Hickory and Watauga sports

The Patriot

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Both Hickory High and Watauga have multiple teams that are excelling this fall. Today, the Pioneers and Red Tornadoes both have teams that are playing for the right to go to the state championship in women's tennis and volleyball. They are also both good in soccer and everyone is probably aware that they have great football teams. So, since we have a couple of people who post here who are close to these programs, I want to ask, "what are they doing right?"
Sometimes you will just get a good class of kids. But I also believe that good athletic directors can make a big difference. Or is this the new format allowing more competition? Anyway, maybe we can get some insight on what's going on with these schools on this thread.
 
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Both places seem to have good cultures in place not sure if that's Principles, ADs, kids or a combo of all.
I was going to say the same thing. I cant speak for Hickory, but looking at Watauga's staff, its riddled with past players who were stand out folks and were poured into by Watauga. Now they've been given the opportunity to pour into the next group of Pioneers. That to me makes the biggest difference in a culture change. I believe the standards have been elevated as well. Coaches expect a level of effort and when you give that effort consistently, you see that translated into wins on field, court, track, etc etc.

Go back to the mid 90s to early 2000s in Morganton, Freedoms culture was unrivaled. They dominated everything when I was in high school. They were all you talked about. How do you be more like freedom.
 

The Patriot

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I was going to say the same thing. I cant speak for Hickory, but looking at Watauga's staff, its riddled with past players who were stand out folks and were poured into by Watauga. Now they've been given the opportunity to pour into the next group of Pioneers. That to me makes the biggest difference in a culture change. I believe the standards have been elevated as well. Coaches expect a level of effort and when you give that effort consistently, you see that translated into wins on field, court, track, etc etc.

Go back to the mid 90s to early 2000s in Morganton, Freedoms culture was unrivaled. They dominated everything when I was in high school. They were all you talked about. How do you be more like freedom.
I appreciate you saying that, but we've never been all that strong in football. Hoops has always been our thing, but we once won a state championship in volleyball. That was probably 25 years ago, and it seems like a one-off now. We also had a baseball team that went to the regional finals once, but I doubt if we've had a dozen winning baseball seasons in over 50 years of the school being open. Other sports have also been hit or miss.
I think what you're saying about getting kids who played at the school back as coaches is a big part of success. We had our chance to get Joe Glass, and I'll never understand how we let that opportunity slip through our fingers, because he's a Freedom alum. Now, we've got JK, who is also an alum, and he seems to be righting the ship. But we haven't carried that over into other sports and both soccer and volleyball struggled this year (soccer will make the playoffs, but I doubt if they go far). I think the AD can direct a lot of this, and you need someone with a vision in the job.
 
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I appreciate you saying that, but we've never been all that strong in football. Hoops has always been our thing, but we once won a state championship in volleyball. That was probably 25 years ago, and it seems like a one-off now. We also had a baseball team that went to the regional finals once, but I doubt if we've had a dozen winning baseball seasons in over 50 years of the school being open. Other sports have also been hit or miss.
I think what you're saying about getting kids who played at the school back as coaches is a big part of success. We had our chance to get Joe Glass, and I'll never understand how we let that opportunity slip through our fingers, because he's a Freedom alum. Now, we've got JK, who is also an alum, and he seems to be righting the ship. But we haven't carried that over into other sports and both soccer and volleyball struggled this year (soccer will make the playoffs, but I doubt if they go far). I think the AD can direct a lot of this, and you need someone with a vision in the job.
How much weight do you place on population? I asked this when some of the asheville folks said their area has gone downhill. I personally feel being a one team county is a disadvantage. Hickory has a lot of competition in catawba county though. I dont really know there's one specific answer.
 
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kyleheel30

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Completely disagree. How do college students coming to Boone help the local high school?
1. Families visiting from all over the country visiting there with their kids enjoy the area and move there.

2. The population of Watauga Country grew tremendously from 2010 to 2020 compared to most other mountain counties, (almost 10,000 people) think it's a coincidence that Watauga football suddenly became relevant? That population growth has slowed or even declined the last couple years though.

3. App State has a proud football program and tradition and it certainly doesn't hurt the high school building a football tradition with more resources available to them.
 

Ahscougar

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I think sometimes it’s coaching but sometimes schools can just get a massive influx of talent in a wave and be very successful for a few years.

For example, my Asheville high cougars won
19 playoff games and a state championship from 2002-2007 and went 62-9 in that time. I bet we haven’t won 19 playoff games since then. Sometimes you just have an era of talent and sometimes you have the opposite
 

The Patriot

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I’ll come back to this thread tomorrow, but both Hickory and Watauga volleyball teams won tonight and advanced to the state championships. Watauga tennis lost to Catholic and I couldn’t find the results for Hickory and E. Lincoln tennis.
Hickory’s volleyball title match conflicts with their football game Friday night.
 
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1. Families visiting from all over the country visiting there with their kids enjoy the area and move there.

2. The population of Watauga Country grew tremendously from 2010 to 2020 compared to most other mountain counties, (almost 10,000 people) think it's a coincidence that Watauga football suddenly became relevant? That population growth has slowed or even declined the last couple years though.

3. App State has a proud football program and tradition and it certainly doesn't hurt the high school building a football tradition with more resources available to them.
I dont think population growth has anything to do with it actually, as the average age of Watauga County residents has increased drastically, indicating the folks moving to Boone are retirees. Also, I personally think Ryan Habich has about 75% to do with the success of Wataugas football program, as he demands a perfect effort and knows how to get the most out of each player.

As for a "proud football program" at app, I dont think you know a lot of what goes on behind the scenes in Boone. Ill leave it at that.
 

kyleheel30

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Ya, but underperformed. And to be fair, that Satterfield boys were born and raised in Boone, its not like they moved there and brought some excellent skill set with them.
Legit question- Do you think if you put Coach Habich at McDowell the same year he started at Watauga that he would have as much success in Marion as he has at Watauga? McDowell and Watauga football have similar history except the past 10-15 seasons.
 
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Anon1751539575

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IDK-it all depends on if the McDowell community would have bought into his program the way the one at Watauga has. One thing is for sure, this man is one of if not the best HS football coach in the state of NC. IDK if Watauga will ever win a state championship, but for his sake, I hope they do.
 
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Legit question- Do you think if you put Coach Habich at McDowell the same year he started at Watauga that he would have as much success in Marion as he has at Watauga? McDowell and Watauga football have similar history except the past 10-15 seasons.
Immediately, no. Given time to implement his culture, yes. Certain coaches organically elevate and inspire with their demeanor.

I do think there are other factors that played in to a Watauga/McDowell comparison though. There was a county pay study done about 6 years ago, McDowell had the lowest average salary in NC. I feel like thats a solid contribution as to why more adults arent raising chuldren in Marion or little Switzerland or wherever.

Every single year, we discuss the same things about Watauga. Well they lost a lot of seniors. Well they lost a 4 year starting qb. But then the season starts and Watauga is blowing the doors off people and we dont attribute that to coaching? All im saying is a coach's culture can make or break a program. So yea, I feel like Habich could have success with McDowell.
 

The Patriot

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This is gotten a little off into discussion of the football programs, which is understandable since that's what most people follow, but my intent was to talk about the athletic programs of these schools overall. In addition to fall sports, I know both Hickory and Watauga have done well in basketball recently as well, with Hickory making a regional finals in boys and Watauga doing the same in girls. I don't know how well they do in spring sports and I don't remember any championships, though I suspect Hickory does well in boys' tennis.

I haven't been able to see if Hickory advanced to the state finals in the girls' tennis duals, but I suspect their regional finals match may have been postponed due to rain. Good luck to both the Lady Pioneers and Lady Red Tornadoes in their volleyball championship games.

Now, I want to touch on some of the things people have said about how these athletic programs have succeeded and what I think may, or may not, be important. I think growth is probably important. I can look on Wikipedia for Watauga County and see that they've grown from almost 43k in 2000 to 54k today, almost 25 percent. It may be that a lot of that growth is from retirees, but even when the elderly population grows it will attract younger people. Someone will have to provide services for those old people after all, and those younger people will have families. I think more students at App State has a similar effect because that means more restaurants, stores and other businesses that cater to them. Bear in mind that the state spent a lot of money to get 321 and 421 in better shape to make Boone more accessible. I spent many days driving up there when 321 was two lanes on that mountain and it's a lot easier today. I can contrast the growth of Watauga County with my own home county and Burke County comes off in much worse shape. We grew steadily up until 2000, which was a big part of the impetus to build new schools, but that growth has stagnated over the last 20 years (I think it might be picking back up). I can't speak to how much growth has impacted Hickory though. I'm really not sure what's going on with sports in Asheville, but it does seem to be on the downswing.

Culture is important, but when have you ever heard a coach say it isn't? Every coach wants to establish the right culture (hard work, teamwork, fellowship, etc) for their program. It's incredibly important in your team's success, but not all coaches are able to do this. So, how they go about this and what the community does that foster that culture are probably the most important variables. Pay for coaches matters as well, but there's only so much we here in NC can do in that regard. Over the last few years there were articles published in one of the SC papers and in the Charlotte Observer about coaching pay. There were about 20-25 head football coaches in SC who make over $100k/yr, but only a handful in NC (and some of those did additional duties to get to that threshold). Yet not every good coach from NC is running off to try to get that SC money (I will note that two former Freedom football coaches now coach out of state for higher pay).

So, I think there's a lot that happens in a community which leads to success at the high school level. It helps if kids who play sports at a lower level can go and watch the HS kids succeed, that's something they'll want to emulate. But you need good youth programs that can teach those kids fundamentals as well. Of course, you need parents who will support their kids in sports and sacrifice to make sure they get to go to camps or can go play on weekends. I think this is why you see some communities that are passionate about their high school teams-because they recognize how much they've helped contribute towards that team's success.

Anyway-TLDR, there are a lot of factors that go towards athletic success at the HS level. I appreciate those who have some insight into the success of these programs giving the rest of us some insight
 

Panther97

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Re Watauga, the population increase is definitely a big factor as well as the emergence of ASU from an athletic standpoint.

Hickory has grown quite a bit as well, there is more local training available, Rec sports are a bit part of the community and the coaches are really bought in to making HHS sports into a culture. Oh and kids being able to transfer in also helps. (I won't argue it, it is a fact.)
 

kyleheel30

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Re Watauga, the population increase is definitely a big factor as well as the emergence of ASU from an athletic standpoint.

Hickory has grown quite a bit as well, there is more local training available, Rec sports are a bit part of the community and the coaches are really bought in to making HHS sports into a culture. Oh and kids being able to transfer in also helps. (I won't argue it, it is a fact.)
The rec sports growth in Watauga, with help from App State funding (directly or indirectly), definitely has an impact. Access to better training facilities, trainers, fitness and nutrition, etc.
Immediately, no. Given time to implement his culture, yes. Certain coaches organically elevate and inspire with their demeanor.

I do think there are other factors that played in to a Watauga/McDowell comparison though. There was a county pay study done about 6 years ago, McDowell had the lowest average salary in NC. I feel like thats a solid contribution as to why more adults arent raising chuldren in Marion or little Switzerland or wherever.

Every single year, we discuss the same things about Watauga. Well they lost a lot of seniors. Well they lost a 4 year starting qb. But then the season starts and Watauga is blowing the doors off people and we dont attribute that to coaching? All im saying is a coach's culture can make or break a program. So yea, I feel like Habich could have success with McDowell.
You kind of answered my question for me. Watauga County has built-in advantages over other mountain counties due to better county teacher pay from having the university there (and tourism).
 
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This is gotten a little off into discussion of the football programs, which is understandable since that's what most people follow, but my intent was to talk about the athletic programs of these schools overall. In addition to fall sports, I know both Hickory and Watauga have done well in basketball recently as well, with Hickory making a regional finals in boys and Watauga doing the same in girls. I don't know how well they do in spring sports and I don't remember any championships, though I suspect Hickory does well in boys' tennis.

I haven't been able to see if Hickory advanced to the state finals in the girls' tennis duals, but I suspect their regional finals match may have been postponed due to rain. Good luck to both the Lady Pioneers and Lady Red Tornadoes in their volleyball championship games.

Now, I want to touch on some of the things people have said about how these athletic programs have succeeded and what I think may, or may not, be important. I think growth is probably important. I can look on Wikipedia for Watauga County and see that they've grown from almost 43k in 2000 to 54k today, almost 25 percent. It may be that a lot of that growth is from retirees, but even when the elderly population grows it will attract younger people. Someone will have to provide services for those old people after all, and those younger people will have families. I think more students at App State has a similar effect because that means more restaurants, stores and other businesses that cater to them. Bear in mind that the state spent a lot of money to get 321 and 421 in better shape to make Boone more accessible. I spent many days driving up there when 321 was two lanes on that mountain and it's a lot easier today. I can contrast the growth of Watauga County with my own home county and Burke County comes off in much worse shape. We grew steadily up until 2000, which was a big part of the impetus to build new schools, but that growth has stagnated over the last 20 years (I think it might be picking back up). I can't speak to how much growth has impacted Hickory though. I'm really not sure what's going on with sports in Asheville, but it does seem to be on the downswing.

Culture is important, but when have you ever heard a coach say it isn't? Every coach wants to establish the right culture (hard work, teamwork, fellowship, etc) for their program. It's incredibly important in your team's success, but not all coaches are able to do this. So, how they go about this and what the community does that foster that culture are probably the most important variables. Pay for coaches matters as well, but there's only so much we here in NC can do in that regard. Over the last few years there were articles published in one of the SC papers and in the Charlotte Observer about coaching pay. There were about 20-25 head football coaches in SC who make over $100k/yr, but only a handful in NC (and some of those did additional duties to get to that threshold). Yet not every good coach from NC is running off to try to get that SC money (I will note that two former Freedom football coaches now coach out of state for higher pay).

So, I think there's a lot that happens in a community which leads to success at the high school level. It helps if kids who play sports at a lower level can go and watch the HS kids succeed, that's something they'll want to emulate. But you need good youth programs that can teach those kids fundamentals as well. Of course, you need parents who will support their kids in sports and sacrifice to make sure they get to go to camps or can go play on weekends. I think this is why you see some communities that are passionate about their high school teams-because they recognize how much they've helped contribute towards that team's success.

Anyway-TLDR, there are a lot of factors that go towards athletic success at the HS level. I appreciate those who have some insight into the success of these programs giving the rest of us some insight


How many posters do you think are going to read all of this?
 

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F


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CHEERDUCK

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This is gotten a little off into discussion of the football programs, which is understandable since that's what most people follow, but my intent was to talk about the athletic programs of these schools overall. In addition to fall sports, I know both Hickory and Watauga have done well in basketball recently as well, with Hickory making a regional finals in boys and Watauga doing the same in girls. I don't know how well they do in spring sports and I don't remember any championships, though I suspect Hickory does well in boys' tennis.

I haven't been able to see if Hickory advanced to the state finals in the girls' tennis duals, but I suspect their regional finals match may have been postponed due to rain. Good luck to both the Lady Pioneers and Lady Red Tornadoes in their volleyball championship games.

Now, I want to touch on some of the things people have said about how these athletic programs have succeeded and what I think may, or may not, be important. I think growth is probably important. I can look on Wikipedia for Watauga County and see that they've grown from almost 43k in 2000 to 54k today, almost 25 percent. It may be that a lot of that growth is from retirees, but even when the elderly population grows it will attract younger people. Someone will have to provide services for those old people after all, and those younger people will have families. I think more students at App State has a similar effect because that means more restaurants, stores and other businesses that cater to them. Bear in mind that the state spent a lot of money to get 321 and 421 in better shape to make Boone more accessible. I spent many days driving up there when 321 was two lanes on that mountain and it's a lot easier today. I can contrast the growth of Watauga County with my own home county and Burke County comes off in much worse shape. We grew steadily up until 2000, which was a big part of the impetus to build new schools, but that growth has stagnated over the last 20 years (I think it might be picking back up). I can't speak to how much growth has impacted Hickory though. I'm really not sure what's going on with sports in Asheville, but it does seem to be on the downswing.

Culture is important, but when have you ever heard a coach say it isn't? Every coach wants to establish the right culture (hard work, teamwork, fellowship, etc) for their program. It's incredibly important in your team's success, but not all coaches are able to do this. So, how they go about this and what the community does that foster that culture are probably the most important variables. Pay for coaches matters as well, but there's only so much we here in NC can do in that regard. Over the last few years there were articles published in one of the SC papers and in the Charlotte Observer about coaching pay. There were about 20-25 head football coaches in SC who make over $100k/yr, but only a handful in NC (and some of those did additional duties to get to that threshold). Yet not every good coach from NC is running off to try to get that SC money (I will note that two former Freedom football coaches now coach out of state for higher pay).

So, I think there's a lot that happens in a community which leads to success at the high school level. It helps if kids who play sports at a lower level can go and watch the HS kids succeed, that's something they'll want to emulate. But you need good youth programs that can teach those kids fundamentals as well. Of course, you need parents who will support their kids in sports and sacrifice to make sure they get to go to camps or can go play on weekends. I think this is why you see some communities that are passionate about their high school teams-because they recognize how much they've helped contribute towards that team's success.

Anyway-TLDR, there are a lot of factors that go towards athletic success at the HS level. I appreciate those who have some insight into the success of these programs giving the rest of us some insight
I will comment on Hickory only. In the last 5 years our administration, Booster Club and Coaching staffs are on the same page. With our football team, Coach Glass has been able to establish his system and discipline without the parents ruling the roost. Discipline is important and needed within our youth. Our other sports' programs are managed by capable coaches as well and I'll put up our hard working A.D., David Craft, up against yours any day. When you do things the right way, folks remember that for a while. Screw it up and they can tell you the exact day and time you did that as wel.
 

CHEERDUCK

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I’ll come back to this thread tomorrow, but both Hickory and Watauga volleyball teams won tonight and advanced to the state championships. Watauga tennis lost to Catholic and I couldn’t find the results for Hickory and E. Lincoln tennis.
Hickory’s volleyball title match conflicts with their football game Friday night.
Hickory at East Lincoln tennis is rescheduled for THursday at 4:00 PM.
 
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I will comment on Hickory only. In the last 5 years our administration, Booster Club and Coaching staffs are on the same page. With our football team, Coach Glass has been able to establish his system and discipline without the parents ruling the roost. Discipline is important and needed within our youth. Our other sports' programs are managed by capable coaches as well and I'll put up our hard working A.D., David Craft, up against yours any day. When you do things the right way, folks remember that for a while. Screw it up and they can tell you the exact day and time you did that as wel.
Great point on parental involvement in decision making. We have a program here in TN that was that was for years and wondered why the winless seasons kept stacking up.