Golden State is playing like ***.
- Thread starter Hanmudog
- Start date
Having two all stars injured, Cleveland had to ratchet up the defense to stay with Golden State. It's worked and oh yeah, they have Lebron James. The key to stopping Curry is don't let him have anything easy. Yes he will make a riculous shot now and then but he gets worn down easily when it's a grind it out style game.
This series is pissing me off.
If Tony could just hit a jumper, or if somebody would have sacked up and gotten physical with Curry, then the Grizz would be rolling up the Cavs right now. Mozgov and Thompson would be getting abused by the bash bros.
Oh well... At least we are watching LeBron do something insane. Y'all better pay attention. He's about to win a title with the shittiest supporting cast ever. Yeah, K-Love and Kyrie helped get them here, but this is LeBron doing what the best player ever does.
If Tony could just hit a jumper, or if somebody would have sacked up and gotten physical with Curry, then the Grizz would be rolling up the Cavs right now. Mozgov and Thompson would be getting abused by the bash bros.
Oh well... At least we are watching LeBron do something insane. Y'all better pay attention. He's about to win a title with the shittiest supporting cast ever. Yeah, K-Love and Kyrie helped get them here, but this is LeBron doing what the best player ever does.
Tony ain't hittin' no jumper, so just check that off your list
But they did need to get physical with the GS backcourt. I will buy that.
I've never been a fan of Lebron, mostly because of the Jordan comparisons. But I have been waiting for him to do something Jordanesque. He sure is making this series feel like Bulls v Lakers '91.
But they did need to get physical with the GS backcourt. I will buy that.
I've never been a fan of Lebron, mostly because of the Jordan comparisons. But I have been waiting for him to do something Jordanesque. He sure is making this series feel like Bulls v Lakers '91.
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no. no it doesn't make you wonder. at least it doesn't if you aren't gullible.
All this talk about missing open threes.
There are open threes, and there are rhythm threes, and there are shots from your comfortable spots. A good NBA defense may give you open looks, but they're going to give them to you with guys in spots where they aren't the most comfortable.
Not only that, but how many screens did a guy have to run through and how hard is he having to work on both ends of the floor before he gets that open look?
There is a reason Golden State is missing those open looks.
A big part of that is that they really like to get up and down the floor, and they like to get quick transition looks before the defense is completely set. Cleveland is making them wait a full 24 seconds on defense every possession, and the majority of shots are at the rim, meaning very few long rebounds, few opportunities to push the pace, and they're forced into a half court offense.
Then, on defense, Cleveland is working hard to disrupt their shooters and get them off their spots. That's why the shots aren't falling.
Personally, I'm pulling for the Cavs. I'd love to see Lebron win this title with Irving and Love on the bench in suits, just because it would put to rest all the talk about him not being able to do it on his own. He's having to try to win this series more on his own than MJ ever was for any of his Finals appearances.
I saw a stat where 200 of Cleveland's 291 points so far have come either from Lebron or off Lebron assists in this series. I'd be curious to see that number for just Games 2 and 3 to see if it's an even higher percentage without Kyrie. Point being, he's successfully carrying a team like we've rarely ever seen before.
There are open threes, and there are rhythm threes, and there are shots from your comfortable spots. A good NBA defense may give you open looks, but they're going to give them to you with guys in spots where they aren't the most comfortable.
Not only that, but how many screens did a guy have to run through and how hard is he having to work on both ends of the floor before he gets that open look?
There is a reason Golden State is missing those open looks.
A big part of that is that they really like to get up and down the floor, and they like to get quick transition looks before the defense is completely set. Cleveland is making them wait a full 24 seconds on defense every possession, and the majority of shots are at the rim, meaning very few long rebounds, few opportunities to push the pace, and they're forced into a half court offense.
Then, on defense, Cleveland is working hard to disrupt their shooters and get them off their spots. That's why the shots aren't falling.
Personally, I'm pulling for the Cavs. I'd love to see Lebron win this title with Irving and Love on the bench in suits, just because it would put to rest all the talk about him not being able to do it on his own. He's having to try to win this series more on his own than MJ ever was for any of his Finals appearances.
I saw a stat where 200 of Cleveland's 291 points so far have come either from Lebron or off Lebron assists in this series. I'd be curious to see that number for just Games 2 and 3 to see if it's an even higher percentage without Kyrie. Point being, he's successfully carrying a team like we've rarely ever seen before.
The Cavs are playing great defense but Golden State is still missing a ton of wide open shots. One state I saw on Curry was that he was shooting around 28% on uncontested threes. Not taking anything away from Cleveland because they have way outhustled Golden State but Curry is either hurt or just choking it away.
Of course it also helps that no one on Cleveland has to guard Bogut, Green, or Barnes beyond 8 feet from the hoop.
If by fix, you mean that Lebron is getting hacked every trip but only getting a call half the time, then yea, I get your point.
Officiating has been horrible, but I don't think it's been necessarily slanted one way, and certainly Cleveland isn't getting a particularly favorable landscape.
The Uncontested shot stat is extremely misleading.
It's a big one for Golden State fans to throw out there, but they were doing the same thing against Memphis when Tony Allen was playing fully healthy and before Conley's lack of conditioning caught up to him. When you're getting harassed more than usual, those "uncontested" shots are often not easy shots.
It's a big one for Golden State fans to throw out there, but they were doing the same thing against Memphis when Tony Allen was playing fully healthy and before Conley's lack of conditioning caught up to him. When you're getting harassed more than usual, those "uncontested" shots are often not easy shots.
I know. I was just thinking the same thing last night. While a ton of credit has to be given to Cleveland for what's happened so far in this series, it's infuriating to watch Golden State continue to throw up brick after brick in this series while they were playing like best shooting team of all time during the Memphis matchup. Sure, the Grizz forced them to play out of their element for a couple games, but aside from those two, the Warriors knocked down an average of 14 threes/game at a near 47% clip during the Memphis series. Again, gotta give credit where credit is due to the Cavs, but anyone that has watched the Finals so far can see the GS is missing a bunch of wide open shots.
One thing I will say about LeBron... I don't think he'll ever be one of my favorites, but I made a statement a few years ago about how he had forfeited his ability to be considered an all time great in my mind as soon as he formed the superpower in Miami. If he seriously brings home a ring to Cleveland with this supporting case, I will gladly rescind that comment. This has been unbelievable
One thing I will say about LeBron... I don't think he'll ever be one of my favorites, but I made a statement a few years ago about how he had forfeited his ability to be considered an all time great in my mind as soon as he formed the superpower in Miami. If he seriously brings home a ring to Cleveland with this supporting case, I will gladly rescind that comment. This has been unbelievable
I am not even a Golden State fan but I have eyes. They are missing wide *** open looks.
And we are not talking about Kyle Korver or Jimmy Butler here. We are talking about the MVP who is one half of what some were calling one of the best backcourt combos of all time.
But again, you have to ask why that's happening.
Curry doesn't just miss those shots, and I don't think it's just some sort of lack of confidence. The defense has to be playing a role in at least making him think or something. That, or the lack of pace to the game is messing with his shooting rhythm, which I believe is the real culprit.
We'll see what happens in the rest of the series, but I would guess that Cleveland can keep this thing mucked up barring injuries, just because they can afford to continue to play this "give it to Lebron and run down the shot clock" offense.
Memphis could make Golden State work to score, but they still needed ball movement (like a normal NBA team) to get an offense going. That meant they couldn't wait until late in the shot clock to run an offensive set. It also meant there were turnover opportunities. It also meant the offensive players were having to expend a good bit of energy on the offensive end of the floor. It also meant the offense may have been out of position or unsure of where their man is when they transitioned to defense.
All those things played into helping Golden State at least establish some pace. Lebron is a different story. Every possession, his teammates get 15-20 seconds of rest, meaning they can expend ALL their energy chasing players defensively. There are very few turnover opportunities, because the ball stays with one player the bulk of the possession. The shots are mostly coming at the rim, meaning very few long rebound opportunities. Also, because Lebron forces all the help at the rim, very few Golden State players have an opportunity to leak out. They've almost all got to go 90 feet every possession. All these things completely eliminate the "Pace" part of Golden State's "Pace and Space" offense.
I'm not sure what Golden State can do to get that pace back if Lebron is going to be content to milk the clock and go one on one every possession. By doing that though, Lebron takes the entire rhythm out of the Golden State offense, and it makes it tougher for them to go on those 8-0 runs that they'll put together over a 30-60 second period. There is no flow to the game, and when there is no flow, guys will miss shots they normally make, even uncontested ones.
Curry doesn't just miss those shots, and I don't think it's just some sort of lack of confidence. The defense has to be playing a role in at least making him think or something. That, or the lack of pace to the game is messing with his shooting rhythm, which I believe is the real culprit.
We'll see what happens in the rest of the series, but I would guess that Cleveland can keep this thing mucked up barring injuries, just because they can afford to continue to play this "give it to Lebron and run down the shot clock" offense.
Memphis could make Golden State work to score, but they still needed ball movement (like a normal NBA team) to get an offense going. That meant they couldn't wait until late in the shot clock to run an offensive set. It also meant there were turnover opportunities. It also meant the offensive players were having to expend a good bit of energy on the offensive end of the floor. It also meant the offense may have been out of position or unsure of where their man is when they transitioned to defense.
All those things played into helping Golden State at least establish some pace. Lebron is a different story. Every possession, his teammates get 15-20 seconds of rest, meaning they can expend ALL their energy chasing players defensively. There are very few turnover opportunities, because the ball stays with one player the bulk of the possession. The shots are mostly coming at the rim, meaning very few long rebound opportunities. Also, because Lebron forces all the help at the rim, very few Golden State players have an opportunity to leak out. They've almost all got to go 90 feet every possession. All these things completely eliminate the "Pace" part of Golden State's "Pace and Space" offense.
I'm not sure what Golden State can do to get that pace back if Lebron is going to be content to milk the clock and go one on one every possession. By doing that though, Lebron takes the entire rhythm out of the Golden State offense, and it makes it tougher for them to go on those 8-0 runs that they'll put together over a 30-60 second period. There is no flow to the game, and when there is no flow, guys will miss shots they normally make, even uncontested ones.
They need this to go 6 or 7 games for the revenue. You won't see a 4-0 Finals series.
The NBA needs a good series and they are trying to make it one.
Which is a better story and would pull viewers: After Kyrie goes down the Cavaliers team fate is put on Lebron's shoulders as he leads them through the finals OR the Warriors whooping *** 4 straight games?
Do you think lebron and curry sat down with NBA officials....
....and scripted all of this? Kind of like wrestling?
....and scripted all of this? Kind of like wrestling?
If you don't watch, how do you know it's corrupt? And what exactly is Curry getting in return? It could simply be that one team has the best basketball player on the planet.
Kerr said something similar after game 2.
Basically they got open looks, but they weren't in the rhythm of the offense or at the spots they wanted them. Sometimes you notice the adjustments, like Kerr putting Bogut on Tony Allen. Sometimes you don't notice them, and that's the case with Cleveland's defense. They are denying the hell out of the ball and busting up screens, which gets the Warriors spaced wrong and out of position. Then they basically lay off where they want the ball to go and the Warriors take an open shot, but from somewhere and by someone who is uncomfortable and frustrated. So what looks like a good shot that Golden State is inexplicably missing, is really a shot they settled for and don't shoot as well.
I don't know how Kerr responds to this other than letting Lebron drive at will and go for 65-70 points, then pushing the gas back down the floor. Golden State needs it to be a 130-120 final score.
Basically they got open looks, but they weren't in the rhythm of the offense or at the spots they wanted them. Sometimes you notice the adjustments, like Kerr putting Bogut on Tony Allen. Sometimes you don't notice them, and that's the case with Cleveland's defense. They are denying the hell out of the ball and busting up screens, which gets the Warriors spaced wrong and out of position. Then they basically lay off where they want the ball to go and the Warriors take an open shot, but from somewhere and by someone who is uncomfortable and frustrated. So what looks like a good shot that Golden State is inexplicably missing, is really a shot they settled for and don't shoot as well.
I don't know how Kerr responds to this other than letting Lebron drive at will and go for 65-70 points, then pushing the gas back down the floor. Golden State needs it to be a 130-120 final score.
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This. Memphis gave the blueprint to beat Golden State. Grind it out and slow the game down and limit the total number of possessions in a game. And they missed wide open shots in the Memphis series too. Curry had a wide open airball in game 3.
I could care less about either team and have spent this time watching True Detective again in prep for the new season coming up this month.
I always like
when people ***** about a sport, and then follow it with "i don't watch it." That's code for "I have no idea what I'm talking about."
when people ***** about a sport, and then follow it with "i don't watch it." That's code for "I have no idea what I'm talking about."
I think this is partly true. The big difference for the Cavs though is that they have Lebron, which means they can REALLY grind the game to a halt.
If Memphis tried to go late shot clock on every offensive possession, they'd end up with rushed or bad shots, because Zach Randolph or Marc Gasol isolations aren't as efficient as Lebron isolation drives. Lebron can play "last possession of the quarter" on every possession, and their offense can still be solid.
Maybe Kerr will find an answer, but if they come out and score 20 points in the first quarter in Game 4, I think you'll have your answer to whether they have any options to counter what Cleveland is doing.
That's, to me, one of the fun things about the NBA playoffs, watching the chess match. Usually one team eventually exploits a weakness the other is unable to counter, and the series is over. Sometimes they're evenly matched enough that neither can get a hold of the series.
Right now, Cleveland has Golden State figured out, and they could easily be up 3-0. If Golden State doesn't find some sort of crack for Game 4, this series is over.
Kyrie's injury and LBJ leading the Cavs to the championship would be the better story for sure.
But just because that would be a better story doesn't mean its happening. Nothing so far would show it is fixed. GSW almost came back last night in the last few minutes. For you to suggest all that was staged would require Curry to be able to decide when to make and miss shots. He would have to decide to make that 3pt shot coming off of 4 screens and to miss that wide open shot he got when he 'stole' the inbounds pass.
Sorry, but it just doesn't work that way.
not quite like wrestling..but getting there. I am not saying it's not entertaining but I can see right through it. Different strokes for different folks.
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