Help the billionaires

[TC_Nole_OX]

Naomi Klein on Tech Billionaires: ‘The Money Is Making Them Fascist’

 

[firegiver]

billionaire pay the same effective tax rate as everyone else in society. The game is rigged.

THIS ^^^^^^

 

[Moogy]

Naomi Klein on Tech Billionaires: ‘The Money Is Making Them Fascist’

DSA say: "Having a lot of money makes you fascist ... that's why we want control of all the money."

 

[firegiver]

Even my libertarian friends understand this. Justice Roberts is a fvcking disaster.

 

[TC_Nole_OX]

 

[baltimorened]

Even my libertarian friends understand this. Justice Roberts is a fvcking disaster.

so our leaders have to figure a way within income tax to identify income/gains of people over a certain level of weather and tax them on that income. I'm not a fan of a wealth tax/income tax hybrid.

And if we could come up with a way to do that, I doubt if many Americans would be against it.

 

[firegiver]

so our leaders have to figure a way within income tax to identify income/gains of people over a certain level of weather and tax them on that income. I'm not a fan of a wealth tax/income tax hybrid.

And if we could come up with a way to do that, I doubt if many Americans would be against it.

Yeh, and its not hard. Its just that the billionaires will be furious, but that will be funny so I say we do it.

 

[scotchtiger]

Yeh, and its not hard. Its just that the billionaires will be furious, but that will be funny so I say we do it.

What is the proposal exactly that matches what Ned said? I haven't seen one that isn't a wealth tax.

If net worth > than $1B, then tax on ordinary income > X is Y% and tax on cap gains > A is B%? Also, no tax increase on anyone with a net worth <$1B? How is net worth established?

 

[firegiver]

What is the proposal exactly that matches what Ned said? I haven't seen one that isn't a wealth tax.

If net worth > than $1B, then tax on ordinary income > X is Y% and tax on cap gains > A is B%? Also, no tax increase on anyone with a net worth <$1B? How is net worth established?

Net worth would be an aggregate of property and stocks or some combination like that.
you know, how we do it today when we calculate our own net worth.... its not rocket surgery.

 

[scotchtiger]

Net worth would be an aggregate of property and stocks or some combination like that.
you know, how we do it today when we calculate our own net worth.... its not rocket surgery.

Yea I get that. But how do you value non-public businesses for example? Or when do you mark highly volatile stocks? Will the IRS be combing through portfolios? LLCs? Do you appraise real estate each year?

And what about the other part of my question? I'm genuinely interested because this actually gets at what you and other dems seem to care about (billionaires), whereas other tax increase proposals absolutely do not (raising SS cap, raising taxes on people making $400K).

 

[firegiver]

Yea I get that. But how do you value non-public businesses for example? Or when do you mark highly volatile stocks? Will the IRS be combing through portfolios? LLCs? Do you appraise real estate each year?

And what about the other part of my question? I'm genuinely interested because this actually gets at what you and other dems seem to care about (billionaires), whereas other tax increase proposals absolutely do not (raising SS cap, raising taxes on people making $400K).

How do we value non public businesses today?

volatile stocks? I'm sure we can figure that out by taking a mean over the year or some other statistical measurement. When you are talking about BILLIONS of dollars, this seems like painting the pinky toe on a giant.

The other part of your question: If net worth > than $1B, then tax on ordinary income > X is Y% and tax on cap gains > A is B%? Also, no tax increase on anyone with a net worth <$1B? How is net worth established?


I really couldn't grok (the actual use of the word, not the AI) this. Can you clean it up because it reads confusing with your use of greater than > , in some places. Idk can you please use seperate lines for statements I think its just not clicking for me the way you are portraying it.

 

[baltimorened]

How do we value non public businesses today?

volatile stocks? I'm sure we can figure that out by taking a mean over the year or some other statistical measurement. When you are talking about BILLIONS of dollars, this seems like painting the pinky toe on a giant.

The other part of your question: If net worth > than $1B, then tax on ordinary income > X is Y% and tax on cap gains > A is B%? Also, no tax increase on anyone with a net worth <$1B? How is net worth established?

repeating that I don't know how you can calculate real income
I really couldn't grok (the actual use of the word, not the AI) this. Can you clean it up because it reads confusing with your use of greater than > , in some places. Idk can you please use seperate lines for statements I think its just not clicking for me the way you are portraying it.

repeating that I don't know how you value "income"...I guess you could count loans against assets as income, gains in stock prices as income (even though not realized) etc.

But one thing I can see is a multitude of lawsuits. We all know that no one single person will evaluate the "income" for every billionaire. There will be multiple people involved, each following a specific criteria. But we all know that not everyone sees everything the same way no matter the printed criteria. So I can see Musk suing because some item on his income was evaluated differently from Bezos or Zuckerberg...

In reality, it will be the same for taxing wealth...not everyone will be evaluated the same way, and that opens the door for lawsuits...and theses guys can afford the best lawyers...

So "tax the billionaires" sort of roles off the tongue when a politician uses the slogan to impress a crowd. But doing it based our tax code will not be easy if at all possible

 

[scotchtiger]

How do we value non public businesses today?

volatile stocks? I'm sure we can figure that out by taking a mean over the year or some other statistical measurement. When you are talking about BILLIONS of dollars, this seems like painting the pinky toe on a giant.

The other part of your question: If net worth > than $1B, then tax on ordinary income > X is Y% and tax on cap gains > A is B%? Also, no tax increase on anyone with a net worth <$1B? How is net worth established?


I really couldn't grok (the actual use of the word, not the AI) this. Can you clean it up because it reads confusing with your use of greater than > , in some places. Idk can you please use seperate lines for statements I think its just not clicking for me the way you are portraying it.

Rephrased:

Confirming that we are not raising taxes on anyone with a net worth less than $1B, since billionaires are the target.

If so, then if someone's net worth is greater than $1B, we will implement new tax rates for those specific individuals. Those tax rates will need to kick in at certain levels. So the questions are, at what income and/or cap gains level do billionaire tax rates kick in, and what are those new tax rates?

 

[firegiver]

Rephrased:

Confirming that we are not raising taxes on anyone with a net worth less than $1B, since billionaires are the target.

If so, then if someone's net worth is greater than $1B, we will implement new tax rates for those specific individuals. Those tax rates will need to kick in at certain levels. So the questions are, at what income and/or cap gains level do billionaire tax rates kick in, and what are those new tax rates?

We should flat tax net wealth over a billion. Or progressive tax . It doesn't matter either will suffice for debate purposes.

 

[scotchtiger]

We should flat tax net wealth over a billion. Or progressive tax . It doesn't matter either will suffice for debate purposes.

How do you tax wealth? Few have $1B+ sitting in cash. Should a billionaire be forced to sell ownership in the company he built and hand it over to the government? What if it's not publicly traded? How do you carve off pieces for the feds? What if the wealth is all tied up in illiquid assets?

Are you concerned about the slippery slope of wealth confiscation? What happens when the masses want more money (and they will)? Confiscate wealth from everyone with $100M? Then $10M? Then everyone gives a piece of their wealth to the government each year?

We have a progressive tax system. Families making $95K per year pay a mere 12% marginal rate while families in the top bracket pay a whopping 37%. Are you suggesting adding another tier? At what level and how much? I do think that is far more reasonable and practical than wealth confiscation.

 

[baltimorened]

How do you tax wealth? Few have $1B+ sitting in cash. Should a billionaire be forced to sell ownership in the company he built and hand it over to the government? What if it's not publicly traded? How do you carve off pieces for the feds? What if the wealth is all tied up in illiquid assets?

Are you concerned about the slippery slope of wealth confiscation? What happens when the masses want more money (and they will)? Confiscate wealth from everyone with $100M? Then $10M? Then everyone gives a piece of their wealth to the government each year?

We have a progressive tax system. Families making $95K per year pay a mere 12% marginal rate while families in the top bracket pay a whopping 37%. Are you suggesting adding another tier? At what level and how much? I do think that is far more reasonable and practical than wealth confiscation.

seems to me that if we tax wealth every year in order to fund transfer payments at some point we run out of it

 

[scotchtiger]

seems to me that if we tax wealth every year in order to fund transfer payments at some point we run out of it

I just don’t see how a wealth tax is practical or even right. Take the large numbers away and think about it. This is something someone earned, paid taxes on and is their’s. It doesn’t belong to anyone else. And we want the federal government to be able to forcibly take it? That’s a dangerous, slippery slope.

The original income tax only applied to between 1-3% of Americans. And now we all pay. Once we invent another category of taxation, you can bet that more and more and more people will be targeted by the federal government.