Grove Bowl Attendance

[jackstefano]

in the next 3-5 years. I've seen enough OM and MSU football to be fairly certain that neither team can stand much success over a long period.

 

[rmphan]

First, there are a lot of students and recent graduatesfrom UM law that would disputethat theonly reason they don't have jobs isthat they haven't networked.

Second, your and dubmass regarding the "average" salary of $50k. Salaries of law school graduates are bi-modal. You have a small cluster of people that make agreat salary out of law school, then a second, much larger grouping that is below themean, but basically contains the median. In other words,a plot of the distribution ofgraduate salaries doesn't look like a bell curve, but has two "humps" (I'm simplifying so you can understand). Soa $50k average is useless information to most people. They need to know what the median is, what the top distribution is, andto have a reasonable guess as to whether they think they will be in that top grouping, or (more likely) in the grouping below the average. So when you considermost law school students did reasonably well in undergrad and could have gotten a decent job after college,foregoing three years of income (and probably paying tuition) in order to get a job somewhere south of $50k doesn't look that great.

Third, howyou define mid-career matters.I'm guessing theypick a number of years into the profession (or maybeinclude people that have practiced between X and X+5 years). One thing I doknow is your definition is wrong,as there's no way toknow who is really half-way through their career. Butagain, assuming that most law schoolgraduates had a fairly high aptitute, it's not unreasonable toexpect lots of them would have been successful in another field, without giving up three years of income to go to lawschool and without (for a lot of them) working ****** hours.

1) I don't care what they would dispute. They're in the mental minority, like you.

2) I'm "and dubmass". Might want to rethink that premise, shitbag. You don't seem to get it. We're talking about MEANS, not MEDIANS. How is this so difficult for you to comprehend. I'm not going to explain to you everything wrong with your previous post, you can figure it out for yourself.

3) How do you think I define mid-career, half-way through a career. Surely it's not that a law degree is incredibly versatile in combination with high aptitude, it's that they found jobs DESPITE having a law degree. Makes perfect sense to me. As far as MOST law graduates working "******" hours and having to "give up" 3 years of income to get a degree that takes them places beyond a B.A. (or B.S.), well, I can't help you with understanding the stupidity of that argument.

As
a current third year law student at Ole Miss, I can guarantee that it's
alot worse than you even realize. First off, out of the current
classabout to graduateit's estimated that only between 5-15% of the
class has a job or any type of interest period.

With that being
said, I will go ahead and cut you off and admit that I don't have a job,
so if you want to just classify me as a disgruntled law student who
just didn't network or put any effort into it, go ahead.

1) Jobs don't come to you. I'm sure you realize that, I
shouldn't have to type that. 5-15% doesn't sound right. Regardless,
those who are the motivated, organized types. The rest will find jobs
after graduating and passing the bar. That's just the way it works.

2) I won't. However, with all the judicial clerkships and public jobs
available to start you out, I don't why you haven't found employment.
I'm not going to judge why that is, but statistics say, you will.

You
very obviously have less than 0% of an idea of what you are talking
about. As a fairly recent graduate of a Mississippi law school, I can
tell you without a doubt that students are not graduating from law
school with jobs right now. As someone with a job in the legal market in
Mississippi, I can tell you without a doubt that law firms are not
hiring at anything resembling the same rate they used to in the past. I
can also tell you that attorneys are retiring later and later due to the
fact that they need to keep working so that they can continue to live
the lifestyle that they and their families are accustomed to.

I don't know where you got your "knowledge", but it obviously wasn't gained firsthand from experience.

I'd love to live in your world, where apparently I'd be making all sorts of money simply because I have a law degree.

1)
Oh, I have a 0% idea what I'm talking about. Ok. Students are not
graduating with jobs. Ok. So all students students aren't graduating
with jobs. So you have some statistics to prove that right? Whoa. You
have a job, but few else from OM do? Wow. Lucky you, there must be a lot
of unemployed people. How do they continue to operate a law school, if
most of the graduates aren't finding jobs. Give me a break. As far as
firms not hiring at the same rate, well no ****. Nobody said it was
rosy. That's what you said, I said people were making on average 50k.
(Not a median, a MEAN) I have facts to prove that. Do you?

2)
Yea, in my world, people are making all sorts of money. 50k is a lot of
money. How did you get into law school again? Talking to you is the equivalent of talking to a doctor that can't find a job because they don't know how to treat a hemorrhaged infection.

I am
also a law student at Ole Miss and the job market is tough. That said,
the 5-15% that graduate with jobs is a little misleading. Unless you are
in the top 20% you do not typically find a job until after you pass the
bar. With that in mind, most of my friends graduated over the last two
years without jobs. After passing the bar, each of them had a job within
3 months in the city of their choice as an attorney or in a judicial
clerkship. None of these students were top 30% in their class.

If
you do well in school and are flexible (ex. refuse to work anywhere but
Oxford) the jobs are still out there. The difference is the amount of
networking necessary and the hours required to find the jobs that are
not posted. That is a stark contrast to my exit from engineering at
State with 7 job offers and a sub 3 GPA. Regardless, no first year
attorney is making $160k in Mississippi or Tennessee unless they fit a
niche and have unprecedented work experience. The starting salaries for
the big boys range from $85 - 110k.

Thanks for the rationality in a post.

 

[thatsbaseball]

nm

 

[SnakePlissken]

and we have Mullen. I think you can throw out the history books on both of us with these two as our head coaches. I think the last 3 years have shown the stark differences between the two coaches, fan bases, public perception in the state and nationally, and the schools overall.

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

You spend half this thread talking about how there are plenty of jobs and law students who are not dumbasses should have no problems finding a job. Then in response to me, you completely reverse yourself and say that the market isn't "rosy".

I'm not sure you have done anything here other than paint the broadest strokes possible so you can fit your argument into it and further you own opinion that you are actually smart.

"Keep in mind though, after 2 years of grad, 100% of Law graduates have jobs or are furthering education." - jobs doing what? so 100% of law graduates aren't homeless bums within 2 years of law school, great stat.

"1) Quoting me an article from the Arkansas times with a small sample size will not prove your point. Wrong." - so you challenge people to show you stats and back up their points and then trash it when they do. Where exactly do you get your stats anyway? You do realize that any stat or number can be manipulated to fit into different arguments, right? You say that your figures are better because they are from the official US Labor cite or wherever, and then immediately move into a point about how we're not talking about places other than the South. Nice, very nice.

"1) I don't care what they would dispute. They're in the mental minority, like you." - damn, you really got him there.

Hey, I like to come online and pretend to be a badass from time to time too, so I'm alright with this thread.

 

[rebelthustra]

nm

 

[SnakePlissken]

[No message]

 

[rebelthustra]

weren't quite as bad, but considering the hype around his hire, the results were worse. 20-34 at OM.

 

[SnakePlissken]

That actually seems pretty stupid.

 

[rebelthustra]

nm

 

[State82]

cutting-edge mathematics skills? UM? I'm pretty sure that 15,000 jobs lost out of 779,000 is almost 2.0%, not almost 0.01%. Just saying. All that other drivel, I have no idea.

 

[rmphan]

You spend half this thread talking about how there are plenty of jobs and law students who are not dumbasses should have no problems finding a job. Then in response to me, you completely reverse yourself and say that the market isn't "rosy".

I'm not sure you have done anything here other than paint the broadest strokes possible so you can fit your argument into it and further you own opinion that you are actually smart.

"Keep in mind though, after 2 years of grad, 100% of Law graduates have jobs or are furthering education." - jobs doing what? so 100% of law graduates aren't homeless bums within 2 years of law school, great stat.

"1) Quoting me an article from the Arkansas times with a small sample size will not prove your point. Wrong." - so you challenge people to show you stats and back up their points and then trash it when they do. Where exactly do you get your stats anyway? You do realize that any stat or number can be manipulated to fit into different arguments, right? You say that your figures are better because they are from the official US Labor cite or wherever, and then immediately move into a point about how we're not talking about places other than the South. Nice, very nice.

"1) I don't care what they would dispute. They're in the mental minority, like you." - damn, you really got him there.

Hey, I like to come online and pretend to be a badass from time to time too, so I'm alright with this thread.

1) Yea, I definitely said "there are plenty of jobs for law students who are not dumbasses". Yea, direct quote there. Sorry, that's not even a paraphrase of what I said. Did you graduate from law school? You must have a reading comprehension problem. As far as things not being rosy, no ****. Do you think the medical profession is rosy? There's not a $#+%$*# job in America that's "rosy". Those are your words, not mine. I'm painting a realistic picture. You're on the turnip truck to hell with this, almost nobody can find a job, doom and gloom horse ****. Yea, this is all about who's smart and as far as painting broad brushes, pot meet kettle. Do you really believe that few of your class mates are finding jobs. What an absurd generalization. You've got to be on drugs.

2) Yes, 100% of law graduates have jobs within 2 years and based upon salary figures, they're doing fine. However, according to your previous post, none of them are finding reasonably well paying jobs. Yea, right.

3) I said the sample size of that article was irrelevant. Nothing was trashed, that's your interpretation. Did you not get anything that's being discussed. I said that New Jersey had nothing to do with the Mississippi job market. Further, I said labor statistics prove that point. Then you go off on some beaten path about statistics fitting into an argument. Yea, here's the problem, it's the federal government. Are you concluding that the federal government is covering up for legal employment statistics. Well, then why not just assume the government is covering up for doctors salaries. Surely they could be reporting lower salaries to damage insurance companies, which are deflating their wages. Yea, conspiracy theories are fun.

cutting-edge
mathematics skills? UM? I'm pretty sure that 15,000 jobs lost out of
779,000 is almost 2.0%, not almost 0.01%. Just saying. All that other
drivel, I have no idea.

Thanks for the correction. As far as your editorialized drivel, I have no idea what to make of it either.

 

[lawdawg02]

Tyler coached those 2 teams to 8 total losses over those 2 years.

 

[jackstefano]

I'd forgotten how pitiful a coach Nutt hasshown to be over the years, and all of the winning seasons that Mullen has amassed. Even with that realization, it seems that one of your more esteemed colleagues here tends to agree with me.

 

[thatsbaseball]

nm

 

[HammerOfTheDogs]

Thank goodness for the tort reform law. Maybe those new law skool gradumates can go out and get a real job that produces something, instead of scheming for ways to destroy capitalism in Mississippi.

 

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

You have spent a lot of energy trying to convince everyone that it's not. Congrats on your job in the Career Services department, or wherever it is that you work. You can tell people they are dumb all you want to make yourself feel better, but the law schools are, however, expanding class sizes each year, and the number of jobs available is not growing right now. That's the entire argument.

I do have some amazing beach-front property in Arizona for sale, you interested?

I'm sure you are a great lawyer, so congrats and good luck to you.