Great post from BDJ by dawgbone33...
- Thread starter dawgstudent
- Start date
I agree we should never have lost those games. But even at 20 wins, winning one in the SEC tourney would still keep us out. We would need to make it to Sunday to have a shot. So, it boils down to one game anyway.
It is my opinion that 20 wins from an SEC team doesn't mean squat anymore given the weakness of the conference as a whole and the typical weak OOC schedules.State lost those 4 inexcusable games because our team and coaches suck arse. Even had the Bullfrauds won all 4 of those games against turrible competition, it wouldn't mean they were a good team. I really think that any team from the SEC with a legitimate reason to be in the Big Dance this year needs to have 22 or moreregular season victories. The conference is just awful. That is why I think a good coach could come in to Starkville and have lots of early success. It remains to be seen if a new coach could develop the talent already on the roster and recruit new talent. RS cannot coach a lick. His recruiting has been very spotty of late. I'd love to see new blood on the coaching staff next year. I do not expect anything other thanmore of the same though. Wash, rinse, repeat.
with those4 wins. Our RPI would still be somewhere in the 70-80 range. Definitely on the outside looking in.
..argument about why this should be Stansbury's last rodeo @ MSU.
dawgbone33 doesn't make me angry about the team; dawgbone33 makes me angry that a freakin' SEC coach lost to 2 glorified high schools then placed an exclamation point on an already ruined season by then losing to the Mutt Tigers & the Jeff Tigers.
dawgbone33 doesn't make me angry about the team; dawgbone33 makes me angry that a freakin' SEC coach lost to 2 glorified high schools then placed an exclamation point on an already ruined season by then losing to the Mutt Tigers & the Jeff Tigers.
dawgstudent said:
while Bama is very improved, them not getting their **** together earlier may cost them an NCAA bid. The key to Grant is seeing if they regress any and then come on again like this season, or do they pick up from where they left off this season and have a truly good season.
He usually coaches great in the SEC tourney but then loses stupid games like AU and LSU this year. He also usually sucks in the NCAAs. I would like to see someone come in and instill discipline. Stans recruits well but he also benefits from usually getting the best players in MS. He usually doesn't get any big recruits from any where else. Occasionally he will get someone like Mario Austin or Winsome Fraiser.
If you're going to look at those games and play the "what if" game, you also need to look at:
Appalachian St. - won by 2
Troy - won in overtime
LSU - won by 1
Tennessee - won by 1
If you're going to say we coulda woulda shoulda won those 4 games, you've got to also admit that we coulda woulda shoulda lost these 4. The fact is our record is pretty much right where it should be based on our performance. And there's no excuse for that.
Appalachian St. - won by 2
Troy - won in overtime
LSU - won by 1
Tennessee - won by 1
If you're going to say we coulda woulda shoulda won those 4 games, you've got to also admit that we coulda woulda shoulda lost these 4. The fact is our record is pretty much right where it should be based on our performance. And there's no excuse for that.
you shouldn't have lost to crappy teams. There is no reason we should have lost those 4 games. There is a reason we should have won the ones you mentioned.
is exactly why I love playing from behind in the first half and hate having a big lead in the first half, which is an absolutely perfect sign of bad coaching.
I put that in the horrible loss column, primarily because Sidney (and Bailey) would've played that game if our coach instilled discpline in his teams.</p>
We got bitchslapped by a mid level wac team. That is EASILY our worst loss of the year. ETSU and FAU have been roaming around the top 100 rpi. Hawaii has had to play their *** off to get to 157. They were in the high 200s when we lost to them.
It's ridiculous to think we should have won our close losses while completely ignoring that we had just as many close wins. Essentially you're saying we should have a perfect record in close games. You don't see winners playing the what if game. Only losers. That's why it's a losers game. You're just making excuses for a ****** season.</p>
I would replace the LSU loss with the Hawaii loss in that group of 4 as being really bad. I know LSU is a horrible team RPI wise but for some reason LSU doesn't look like the lousy team they are when we have played them this year. We were VERY fortunate to beat them in BR and when they beat us in Starkville they were knocking down LONG shots (some contested some not) like they were a really good team. Yes, we played like crap on defense in that game, but we've played like crap on defense in a ton of our games this year. LSU still made the shots when a lot of the teams we've played, even like last night, have not at least to that degree. Hawaii, on the other hand, didn't play very well at all when they beat us its just that was the game after the brawl in the stands and I think we were just totally disjointed as a team at that time.
Stans can coach. For example, Look at how many baskets we get out of TOs. The problem has been managing his talent's egos and selfishness.
I get as frustrated as anyone. Before we fire him though. We better have someone better waiting to take the job. There are plenty of examples of universities firing good coaches over a few bad seasons and the next hire makes matters worse. OM and Cutcliff....UK and Tubby/Gilespe and Arkansas and Nolan Richardson....supposedly Pelphry was the 15th coach they asked to take that job after firing Heath.
I get as frustrated as anyone. Before we fire him though. We better have someone better waiting to take the job. There are plenty of examples of universities firing good coaches over a few bad seasons and the next hire makes matters worse. OM and Cutcliff....UK and Tubby/Gilespe and Arkansas and Nolan Richardson....supposedly Pelphry was the 15th coach they asked to take that job after firing Heath.
without bost, sidney and bailey and coming off a "national incident" - I just say that's a loss that I can somewhat forgive.
Here's the recap I posted a couple of weeks ago. This year will just be added to the list of disappointing years.
Last year was a massive, massive disappointment. It
started with Rider, continued with Richmond and Western Kentucky, built
steam with Alabama and Arkansas, and came to a head at Auburn and on
senior day. We had no business being in the NIT. That is another fact.
I
don't judge our seasons on the final record. Fair or not, I judge it on
one thing: how good I think we should have been. In truth, that's what
we all do whether we realize it or not. Some people have unrealistically
high expectations. Some people, in my estimation, are satisfied with
far too little. I'd like to think I am a moderate on this issue. I don't
expect another Final Four, ever. I do expect to be in the NCAAs about
1/2 to 2/3 of the time with about half of those as a decent seed (6 or
better). If you do that, you will eventually advance. I could live with
the earlier flameouts if we had followed that up with stronger
performances, but our regular season play made advancing past the first
round difficult, and the second round nearly impossible. The regular
season is why I say we are not meeting expectations. At least MY
expectations.
For example.....
The year before when we
won the SECT, same story. That team was good enough to win four games in
four days, but not good enough to beat Charlotte, San Diego (not San
Diego State mind you, San Diego), a down Washington State team, a way
down Texas Tech team, or a down Cincinnati team. We also closed out
February losing 5 of 6, putting us in position to HAVE to win the
tourney to make the NCAAs. I am glad we did, but we got shipped cross
country and got our *** whipped. Another disappointing season.
The
year before that (2008) was probably the most disappointing of all.
Rhodes, Gordon, Varnado, Stewart, Hansbrough, etc......easily the most
talent Stans has had other than 2004. We lost every single
non-conference game of any consequence that year. Clemson, Southern
Illinois, Miami (OH), Miami (FL), and throw in South Alabama to boot.
OK, we beat Missouri, who finished 16-16 and way out of the NCAAs. I
won't complain about being 12-4 in the league, other than to say I can
guarantee you no player would score 40+ points on my team while making 7
straight threes or whatever it was. He might shoot a lot of FTs, but he
would not hit that many threes. So then we go off to Atlanta as a
favorite to win the SECT, and get beat by Georgia. Georgia. Not Mark
Fox's UGA. Dennis Felton's overmatched squad playing their second game
of the day. The crappy non-conference and the SEC choke cost us at least
one line in seeding in the NCAAs, and we end up an 8 seed where we
promptly bowed out in the second round. Of all the seasons to gripe
about, this one deserves the most.
The year prior, 2007, guess
what we did? Lost all of our notable non conference games, then
struggled to an 8-8 SEC record. But we won the West!! NIT that year too,
which is probably where the talent deserved.
In 2006 we were just pitiful after losing so many players. Every school needs a rebuilding year now and then. This was ours.
Other
than 2008, the 2005 season was the next biggest disappointment. A first
team All American returning, along with Frazier, Power, Harper and
Ervin. There was even a young Charles Rhodes on the bench had we chosen
to play him. We lost our two most notable non conference games that year
too, and beat up on a bunch of nobodies. We struggled to a 9-7 SEC
record, and ended up an 8 seed, eventually losing to Duke. No doubt
Timmy and Branden were huge losses, but from a 2 seed to an 8 seed with
what we had coming back? Disappointing.
This is why we have to
take a hard look at the overall state of the program. I would love to
see Rick reverse this and have us challenging for a top 2-3 spot in the
SEC and an NCAA seed better than 8. But the past six years plus this one
are not very encouraging.
Last year was a massive, massive disappointment. It
started with Rider, continued with Richmond and Western Kentucky, built
steam with Alabama and Arkansas, and came to a head at Auburn and on
senior day. We had no business being in the NIT. That is another fact.
I
don't judge our seasons on the final record. Fair or not, I judge it on
one thing: how good I think we should have been. In truth, that's what
we all do whether we realize it or not. Some people have unrealistically
high expectations. Some people, in my estimation, are satisfied with
far too little. I'd like to think I am a moderate on this issue. I don't
expect another Final Four, ever. I do expect to be in the NCAAs about
1/2 to 2/3 of the time with about half of those as a decent seed (6 or
better). If you do that, you will eventually advance. I could live with
the earlier flameouts if we had followed that up with stronger
performances, but our regular season play made advancing past the first
round difficult, and the second round nearly impossible. The regular
season is why I say we are not meeting expectations. At least MY
expectations.
For example.....
The year before when we
won the SECT, same story. That team was good enough to win four games in
four days, but not good enough to beat Charlotte, San Diego (not San
Diego State mind you, San Diego), a down Washington State team, a way
down Texas Tech team, or a down Cincinnati team. We also closed out
February losing 5 of 6, putting us in position to HAVE to win the
tourney to make the NCAAs. I am glad we did, but we got shipped cross
country and got our *** whipped. Another disappointing season.
The
year before that (2008) was probably the most disappointing of all.
Rhodes, Gordon, Varnado, Stewart, Hansbrough, etc......easily the most
talent Stans has had other than 2004. We lost every single
non-conference game of any consequence that year. Clemson, Southern
Illinois, Miami (OH), Miami (FL), and throw in South Alabama to boot.
OK, we beat Missouri, who finished 16-16 and way out of the NCAAs. I
won't complain about being 12-4 in the league, other than to say I can
guarantee you no player would score 40+ points on my team while making 7
straight threes or whatever it was. He might shoot a lot of FTs, but he
would not hit that many threes. So then we go off to Atlanta as a
favorite to win the SECT, and get beat by Georgia. Georgia. Not Mark
Fox's UGA. Dennis Felton's overmatched squad playing their second game
of the day. The crappy non-conference and the SEC choke cost us at least
one line in seeding in the NCAAs, and we end up an 8 seed where we
promptly bowed out in the second round. Of all the seasons to gripe
about, this one deserves the most.
The year prior, 2007, guess
what we did? Lost all of our notable non conference games, then
struggled to an 8-8 SEC record. But we won the West!! NIT that year too,
which is probably where the talent deserved.
In 2006 we were just pitiful after losing so many players. Every school needs a rebuilding year now and then. This was ours.
Other
than 2008, the 2005 season was the next biggest disappointment. A first
team All American returning, along with Frazier, Power, Harper and
Ervin. There was even a young Charles Rhodes on the bench had we chosen
to play him. We lost our two most notable non conference games that year
too, and beat up on a bunch of nobodies. We struggled to a 9-7 SEC
record, and ended up an 8 seed, eventually losing to Duke. No doubt
Timmy and Branden were huge losses, but from a 2 seed to an 8 seed with
what we had coming back? Disappointing.
This is why we have to
take a hard look at the overall state of the program. I would love to
see Rick reverse this and have us challenging for a top 2-3 spot in the
SEC and an NCAA seed better than 8. But the past six years plus this one
are not very encouraging.
I think we would be on the bubble. Without FIU, ETSU, Aub., and LSU on the list as "bad losses," really, our only blemish would be the Hawaii' mess (Our only "bad loss" would probably be Hawaii' coming in December). The other losses would be Virginia Tech (knocked off Duke earlier in the week and definitely a contender this year in the ACC) and St. Mary's (very good team). So I think our resume would put us on the bubble, but we would definitely been in that "last 4 in, first 4 out" category.
