Hey Smoa$$, You forgot this Stat

[121Josey]

We all know that you just post the stats to deify your lord Chris Wilson. (And I haven't seen that kind of devotion since Tusk - speak of the devil and he shall return**)

3rd downs always tell the story. collins has a pattern of not being able to get off the field on 3rd down. 52% FIVE TWO....against teams where we stack up talent-wise.

But I've come across the stat that separates the old stale defense from the new emerging defense
College FB Team Opponent Third Down Conversions per Game

<form action="/ajax/league/v3/stats_controller.php" class="ajax-filter" method="post">

<label for="date">Date:</label> 11/13

<tbody>
</tbody>

</form> Seasons : 2003-2004 | 2004-2005 | 2005-2006 | 2006-2007 | 2007-2008 | 2008-2009 | 2009-2010 | 2010-2011 | 2011-2012 | 2012-2013 | 2013-2014

Rank	Team	2013	Last 3	Last 1	Home	Away	2012

<tbody>
</tbody>

17

Miss State

4.9

3.7

6.0

4.2

5.5

6.2

<tbody>
</tbody>

To put it in context: (from 2012)

88

Miss State

6.2

7.3

10.0

5.3

7.2

5.7

<tbody>
</tbody>

IN 2013 3rd down percentage is 34%

why do you consider collins to be much better than wilson? because he held osu to 3 td's? they converted over half their 3rd downs....same story with northwestern, same story with auburn. just because he replaced somebody ****** does not mean he is good...it just means hes the next one given the opportunity.

There were only 6 teams in all of FBS that finished with opponents converting over 50% on 3rd down....SIX!!!!! needless to say, wilson is murdering collins' 3rd down conversion rate AND ypg surrendered and here we are quarter through the season and our defensive stats are total ****. collins has wet dreams thinking about achieving the terrible stats wilson accumulated.

Fact: we have played teams from every spectrum we will see this season....a great team, a middle of the pack team, and a terrible team. here are the cold hard facts:

YPG:
Wilson: 397 ypg
Collins: 445 ypg

3rd down %:
Wilson: 43.60%
Collins: 51.72%

..........wake the 17 up.

because it really bothers me that our defense cant get off the 17ing field. i largely bit my tongue the northwestern game (wasnt a member on this site anyway at that time), but noticed how poorly we performed on 3rd down....which planted the seed in my mind.

our team is giving up over 50% on 3rd down conversions, the TOP is totally irrelevant to getting off the field. its about making the other team go 3 and out.

...where i have the problem is when somebody comes in and says collins is doing a bang-up job. hes not. his biggest problem is that he cant get off the field on 3rd. if he improves that dramatically, i wont say ****, and i will be happy to do so, but i want improvement on both sides of the ball...

How about that lobotomy, 17er?

And just for fun...

sorry, malzahn isnt one of the top 10 offensive minds in college football....he just isnt. gundy yes, malzahn no.

 

[Strike.sixpack]

Don't forget our rushing defense is better this year as well. He can make hay right now because we did what everybody else has done. Give up numbers to A & M. NCAA has us at 39 in total defense using all of our games. That is the number that is always used. Just like with the points per game in SEC play. It is higher this year but our SEC opponents offenses are also averaging 6 points per game more than last year. 30 points per game last year to 36 tho year. He also didn't look at the SEC only stats that put us 8th in the league in total defense in SEC only play so far this year. Last year it was ninth.

 

[121Josey]

Ev'nin' bump.

 

[engie]

The Malzahn quote was hilarious. I laughed hard about that at the time...

 

[57stratdawg]

Wait, his stance is we were better under Wilson?

[insert Pineapple Express laughing GIF]<insert pineapple="" express="" laughing="" gif=""></insert>

 

[Strike.sixpack]

Yeah. He hasn't responded to the rebuttal in the original thread either. It seems Collins is worse than Wilson also because our yards per play is higher this year. However he failed to compare it to the fact that 11 of the 14 teams number is higher this year from last year. And our differential is actually only the 4th highest of the 11 teams that have had an increase in yards per play from last year.

 

[DerHntr]

I would really enjoy it if he has taken his ball and gone home

 

[KurtRambis4]

I'm sure

McDonalds was short a fry cook tonight, and he just can't reply.

 

[FreeDawg]

Im not even going to enter the Collins vs Wilson debate b/c that's retarded. What I will say is that we are 70th in scoring defense. We aren't a very good defensive team. I see things I like from Collins and things I don't. In no way am I saying to fire Collins but I also think that thinking our current defense is good is equally as foolish.

 

[Strike.sixpack]

I agree I would like to see that number go down a good bit. I would not say we are a good defense either but overall its better than last years and honestly if it was not for the secondary problems we would probably be pretty good. Last year we were 8th in the league in scoring defense and we are 8th this year. Scoring in the league is much higher and that has to be accounted for when looking at the numbers. Last year there were 6 defenses that had a scoring defense less than 20 points. As it stands right now there are only two teams. LSU, Georgia, Florida, A & M, and Vanderbilt all have an increase greater than our own and So Carolina has the identical increase as us. 9 teams have an increase this year in scoring defense (although Alabama's increase is very small .3) This is not an issue just for us.

 

[Shamoan]

We all know that you just post the stats to deify your lord Chris Wilson. (And I haven't seen that kind of devotion since Tusk - speak of the devil and he shall return**)



But I've come across the stat that separates the old stale defense from the new emerging defense
College FB Team Opponent Third Down Conversions per Game

<form action="/ajax/league/v3/stats_controller.php" class="ajax-filter" method="post">

<label for="date">Date:</label> 11/13

<tbody>
</tbody>

</form> Seasons : 2003-2004 | 2004-2005 | 2005-2006 | 2006-2007 | 2007-2008 | 2008-2009 | 2009-2010 | 2010-2011 | 2011-2012 | 2012-2013 | 2013-2014

Rank	Team	2013	Last 3	Last 1	Home	Away	2012

<tbody>
</tbody>

17

Miss State

4.9

3.7

6.0

4.2

5.5

6.2

<tbody>
</tbody>

To put it in context: (from 2012)

88

Miss State

6.2

7.3

10.0

5.3

7.2

5.7

<tbody>
</tbody>

IN 2013 3rd down percentage is 34%








How about that lobotomy, 17er?

And just for fun...

shamsessed**

 

[Shamoan]

i stand by the fact that malzahn is not one of the top 10 offensive minds in the nation. you seriously think he is top 10? he is really good, but top 10 is a stretch and you know it.

i also recall saying that auburn was a top 25 team and receiving a tongue lashing from MANY OF YOU 17ers reading this now, that auburn was in no way whatsoever a top 25 team. tell me how my *** tastes.

looks like you spent your research time well**

 

[Shamoan]

lulz...the blind leading the blind.


you two should find stratdawg and form a club. the battered wives of sectalk has a nice ring to it.

 

[Shamoan]

im getting accused of not responding? yeah, cause thats my reputation. this is getting funny. keep it up guys, this is great. clearly, sec defense replacing the likes of 6, 7, and 8 (the sec averages 6 returning starters), has nothing to do with how down the sec is. tell georgia's 3 returning starters to quit being such pussies, tell lsu's 7 brand new starters to suck it up, tell atm's 7 new starters that mississippi state is where REAL sec defenses live.

 

[Shamoan]

i actually like you as a poster and agree with most of what you post. (sick'em boys)

its nice to know those feelings are reciprocated, and no, im not joking. i guess thats how you know you are wrong about ****...if shamoan agrees, your wrong. all that to say, you are wrong A LOT. im of the rare breed that enjoys this type of banter...why are our fans so averse to civil discussion? i say something they dont like and they start calling people names...is it frustration? i dont know the answer, but its sad people cant have civil disussions without the other party losing their **** when someone disagrees.

 

[Shamoan]

you know im a grad student. sadly, i must warn you that i will be busy all of tomorrow, so the soonest i will be able to respond is friday morning....i will be brimming with anticipation, i assure you. im halfway surprised i havnt been accused of being a bear yet. you guys are really slipping.

 

[dannyripms]

Lol, dude give it a rest. Malzahn is def a top 10 offensive mind. And that's why aubby is doing great. You remember just last year they sucked. Got pretty much the same players just a better coach. And when we played aubby they haven't really jelled as a team yet. Now that they have some games under their belt they've become a better team. We get rid if hunch back and get a good coach we can be just as good if not better

 

[Shamoan]

we are actually 77th.

we are NOT a very good defensive team....thats the point. i could care less about wilson v collins (shocking i know), but im using that to illustrate the point that as bad as wilson was, the defense is considerably worse. thems is facts. sorry they are so inconvenient, but you at least have the balls to say the defense isnt very good. thats the big step nobody seems to want to take.

and for the record, i have never once called for collins to be fired...not a single time. its just common belief that since i dont like his defensive scheme that I have called for his dismissal. not true. watch out, we have some common beliefs....you just painted a target on yourself. everybody thinks the defense is great...you think we arent a very good defensive team. your screwed....death by association. who's next?

 

[Shamoan]

I agree I would like to see that number go down a good bit.

how benevolent of you. im sure mullen agrees.

 

[Strike.sixpack]

Yes the SEC averages 6 returning starters on defense. That was true this year and last year and the year before.

 

[Shamoan]

if you really want a laugh as to why i think malzahn is not top 10, wait till you hear who i have in MY top 10....you are going to lose your **** when you see these clowns i have:

art briles: 687 ypg/ 59.9 ppg
mark helfrich: 573 ypg/ 49.9 ppg
kevin sumlin: 563 ypg/ 47.4 ppg
jimbo fisher/james coley: 524 ypg/ 51.8 ppg
urban meyer/tom herman: 523 ypg/ 44.8 ppg
chris peterson: 490 ypg/ 36 ppg
charlie strong/shawn watson: 482 ypg/ 38 ppg
dabo swinney/chad morris: 508 ypg/ 38 ppg
gary pinkel/josh henson: 470 ypg/ 39 ppg
kliff kinsbury: 508 ypg/ 35 ppg

auburn: 469 ypg/ 36 ppg

haha....im so dumb guys....clearly, my logic is flawed when i chose top 25 coaches that were currently ranked inside the top 25 in both ypg and ppg. they have multiple nc's amongst them as coordinators and in some cases, coaches, they have multiple bcs appreances amongst them, and they are all part of elite offenses currently....they all outpaced auburn with respect to yards per game and the only parameter gus beats any of them in is kingsbury in ppg...by a single point. outside of that, malzahn is looking up at them all. by definition alone, everyone i listed is a better than gus.

keep in mind, you were the one who said troy's offense was elite....in this case, they are certainly more elite than auburn's....so, by your estimation, kenny edenfield > malzahn. if those are the parameters we are going by, we could list niu's oc, marshall's oc, etc. etc. as better offensive minds than malzahn. no doubt you will disagree in some way, but thats what you said.

whether or not you disagree, you look at where malzahn is producing (somewhere from 21st to 24th depending on the parameter), there are automatically 20-23 coaches better than him with better numbers and many of them have national titles, bcs appearances, etc...and most of them have done so over multiple years.

i think malzahn is very good, but top 10 is really, really pushing it. the fact that you think its so cut-and-dried is funny in itself. think about all the great coaches like mike gundy that i didnt even mention....top 10 is elite status, and malzahn is really, really good, but thats about my limit. ill have to catch up with your reply and if you dont mind, please do me the favor in ranking what YOU think the top 10 offensive minds in ncaa football would be. dont like my list? give me yours....

 

[Shamoan]

proof that you argue with a ghost in your mind. you are just now figuring this out? talk about T H I C K....

im not sure how more clearly i can put it: wilson was 36th in scoring defense, collins is currently 77th in scoring defense. based on ncaa d1 peers, not only are we worse, we are just over TWICE AS BAD when compared to our peers when you compare us to how we stack-up against the exact same peers.

how is that a good thing?

 

[Shamoan]

ok, give me your top 10. your wrong about us being better. we will NEVER be better than auburn because their fans dont make excuses for **** defenses, not fix them. our only chance at being better than auburn is dropping this pathetic attitude where we make excuses for incompetence. mullen made a ****** hire in wilson and made and even worse hire with collins. neither were proven, yet we act surprised when our defense sucks hind teat....then we justify it by saying we are just as good as we were last year because we are 8th in the sec while ignoring the fact that the sec defenses are replacing an average of 6 players per team and the traditional powers are returning the likes of 3, 4, and 5 TOTAL DEFENSIVE STARTERS.

i get it...every is cohesively against anything i say. thats fine with me, but i find it hilarious that everyones stance is softening as to how disappointing the defense has been. thats all i really want. "not where i want it to be" "needs to improve" etc., etc. this conversation is heading in the right direction, and if i need to be the sacrificial lamb that just wont die, im fine with that. what we continue to field in unacceptable. if and when mullen gets the boot, you can bet your *** that the next hc is going to go in another direction....that is, unless he reads this board.

 

[121Josey]

if you really want a laugh as to why i think malzahn is not top 10, wait till you hear who i have in MY top 10....you are going to lose your **** when you see these clowns i have:

art briles: 687 ypg/ 59.9 ppg
mark helfrich: 573 ypg/ 49.9 ppg
kevin sumlin: 563 ypg/ 47.4 ppg
jimbo fisher/james coley: 524 ypg/ 51.8 ppg
urban meyer/tom herman: 523 ypg/ 44.8 ppg
chris peterson: 490 ypg/ 36 ppg
charlie strong/shawn watson: 482 ypg/ 38 ppg
dabo swinney/chad morris: 508 ypg/ 38 ppg
gary pinkel/josh henson: 470 ypg/ 39 ppg
kliff kinsbury: 508 ypg/ 35 ppg

auburn: 469 ypg/ 36 ppg

haha....im so dumb guys....clearly, my logic is flawed when i chose top 25 coaches that were currently ranked inside the top 25 in both ypg and ppg.

You clearly understand offense like you understand defense.

Read these stats.

To put that into perspective, no SEC teams ran the ball even 600 times (including the SEC title game and bowl games) last year or the year before:

Projected Auburn rushes in 2013: 640.9 (if 13 games), 690.2 (if 14 games)
Alabama, 2012 SEC rush attempts leader: 570 (14 games)
LSU, 2011 SEC rush attempts leader: 591 (14 games)

In fact, the last SEC squad to run the football 600+ times in a season was Auburn in 2010. Ya know, the year Gene Chizik, Malzahn, and some kid named Cam Newton won the BCS crown.
That Auburn squad is one of only five SEC offenses to rush 600+ times since 2007:

Auburn 2013: 640.9 rushes (projected, 13 games) or 690.2 rushes (projected, 14 games)
Auburn 2010: 652 rushes
Arkansas 2007: 625 rushes
Miss. State 2010: 620 rushes
LSU 2007: 612 rushes
Alabama 2009: 601 rushes

So much for total rushes. In terms of the percentage of run calls, none of those teams match Auburn’s current 70.7% run lean:

Auburn 2010: 68.7%
Arkansas 2007: 66.6%
Miss. State 2010: 68.3%
LSU 2007: 67.9%
Alabama 2009: 63.4%

 

[121Josey]

Im not even going to enter the Collins vs Wilson debate b/c that's retarded. What I will say is that we are 70th in scoring defense. We aren't a very good defensive team. I see things I like from Collins and things I don't. In no way am I saying to fire Collins but I also think that thinking our current defense is good is equally as foolish.

And to think that our defense is bad is equally as foolish. The point is the kid is full of hot air. Collins had coordinated three games and he gave us this laundry list of how much better Wilson was than Collins. Now, 3/4 into the season, he's left with one leg to stand on: ppg.

The problem is the amount this kid obsesses over Collins. He's officially the unofficial new goat.

 

[121Josey]

you know im a grad student.

With these analytical skills, how did you ever get into grad school? Please say not at MSU.

 

[Hump4Hoops]

You have become a joke.

It's been made very clear that you have an agenda and that you only want attention. You refuse to listen to facts that oppose your argument.

 

[FreeDawg]

And to think that our defense is bad is equally as foolish. The point is the kid is full of hot air. Collins had coordinated three games and he gave us this laundry list of how much better Wilson was than Collins. Now, 3/4 into the season, he's left with one leg to stand on: ppg.

The problem is the amount this kid obsesses over Collins. He's officially the unofficial new goat.

Do what? I could care less about you and Shamoan's argument. In my opinion, the most important defensive statistic is ppg. We can go sucking each other off about how we're giving up less yards but the truth is that we're 70th in the nation in scoring defense. That sucks period. We're also
at the bottom of the league in TFL and sacks. I'd like to see more of those as well. That said, Bama is too but they only give up 10.6 ppg which circles back to ppg being the only stat that matters.

Don't get me wrong, I want the offense better too. We are 57th in the country in scoring. While I never expect us to be like A&m, Oregon, or Baylor to be in the top 10, if we could get low 30's in ppg ranking, I'd feel a lot better there too. Even though I'm not satisfied with our current defense, every time they give the offense help they blow it (or at least it seems).

 

[Strike.sixpack]

Do you not comprehend what you are writing? You are making the argument that the SEC defenses this year are all down and that is the only reason why scoring is up across the league. That it has nothing to do with the offenses. The reason you are having to state this is because our scoring has gone up but our ranking in the league is the same as last year. 8th. That means the majority of the teams in the league have also gone up this year.

You used the returning starters argument to prop up your thought that its only defenses getting worse to cause more offense output and it had nothing to do with the offenses. Although Missouri and Auburn were way down in their normal offense scoring last year and have bounced back this year I guess that's all bad defenses as well. You state that the SEC this year only had about 6.2 returning starters on defense and the traditional power teams were worse and that's the reason for scoring going up. The problem is its normally 6-7 returning starters every year on average. Then it's your assertion that with the traditional power teams unusually losing more this year it was a perfect storm to cause all the scoring to go up with weak inexperienced defenses. Did you check your thoughts to see if that is the case? Well let's see LSU only has 5 returning this year so that must be the reason their scoring ave is up. Wait they only had 5 last year as well. So how did they get 7 points worse? Alabama had only 4 returning starters last year so obviously they dropped in defense a lot. Well no still number 1 last year and this. Even with 7 returning starters this year they have seen increases in yard per play, another one of your stats. Florida lets look at the last couple of years. 2011 6 returning starters and they allowed 19.3 points. 2012 10 returning starters at 15.7 points per game. 2013 5 returning starters at 19.0 points per game. That looks like the same points as 2011 but that can't be because they have less returning starters this year compared to then. Vandy 7 returners last year 6 this year but that is the only reason they have gone up 12 pts per game? 1 less returner is the cause of that? Georgia did lose a lot from last year and dropped to the bottom half of the league. A&M dropped two spots from 7th to 9th. Auburn and Missouri have bounced back this year to replace them. Four of the top 6 defenses from last year are still in the top 6 this year. Bama, Florida, So Carolina, LSU. 7, 5, 5, 5 returning starters respectfully.

You can make the case in every year teams with more returning starters should get better whether its a power or bottom team. The same can also be said in the reverse. This is not some strange anomaly for this year and the power teams can lose and reload a lot easier. Offenses are better this year and its not just because of weaker more inexperienced defenses. When you go from 6 teams averaging over 30 pts per game and 1 over 40 in 2012 to 9 teams over 30 and 2 over 40 it's not just the defenses being bad. When the average returning starters on the best offenses in the league is also around 6 then it's a wash with the defenses. You can make a good case that the number of experienced QB in this league this year has caused the numbers to go up. I would agree with that but it's not because of bad defenses that the experienced QB are producing more. They are better and the defenses are not just propping up average offenses to make them look better than they are. It actually a reverse situation where the offenses are better making the defenses numbers go up. You will see it adjust next year because there will be a lot of new QB. But since 2009 there has been an upswing in scoring in this league. The number of teams averaging over 30 points has gone from 4, 5, 3, 6, to 9 teams today. That is not just bad defenses. Unless you want to say it was bad defenses last year as well and go back through their returning starters to try make your argument fit.

 

[engie]

if you really want a laugh as to why i think malzahn is not top 10, wait till you hear who i have in MY top 10....you are going to lose your **** when you see these clowns i have:

art briles: 687 ypg/ 59.9 ppg
mark helfrich: 573 ypg/ 49.9 ppg
kevin sumlin: 563 ypg/ 47.4 ppg
jimbo fisher/james coley: 524 ypg/ 51.8 ppg
urban meyer/tom herman: 523 ypg/ 44.8 ppg
chris peterson: 490 ypg/ 36 ppg
charlie strong/shawn watson: 482 ypg/ 38 ppg
dabo swinney/chad morris: 508 ypg/ 38 ppg
gary pinkel/josh henson: 470 ypg/ 39 ppg
kliff kinsbury: 508 ypg/ 35 ppg

auburn: 469 ypg/ 36 ppg

You are right. EL OH EL. Shamoan definition of "offensive mind" = "this season's statistics"
Malzahn is playing with a JUCO DB as starting QB right now in year one of what MOST people thought would be a multi-year rebuild.

haha....im so dumb guys....clearly, my logic is flawed when i chose top 25 coaches that were currently ranked inside the top 25 in both ypg and ppg. they have multiple nc's amongst them as coordinators and in some cases, coaches, they have multiple bcs appreances amongst them, and they are all part of elite offenses currently

What part of this doesn't describe Malzahn? Last I checked -- he's got a ring.

...they all outpaced auburn with respect to yards per game and the only parameter gus beats any of them in is kingsbury in ppg...by a single point. outside of that, malzahn is looking up at them all. by definition alone, everyone i listed is a better than gus.

Because Kingsbury outpaces his by 50 yards/game in the ****** big 12? You truly can't be serious.

keep in mind, you were the one who said troy's offense was elite....in this case, they are certainly more elite than auburn's....so, by your estimation, kenny edenfield > malzahn. if those are the parameters we are going by, we could list niu's oc, marshall's oc, etc. etc. as better offensive minds than malzahn. no doubt you will disagree in some way, but thats what you said.

Correct -- I said Troy, Auburn, and OK State ALL had elite offensive coaches and are traditionally elite offensive teams -- and I showed it statistically at the time -- while you went into ridiculous diatribes about THIRD DOWN CONVERSION PERCENTAGE as the reason the defense sucked -- an argument that you've now dropped -- as Collins has us in the top 25 in that metric.

The problem with your defensive argument isn't that Collins is that great -- it's that you can't settle on the criteria in proving it. Your "proof" has changed 15 times based on whatever we were ranked worst in that week.

whether or not you disagree, you look at where malzahn is producing (somewhere from 21st to 24th depending on the parameter), there are automatically 20-23 coaches better than him with better numbers and many of them have national titles, bcs appearances, etc...and most of them have done so over multiple years.

LOL no.

i think malzahn is very good, but top 10 is really, really pushing it. the fact that you think its so cut-and-dried is funny in itself. think about all the great coaches like mike gundy that i didnt even mention....top 10 is elite status, and malzahn is really, really good, but thats about my limit. ill have to catch up with your reply and if you dont mind, please do me the favor in ranking what YOU think the top 10 offensive minds in ncaa football would be. dont like my list? give me yours....

Yep -- the top 10 changes every single year according to you -- based on who is having the best season.

Unlike you -- for me to make a "top 10" list -- I'm going to show 5-7 years worth of production and go from there. As such, I'm not going to look at one random stats site and rattle off a list based one the last 5 minutes.

 

[Strike.sixpack]

I understand what your saying and agree with wanting the scoring down. But he has been trying to make it a comparison to last year without adjusting or accounting for the differences between the two years. We are 8th in the league in scoring both years. The majority of the teams have dropped, more than one have dropped more than us. 77th is not good but because we are in the same position in the league as last years team tells me to investigate why the numbers have gone up. It's up across the league tells me it's not just a problem we have. Coincidentally offenses are up a lot this year across the league. Correlation is that the scoring numbers for the offenses going up has caused the defense numbers to go up. Since the last two years have produced incredible offensive number that also tells me that it's not a bad defense year anomaly that he is also trying to make the case for. Relative to our league we are in the same position in scoring defense both last year and this year.

 

[engie]

I understand what your saying and agree with wanting the scoring down. But he has been trying to make it a comparison to last year without adjusting or accounting for the differences between the two years. We are 8th in the league in scoring both years. The majority of the teams have dropped, more than one have dropped more than us. 77th is not good but because we are in the same position in the league as last years team tells me to investigate why the numbers have gone up. It's up across the league tells me it's not just a problem we have. Coincidentally offenses are up a lot this year across the league. Correlation is that the scoring numbers for the offenses going up has caused the defense numbers to go up. Since the last two years have produced incredible offensive number that also tells me that it's not a bad defense year anomaly that he is also trying to make the case for. Relative to our league we are in the same position in scoring defense both last year and this year.

Exactly.

A great site for looking at this info in more detail -- which shows schedule-adjusted statistics.
http://www.adjustedstats.com/ratings-stats/cfbdeftotaladj.php

If I had the time -- or concern for proving the folly of the argument -- I would do this myself by using points scored against us vs opposing team scoring averages and yards put up against us vs team averages -- and tell "how much better or worse than average" our defense is by that metric for both 2013 and 2012. I know we're about 50 yards/game better in this metric already. Haven't done the scoring D...

 

[Sutterkane]

"Your" Wrong? "Your" and idiot. Dubmass.

 

[121Josey]

Do what? I could care less about you and Shamoan's argument. In my opinion, the most important defensive statistic is ppg.

Here's what: Look at what State has given up
OSU 21
Alcorn 7
Auburn 24
Troy 7
LSU 59
BG 20
UK 22
USCe 34
TAMU 51

As Strike has pointed out, scoring is up in the SEC almost a TD over last year. But we give up the big play all too often. Until we fix the safety problems, we're going to get burnt more times than not. The offense and ST gave LSU and TAMU short fields on multiple occasions. If we held LSU at 31, we'd be in the Top 50 in ppg. That's what giving up 28 pts in the 4th will do to you. Add to that the TD at the end of the first half of both the LSU and A&M game (offense's fault on both).

I don't disagree with the TFL and sacks. But hopefully the 3 sacks against A&M's line was a sign of things to come.

However, State's front 7 is getting the defense off the field. State's D has put the team in position to win. It's the offense that's underperformed.

 

[Strike.sixpack]

It is benevolent of me isn't.

 

[DerHntr]

Nothing against you. I just like it when people take their ball and go home. I laugh when people give in and start entirely new websites because they want their voices heard...Like DS and C34!

/I need to be careful. DS might ban me.
//**

 

[Strike.sixpack]

That's right. For 2012 the numbers are:

DEFENSE	TOTAL	PER GAME	ADJ/GAME
Points	294	24.50 (36)	21.42 (26)

<tbody>
</tbody>

For 2013:

DEFENSE	TOTAL	PER GAME	ADJ/GAME
Points	238	29.75 (77)	22.74 (32)

<tbody>
</tbody>

A 1.32 point difference once you adjust for the competition.

 

[Philly Dawg]

Ya'll have confused the heck out of me. I'm having trouble following the numbers, so I did this.

Points Per Game: 2012 - 23.3, 2013 - 27.2
Total Defense: 2012 - 387.4, 2013 - 372.9
Rushing Defense: 2012 - 165.6, 2013 - 141.7
Passing Defense: 2012 - 221.8, 2013 - 231.2
Third Down Coversions Against: 2012 - 42%, 2013 - 34%

As you can see, the defenses are pretty similar. I think that this year's is better because we get off the field better, and have played a tougher schedule, but that is an introduction of some subjective elements.

 

[Lee Corso]

You will see it adjust next year because there will be a lot of new QB. But since 2009 there has been an upswing in scoring in this league.

Murray, Mettenburg, Manziel, McCarron, Shaw, Russell, and Franklin agree with you.

 

[Strike.sixpack]

I'm sorry it has gotten confusing. Your numbers are correct from the NCAA using all opponents we have played. He is adjusting for our opponents being D1 teams only which makes the numbers and rank higher when you eliminate the Alcorn game. I and others agree with you that it is similar to last years numbers in a lot of ways but he contends that we are much worse because the numbers are worse. The criteria for those numbers have changed as more and more of those have been eliminated. The scoring aspect is whats left which is higher in the raw data. The site Engie listed and where I posted the adjusted numbers from, adjusts for the competition level of the year. That number shows that our adjusted scoring defense against this years competition is 1.32 points per game higher than our adjusted scoring defense from last year. Play tougher opponents with better offenses and our scoring defense goes up.

Our conference rank, even with the higher scoring, is still 8th this year just like last year. The scoring defense for the majority of the league is up from last year. He states that is only because all of the defenses are bad in the league this year due to a lot of inexperienced players especially the top teams only having 3-5 returning starters. I believe 4 of the top 6 defenses this year are the same as they were last year even though three of them only had 5 returning starters.

You would also have to take in consideration that the low offensive numbers by Auburn and Missouri last year were the anomalies not the numbers they are putting up this year. In the last three years we have gone from 3 teams scoring 30+ points per game to 6 last year to 9 this year. I believe it has been a very strong offense cycle that has caused the shift in the numbers to go up the last three years as well. We had 5 defenses holding opponents to less than 20 points per game in 2011, to 4 last year to 2 this year. Like with all cycles it will change, but I also think that this year we are very similar statistically defensively, better on the whole, and wished we could have seen what the totals would have been without the secondary injuries. Hopefully, with a very weak offensive opponent left and an average one left to finish the year the numbers will go down and only then will we have a clear picture of our defense this year.