Heyward batting 6th 'controversy'

[boomboommsu]

Just wondering what the boards thoughts were on this growing controversy. even Tim "Freaking Moron" McCarver weighed in on it today.

to fill in, Heyward, arguable the Braves best hitter, is hitting 6th in the lineup so that he can hit Nate McLouth 2nd. to add insult to the SABR-displeasing move, Atlanta's manager Fredi Gonzolez has made some boneheaded remarks, saying he didn't want to "play Johnny Manager" (that's his job! he's the manager!), saying how he wants him in RBI opportunities etc, he wants him to 'protect' Uggla (a notion deemed a myth by SABRists). to date, Heyward is among league leaders in walks yet has failed to score on any of them, and several games have ended with McLouth getting an extra at-bat at Heyward's expense. he also said something about Pujols not hitting leadoff.

so far, it appears Heyward is being pitched around more than desireable.

 

[MStateFan22]

And Heyward is protecting Uggla from getting pitched around right now. Another week or two of McLouth not hitting the ball well will force a line up change. I think I'd move Heyward to the 2 spot and maybe swap Uggla and McCann at #4 and #5 depending on the pitcher. Just my thoughts.

 

[57stratdawg]

They Braves' lineup is in one big slump. I have Prato and Heyward on my fantasy team, so I follow them closely.

Out of 16 NL teams, they're 15th in runs, 14th in average (.223), 14th in total bases, and last in on base %.

Heyward isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. He's batting .205 and 0-6 on the day. I agree he's better at a different spot, but until he shows he deserves to be elsewhere he's going to be there. So far this year he's one of the worse hitters on one of the worse hitting teams in baseball.

 

[missouridawg]

were Uggla, McCann, and Prado. I assumed he meant Heyward instead of Prado.... but oh well. McCarver is a moron.

 

[57stratdawg]

[No message]

 

[boomboommsu]

and hitting your highest OBP guy in a spot where he's not scoring might have something to do with an ineffective offense?

i think FG's basic thought is that human factors outweigh the math. but he won't say so. he's pretending to be a new-school SABR guy, when he's just a typical old-school manager, and he isn't fooling anyone. and in trying to have it both ways, he's making ridiculous arguments that are just pissing the fan base off more. see Croom, Sylvester.

he's got a point about a more balanced lineup, but in baseball who cares? the point is to score the most runs. if your top-heavy top of the order scores more than your light bottom of the order loses, that's a good thing! there's no double teams in baseball, bunch your best hitters together and ride that horse to victory dammit.

 

[SchruteDog]

Braves problem is they don't have a leadoff hitter. Prado and McLouth both have an on base percentage under .300. Prado is a #2 hitter at best and McLouth is an 8. Apparently 2008 Nate is MIA never to return.<div>
</div><div>Eventually, Heyward is going to become a 20-30 homer guy, but right now he's not quite there. So, I don't know what keeps them from putting him at #2 or even at the leadoff for now. He's got almost a .400 OBP</div>

 

[HighPointDawg]

1/2 his walks were obvious situations were he didn't see any good pitches (pitched around to face Gonzalez/Freeman)

He is a hell of a hitter and has a great eye but I don't know that he would have a .400 OBA in the #2 slot.

That said, I would love to see him in the #2 slot.

 

[57stratdawg]

especially in the NL.

1) Prado
2) Heyward
3) Chipper
4) McCann
5) Uggla
6) Gonzalez
7) McLouth
8) Freeman
9) Pitcher

I always thought NL teams can win championships with a stiff 1-6. Because the pitcher is going to ruin pretty much anything in the bottom of the lineup. Again, I think Heyward has to start hitting first before you can really make an argument to move him.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

chipper should hit 2nd ans heyward 3rd. chipper isn't the run producer he once was but still gets on base (when healthy). and you'd have 2 very high obp for mccann and uggla even without a true leadoff hitter. chipper is a vet and would be willing to make the move.

and there's not way to argue heyward couldn't handle it. dude was in the majors at 20 and guys like chipper, pujols, and cabrera began their careers at a very young age and immediately hit in the middle of the lineup on very successful teams.

 

[MStateFan22]

Chipper is leading the Braves in RBI's and tied for 6th in the NL. Top of the lineup is already slow. Last thing they need is chipper hitting 2nd.

 

[DAWGATREZ]

I agree that Chipper is to slow to hit 2nd, why do the hitters quit hitting when they become a Brave?

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

eh, 2 hole guys don't need to be slow. and he's still be setting up heyward->mccann->uggla, whereas now with the empty spot of mcclouth at the 2 spot, chipper is setting up mccann->uggla->heyward. don't need speed in the 2 spot, just get on.

 

[BlindDawg]

However, I actually prefer Heyward hitting 6th instead of 2nd and think Gonzalez is making the right move. My thinking for it is that Heyward is more of a run producer than table setter so having him 6th gives him more opportunity to bat with men on base. Hitting 2nd your job is to get on base and move runners, and while Heyward can certainly do that I'd rather have him hit lower to get more RBI opportunities. Now of course all this is contingent on McLouth hitting in the 2 spot. If he doesn't hit, rest assured Gonzalez will make the move and put Heyward 2nd after giving McLouth a fair shot. But in a perfect world where McLouth doesn't suck, he sees more pitches hitting 2nd than he would at the bottom of the lineup giving him a better chance to succeed, gets on base, and gives Chipper, McCann, Uggla, and Heyward ample opportunity to drive in runs.

 

[boomboommsu]

Heyward has not been getting RBI opportunities all the way down at 6. and he's been getting on base at over a .400 clip despite not hitting his best, but has not been scoring.

all this is what you would expect from batting his type of player 6th.

also, McLouth is the perfect type hitter to hit 6th. which makes it all the more dumb and infuriating.</p>

 

[klerushund]

...really be that complex? McLouth strikes out a bunch. Heyward does not. Bat Heyward 2nd, and score more runs.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

a study a few years ago shows that for optimal overall lineup production, your best hitter should hit in the 2-spot. <div>
</div><div>and your worst hitter should hit 7th or 8th (thus allowing for the 8th and/or 9th hitters to get on for the best hitter). a lot of american leagues teams already incorporate this by having a "2nd leadoff" hitter batting 9th, and larussa has played around with batting the pitcher 7th or 8th, but hasn't bumped pooholes up the 2nd.</div>