Thanks, all of this fits with my subjective "eye test" opinion of the defense; that it is better than last year.
Hey Smoa$$, You forgot this Stat
- Thread starter 121Josey
- Start date
how so? we are significantly worse in nearly every defensive statistic and you think thats irrelevant or totally inconsequential because we lost banks and slay?
ok, how do you explain away the fact that we are giving up more yards per rush with a considerably more experienced front 7?
'12 = 4.2 yards per carry (61st)
'13 = 4.5 yards per carry (81st)
let me guess? schedule? cherrington's senior leadership and dominating inside presence?
we are worse in opponents points per game, opponents yards per play, total defense, passing defense, rushing defense, and each one of those statistics is relevant to the job collins is or is not doing.
as far as my alleged obsession over collins, the only reason im still talking about collins is because people like you keep adding fuel to the conversation. if i didnt have anyone to discuss the situation with, the conversation would die. i make comments, people disagree, and the discussion ensues. if you dont want to discuss it, you dont have to read my posts or respond to what you perceive as an unintelligent or obsessed post. if you think im a troll, you probably shouldnt feed me....unless, that is, you dont think im a troll, but each successive post you make with regard to the defense, only gives my arguments more validity. if you think im a fool, dont respond and dont read, or better yet, ignore me, otherwise, reap the consequences of not taking those actions...consequences that entail me continuing to post about disputed defensive data.
ok, how do you explain away the fact that we are giving up more yards per rush with a considerably more experienced front 7?
'12 = 4.2 yards per carry (61st)
'13 = 4.5 yards per carry (81st)
let me guess? schedule? cherrington's senior leadership and dominating inside presence?
we are worse in opponents points per game, opponents yards per play, total defense, passing defense, rushing defense, and each one of those statistics is relevant to the job collins is or is not doing.
as far as my alleged obsession over collins, the only reason im still talking about collins is because people like you keep adding fuel to the conversation. if i didnt have anyone to discuss the situation with, the conversation would die. i make comments, people disagree, and the discussion ensues. if you dont want to discuss it, you dont have to read my posts or respond to what you perceive as an unintelligent or obsessed post. if you think im a troll, you probably shouldnt feed me....unless, that is, you dont think im a troll, but each successive post you make with regard to the defense, only gives my arguments more validity. if you think im a fool, dont respond and dont read, or better yet, ignore me, otherwise, reap the consequences of not taking those actions...consequences that entail me continuing to post about disputed defensive data.
oh ****....youve done it now. duck and cover bra....they dont like facts around here.
look, your just being logical. everyone here seems moderately satisfied with being the 77th best defense and being in the bottom half of the ncaa. you are absolutely right...the defense needs to improve considerably cause 77th aint cutting it.
look, your just being logical. everyone here seems moderately satisfied with being the 77th best defense and being in the bottom half of the ncaa. you are absolutely right...the defense needs to improve considerably cause 77th aint cutting it.
you love you some multiquote....
look, its really hard to argue against the guys i got in my top 10 (they are pretty good company) and keep in mind, guys like petrino and gundy were left out. all that to say, i think gus being on the outside looking in to the top 10 is a fairly reasonable statement. you may disagree and we can split hairs over a plethora of statistics, but when its all said and done, it a gut feeling. i think malzahn is easily in the top 20 of "offensive minds", but in my estimation, he hasnt done enough to qualify for top 10, although this year, he is making some big strides toward that goal.
as far as 3rd down conversion being my only argument, i know you at least read what i have posted in the past and surely you dont believe that. dont forget that ive been accused multiple times of having too many "irrelevant stats", so lets not pretend that ive only been banging a 3rd down drum, when in reality, ive consistently said ppg and ypg have also been bad. that was my original trifecta of bad stats under collins. have we improved on 3rd downs in the last few games? yes, but that stat is also a bit misleading in the fact that teams often dont require 3rd downs to go the full length of the field against our defense. look at the sc game....they had 1 of 11 3rd down conversions, yet had 2 drives over 70 yards (71 and 86 yards)and a 54 yard drive along with a few minor drives....again, they had ONE 3rd down conversion, and that was late in the 4th quarter if i remember correctly. he improved on getting off the field, something i concede i have always knocked him on, but that hasnt been my only knock on him by a LONG shot. again, you know this already, but the defense if far from being where any msu fan should want the defense to be.
and as a general comment not directed at you, but the whole board, the comparison to wilson only served to illustrate that the defense is going in the wrong direction. the data backs that up. i could have compared collins to torbush or diaz, but those are the least applicable because the circumstances (read: players) were so drastically different. we lost primarily banks and slay, yes, those do have an impact on the performance of the defense as a whole, but when you look at how poorly those guys were utilized under wilson, is it THAT big of a drop-off? normally, when you have two high draft picks at corner in your secondary, you wouldnt expect that defense to rank 51st in passing defense (2012 we gave up 227 passing ypg)....currently, we are giving up 243 passing ypg (good for 77th), so you can view that in two ways...wilson was vastly underutilizing banks and slay (which would be the truth), or collins is getting our defensive secondary performing at a high level....and i dont think anyone is making that argument. all that to say, the impact of banks and slay on wilsons defense is overstated simply because they were so poorly utilized in that scheme, so when someone points to the loss of those two, that loss isnt as significant as you might believe in regards to production under wilson. they DO have an impact, but it damn sure isnt worth the 41 spots that currently separate us from where we stack amongst our ncaa peers from 2012 (36th) to 2013 (77th).
look, its really hard to argue against the guys i got in my top 10 (they are pretty good company) and keep in mind, guys like petrino and gundy were left out. all that to say, i think gus being on the outside looking in to the top 10 is a fairly reasonable statement. you may disagree and we can split hairs over a plethora of statistics, but when its all said and done, it a gut feeling. i think malzahn is easily in the top 20 of "offensive minds", but in my estimation, he hasnt done enough to qualify for top 10, although this year, he is making some big strides toward that goal.
as far as 3rd down conversion being my only argument, i know you at least read what i have posted in the past and surely you dont believe that. dont forget that ive been accused multiple times of having too many "irrelevant stats", so lets not pretend that ive only been banging a 3rd down drum, when in reality, ive consistently said ppg and ypg have also been bad. that was my original trifecta of bad stats under collins. have we improved on 3rd downs in the last few games? yes, but that stat is also a bit misleading in the fact that teams often dont require 3rd downs to go the full length of the field against our defense. look at the sc game....they had 1 of 11 3rd down conversions, yet had 2 drives over 70 yards (71 and 86 yards)and a 54 yard drive along with a few minor drives....again, they had ONE 3rd down conversion, and that was late in the 4th quarter if i remember correctly. he improved on getting off the field, something i concede i have always knocked him on, but that hasnt been my only knock on him by a LONG shot. again, you know this already, but the defense if far from being where any msu fan should want the defense to be.
and as a general comment not directed at you, but the whole board, the comparison to wilson only served to illustrate that the defense is going in the wrong direction. the data backs that up. i could have compared collins to torbush or diaz, but those are the least applicable because the circumstances (read: players) were so drastically different. we lost primarily banks and slay, yes, those do have an impact on the performance of the defense as a whole, but when you look at how poorly those guys were utilized under wilson, is it THAT big of a drop-off? normally, when you have two high draft picks at corner in your secondary, you wouldnt expect that defense to rank 51st in passing defense (2012 we gave up 227 passing ypg)....currently, we are giving up 243 passing ypg (good for 77th), so you can view that in two ways...wilson was vastly underutilizing banks and slay (which would be the truth), or collins is getting our defensive secondary performing at a high level....and i dont think anyone is making that argument. all that to say, the impact of banks and slay on wilsons defense is overstated simply because they were so poorly utilized in that scheme, so when someone points to the loss of those two, that loss isnt as significant as you might believe in regards to production under wilson. they DO have an impact, but it damn sure isnt worth the 41 spots that currently separate us from where we stack amongst our ncaa peers from 2012 (36th) to 2013 (77th).
Our rushing defense was 10th in the league last year with 170.33 yards per game and 6th this year at 155.88 yards per game. The rushing yards in conference only games is 150.80 for 5th this year and a 4.14 rushing yards per play this year. Last year it was 12th in conference only games for 175.75 yards per game and 4.23 yards per play. The first game of the year inflated the yards per carrier number. If they continue on the pace we have been for the remainder of the year it will keep getting lower.
We are 8th in the league in total defense right now and was 8th last year in the D1 only game totals. The difference is 1.5 yards per game between last year and this year. We are 38th nationally in total defense when you include all games and 53rd last year. The adjusted numbers for the added strength of schedule has us 25th this year in total defense for D1 games only and 42nd for last year.
We are 8th in the league in total defense right now and was 8th last year in the D1 only game totals. The difference is 1.5 yards per game between last year and this year. We are 38th nationally in total defense when you include all games and 53rd last year. The adjusted numbers for the added strength of schedule has us 25th this year in total defense for D1 games only and 42nd for last year.
soooo....your saying that our defensive coordinator has lead us to a position where our defensive ranking amongst their peers is not good? so, we agree then.
would you be happy if the sec occupied the last 14 positions in the ncaa rankings and msu was 119th in scoring defense out of 125 d1 teams? the sec is considerably worse defensively than it was last year primarily because the traditional defensive powers (uga, florida, usc, atm, lsu) are replacing 6, 7, and 8 starters defensively. this year is unusually unkind to most of the better defenses from last year.
It's average in the league is what I'm saying. Your saying its horrible especially compared to last year. And I don't agree with that. If you would say its similar to last year then we can mostly agree. What is on the field I see a better defense that does not have all of its pieces, compared to last year and when you consider it is facing tougher competition.