They were most likely leaving the school they were at. It’s a crappy move but it’s better that good players stay in the league.
if we could’ve poached zuby we would have. Unfortunately we got Wusu instead of zuby lol
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if we could’ve poached zuby we would have. Unfortunately we got Wusu instead of zuby lol
It’s a bit of a stretch this year. We needed a few quality wins this year to make the NCAA.
This year ended better than expected but the reality was they went 0-6 vs the teams above, and 10-4 below, and some were late heroic come from behind games where they got breaks
I’m getting frustrated and have said if we lose Hines we have to reconsider where we can compete…but I’m not hardly a typical “drop down a level” poster, but you would this be disheartening.
I’m just facing a reality where if we can’t afford a player who is FAR from his ultimate potential, how are we ever going to compete?
We either have to catch lightning in a bottle, and become the “bad news bears” of college basketball…which is not realistic to me at all, or we are doomed to the kind of seasons the bad news bears would normally experience.
Let’s face it, it’s incredibly disappointing or more, to think that every time we finally develop a player to the cusp of being a good too great player, that we will lose them the next season.
That to me screams of, we need to move to a level where we can compete because we have basically stated that we will not compete at this level.
Do I want this? As a season ticket holder for almost every one of the 45+ years since I enrolled at the Hall…as a charter member of the Booster Club…I absolutely do not.
I’m just stating what I see…and what it might result in.
it was actually crazier than that 1-9 vs the top 5 other than us. 9-1 vs the bottom 5 and as you said we needed heroics.
Somebody is going to figure out how to win with a lower payroll. Why not us?
while I may not love the style we play. Let’s identify programs that play like us at the mid major level and take their talent and maybe when guys show up in the fall they got 75% of our defense down already so we can try to work on offense
I’ll give one more take on Hines; if you are Seton Hall you desperately need to change the narrative, you keep him at all costs; you over spend this year, hoping that in a year or two rules will come into play to help control the spend (transfer rules etc), because if rules don’t fine into play?… we’re probably dead at this level anyway so why not take one or two last shots at it?
It’s not just winning. It’s not being able to retain a good player for more than a year.
To me, the 2 Creighton games cancel each other out in terms of heroics.
Sweeping UConn this year was a possibility.
Winning at St John's was a possibility.
I get that you are what your record says you are, but the suggestion that Seton Hall cannot compete at the Power level, is reactionary.
Every season has its up and downs.
We swept Marquette, Georgetown and Providence this year.
UCONN did not sweep Marquette
St John's did not sweep Providence.
Nova did not sweep Georgetown
If we repeated our 7 win season, then the panic button is rightfully pushed. We did not. Far from it.
Correct we did not. That’s all true. But ask yourself how the sauce was made. We also scheduled one of the worst non conference schedules and the conference was bad. I worry about where our record sits if we schedule tougher and 4 big east teams don’t have down years. I believe if you establish a high level of play you’ll make the tournament. Being down 12 or more just about every game isn’t a high level of play.
No one was predicting how bad Kansas State turned out when scheduled. The school fired it's coach mid season.
Same for the performance of Musselman's USC team.
I agree we needed another few mid major or Power conference teams.
But the question is whether Seton Hall is required to drop down. I don’t see it.
Drop down no. But we need a creative moneyball type of strategy. If DePaul didn’t drop down after the last 20 years why should we? Heck even if the next 3 years are single digit win seasons we shouldn’t go anywhere. And who is the big east replacing us with? The talk is just dumb. It’s a lose lose for everyone.
I agree
If we are going to be a feeder program, create a relationship or two with a MAAC school etc to be our feeder program. Almost joint recruit. Go to Grant for a year or two and then develop amd elevate. We have to be creative. Do it with a JUCO or NAIA school. Those types of relationships have been informally created for many years. Launch a joint venture so to speak. Build a long term development relationship with the recruit.
They don't need to drop down, they need to invest into a GM/scouting department. I couldn't disagree more with people who say SHU doesn't need a GM. You can argue the top 10-20 programs have less of a need because the top talent is clearly identifiable. With Seton Hall's budget they need to take chances on talent by necessity. So spend $500k-1M, hire a GM and 2 solid scouts and start looking globally. And actually market / advertise your FO to give them proper exposure and boost their resume.
I look at a guy like Sean McVay - he's not scared of losing coaching talent, he actively trains and helps his guys become HC's.
That's what I would do at Seton Hall. Become known for having a savvy personnel dep't who consistently feeds Shaheen gems that he develops. Continue looking to fund more NIL and be ready to drop big money on 1-2 difference makers.
Calipari had an interesting quote on The Athletic today. He said, I’m paraphrasing here, “administrations win championships, coaches win games.” He went on to explain the institution must commit the resources first, then it’s up to the coach to use those resources wisely.
i was encouraged this season that Holloway can use the resources he receives wisely. The issue becomes clearer everyday. Can/will SHU commit the resources necessary to field a top four/five BE team that will be in the hunt annually for a NCAAT bid. IMO how the Hines situation shakes out will be telling.
interesting that SHU was mentioned in the article. SHU athletic expenses BEFORE player compensation was $9.8 million this past season. Of the S16 teams, only Iowa’s expenses were in that range and they are filling the role of this year’s Cinderella. All the others were higher obviously, topped by Duke’s $40+ million before player compensation.
Another interesting tidbit, Pitino has the lowest coaches salary of any of the S16 coaches at just under $2.5 million. Certainly he has other perks as all these coaches do. By comparison, Cal, Danny, Scheyer are in the $7million range.
i was encouraged this season that Holloway can use the resources he receives wisely. The issue becomes clearer everyday. Can/will SHU commit the resources necessary to field a top four/five BE team that will be in the hunt annually for a NCAAT bid. IMO how the Hines situation shakes out will be telling.
interesting that SHU was mentioned in the article. SHU athletic expenses BEFORE player compensation was $9.8 million this past season. Of the S16 teams, only Iowa’s expenses were in that range and they are filling the role of this year’s Cinderella. All the others were higher obviously, topped by Duke’s $40+ million before player compensation.
Another interesting tidbit, Pitino has the lowest coaches salary of any of the S16 coaches at just under $2.5 million. Certainly he has other perks as all these coaches do. By comparison, Cal, Danny, Scheyer are in the $7million range.
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It is, for sure, but the landscape and the conversations around it continue to evolve. The clay pot hasn't been baked in the kiln yet. If there comes to be some some form of collective bargaining, paired with some reasonable restrictions on the transfer policy, there is still hope we can compete and succeed on this level. But at the current trajectory? No.
Stepping down is a terrible option. It would not be one step down, it would be two steps down to the MAAC.
I'd still be a Seton Hall fan but that would be devastating for the university.
I'd still be a Seton Hall fan but that would be devastating for the university.
I think a GM is up to the coach. You got 2 types of coaches in the game, the guys who say go get me the players and I'll coach them and the guys who say I know what I need to compete and I'm going to live and die with the group I put together not someone else. The coach should be extended or fired based on that. It's your program coach, we have the funds for a GM take it or leave it. You'll have find guys who succeed and others who fail with a GM and you'll find guys who succeed and others who fail without a GM. I think saying there's one right way to put together a team is wrong.
Guys, the school is boosting their NIL with funds that they do not have and are being taken from other needed areas. We don't have the money for any more hires.
Yes. Not that the role has to go to a Seton Hall guy. I can't figure out why everyone needs a Seton Hall guy to be in every role, but I'd take Mike Nzei or Ike before Whitehead. I'd hope the GM has some form of a financial background.
I think this is a unique case. Hines probably has the most potential of any player who's ever played at Seton Hall besides Eddie Griffin. I enjoyed watching him play but it was fairly obvious from the beginning that he'd only be here for 1 year.
I don't disagree, but I'm imagining the pay cut Nzei would need to take to be our GM!
Funniest thing I’ve seen in awhile.
Not funnier than Isaiah Coleman coming back to SHU!
We can 1000% compete. Because of the portal, there are so many options to get players, including undervalued assets or kids who yet to fully develop for whatever reason. To me, there is a wide gap between that and saying we were a "few minutes" away from making the dance with our 10 league losses and weak OOC. But no question being able to turnover a roster each year allows you to compete annually.
Agree 10000000%. But Whitehead as GM, he couldn't come up with a better choice out of 330 million citizens in this country?
Agree. We don’t have deficit spending of tens of millions of dollars every year like RU. That’s why IMO opinion SHU should go all in on Hines this year rather than frittering away money annually on admin positions that we can’t afford.
I understand
We beat Creighton, St John's once and UConn once we are dancing.
We were not good enough.
A GM is pointless. Taking money from other areas in need to pay basketball players for 9 months of service is egregious.
A big no. What would he do? Go to high schools in NYC and say hey remember me? I played in Brooklyn?
Oh snap. It's on X. It has to be a great idea now. Nobody ever posted stupid stuff there.
I'm not sure it is pointless. A number of top programs have one, and I don't think those places are in the business of wasting money wholesale. If you get the right person, I am sure it is a useful tool that takes things off a staff's plate, helps you cast a wider net for this FA madness, and helps deal with all the agent-sleaze that's out there. I view a modern day GM as more akin to the "ace recruiter" of the past that was on a staff solely for that specific reason, not bringing much basketball-wise to the picture.
I'm not sure I would sign off on a GM. Sha clearly has a type. I'd hire a young coach breaking into the business and have him watch games, putting together a highlight reel for players that fit Sha's profile type. Sort of how I outsourced my Tinder. Anyway, Sha works from that list to pursue players that interest him.
Imagine what we could be running an athletic department on 1/10 the resources we currently have.
At least all the Holloway bashers would get their wish unless he was willing to take a 70% haircut.
What is 70% of bald?