Here goes...

[Captain Ron]

I don't know.. Maybe it's because I am older and wiser after sitting through 46 plus odd years of MSU football, but all I can do is chuckle when I see the "fire the coach" posts after a win.

Just like the backup QB always being the savior, the "next coach" after 5 years of the current coach, is destined to be crowned "savior". I have seen it time after time. Bob Tyler, then it was "Bully for Bellard" until he lost for a couple of years and then it was "make Emory a Memory" and then it was Felker who was 6 and 1 his first year and a hero till we were blown out 4 straight to end the season.

Then came Jackie. In his first 6 years took us to 2 straight bowls and then a losing record 3 of the next 4. In 96 when we lost to KY (as I recall) in front of a pathetic crowd at Scott field, many fans were calling for the same things that State fans love to call for.."Fire the coach" so we can have the next "savior search" to placate the fan base.

A funny thing happened after the KY loss though, the next week the Dawgs beat Bama for the first time since 6 to 3 (good ole Freddie Kitchens) and he bought himself another year. Well, after that it was really a pretty good run with winning seasons and a trip to the ATL that almost put us in New Orleans. I still wonder if we would have given in to the vocal minority back in 96 where we would be today?

I guess my point is that we aren't a Bama, he'll we aren't even an Auburn where you can build Rome overnight. We are much more on par with a Va Tech where Beamer endured some long, lean years to build a program, and the fans were perceptive enough to see the incremental improvement compared to the past and stuck with their coach.

I remember JWS losing (or was it a tie?) to Arkansas State when they were 1AA, yet the same dude won the west in 98. Some of his bad seasons looked way worse than what I have seen from Dan so far and quite frankly based on attrition, I wasn't expecting greatness this year anyway. Funny though that some who are calling for a firing were some of the same fans who were scared he was gonna leave for Florida a few years ago..

Well, there is that saying about history and being doomed to repeat it.. None of the 5 year coach firings have vaulted us to greatness, (sans JWS) yet the one who we kept after some mediocre years won the west and beat Bama multiple times.

And yes, my I am tired and my grammar sucks, but 17 I really don't care cause I waiting for Tod Jordan, Greg Plump, Derrick Tate, Mark Hudspeth, __ ______(insert your list of coaches) to save MSU football. I mean 17, it is the 5th year and all.......

 

[471dawg]

Well said...

 

[Hump4Hoops]

This dude has wisdom.

 

[121Josey]

Good post. Better perspective. But Year 5 is a shape up or ship out year. JWS hired Joe Lee Dunn in 1996. Nutt hired Malzahn in 2006. Bellotti hired Chip Kelly in 2007. Etc. Etc.

If no change is make on offense after the season...

 

[drt7891]

I guess my point is that we aren't a Bama, he'll we aren't even an Auburn where you can build Rome overnight. We are much more on par with a Va Tech where Beamer endured some long, lean years to build a program, and the fans were perceptive enough to see the incremental improvement compared to the past and stuck with their coach.

I fully understand where we are now compared to where we came from (I saw us lose to Maine, Tulane, Troy, a TERRIBLE UK team 14-13, Auburn 3-2... all at home... you get the picture)... but I think it's more than fair to ask the question... where has the incremental improvement been the last 3 years?

2011 - Lost to Auburn on a last second TD, barely beat UK and UAB, and beat UM's worst team in 2 decades to get to 6-6... beat Vandy II by 6 points in the Music City Bowl
2012 - Benefited from some AWFUL teams (auburn, Arkansas, Tennessee all were awful) to get to 8-4. Lost to Northwestern in the Gator Bowl (a game where if we had been the slightest bit excited to play in, we would have won) Our losses were complete blowouts.
2013 - So far, scored 3 points against an Oky State team that's showing to be a step above mediocre, lost to Auburn on a last second TD drive (winnable game), blown out in the 4th quarter to LSU, barely beat BGSU 21-20 with scoring no second half points.

I don't think I'm stepping out of bounds by asking where the improvement has been from season to season in any of these seasons? We are meeting expectations, but that's it. Meeting expectations is great, because lord knows we suffered through us losing to Maine and Tulane at home (only to beat Florida and Alabama those same respective seasons)... I know what it's like to be terrible and expectations are nothing more than a laughable afterthought. However, we aren't where we were then. We want respect and we want to show the SEC and the rest of the nation we are worthy of playing in this league. To gain league-wide and national respect, you have to compete and play like you deserve that respect you want. I can't say at all that we compete in a way that's worthy of that respect we want.

ETA: I would not support firing Mullen at this point. I would, however, support pressure being put on him to make some strategic changes and begin to adjust his philosophy and emphasize that some of his game, structure, and staff management strategies have not been productive (if not counter-productive). That is the message I believe needs to be communicated from the top right now.

 

[cheewgumm]

We're miss state, not ole miss. They expect to win... We know our role- doormat. Learn it, love it, live it.

 

[121Josey]

We're miss state, not ole miss. They expect to win... We know our role- doormat. Learn it, love it, live it.

Houston Nutt approves this message.

 

[Heawww]

Here, here. Most people refuse to see it. It's like their ears are closed, similar to the Israelites back in the day. This video, while not MSU, almost mirrors what goes on in Starkville:

 

[dawgatUSM]

Two years ago there was wide acceptance that this would be our rebuilding year and we all had hoped for just 6 wins in 2013. But now that the rebuilding year is here, some just want to scrap the whole thing and start from the ground up.

Should we be happy about the way we have played? No. But if we fired Mullen after what he has done here so far, it would be extremely difficult to find anybody to come here with that short if a leash.

 

[MSUCowbell]

Here, here. Most people refuse to see it. It's like their ears are closed, similar to the Israelites back in the day. This video, while not MSU, almost mirrors what goes on in Starkville:

Thanks for that Heawww. TW is totally right. Consider my attitude adjusted.
Hail State.

 

[MSUDawg25]

Improvement does not take place in even 1 year increments. It almost never means we win at least one more game with every passing year of a coach's tenure. Often we will take steps backward, be it year to year or week to week. We won eight games last year, but we really weren't as good as the two years before. We will win less than that this year, but probably be a fairly equal team to last year. Improvement is not linear. It is not measured any one simple way. We are better now than when Mullen took the job. We are better as an average over his.five years than any other five year period in history. Bowls, 7-9 win seasons, and draft picks like they are candy. Its unprecedented for us. I know I know, "poor ole MSU knowing its role." I looked it up today: Since 1940, we have had more than twice as many seasons with 4 or less wins than we have bowl seasons.

Maybe Mullen will win 2 games next year. If so, bring on Hud or whoever. Until then, he's got my full support.

 

[muddawgs]

Two years ago there was wide acceptance that this would be our rebuilding year and we all had hoped for just 6 wins in 2013. But now that the rebuilding year is here, some just want to scrap the whole thing and start from the ground up.

Should we be happy about the way we have played? No. But if we fired Mullen after what he has done here so far, it would be extremely difficult to find anybody to come here with that short if a leash.

The problem is 2 years ago everyone thought Ole Miss was going to suck, now that they are decent, we have a bunch of chicken little's around here. Bottom line is Freeze is just as human as Mullen and makes bad decisions too. That's why you had him in a pissing match with an Ole Miss student after the game. I mean **** they have a competent kicker and he gave away 3 FG attempts to Alabama to go for it on 4th down.

Bottom line coaches are human and make mistakes. Next year is Mullen's year. He will have his QB he needs for his system full time and we are only losing Perkins and Jackson. If he can't beat some *** next year, I doubt he will do anything of significance at MSU

 

[drt7891]

Like I said, I'm far from the "fire Mullen" bandwagon right now... but I don't think it's unfair to be asking questions and challenging him to make some strategic changes. Cohen made changes every year since he got here and look where it's got our baseball team. If Mullen feels no pressure from the fanbase because "well, we used to suck worse," where's the incentive to get better? My boss at work expects me to perform and go above and beyond every single day I walk in the door, even though (like you said) I may make mistakes and screw up, I hope to get better at what I do every single day. I am just having a hard time sensing Mullen is "hungry" for that improvement right now and if he's not seriously striving for that improvement day to day, year to year, that's a serious problem.

 

[Heawww]

Another great post in a great thread.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

The problem is 2 years ago everyone thought Ole Miss was going to suck, now that they are decent, we have a bunch of chicken little's around here. Bottom line is Freeze is just as human as Mullen and makes bad decisions too. That's why you had him in a pissing match with an Ole Miss student after the game. I mean **** they have a competent kicker and he gave away 3 FG attempts to Alabama to go for it on 4th down.

Bottom line coaches are human and make mistakes. Next year is Mullen's year. He will have his QB he needs for his system full time and we are only losing Perkins and Jackson. If he can't beat some *** next year, I doubt he will do anything of significance at MSU

spot on to what I been sayin

 

[DAWG61]

That's an awesome video

 

[skb124]

+1

 

[operch]

That's an awesome video

God bless Tommy West.

 

[diddog]

As far as the firing coaches goes . .

I generally agree. MSU is a hard place to win. Coach34 brazenly told me that if Mullen did have at least a .500 record in the SEC by year five, he should be fired. We agreed to that prediction because I didn't think Mullen would be anywhere close to .500 He's not. Now, he ran off to create his own website rather than have to answer to that prediction.
Mullen isn't anywhere near .500 in the SEC at the end of this year. Instead, we are likely to be either 1-7, or 2-6, and 3-5. About where we were when Mullen took over. Those are the cold, hard facts. Further, our recruiting, while improved the last two years, is not improving relative to the rest of the SEC. In fact, it is getting worse because KY and Vandy have really picked up there recruiting. I suspect that Arkansas will too, and really already has.
So, are we content being last in the SEC West, and maybe 12th or so out of 14th in the SEC? We are clearly behind Missouri now, and Ole Miss (let's not lie to ourselves here), and I suspect Arkansas will improve in the next few years. I haven't see any elite recruiting by us yet so it is unlikely to change.
I guess if that meets your expectations, then that is good enough.

 

[deadheaddawg]

Like I said, I'm far from the "fire Mullen" bandwagon right now... but I don't think it's unfair to be asking questions and challenging him to make some strategic changes. Cohen made changes every year since he got here and look where it's got our baseball team. If Mullen feels no pressure from the fanbase because "well, we used to suck worse," where's the incentive to get better? My boss at work expects me to perform and go above and beyond every single day I walk in the door, even though (like you said) I may make mistakes and screw up, I hope to get better at what I do every single day. I am just having a hard time sensing Mullen is "hungry" for that improvement right now and if he's not seriously striving for that improvement day to day, year to year, that's a serious problem.

You really think Mullen (or any head coach) needs pressure from the fan base to have the drive to win? This isn't me or you setting in some dead end office job. The man has worked his *** off to make it where his is. He is not going to go in cruise control because fans back him.

 

[was21]

I agree 100%. JWS, on a radio interview several years ago, (he's a hero to many on here) flat out stated that State would not and never will be on a par with the Floridas, Alabamas, Georgias, etc. and that if we regularly won 7 to 9 games, then that is "success" for us. I have posted it ad nauseum on this board and always catch flack for it, but be that as it may. I'll go to my grave believing it. And it doesn't bother me. And I didn't need Sherrill to tell me because I already knew it, which doesn't make me genius nor pessimist, just a realist. I like realism, it's the truth, and I'm comfortable with the truth.

 

[thatsbaseball]

If it`s all MSU`s fault for being...well MSU, why did none of the coaches you mentioned ever go on to another head coaching job ? Couldn`t the chance exist that we`ve just made incredibly bad hires over the decades ? Mullen was a great choice at the time we hired him but unfortunately seems to be just one more of our hiring screw ups. He`ll never get a wiff of a head coaching position at another major university. It`s our bad luck that we hired him but it`s not our fault he can`t run a BCS football program.

 

[Captain Ron]

If it`s all MSU`s fault for being...well MSU, why did none of the coaches you mentioned ever go on to another head coaching job ? Couldn`t the chance exist that we`ve just made incredibly bad hires over the decades ? Mullen was a great choice at the time we hired him but unfortunately seems to be just one more of our hiring screw ups. He`ll never get a wiff of a head coaching position at another major university. It`s our bad luck that we hired him but it`s not our fault he can`t run a BCS football program.

Quite a bit of irony in your post.

 

[Dawg1976]

I agree. But we won't come close to 7 wins this year and have slid steadily since the middle of last year. What are we.......something like 4-8 over the last 12 games? I realize that is a snap shot over one period of time under Mullen, but it's the latest and that is what is pissing everyone off.

 

[thatsbaseball]

I understand and appreciate your original post. I`ve just grown so damn weary of the "we are who we are and can never do any better because of that". I just don`t buy it. I know the SEC is a conference of the haves and have nots (within the conference) and I know what our position will be day in and day out relative to the super powers of the conference....I.E. we`re not Al, Fla etc etc etc . I don`t know if firing Mullen is the answer but I know what he`s put on the field for about the last ten games indicates something is badly missing from his program and his glaring game day coaching errors would be errors anywhere and the excuses are getting tired.

 

[civildawg88]

I generally agree. MSU is a hard place to win. Coach34 brazenly told me that if Mullen did have at least a .500 record in the SEC by year five, he should be fired. We agreed to that prediction because I didn't think Mullen would be anywhere close to .500 He's not. Now, he ran off to create his own website rather than have to answer to that prediction.
Mullen isn't anywhere near .500 in the SEC at the end of this year. Instead, we are likely to be either 1-7, or 2-6, and 3-5. About where we were when Mullen took over. Those are the cold, hard facts. Further, our recruiting, while improved the last two years, is not improving relative to the rest of the SEC. In fact, it is getting worse because KY and Vandy have really picked up there recruiting. I suspect that Arkansas will too, and really already has.
So, are we content being last in the SEC West, and maybe 12th or so out of 14th in the SEC? We are clearly behind Missouri now, and Ole Miss (let's not lie to ourselves here), and I suspect Arkansas will improve in the next few years. I haven't see any elite recruiting by us yet so it is unlikely to change.
I guess if that meets your expectations, then that is good enough.

This post is spot on. open your eyes people, we are being passed up by EVERYBODY in the SEC. I understand we play in the toughest conference in the USA, but if we dont start beating some teams we are underdogs to then why keeps mullen? Because he beats teams he should beat? Hell anyone can do that besides Croom.

 

[DreadNought.sixpack]

Overall I agree.

Being an MSU fan is hard. I have been a fan since the Bellard days and I have learned that as a State fan it is best not to get too emotionally invested in our football program. Enjoy the few bright spots but don't get too wrapped up in those bright spots or they will surely break your heart.

I will say this is not your fathers or grand fathers MSU. With the money pouring into yhe SEC, MSU has the money to hire coaches, build facilities and recruit with most teams in the country. Maybe we don't need to be as patient as our forefathers?

 

[was21]

I understand the frustration. To further elucidate, we should try to win all games, but if the result is averaging 6 to 8 wins, we can be somewhat disappointed but not depressed and call for the coaches head. It ain't going to get any easier. All the programs in the SEC want to win, and they're not going to get worse, only better. We can hope to continue to get better as well with the resources we have and our unique situation in Starkville.

 

[Where'sWaldo]

Did you listen to the above video?? You are one of the people West was talking about and if you think you help our program in any way thinking like this then you simply don't get it.

 

[HD6]

We can do better, but we can't do it on an Alabama time frame. That's where you're missing the point.

 

[was21]

Don't tell me what I don't get. I've been following MSU football and have suffered longer than you have been alive.

 

[ChinaDogSunflower]

Sir, I am in no way disrespecting your experience/knowledge, but if you have been a fan for so long are you truly unable to see that Dan Mullen has no in-game coaching ability? So what if he can talk a lot and beat up on BGSU/Alcorn/JSU/Troy? When you blow games like he has made a habit of doing, **** gets old. I'm just tired of not seeing any kind of hope or progression.

I know it is still early in the season. I know there is a lot of football to play. But just wait and see... By the end, there won't be a BS line that Dan can throw out to make the fans feel better about another failure of a season. Success/failure isn't always determined by your OOC success btw. To me, success is measured in conference and when you fail to compete in-conference, it is time to make some adjustments, and we know how god-turrible Dan is at that.

All I'm asking is if you can actually tell that DM is good coach or not. Or is it just more of the same for you (he does what he can with what he has, etc.)?

 

[UIUCDog]

I’m definitely not calling to fire Mullen, but one of the things that has me down on him is how soft we are. Week after week, we do not hit people hard, and we do not play inspired football. The game we play is just not a fun brand of football to watch.

Sherrill’s better teams, whether they won or lost, would knock you on your ***. That was exciting to watch. We felt like we had a chance in every game because we played physical football. Now I’ll be the first one to grant that it helped a lot that Bama, LSU, and Auburn were nowhere near what they are now and that a lot of the time we managed to miss UGA, UF, and Tennessee when they were the strongest 3 programs in the conference.

But now, we go into games against the better teams in the conference pretty much knowing that we have absolutely no chance to win or even compete. And I think a lot of that is that we are just physically manhandled from the get-go. Our style of football is soft, on offense and defense. I just don’t care for it.

 

[aTotal360]

100% agree. The history of college football has been written. You can't change it. For the most part, Bama will always be Bama. It's just the way the cookie will crumble.

Unless we have an ludicrous amount of money injected into our program and town, we will always be where we are. That's just the reality.

The next option would be to start cheating our *** off, and that ain't gonna happen. We can't even give a kid a gift card to Chili's without it costing him 1/3 of his college career.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Hell I`ll take the Ole miss time frame.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

That ol' mediocre's gonna get'cha!**