Has there ever been a Dandy Dozen Sweep?

DAWGPOUNDROK · Aug 16, 2012

Has any school ever taken all 12 Dandy Dozen players?<div>
</div><div>just wondering...</div>

DAWGPOUNDROK · Aug 16, 2012

Has any school ever taken all 12 Dandy Dozen players?<div>
</div><div>just wondering...</div>

Maroon Eagle · Aug 16, 2012

Seriously, the answer is, of course, no.

Johnson85 · Aug 16, 2012

There's always going to be either a token private school player isn't SEC caliber or a skill player that is a good highschool player that just doesn't have the size or speed or whatever to play in the SEC.

BiscuitEater · Aug 16, 2012

Johnson85 said:
There's always going to be either a token private school player isn't SEC caliber or a skill player that is a good highschool player that just doesn't have the size or speed or whatever to play in the SEC.

on the flip side ... some of the 'most wanted' and highest rated have never produced in Div 1.

cofreb · Aug 16, 2012

comment made me curious, so I looked back. There have been 5 private school Dandy Dozen players in the last 15 years, Will Overstreet (played in the NFL), Will Arnold (2x All-SEC), Cam Lawrence (preseason All-SEC), Cody Prewitt (starting as a soph for OM at FS), and Ryan Buchanan (tbd, but best offer list {as a QB} of any MS QB since Jason Campbell).

Buford T. Justice · Aug 16, 2012

Turner Center All Star said:
comment made me curious, so I looked back. There have been 5 private school Dandy Dozen players in the last 15 years, Will Overstreet (played in the NFL), Will Arnold (2x All-SEC), Cam Lawrence (preseason All-SEC), Cody Prewitt (starting as a soph for OM at FS), and Ryan Buchanan (tbd, but best offer list {as a QB} of any MS QB since Jason Campbell).

Good point;
Will Overstreet played 50% of the defensive snaps as a true freshman on a national championship team.
Will Arnold was signed by Saban and was a badass on the offensive line.
Cam Lawrence doing well.

Was LSU RB Stevan Ridley not a dandy dozen? He was an academy player (named All-SEC over Richardson, Ingram, Ballard, and Bolden).

cofreb · Aug 16, 2012

Rod Walker didn't want to cheapen the significance of being named DD by including an 1st-Team all SEC, 3rd Round Draft Pick MPSA Running Back.

Buford T. Justice · Aug 16, 2012

I looked back and Ridley was not on the Dandy Dozen. The MPSA players have all panned out (small sample size of course). It is the public school players who have bombed (Jazzmen Guy, Anthony Summers, Pat Patterson, just to name a few that come to mind.).

Buford T. Justice · Aug 16, 2012

A few years back they had 4 quarterbacks on the Dandy Dozen in one year. They were Tyler Russell, Cameron Lawrence, Chris Garrett, and Clayton Moore. One is at Jackson State (Moore) and Garrett is MIA. Meanwhile Russell leads an SEC offense and Lawrence leads an SEC defense.

Johnson85 · Aug 16, 2012

I'll admit I don't pay a lot of attention to the dandy dozen each year, but I thought there was a private school player almost every year. Shocked there's only one every 3 years.

How many of the Dandy Dozen don't get offers from MSU and OM?

klerushund · Aug 16, 2012

<div>In Alabama almost all the private schools compete in the same association with public schools. I wish MS would do that.</div>

engie · Aug 16, 2012

I posted this awhile back elsewhere and found it applicable here...

1A private school /=/ 1A public school. Equal out the classification, and the MAIS would compete on every level.

MHSAA enrollment(9th-12th):
6A: 1080+
5A: 760-1079
4A: 485-759
3A: 305-484
2A: 197-304
1A: 54-196

MAIS enrollment(9th-12th)
Prep - 543
JA - 392
Pres Chr - 280
Hillcrest - 276
Washington - 264
Parklane - 244
Starkville - 219
Copiah - 208
MRA - 200
Mag Heights - 173
Brook Aca - 133

So, if you threw the MAIS into MHSAA, you've got 1 4A, 1 3A, 5 2A, and a TON of 1A schools.

Prep would compete in 4A. JA would compete in 3A. MRA would wreck **** in 2A. BA and Mag Heights would compete in 1A. No doubt.

MRA is 3 people away from being a 1A school. Forest Williams would have a dynasty on 1A public school competition.

Of these numbers, MRA seemed VERY low... thought for sure they were the 3rd largest MAIS school in the state.

fishwater99 · Aug 16, 2012

That is not really a problem for the private school players..

Maroon Eagle · Aug 16, 2012

And they just opened a new elementary school building.

codeDawg · Aug 16, 2012

It would take a huge recruiting effort to flip all the selections one school did not already have.

00Dawg · Aug 16, 2012

is that you multiply academy headcount by 1.5 to determine classification. Thisnegatesany potential advantages in recruiting outside the school's immediate area.

Todd4State · Aug 16, 2012

Isn't on that list.

engie · Aug 16, 2012

I just picked out a bunch of MAIS schools to illustrate a point... was originally a part of the "private can't compete with public" debate...

Buford T. Justice · Aug 16, 2012

00Dawg said:
is that you multiply academy headcount by 1.5 to determine classification. Thisnegatesany potential advantages in recruiting outside the school's immediate area.

I've never liked that idea. Private schools do have the potential advantage of recruiting outside the immediate area. Public schools have the advantage of offering everyone free tuition.

615dawg · Aug 16, 2012

MHSAA enrollment(9th-12th): 6A: 1080+ 5A: 760-1079 4A: 485-759 3A: 305-484 2A: 197-304 1A: 54-196 MAIS enrollment(9th-12th) Prep - 543(814) JA - 392(588) Pres Chr - 280(420) Hillcrest - 276(414) Washington - 264(396) MRA - 200(300)<div>
</div><div>So taking the private schools with a 1.5 enrollment index would place Jackson Prep in 5A, Jackson Academy in 4A, PCS, Washington and Hillcrest in 3A, and MRA on the edge of 2A.</div><div>
</div><div>Possible division teams:</div><div>Jackson Prep would compete with Ridgeland, Pearl, Provine, Lanier, Callaway, etc. Prep could be competitive in winning their division almost immediately, but could not hold court with Starkville, Picayune at first.</div><div>JA would compete with Florence, Richland, Germantown, Raymond, etc. JA would win their division immediately, and possibly compete on a state level.</div><div>PCS would be in with Collins, Pass Christian, Sumrall, etc. They might could compete for a 4 seed out of that division.</div><div>Washington would be in with Leflore, East Side, Charleston and would struggle to make the playoffs.</div><div>Hillcrest would be in with Forest, St. Andrew's and McLaurin, and could actually be more competitive in their division.</div><div>MRA would get Pisgah, Lake, Puckett, and a natural rivalry with St. Joe. MRA would be competitive statewide off the bat.</div>

patdog · Aug 16, 2012

One other advantage private schools have is that virtually all of their students have good parental support. Not that plenty of people don't become good athletes without it, but the odds are better for those that do.

patdog · Aug 16, 2012

The MHSAA sets the cutoffs between each class to get 32 teams in 6A and 5A and then equalize the number of teams in the 4 smaller classes. If you dumped a lot of MAIS schools into MHSAA, the cutoffs would drop. So MRA would go from being 2A currently to 3A. I think they just need to go ahead and do it. A friend at work's son played baseball for MRA middle school last year. They had a road game at Columbus Heritage on a school night. That's over 5 hours of travel time on a school night so a bunch of 13-year olds could play 7 innings of baseball. That's just ridiculous.

Maroon Eagle · Aug 16, 2012

...so that 80-something football-playing MAIS schools can be included.

The easy one is to make a Division B for 8-man football teams, which would currently be the smaller MAIS Class A schools and MSD but once an enrollment level is reached, schools would have to play 11-man football.

The other one is to create a new 7A level which would be made up of the top 40 schools by enrollment (current 6A) and expand 6A's (old 5A) capacity so that there's equal representation in that class as in 1A - new 5A.

patdog · Aug 16, 2012

There's only 32 in 6A & 5A and about 49 in each of the other classifications. You could easily keep 6A at 32 (the enrollment gaps are too large to really expand this class), expand 5A to 48 and then let the other 4 have about 64 each. That's 8 teams per district (except for 5A which would have only 6), which is about right.

klerushund · Aug 16, 2012

And that factor hasn't hurt many private schools in AL

Annaa · Aug 16, 2012

I don't think there has been.

RocketDawg · Aug 16, 2012

Kind of a thread hijack, but it said the new school is built to handle simultaneous computer online usage by the students..

The Huntsville City School system this year has gone to all computers ... no textbooks. K-3 get iPads and 4-12 get laptops. The iPad kids can't take them home, but the older students can and are expected to. Huntsville is the largest system in the country to go all-electronic.

What do you guys think about that? Is it an innovatively great thing to do, or is it destined for failure?

Todd4State · Aug 16, 2012

bobbylabonte said:
00Dawg said:

is that you multiply academy headcount by 1.5 to determine classification. Thisnegatesany potential advantages in recruiting outside the school's immediate area.

Click to expand...

I've never liked that idea. Private schools do have the potential advantage of recruiting outside the immediate area. Public schools have the advantage of offering everyone free tuition.

6A is considered the highest level of football in the state and that's appealing to a lot of players. I know Madison Central has had several players "transfer"in because of that. As has Olive Branch.

The reality is public schools recruit every bit as much as private schools- if not moreso. And the private schools have to worry about the public schools just as much as the public schools have to worry about the private schools.

Todd4State · Aug 16, 2012

615dawg said:
MHSAA enrollment(9th-12th): 6A: 1080+ 5A: 760-1079 4A: 485-759 3A: 305-484 2A: 197-304 1A: 54-196 MAIS enrollment(9th-12th) Prep - 543(814) JA - 392(588) Pres Chr - 280(420) Hillcrest - 276(414) Washington - 264(396) MRA - 200(300)<div>
</div><div>So taking the private schools with a 1.5 enrollment index would place Jackson Prep in 5A, Jackson Academy in 4A, PCS, Washington and Hillcrest in 3A, and MRA on the edge of 2A.</div><div>
</div><div>Possible division teams:</div><div>Jackson Prep would compete with Ridgeland, Pearl, Provine, Lanier, Callaway, etc. Prep could be competitive in winning their division almost immediately, but could not hold court with Starkville, Picayune at first.</div><div>JA would compete with Florence, Richland, Germantown, Raymond, etc. JA would win their division immediately, and possibly compete on a state level.</div><div>PCS would be in with Collins, Pass Christian, Sumrall, etc. They might could compete for a 4 seed out of that division.</div><div>Washington would be in with Leflore, East Side, Charleston and would struggle to make the playoffs.</div><div>Hillcrest would be in with Forest, St. Andrew's and McLaurin, and could actually be more competitive in their division.</div><div>MRA would get Pisgah, Lake, Puckett, and a natural rivalry with St. Joe. MRA would be competitive statewide off the bat.</div>

Does the MHSAA do the 1.25 or whatever for schools like St. Andrew's, Hartfield Academy, etc? I could be wrong, but I don't think they do. If the MHSAA doesn't- they need to do it for everyone, which could change where some of those schools end up potentially as far as class.

I've seen many private schools play- including Prep several times. Based on how they've done against Pearl, I think they belong in 4A and would be a better fit there.

Todd4State · Aug 16, 2012

And then the eight man teams could be class -1A. It would be kind of funny to watch Coach Justice do the math with his "This isn't _ A- it's 5A football speech".

What I would like to see as a fan is do away with the MAIS. Have eight districts in 6A and make them regional oriented- the Jackson metro area call it the Big 8 with MC, Ridgeland, Pearl, NWR, etc., a JPS district- maybe add Canton to them for a basketball super conference to give them eight teams, 6A North with Tupelo, South Panola, Starkville, West Point, etc., have a Memphis area district with Olive Branch and etc., a Delta district, a Gulf Coast district, a South District with teams like Meridian and the Hattiesburg schools, and then a District with the Vicksburg/Natchez area schools called the Little Dixie because of their Civil War history.

Have the top four teams in each district make the playoffs (32 teams) and add a round so that there are five rounds to the playoffs. Theoretically, if you go undefeated you would go 16-0. (four non-district, seven district games, and five playoff games)

I'm not sure how the numbers would work out in the lower classifications- but I would keep 3A, 4A, and 5A at four districts with 32 total teams in it. 1A and 2A might vary depending on the exact number of teams- I'm not sure what the flood of small private schools would be in exact numbers. In a perfect world, I would like for it to be 32 teams for 1A and 2A as well. And then for the eight man teams- just have their own league. There aren't many of them anyway.

Maroon Eagle · Aug 17, 2012

How good are they historically? If they're really good, I think it's a good thing. If they don't get the support typically, I wonder if whatever new support that they get will be maintained.

Maroon Eagle · Aug 17, 2012

Maroon Eagle · Aug 17, 2012

1A and 2A are going to have schools that don't play football which would skew things. I wonder if you could have different classifications according to the sport? Say a 1A football team by student population and 2A in other sports.

GloryDawg · Aug 17, 2012

Wizard.sixpack · Aug 17, 2012

the fact that he even made the DD was a shock to me and him starting as a sophomore at Ole Miss further reinforces how much they suck..

Has there ever been a Dandy Dozen Sweep?

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