some of those sideline and endzone throws he has made.
TKR posted video of all his attempts vs. MSU. It’s a must watch. Forget down, distance and situation. He looked good!!
He appeared to look off the out route & threw to Washington instead for a TD.
On the throw he made to Dremel where Dremel was targeted, he was looking to the WR on the sideline before going over the middle. Also looks like he went to the 2nd guy on his poorly thrown Int
He is much improved and is an asset. That td throw to Washington was outstanding.
His rocking back before a pass play has also been reduced significantly. Have to believe they have worked on that.
Feel like in many ways he is Teel 06--don't screw up and make a pass once in awhile, while next year he will become more of a weapon.
His rocking back before a pass play has also been reduced significantly. Have to believe they have worked on that.
Feel like in many ways he is Teel 06--don't screw up and make a pass once in awhile, while next year he will become more of a weapon.
Yeah...especially when he's making some throws that we haven't seen here in a very, very long time, to the sidelines, the corners of the EZ, and now even the lasers he has shown he can throw to or inside the hashmarks.
Unreal.
Okay so I was super hard on him in the game thread but I just watched this condensed version of all his throws and it really does look a lot better than it seemed live. It was really only 3 bad throws. Now - he had a ton of time on many of the misses so the real question is whether there were receivers open that he wasn’t finding.
One of the 3 bad throws was not a dangerous one but just another misthrow on a short side route. Seeing that he has the green light to attempt more of those is a step in the right direction. If he could be reliable on those his completion numbers would go up a lot.
I broke it down - Also watched the Same youtube of all his throws
GW was 13-28...but, he had 4 throwaways 13-24 he had 3 drops 16-24 and 2 tips. One of them a great play by a defensive player who already cleared the throw line but twisted back to make a crazy play to tip it- the throw looked to be on target but will let that go. He also had at least 4 or 5 NFL level throws.
If you stop and really break down each throw - he wasn't bad at all. He had 5-6 throws that were off
I don't think they count the 2 pt play in the stats so it would be more like 17 good throws out of 25.
On a couple of your points. With regard to not turning the ball over, locking in on a receiver is a sure way of having the ball picked off & turned over. On the other point agree with using Gavin on a bootleg after fake to Kyle fake into the line.
Would love to see us try an old HS play we ran called a cross-buck. Two backs- QB turns & either hands off or fakes to 1st back cutting to the right off the centers back, continues wheeling & hands off to the 2nd back, who has delayed half a count & is crossing off the centers back the other way if the first was a fake. QB can also fake to the 2nd back keep, it and roll himself or throw off the fakes. Keep them guessing & off balance.
Could also use two backs & run the old Green Bay sweep--pull both guards with tackle, end & one of the backs blocking as well. We are too one dimensional.
One of the things I have noticed this year that may also be a reason he doesnt look off too many times- primary WR's have been getting open a lot more this year then we have seen in a long time.
That cross-buck is a typical "counter". FB on dive and TB goes off-tackle. I like the concept.. though there's a reason the fullback is a dying position. I like the quick-hitter with teh OL firing out.. keeps Ds honest... more honest, I think, than slow-developing handoffs or QB runs up the middle. But any 2-back sets would tip off the D.. we just don't run enough other plays with that same look. Like what we do now, we'd need GW to keep it and run outside and hurt them to make sure an LB marks him and follows him and opens an area in teh 2nd level for RBs to attack.
On the first point.. think of Gavin's intercepted screen pass. He went one way then pivoted to throw back.. he clearly did not make a decision as he looked back.. he just threw it. Yes.. tracking your target is bad... but the alternative might be worse. If you track, you should know if the pass is there or not.. of course, DBs playing other receivers or zones can fool you.. like that field-length pick-6... but most time he seems to throw it away if its not there... even if he has room to run... which I find odd for a running QB. I'd love to see GW commit to evasion a bit more.. getting outside a rusher.
It was the best adjusted completion percentage of his career, IIRC.
I am not saying he is not an improvement but he misses a lot of easy ones
I want him as our QB and not complaining
about him being the number one
Last edited:
What you describe as the cross buck is not accurate. It is as I described. I also like quick hitters rather than slow developing hand offs.
Typical i-formation counters.. doe not show a QB bootleg option.. the hot target is the RB who runs COUNTER to the the center block and RB going left. The defense should be reading everything looking like a defensive-right-side running play and at least take a step that way.. which sets up the blocks at the 2nd level on the offense's right.
I know you know this.. just saying the word you used cross-buck, and what you described seemed to me like it is more commonly referred to as a "counter"... and we do not run enough of them as far as I can tell. Especially if you have successfully run teh ball.. that makes counters and bootlegs and play-action passes MORE effective as defenses try to sell out to stop what you are successful at.
But with 1-RB backfields, I think we are limited to the bootlegs... or maybe a flanker-sweep kind of thing... or a reverse. In fact, our best straight-forward QB runs seem to come off sweeps. Our OL seems pretty good at pulling and getting out there. Student body left!
Last edited:
I took a look at the video for MSU game. Out of the 28 pass attempts he really only had about 5-6 misses. One overthrow turned out to be an interception but the rest of his misses were pretty harmless. His other INT and incompletions were either off the receivers hands, a few deflections at the line T or throw-aways when he was under duress or receivers not open. Could argue that the TD pass was a mis-read as he had an easier open receiver in the flat for a TD. He also made quite a few high accuracy throws to guys who were only slightly open, along the sideline or for the TD to Dremel.
Good, what you describe is indeed a counter but not a cross buck. You can run 4 plays off a cross buck. QB can give to either back going different ways off the center, the QB can continue to wheel & take it off tackle or around end himself or throw. Was a back & we ran it with real good success.Typical i-formation counters.. doe not show a QB bootleg option.. the hot target is the RB who runs COUNTER to the the center block and RB going left. The defense should be reading everything looking like a defensive-right-side running play and at least take a step that way.. which sets up the blocks at the 2nd level on the offense's right.
I know you know this.. just saying the word you used cross-buck, and what you described seemed to me like it is more commonly referred to as a "counter"... and we do not run enough of them as far as I can tell. Especially if you have successfully run teh ball.. that makes counters and bootlegs and play-action passes MORE effective as defenses try to sell out to stop what you are successful at.
But with 1-RB backfields, I think we are limited to the bootlegs... or maybe a flanker-sweep kind of thing... or a reverse. In fact, our best straight-forward QB runs seem to come off sweeps. Our OL seems pretty good at pulling and getting out there. Student body left!
Adjusted completion percentage?? Haha. You mean excuses for the misses. You folks think that GW is the only QB to throw the ball away.
For the year he is way better then last year but Saturday was the worst of 2023.
I'm talking his worse game.Not even close.
You know what is even worse though- 30-45 300yds and losing the game
Two turnovers has you encouraged? The beauty about his season was no turnovers. Then he has 2 in the first half. He improved greatly on his management of the game this season until the first half of the game last Saturday.
Isn’t that an AI based analytical tool? I don’t know how his stats compare to others but the relative comparison is apples to apples to his own worse prior ratings for sure. So that’s encouraging.
No it isn't. It was by far his worse game at QB this year. There isn't a single stat that supports him having a good day
I don’t even know where to look it up. The PPR thing. One of the podcasts was talking about his numbers improving.
I understand what you are saying if you just look at stats- he had 2 Int which he had not done this year- but, we are not talking stats but the players and development wise- he had a pretty good day. He cannot control drops or a ball that is dropped and into the hands of the defender
He did not have a pretty good game. He put the team in a huge hole, the defense, special teams and Monangai won the game. I watched the game! It was his worse game of the year. You are ignoring the biggest stat. 2 interceptions.
Last edited:
I too was very encouraged by his performance against MSU. Finally starting to get away from the low risk, low reward passing game! He is beginning to make good throws downfield and over the middle which is mandatory for him and this team to progress. Overall he only missed a handful of throws the entire game. Unfortunately ones was intercepted but that happens to the best of QB's, even at the NFL level. The other interception was off Strong's hands and should have been caught IMO.
As for the completion %, he has been clearly coached to throw it away if he does not have a viable target. He smartly does this by throwing it out bounds and on some occasions throwing it short of the receiver to the ground. His % is his % but how anyone could hold those intentional missed throws against his performance is mind-boggling
It is, but I'd rather have a guy who needs to reign in a live arm, then a guy who can't make the throws he can.