Gun violence

[MountaineerWV]

Been doing some thinking. I grew up in the 1970's, a time where kids could buy candy "cigarettes" at the grocery store. New federal laws that prohibit this, along with other initiatives, have cut the teen smoking rates down to an all-time high.

Now, would something like this work on gun violence? Think about it, there are "toy guns" everywhere. I know we all probably had BB guns, too. Do these toy guns hook youngsters and teens to guns, the same way it seems that candy cigarettes, cheap tobacco, misleading ads, etc., hooked teens to smoking?

I'm sure there will be a couple that bash this......but it's just a thought.......

 

[Mntneer]

Been doing some thinking. I grew up in the 1970's, a time where kids could be candy "cigarettes" at the grocery store. New federal laws that prohibit this, along with other initiatives, have cut the teen smoking rates down to an all-time high.

Now, would something like this work on gun violence? Think about it, there are "toy guns" everywhere. I know we all probably had BB guns, too. Do these toy guns hook youngsters and teens to guns, the same way it seems that candy cigarettes, cheap tobacco, misleading ads, etc., hooked teens to smoking?

I'm sure there will be a couple that bash this......but it's just a thought.......

Toy guns aren't nearly as prevalent as they were 30-40 years ago. I remember my MP5 Submachine gun that was an automatic water gun. It was full size, all black, battery powered.... You'd never find something like it today. We're in the age of kids getting suspended from school for forming a gun out of a poptart.

I'm an avid shooter and competitor, but my kids have zero interest in guns. So aside from drilling safety into their minds constantly, I don't try and force (or even encourage) their use. IMHO schools should cover basic gun safety, so kids learn to stay away from them, to know the 4 rules, to respect their power.

 

[Shirley Knott]

Toy guns aren't nearly as prevalent as they were 30-40 years ago. I remember my MP5 Submachine gun that was an automatic water gun. It was full size, all black, battery powered.... You'd never find something like it today. We're in the age of kids getting suspended from school for forming a gun out of a poptart.

I'm an avid shooter and competitor, but my kids have zero interest in guns. So aside from drilling safety into their minds constantly, I don't try and force (or even encourage) their use. IMHO schools should cover basic gun safety, so kids learn to stay away from them, to know the 4 rules, to respect their power.

Unfortunately folks spend so much time texting on their dazzle berries that they have forgotten the art of conversation. Just looking someone in the eye has become a reason to draw down on someone.

 

[Boomboom521]

Toy guns aren't nearly as prevalent as they were 30-40 years ago. I remember my MP5 Submachine gun that was an automatic water gun. It was full size, all black, battery powered.... You'd never find something like it today. We're in the age of kids getting suspended from school for forming a gun out of a poptart.

I'm an avid shooter and competitor, but my kids have zero interest in guns. So aside from drilling safety into their minds constantly, I don't try and force (or even encourage) their use. IMHO schools should cover basic gun safety, so kids learn to stay away from them, to know the 4 rules, to respect their power.

Well said

 

[eerdoc]

Toy guns aren't nearly as prevalent as they were 30-40 years ago. I remember my MP5 Submachine gun that was an automatic water gun. It was full size, all black, battery powered.... You'd never find something like it today. We're in the age of kids getting suspended from school for forming a gun out of a poptart.

I'm an avid shooter and competitor, but my kids have zero interest in guns. So aside from drilling safety into their minds constantly, I don't try and force (or even encourage) their use. IMHO schools should cover basic gun safety, so kids learn to stay away from them, to know the 4 rules, to respect their power.

Sure there were, probably, more 'toy' guns when we were kids. There were also a lot of real ones. Most families owned at least one riffle or shotgun and/or pistol. Hunting was a way of life for a large number of those growing up in WV. Difference was that the parents (and grandparents) taught gun appreciation and safety. Actually preached it. The kids understood that western gun fights were not real but entertaining to watch. Kids understood that guns were for hunting and self protection. There was respect and appreciation for what guns are and their appropriate uses around the home. In short, parents did their jobs of training and teaching their children the proper handling of fire arms. There was respect for the laws and all but the fringe worked hard to follow it and teach others to do likewise. What is different now? Loss of respect for almost everything (including, in too many cases, oneself). Guns have become that which thee fringe accumulates and all others are told the guns are evil (not those who use them inappropriately). Punishment for those who misuse guns seems less of a deterrent to future similar acts than is was in the past. Solution--complicated, but teaching respect for persons and the proper handling and use of guns would be a great step forward.

 

[Airport]

Been doing some thinking. I grew up in the 1970's, a time where kids could be candy "cigarettes" at the grocery store. New federal laws that prohibit this, along with other initiatives, have cut the teen smoking rates down to an all-time high.

Now, would something like this work on gun violence? Think about it, there are "toy guns" everywhere. I know we all probably had BB guns, too. Do these toy guns hook youngsters and teens to guns, the same way it seems that candy cigarettes, cheap tobacco, misleading ads, etc., hooked teens to smoking?

I'm sure there will be a couple that bash this......but it's just a thought.......

I think that some of the fault for gun violence lies strictly in the way culture has made it OK to shoot people. The same way that candy cigarettes and tV ads made it OK to smoke. We have music and videos that depict gun violence as innocent. Nobody knows the pain it inflicts on the family. The drug culture has increased gun violence. We will always have crazy people but guns are too easy to get for those with mental defect. Until we address both of these, will the PC police allow the authorities to label those with mental defect accurately, is a big question.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

I think the biggest thing that has curbed smoking (in general, not just young people) is education. People have been made more aware of the health risks. I think the same approach can be taken with guns. Make the NRA fund educational commercials. They don't have to say "guns are bad", simply educate people about how deadly they can be...properly securing them, etc. They can also educate people about the different types of guns and their various uses.

I never bought the ******** that the religious right tried to push about song lyrics and video games leading to violence. The same applies to guns; people can be exposed to them and their use but not "misuse" them. I guess I am saying the same thing about cigarettes; people can be exposed to others using them (on television) but ultimately education is the difference. And if people still decide to use cigarettes, they at least have made an informed decision. They are aware of the health risks and have chosen to take that risk.

 

[Boomboom521]

It's good to see there is a lot of common ground on this issue.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

It's good to see there is a lot of common ground on this issue.

It helps when the subject is broached correctly and not with demonizing at the onset. It helps when both sides are educated on the issues.

Mnteer and I are probably the two most ardent supporters of the 2nd amendment on here. We both agree some changes need to occur. WTE made the best point that the likely solution or at least a major contributing one might not have anything at all to do with guns.

 

[moe]

I think the biggest thing that has curbed smoking (in general, not just young people) is education. People have been made more aware of the health risks.

That and $5+/pack.

 

[TarHeelEer]

Mnteer and I are probably the two most ardent supporters of the 2nd amendment on here.

There are some others, but at least in one case, he's just as paranoid as he is a supporter.

 

[Boomboom521]

It helps when the subject is broached correctly and not with demonizing at the onset. It helps when both sides are educated on the issues.

Mnteer and I are probably the two most ardent supporters of the 2nd amendment on here. We both agree some changes need to occur. WTE made the best point that the likely solution or at least a major contributing one might not have anything at all to do with guns.

If the demonizing comment was meant for me directly, I do try to not throw the first punch. Some on here post thread after thread demonizing one end of the spectrum though, maybe you don't see it cause you're on the other end as well. Most of your posts however, are thoughtful, balanced, and fair. You do shove sometimes too

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

If the demonizing comment was meant for me directly, I do try to not throw the first punch. Some on here post thread after thread demonizing one end of the spectrum though, maybe you don't see it cause you're on the other end as well. Most of your posts however, are thoughtful, balanced, and fair. You do shove sometimes too

Wasn't directed at you. It was directed at anyone who starts the discussion with a demonizing position and founded in rhetoric vs actual knowledge.

The easiest way to spot this is when someone brings up the Assault Weapons ban as a necessity. This, despite >90% of gun fatalities being a result of hand guns. This, despite us having one for 10 years and it producing no meansurable gains. This, despite the AWB addressing 90% aesthetic issues and only 10% functionality (magazine capacity) issues.

 

[Boomboom521]

Wasn't directed at you. It was directed at anyone who starts the discussion with a demonizing position and founded in rhetoric vs actual knowledge.

The easiest way to spot this is when someone brings up the Assault Weapons ban as a necessity. This, despite >90% of gun fatalities being a result of hand guns. This, despite us having one for 10 years and it producing no meansurable gains. This, despite the AWB addressing 90% aesthetic issues and only 10% functionality (magazine capacity) issues.

I read an article the other day that outlined close to 6,000 average gun accidents involving children per year, close to 1,500 deaths.....probably mostly from handguns.

 

[TarHeelEer]

I read an article the other day that outlined close to 6,000 average gun accidents involving children per year, close to 1,500 deaths.....probably mostly from handguns.

The development I live in had unlock cars burglarized a couple weeks ago. SEVEN firearms were stolen. I truthfully want to find those people and beat them.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

I read an article the other day that outlined close to 6,000 average gun accidents involving children per year, close to 1,500 deaths.....probably mostly from handguns.

How many of those were suicides, gang violence, etc? But I'd wager around 90% or more were from handguns.

 

[Boomboom521]

How many of those were suicides, gang violence, etc? But I'd wager around 90% or more were from handguns.

38% were suicides, 6% unintentional, 53% homicides.....71% were assault, 21% unintentional.

 

[TarHeelEer]

38% were suicides...71% were assault

So at least 9% of suicides were assault?

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

38% were suicides, 6% unintentional, 53% homicides.....71% were assault, 21% unintentional.

I don't do math in public. I don't think you should either. Hahaha

 

[Boomboom521]

So at least 9% of suicides were assault?

Sorry....38% were suicides, 6% unintentional, 53% homicides of the average deaths.....71% were assault, 21% unintentional of the average injuries

 

[Mntneer]

The development I live in had unlock cars burglarized a couple weeks ago. SEVEN firearms were stolen. I truthfully want to find those people and beat them.

That blows my mind. Who would leave a firearm in their car at night? I left mine in my car one evening (had taken it off for a meeting a government building and left it in my car), and realized it when I went to change and secure it. Immediately went back to my car in the locked garage to get it.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

That blows my mind. Who would leave a firearm in their car at night?

Whatever you leave in a vehicle is the same as setting it out in the open in the middle of your driveway.

 

[TarHeelEer]

That blows my mind. Who would leave a firearm in their car at night? I left mine in my car one evening (had taken it off for a meeting a government building and left it in my car), and realized it when I went to change and secure it. Immediately went back to my car in the locked garage to get it.

Not even leaving it in the car, but leaving the car unlocked. No windows were broken to get into these cars. Un freaking believable.

 

[Boomboom521]

Not even leaving it in the car, but leaving the car unlocked. No windows were broken to get into these cars. Un freaking believable.

Now what if I said that these people are forced to relinquish their right of gun ownership. Never to be licensed again?

 

[TarHeelEer]

Now what if I said that these people are forced to relinquish their right of gun ownership. Never to be licensed again?

Constitution > your law

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Now what if I said that these people are forced to relinquish their right of gun ownership. Never to be licensed again?

Only if you made it a felony to do that, but if we start making felons for being idiots......

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

Constitution > your law

If a law like that was passed, it would be no different than convicted felons losing their right to possess firearms.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

If a law like that was passed, it would be no different than convicted felons losing their right to possess firearms.

Right. So you are going felonize (is that a word?) stupidity. Careful.

 

[Airport]

I think the biggest thing that has curbed smoking (in general, not just young people) is education. People have been made more aware of the health risks. I think the same approach can be taken with guns. Make the NRA fund educational commercials. They don't have to say "guns are bad", simply educate people about how deadly they can be...properly securing them, etc. They can also educate people about the different types of guns and their various uses.

I never bought the ******** that the religious right tried to push about song lyrics and video games leading to violence. The same applies to guns; people can be exposed to them and their use but not "misuse" them. I guess I am saying the same thing about cigarettes; people can be exposed to others using them (on television) but ultimately education is the difference. And if people still decide to use cigarettes, they at least have made an informed decision. They are aware of the health risks and have chosen to take that risk.

Would it be ok with you if Planned Parenthood paid for infomercials instead of giving money to democrats? As long as we are talking about making an organization pay for something. Especially one that takes as much government money as Planned Phood does.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

Right. So you are going felonize (is that a word?) stupidity. Careful.

Nope. I never said that.

 

[TarHeelEer]

Would it be ok with you if Planned Parenthood paid for infomercials instead of giving money to democrats? As long as we are talking about making an organization pay for something. Especially one that takes as much government money as Planned Phood does.

Doesn't matter, they're gonna not be getting public funds very soon.

 

[Airport]

Doesn't matter, they're gonna not be getting public funds very soon.

Just seeing if it was ok with him, being a fair guy

 

[jjwv_mu_rivals]

I think that some of the fault for gun violence lies strictly in the way culture has made it OK to shoot people. The same way that candy cigarettes and tV ads made it OK to smoke. We have music and videos that depict gun violence as innocent. Nobody knows the pain it inflicts on the family. The drug culture has increased gun violence. We will always have crazy people but guns are too easy to get for those with mental defect. Until we address both of these, will the PC police allow the authorities to label those with mental defect accurately, is a big question.

I'm a big heavy metal music type of guy. Blows my students' minds when they find out. Some of the bands I love to listen to would be considered "liberal" or at least a type of protest band (ex. Rage Against the Machine). I don't agree with the argument that music has led to anymore violence than just stupidity and the lack of parenting. One of my favorites is Marilyn Manson. He took a heavy public hit (from both sides) after Columbine.

When either political party starts pointing fingers at music or video games or movies as "problems", that's when I wonder if they understand free speech or expression. Violence can be depicted on your body through tattoos, should we ban tattoos?

I'm not a gun owner, but I respect those that do own a gun (my parents and family own them). I went through a gun safety class when I was in middle school. I've went through trainings for how to handle a shooting in a school by the state police (by far the greatest training I have ever had). I understand the Constitution. I respect it. I don't respect those who want to violate one or more of our Bill of Rights to protect another (stop and frisk, labeling music as "violent", etc).

 

[Airport]

I'm a big heavy metal music type of guy. Blows my students' minds when they find out. Some of the bands I love to listen to would be considered "liberal" or at least a type of protest band (ex. Rage Against the Machine). I don't agree with the argument that music has led to anymore violence than just stupidity and the lack of parenting. One of my favorites is Marilyn Manson. He took a heavy public hit (from both sides) after Columbine.

When either political party starts pointing fingers at music or video games or movies as "problems", that's when I wonder if they understand free speech or expression. Violence can be depicted on your body through tattoos, should we ban tattoos?

I'm not a gun owner, but I respect those that do own a gun (my parents and family own them). I went through a gun safety class when I was in middle school. I've went through trainings for how to handle a shooting in a school by the state police (by far the greatest training I have ever had). I understand the Constitution. I respect it. I don't respect those who want to violate one or more of our Bill of Rights to protect another (stop and frisk, labeling music as "violent", etc).

Rap is far different than any "music" that we have seen before. Is it happenstance that gun violence has increased with increased drug use, rap, misogynist rants in music, poor taste in one form or the other of depiction of murder of our elected leaders?

 

[jjwv_mu_rivals]

Rap is far different than any "music" that we have seen before. Is it happenstance that gun violence has increased with increased drug use, rap, misogynist rants in music, poor taste in one form or the other of depiction of murder of our elected leaders?

So you think we should get rid of something that you don't like because you THINK it's a problem? If you feel like this about rap music then I'll claim that country music is what's causing the number of underage drinking incidents and DUI's. And divorce rates, too. [cheers]

 

[TarHeelEer]

So you think we should get rid of something that you don't like because you THINK it's a problem? If you feel like this about rap music then I'll claim that country music is what's causing the number of underage drinking incidents and DUI's. And divorce rates, too. [cheers]

They did candy cigarettes and realistic looking play guns. Why not rap?

 

[jjwv_mu_rivals]

They did candy cigarettes and realistic looking play guns. Why not rap?

Why not country music? I bet 80% of all music in that genre mentions drinking a beer. Kids listen to it. Where would it stop? Ban everything!

I'm not a big fan of rap music, but I do like some. Eminem is extremely controversial and has gotten political before in songs. He's got a right to express himself. If we blame tv or music for our problems then we are creating the ultimate problem: lack of personal responsibility.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

Rap is far different than any "music" that we have seen before. Is it happenstance that gun violence has increased with increased drug use, rap, misogynist rants in music, poor taste in one form or the other of depiction of murder of our elected leaders?

Rap? Hey old man, it's called Hip Hop.

I'll grant you there is a correlation of gun violence to the drug trade/industry but to attempt to link gun violence to misogynist rants in music is foolish.

Rap, now Hip Hop, has been around since the late 70s. Ever heard of Sugar Hill Gang? Ever heard of Aerosmith? Ever heard of Red Hot Chili Peppers? Rap/Hip Hop has spilled over into other genres, including Pop and Rock.

I think there is an Ozzie Osborn concert you should be protesting.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

I'm a big heavy metal music type of guy. Blows my students' minds when they find out. Some of the bands I love to listen to would be considered "liberal" or at least a type of protest band (ex. Rage Against the Machine). I don't agree with the argument that music has led to anymore violence than just stupidity and the lack of parenting. One of my favorites is Marilyn Manson. He took a heavy public hit (from both sides) after Columbine.

When either political party starts pointing fingers at music or video games or movies as "problems", that's when I wonder if they understand free speech or expression. Violence can be depicted on your body through tattoos, should we ban tattoos?

I'm not a gun owner, but I respect those that do own a gun (my parents and family own them). I went through a gun safety class when I was in middle school. I've went through trainings for how to handle a shooting in a school by the state police (by far the greatest training I have ever had). I understand the Constitution. I respect it. I don't respect those who want to violate one or more of our Bill of Rights to protect another (stop and frisk, labeling music as "violent", etc).

I love Rage, Clutch, White Zombie, etc.

Did you ever check out Street Sweeper Social Club? It's basically Rage without Zack.

 

[Shirley Knott]

Now what if I said that these people are forced to relinquish their right of gun ownership. Never to be licensed again?

Rap is far different than any "music" that we have seen before. Is it happenstance that gun violence has increased with increased drug use, rap, misogynist rants in music, poor taste in one form or the other of depiction of murder of our elected leaders?

Is it happenstance that these increases occur alongside the increase in numbers of single parent homes and less parental intervention in child rearing?